Phonecalls From An Airplane...

[LaoPo]

Today I flew a domestic flight within China.

As I did many times before -in the Far East, and also Thailand- I witnessed many people, phoning before the plane even left the platform...

Once it landed almost everybody around me switched on their mobiles (cellphones) and started making calls BEFORE the plane came to a standstill....

There was one guy who was really shouting thru his phone, telling the other one, that he owed him a substantial amount of money; everybody could hear him shouting....

This is so unbelievable unpolite and without class I simply fail to accept that this is common.

I was amongst one of the first few hundreds of people in my country with a mobile phone and almost everyone told me (back then) I was 'low-class' and that nobody would need one....

When I was in Hong Kong in the late '80's I saw for the first time the enormous impact of the mobile/cell phone. In virtually every restaurant and/or in the streets people were already talking thru a mobile, even during consuming their meals.

But, I -almost- never saw it happen in the US or Europe, people switching on their mobiles or talking IN an airplane...

.......well, at least I never do/did it.

What's your experience?

LaoPo

[Jamie]

I see this all the time on domestic flights in the US. As soon as the plane has touched down and it is heading to the gate all you can hear are cell phones being turned on....people calling or checking their voice mail. I don't have a cell phone so I feel a bit left out

I think it is just a part of being "connected" People would be so lost without technology. I'm the same way though with my laptop. If I am in the airport, or hotel or whatever, I need to be connected to check e-mails...even if I am not expecting anything.

[tropo]

I was amongst one of the first few hundreds of people in my country with a mobile phone and almost everyone told me (back then) I was 'low-class' and that nobody would need one....

When I was in Hong Kong in the late '80's I saw for the first time the enormous impact of the mobile/cell phone. In virtually every restaurant and/or in the streets people were already talking thru a mobile, even during consuming their meals.

Which country was that? You must have paid a fortune.

I remember my first cell phone cost me Aus$2400 bucks in 1991. It was a small NEC. Do they still even make cell phones?

I remember the brick size cell phones in the mid-80's used to run at around Aus$6000.

[Phil Conners]

My first "mobile" phone:

In Europe, ca. 1990 the price for this was about the same as a top-end mobile phone today, i.e. around the equivalent of 40,000 baht. Call quality was terrible and call costs sky high.

Edited June 22, 2007 by Phil Conners

[LaoPo]

My first "mobile" phone:

In Europe, ca. 1990 the price for this was about the same as a top-end mobile phone today, i.e. around the equivalent of 40,000 baht. Call quality was terrible and call costs sky high.

I remember a carpenter working for us in Edmonton/Alberta, Canada who had one like yours. I think it was 1989 and nobody had cellphones back than (just a few people).

I bought my first normal mobile in, I think 1990/1991 or so and yes it was expensive.

In Europe even children of 5, 6 years old have one and take them to school, just in case their parents phone them, they're a bit late to pick them up...or phone them when they play with friends to come home for dinner...

LaoPo

[soundman]

My first "mobile" phone:

In Europe, ca. 1990 the price for this was about the same as a top-end mobile phone today, i.e. around the equivalent of 40,000 baht. Call quality was terrible and call costs sky high.

Got one of those sitting in the cupboard!

Give it another twenty years & it will be a collectors item.

Soundman.

[expatwannabe]

I used to fly a lot in the US and saw the same thing with the cellphones. It amused me. Everyone acting like they were so important that whoever they were calling absolutely needed to hear, "well .. I've landed .. uh huh .. ok, see you there."

[farangsay]

This sort of thing has been going on for a LONG time and I fail to see why it warrants a thread on TV.

The only fun to be had with this sort of situation is when you get some clown in the arrival area telling his dearly beloved he is at the airport and he should be home in an hour or so is to have a girl go up to him and yell "OK SWEETTHEART YOU'RE CAB IS HERE , TIME TO PUT YOUR CLOTHES ON !"

[tropo]

In Europe even children of 5, 6 years old have one and take them to school, just in case their parents phone them, they're a bit late to pick them up...or phone them when they play with friends to come home for dinner...

This is not unique to Europe. Cellphones are so cheap that even school children in Thailand have them.

In Australia it would be unusual to find a kid without one.

[retirednavyman]

My first "mobile" phone:

In Europe, ca. 1990 the price for this was about the same as a top-end mobile phone today, i.e. around the equivalent of 40,000 baht. Call quality was terrible and call costs sky high.

Thanks for the history lesson

[Ping]

My first "mobile" phone:

In Europe, ca. 1990 the price for this was about the same as a top-end mobile phone today, i.e. around the equivalent of 40,000 baht. Call quality was terrible and call costs sky high.

Thanks for the history lesson

Not exactly fond memories - they weighed an absolute ton and only held charge for less than a day - you would plug them in overnight, every night and also keep them plugged in at the office. The batteries (the big bit beneath the handset) were even heavier than those brick-batteries you used to need for your shoulder-carry 'portable' video recorders (the ones with the separate video cameras). Thank goodness for the marvellous advances in battery technology...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

May it rest in peace

[cdnvic]

My first cell could also be used as a hammer.

[britmaveric]

No problem with turning the mobile on when we touch ground.... check email/vmail. Don't feel the necessity to have a convo - bit off having a convo with so many people around u. I just hope and pray it never becomes ok in flight. 17hrs of someone running their gob will end up in violence.

[soundman]

No problem with turning the mobile on when we touch ground.... check email/vmail. Don't feel the necessity to have a convo - bit off having a convo with so many people around u. I just hope and pray it never becomes ok in flight. 17hrs of someone running their gob will end up in violence.

Read recently that some international carrier or plane manufacturer has had their aeroplanes approved for in-flight mobile telephones...

Soundman.

Edited June 23, 2007 by soundman

[Jimjim]

To LaoPo, it goes on all the time in the U.S. on domestic flights.

Edited June 24, 2007 by Jimjim

[technocracy]

"Read recently that some international carrier or plane manufacturer has had their aeroplanes approved for in-flight mobile telephones..."

Erm well it wouldn't work! Which also adds to the confusion over the supposed mobile phone calls from the Flight 93.

Due to the altitude and speed of the aircraft the it would be impossible for the phone to maintain a signal. All mobile phone mast antennas are directional and the only signal that would go upwards are leaked from the main signal - due to it currently being impossible to make a 100% perfect directional antenna.

So unless they are going to install 30,000 foot masts I don't think there will be much of a market!!!

But back to the OP - it happens all the time in the UK - when I used to be back and forward between Lao and the UK people would be turning their phones on before we had even landed!! Ignorant f*ckers!! I used to commute regularly between UK and Europe on business and even then I could wait for 20 or so minutes to allow the plane to stop and pass through passport control before even considering turning my phone on. I considered it not only polite but also I didn't want anyone phoning me to talk about work for as long as possible!!!

[soundman]

"Read recently that some international carrier or plane manufacturer has had their aeroplanes approved for in-flight mobile telephones..."

Erm well it wouldn't work! Which also adds to the confusion over the supposed mobile phone calls from the Flight 93.

Due to the altitude and speed of the aircraft the it would be impossible for the phone to maintain a signal. All mobile phone mast antennas are directional and the only signal that would go upwards are leaked from the main signal - due to it currently being impossible to make a 100% perfect directional antenna.

So unless they are going to install 30,000 foot masts I don't think there will be much of a market!!!

Ever heard of a satellite broadband uplink? Or a UHF broadband direct link? Doesn't appear so. How do you think current technology allows you to make a phone call on an aeroplanes onboard phone system?

Soundman.

[Cuban]

So unless they are going to install 30,000 foot masts I don't think there will be much of a market!!!

The "cell" that your mobile telephone will connect to is not a ground based "mast" as you put it but a unit mounted within the plane. That unit establishes a link via satellite to the ground based Public Telephone Network. The telco provider and the airline will charge a fee for providing the service so call and text message costs will not be cheap.

As handsets become plane aware and switch to low power transmission modes any arguements about interferance will decline, I believe there some handsets that already have an in-flight mode.

Related link.

Personally - the noise of the countless ring tones and calls because so many people travelling these days are working or living in different time zones will be the cause of a new wave of air-rage. Ban them all.

[cdnvic]

Due to the altitude and speed of the aircraft the it would be impossible for the phone to maintain a signal. All mobile phone mast antennas are directional and the only signal that would go upwards are leaked from the main signal - due to it currently being impossible to make a 100% perfect directional antenna.

So unless they are going to install 30,000 foot masts I don't think there will be much of a market!!!

I love it when people use that rolleyes icon while showing off their own lack of knowledge. (You're on the internet for crying out loud, look it up before you post) Aside from the fact that omni-directional antennas have been around for ages, the sheer volume of antennas, directional and omni-directional, in populated regions and long line of sight from an aircraft make it easier in fact to maintain a connection, unless the aircraft flies into a remote area, like the ocean or over the arctic for instance. Cellular is just another radio signal, like radar, which manages to track aircraft at high altitudes despite being both directional, and mounted horizontally.

http://news.com.com/Cell+phones+to+take+fl..._3-5727009.html

http://www.isa.org/InTechTemplate.cfm?Sect...;ContentID=3309

Even for very high altitudes over areas with sporadic coverage, the simple solution is to put a repeater in the aircraft itself, just like many cell companies do in tunnels, on ferries, and inside arenas. This is now being trial in Australia.

The US FCC itself said that cell phones connecting to multiple towers on the ground may cause problems for the phone carriers. Most of it billing related. I believe that is no longer an issue.

Edited June 24, 2007 by cdnvic

[magic]

All must watch this clip:

Family Guy

some other great ones from a great show:

More

[PhilHarries]

I've seen projected costs quoted for using the new system in aircraft as $2.50 a minute. Should be ten times that IMO.

But it's not just the phones in Asia. In many occasions I've seen people standing up and opening the overhead lockers just after the plane gets off the runway. Then they all stand in the aisles waiting for the doors to open only to then have to hang around the baggage carousels.

[technocracy]

I love it when people use that rolleyes icon while showing off their own lack of knowledge. (You're on the internet for crying out loud, look it up before you post) Aside from the fact that omni-directional antennas have been around for ages, the sheer volume of antennas, directional and omni-directional, in populated regions and long line of sight from an aircraft make it easier in fact to maintain a connection, unless the aircraft flies into a remote area, like the ocean or over the arctic for instance. Cellular is just another radio signal, like radar, which manages to track aircraft at high altitudes despite being both directional, and mounted horizontally.

http://news.com.com/Cell+phones+to+take+fl..._3-5727009.html

http://www.isa.org/InTechTemplate.cfm?Sect...;ContentID=3309

Even for very high altitudes over areas with sporadic coverage, the simple solution is to put a repeater in the aircraft itself, just like many cell companies do in tunnels, on ferries, and inside arenas. This is now being trial in Australia.

The US FCC itself said that cell phones connecting to multiple towers on the ground may cause problems for the phone carriers. Most of it billing related. I believe that is no longer an issue.

"Aside from the fact that omni-directional antennas have been around for ages, the sheer volume of antennas, directional and omni-directional, in populated regions and long line of sight from an aircraft make it easier in fact to maintain a connection"

What the hel_l are you on about? Long line of sight??? What has LOS got to do with radiowaves (I must remember to make sure I can see the antenna next time I make a call!!!)? The fact that the signal wouldn't make it that high has got nothing do with it eh? Omni-directional antenna aren't generally used by telcos due to there inherent signal propogation problems when the gain of the antenna is increased (use that there internet and find it out also you might want to lookup an Isotropic radiator while your at it). They normally used sectorized grid array with numerous directions covering a wide spread - that's what the square/oblong boxes on the mast are these also make sure the signal is kept downwards (also have a lower EIRP). So in general babbling a load of <deleted> here.

"Cellular is just another radio signal, like radar, which manages to track aircraft at high altitudes despite being both directional, and mounted horizontally."

Radar uses a far great range of frequencies to provide it's functionality also it can use a far higher EIRP than GSM . . . but then again you must know this also ready with the miracle of the internet at hand!

The fact is that "picocell/nanocell" devices are relatively new that fact is on an aircraft the contact with the 'cell' network finishes there and it is then connected to the satellite uplink (Thanks Soundman but I am fully aware of what one is). So you'll be stung with high bills also . . . just like using you standard mobile eh!?

The original quote "Read recently that some international carrier or plane manufacturer has had their aeroplanes approved for in-flight mobile telephones..." Doesn't state he is talking about the new low small power base station or normal.

If you can't see the sarcasm (not everything but some) in the previous post you must be blind!

Thank you and good night

[autonomous_unit]

I am already questioning myself for replying, but hey, why let everyone else be the blowhard here?

Yes, I think the previous reference to a recent airline offering is a deployment of onboard pico cells.

The line of sight issue is not hogwash. Precisely because GSM towers blast out a strong signal to cut through buildings and foliage, they can be picked up over very long distances when there are no obstructions. I remember standing on top of a sand dune in Southern California and picking up a GSM signal from very far away through a notch in a mountain range. I even managed to place a call that rang through and passed a bit of audio in each direction, but it then fell apart before we could have a conversation. I'm not a radio network engineer, but I play one on tv... I think the long distance violated the tower-to-phone latency requirements for GSM and that is why my call fell apart.

In practice, airliners have a line of sight at a relatively shallow angle to many towers that would be over the horizon for land based phones. The problem is not the towers directly below. As such, using a phone on a plane without pico cells causes two problems: the phone tries to negotiate possible hand-offs with far too many "adjacent" towers at once, and the plane moves so quickly that the hand-offs also happen too quickly. During take-off and landing phases, e.g. the first and last hour of each flight, the altitudes and air speed tend to be lower, and I think many people have witnessed successful phone calls. I cannot imagine the GSM network was very happy with the disturbance, however.

[technocracy]

In terms of LOS and radio I have two terms for you . ... Fresnel Zone & Free Space Loss.

Your call over the long distance was probably effected by either of these 2 occurances.

Also you need to consider the curvature of the earth in long distance calculations for high frequency signals. Same goes for aircrafts . . . low frequencies however can be bounced off the earths atmosphere to make it around the globe.

Oh just too add before the internet searchers comment - yes I know LOS over short distances is a good thing and aren't affect by the fresnel zone however here we aren't talking short distances.

Edited June 26, 2007 by technocracy

[soundman]

In terms of LOS and radio I have two terms for you . ... Fresnel Zone & Free Space Loss.

AirAsia to offer Inflight Mobile Phone Use

AirAsia is set to be the first airline in Asia to deploy OnAir mobile communications services. The service, to be deployed across the entire AirAsia fleet, will enable passengers to use their mobile phones and BlackBerry-type devices to send and receive SMS text messages, emails, and to make and receive mobile phone calls in flight. The OnAir services will be introduced by AirAsia in early 2009.

AirAsia’s entire fleet of Airbus A320 aircraft will be fitted with the OnAir equipment, including aircraft currently flying and those on order from Airbus; a total of 150 aircraft will be equipped by 2013.

AirAsia’s new venture AirAsia X, a long-haul low-cost airline, has also signed a similar agreement for OnAir’s passenger communications services, to be installed on the airline’s newly ordered Airbus A330 aircraft.

Dato’ Kamarudin Meranun, Deputy Chief Executive Officer, AirAsia, said, “We have worked very hard to strengthen our network and enhanced connectivity in the ASEAN region, and we are now working equally hard to improve the services we offer our guests. We firmly believe that offering them the ability to communicate during flight is vital in this era of information technology.”

Benoit Debains, CEO of OnAir, said, “This deal validates the benefit of OnAir’s service to low-cost carriers, in providing both enhanced service and an ancillary revenue stream. It also demonstrates that we are gaining a foothold in the Asian market, currently the most dynamic and exciting region for aviation. We are particularly pleased to be working with AirAsia, which is taking such a leading role in this region.”

--AsiaTravelTips.com 2007-06-25

That's the article...

Lets do a little test... What's a TACAN?

Soundman.

[Phil Conners]

A TACAN is a beacon used for flight navigation.

[soundman]

A TACAN is a beacon used for flight navigation.

Been in the aeronautical services have we Phil? Since you know what is I won't ask you it's precise function... Leave that for some other members...

Cheers man,

Soundman.

[jingjoe]

My first cell phone

I'm sure the Chinese will soon learn (as did we all eventually) that there is nothing cool about making a tool of yourself by big-noting your crack.

[tropo]

My first cell phone

Isn't that really a "portable" phone rather than a handheld cellphone.

What vintage was that?