รัานนายอินทร์ Raan Niian (name Of A Book Store)

[thailanguagestudent]

I have a thai book and on the cover it has รัานนายอินทร์ and I recognized the รัาน/raan to mean store, as in the store where the book came from. However, the rest is written as นายอินทร์ and I would translate it as naay-i-noht (sounds like english noy-i-not). I feel that it should be translated as "niian" though because coincidentally, that is the name of the website listed write below it on the cover of the book. It says www.niian.com write below รัานนายอินทร์

My question is this, when it comes to names of companies, is it normal for the transliteration to be off from what it appears it should be. What has me stumped is the fact it has a ท/ทอ ทหาร at the end and yet it is not written in the name of the company. Another words, the name of the company is not written as niiant, but just niian.

Any wisdom you can share on this is greatly appreciated.

[withnail]

The short answer is that the final two consonants are silent. The 'garan' symbol over the final ร emphasises this, although you don't always see one. What does make it more obvious though is that these two consonants are often silent at the end of a word, as in วันจันทร์ wan jan (Monday).

I would still consider the transliteration to be off from the pronunciation, which unless I'm mistaken is Naay In (Mr In ?). You are right though this is common when Thais transliterate names. Think of the reason why Thai people transliterate, in this case is it so that foreigners can read the company name or because websites must be written in English?

I'm sure one of our more educated linguists can give you a more detailed answer but this is basically it.

Edited June 21, 2007 by withnail

[Richard W]

However, the rest is written as นายอินทร์ and I would translate it as naay-i-noht (sounds like english noy-i-not). I feel that it should be translated as "niian" though because coincidentally, that is the name of the website listed write below it on the cover of the book. It says www.niian.com write below รัานนายอินทร์

Are you sure you have the right spelling? Www.niian.com is a Korean site. There, is however, a Thai book site www.naiin.com.

I would still consider the transliteration to be off from the pronunciation, which unless I'm mistaken is Naay In (Mr In ?).

You're spot on - and of course the RTGS transcription is Nai In.

Richard.

[withnail]

Are you sure you have the right spelling? Www.niian.com is a Korean site. There, is however, a Thai book site www.naiin.com.

Richard.

That makes sense, I didn't check the site.

[thailanguagestudent]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I did type the name of company wrong. It is written as naiin and not niian. The example of how to spell Monday with the silent ท explains it though. I just wanted to make sure I was reading it correctly.

Could someone type out the correct pronunciation. Should it sound like "noy" as in "boy" + "in" as in "win". So it would sound like "noy" + "in" to equal "noy-in". My focus is on the general pronunciation, not the tone at this time. The problem with certain names is that the internet site I use will not pronounce words that are not in the dictionary.

[withnail]

It's Naay in or Nai in depending on how you want to transliterate it. Like nine without the n.

There's not much to worry about in terms of tone as both words are pronounced with a mid tone. The words have long and short vowels respectively.

[meadish_sweetball]

It's not 'noy' as in 'boy'... that corresponds to อ when it is used as a vowel.

The vowel sound in นาย is a long open 'ah' as in Spanish manana if that helps. Depending on what your English pronunciation is, 'nigh' with a prolonged vowel sound in the middle could be close.

As for getting mid tones right, try to sound like a drone, motionless robotic voice, i.e. use exactly the same, flat pitch on both words.

[thailanguagestudent]

After doing further research, it turns out that Naiin is actually a much bigger book store than I thought. I mentioned the name to a thai friend and they said they were familiar with the store.

I did find a Wikipedia entry for Naiin and it turns out that it has 2 syllables. It is pronounce Nai-in. I am still confused about how to pronounce Nai? Do I pronounce it just like I would say naay or mister in thai language? Kind of sounds like noi as in nit noi or little bit?

Then I pronounce the อิน just like it is written, as "in" like I put the book "in" the bag, correct or incorrect?

At this time I am pronouncing Naiin as "noi" + "in". If you listened to me say it, you would think I just said "Mister In".

I wonder if the guy (or founder or similar) who owns that store happens to be a Mr. In, now that would make total sense.

Edited June 23, 2007 by thailanguagestudent

[withnail]

Read what I said above. It is Mr In, at least it's certainly pronounced that way.

[meadish_sweetball]

Do I pronounce it just like I would say naay or mister in thai language?

Yep.

Kind of sounds like noi as in nit noi or little bit?

'Kind of', yes, but that is not good enough. They (อา and ออ) are distinct vowel phonemes in Thai, not just variations of what is interpreted as the same sound.

So for that reason you must learn to hear and pronounce them differently from each other, otherwise you will find it difficult to make yourself understood when speaking complex sentences.

To produce the sound in 'naay' นาย (mister) you need to open your mouth more compared to the vowel sound in 'nawy' น้อย (small). Listen to a Thai say them, and then repeat and ask for feedback. Remember the main difference is in openness mouth, just don't take it too far as you'll end up with แอ instead.

To get the vowel contrasts right, ask a Thai to help you pronounce these syllables:

แม (mae) มา (maa) มอ (maw) โม (moh) and make sure you pay attention to how the vowels differ from each other - do NOT pay attention to the transcription so much, as you want the Thai sound to be correct, and not be confused by the way you will want to pronounce the Roman letters.

[Richard W]

I did find a Wikipedia entry for Naiin and it turns out that it has 2 syllables. It is pronounce Nai-in. I am still confused about how to pronounce Nai? Do I pronounce it just like I would say naay or mister in thai language?

Yes.

Kind of sounds like noi as in nit noi or little bit?

No. Listen to the clips for นิดหน่อย

Then I pronounce the อิน just like it is written, as "in" like I put the book "in" the bag, correct or incorrect?

To the usual farang standard, yes. Listen to the clip for อินทร์. It illustrates part of the general rule that the duration of vowel plus resonant is independent of vowel length. If the vowel is short, the resonant is long, and vice versa. This principle also applies to the difference between [M]naai นาย and [M]nai ใน.

At this time I am pronouncing Naiin as "noi" + "in". If you listened to me say it, you would think I just said "Mister In".

One of those two statements is wrong.