Building Help - Chiang Mai

[Ajarn]

A Thai acquaintance of mine who owns a building company flat out told me:

      If you order a house for 5 million baht, you'll get a house worth  3 million baht. If you  order a house for 1 million baht, you'll get a house  worth a half million.  Thai builders cut corners everywhere. If you want to them buy the grade of iron that has been specified in the plans for the house, you actually have to go with them  when they buy it, or supply it  yourself.

And this guy's company's done a lot of the work on the canal up towards the university,  out Hang Dong way. Frightening, really.  But when  we had our office redone, the guys were brilliant. They worked and did good work. Absolutely no complaints.    Maybe that's because we knew them all personally. 

Here's a question for those of you who have  had personal experiences with bad Thai  building: Did you or anyone else tell the guys to get off  their asses and work? I know people who have dragged out a job because they were being paid by the hour and wanted their salary to go on for as long as possible, but I'd think a builder wouldn't want to have to pay all those guys and girls to stand around with their thumbs up their bums. 

No  rhyme or reason to some of these Thai ways.  Me, I have more complaints about Thai kindergartens than Thai  building, but don't suppose there's a forum in Chiang Mai for that, or enough women to contribute.

I've had a number of projects done around my house, ranging in time from one day, to one month. Labour issues have always been my number one headache, followed closely by cost control...

Figuring 150 baht a day for labour will basically guarantee problems, in my experience. For that price, your labour is likely to be very old/young and/or Burmese, Lazy...or all the above .

When I had my pool done, I figured a wage of 300 baht a day per man, and I had them sign a contract guaranteeing comlpetion by a certain date. Failure to finish by that day meant a fine equalling twice the cost of labour per day until completion. That solved the 'laziness' problem, and kept me on schedule. This is also a standard clause in most Thai construction projects I've heard of.

Of course, you must be on top of everything yourself, or you're just sending them the message to do things however THEY choose. It helps to be a good people manager, for sure. They need clear and precise instructions and follow-up from you. If you let anything slide, it's the same as your stamp of approval.

Some trades, like tiling, usually work on a square footage basis. In my case, I agreed to 100 baht per square meter for tilers. It really is a lot of work to prepare for tiling, and a skilled tilier is worth their weight in gold. A bad tiling job on a pool can have huge consequences down the road a bit...

I tried to purchase as much of the needed materials myself, but sometimes I couldn't. If I could, I tried calling the shop for a phone quote, but this doesn't always work, since once there, they often will give a 15-20% reduction on retail prices for building materials if you pay cash. If you insist on a receipt with a tax stamp, you might be charged extra for VAT, or you might lose the cash discount...

You must also be diplomatic with workers. Face is always an issue, and it's easy for an annoyed worker to get back at you through the 'hidden part' of their workmanship, like using too much sand in the cement mix, which looks fine, but weekens the cement a lot...Leaving some air behind the tiles won't show either, until it falls off later...

Knowing your workers personaly of course makes a difference. I have a guy I know who has been my handyman for a few years. But, with crews of workers, this familiarity won't be there, at least in the beginning. I always make the effort to talk and joke with the workers, and I make sure they always have cold water at hand. It shows them that I'm interested in their welfare, and from our chats over a couple of days, they know I will be paying attention to details.

[KevinN]

well if they don't like what is going on and refuse to do good quality work and do it the way you want,all you have to do is insist and they will pack up and let you do it yourself.

At least that is what I have found,and suits me fine.

[Ajarn]

well if they don't like what is going on and refuse to do good quality work and do it the way you want,all you have to do is insist and they will pack up and let you do it yourself.

At least that is what I have found,and suits me fine.

Yep, in a nutshell. Whatever works for us. My main goal is peace of mind, too

[siamesedream]

Shaun,

Do you do free estimates for a simple house design? (sorry, haven't visit your site yet)

[EDAB]

Siamesedream,

Our estimates are free call me 050405401 for more details

[cutethaigirl]

Free estimates can also be obtained from just about every member of the Chiangmai Forum

[royar2002]

I think that it is time that some farang came here and started a business and would teach the Thai how to do things,,an American brick layer will lay 40+ block per hour and each block is finish when the throws the next one,the wall can be left as is, painted or stucco'd ,,A thai will throw 50 blocks a day and they will be at odd angles,partly filled to over filled and the wall will have to have 2 inches of stucco to make it look OK.If it don't fall before the stucco is on.

And pobly the reason he said he  builds for farang is because they will pay for good workmanship and a thai don't know good workmanship from a chicken fight.

Yea, farangs are so wonderful, i should kiss the ground they walk on.

I apologize for all Thai people in Thailand and say that we are very sorry that we do not come up to your high standards, once again, i am sorry.

Yea farangs are so wonderful and you should kiss the ground thanks to what farangs done for Thailand.

And you are not a ThaiTeenGirl, because a TGT will never be interested in houseconstruction or workmanship. If you are a TGT yor interesting is money.

If you are Thai, you will never apologize. Thais just don't know what apologize or sorry is. Your post in forum with your good english skills don't come from a thai. You smell like a farang Kateoy TROLL.

[ThaiPauly]

I think that it is time that some farang came here and started a business and would teach the Thai how to do things,,an American brick layer will lay 40+ block per hour and each block is finish when the throws the next one,the wall can be left as is, painted or stucco'd ,,A thai will throw 50 blocks a day and they will be at odd angles,partly filled to over filled and the wall will have to have 2 inches of stucco to make it look OK.If it don't fall before the stucco is on.

And pobly the reason he said he  builds for farang is because they will pay for good workmanship and a thai don't know good workmanship from a chicken fight.

Yea, farangs are so wonderful, i should kiss the ground they walk on.

I apologize for all Thai people in Thailand and say that we are very sorry that we do not come up to your high standards, once again, i am sorry.

Yea farangs are so wonderful and you should kiss the ground thanks to what farangs done for Thailand.

And you are not a ThaiTeenGirl, because a TGT will never be interested in houseconstruction or workmanship. If you are a TGT yor interesting is money.

If you are Thai, you will never apologize. Thais just don't know what apologize or sorry is. Your post in forum with your good english skills don't come from a thai. You smell like a farang Kateoy TROLL.

Spot On Kev, I have said it befre on other topics "thats no lady" and certainly not Thai

[Jaime]

As a UK architect with a hankering to live and work in Thailand I am interested in this whole issue of prohibited professions. What is real estate agency if not brokerage - which of course is a prohibited business activity for farangs? Every other real estate agent in LoS is a farang! As for architecture, there are loads of western architects employed in legitimate UK/Australian/US-Thai practices in Bangkok and vacancies at all levels are advertised in the mainstream Western architectural press, so there is obviously a way around all this. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who could elaborate. I am guessing that it is something to do with 'consultancy' status but I am not sure.

Also, someone posted something earlier in this thread about why anyone involved in the construction industry who is half decent would want to come to work in Thailand for a pittance? Answer: probably that working in Thailand for a pittance has to be preferable to working in the UK for a pittance! The construction industry has to be one of the hardest in which to make any real money if you are honest because it is so competitive, bureaucratic and above all, litigious. Profit margins in contracting are surprisingly low and architects are by far the lowest paid (in the UK at least) of all the professions yet carry legal liability for free advice given to a neighbour about a leaky roof 6 years before! No 'my heart bleeds' comments please!

As for Shaun: best of luck in your business venture! I would be interested to know how you get around the whole prohibited professions thing and how you deal with the Thai building permits issue.

Cheers!

[siam]

I think that it is time that some farang came here and started a business and would teach the Thai how to do things,,an American brick layer will lay 40+ block per hour and each block is finish when the throws the next one,the wall can be left as is, painted or stucco'd ,,A thai will throw 50 blocks a day and they will be at odd angles,partly filled to over filled and the wall will have to have 2 inches of stucco to make it look OK.If it don't fall before the stucco is on.

And pobly the reason he said he  builds for farang is because they will pay for good workmanship and a thai don't know good workmanship from a chicken fight.

Yea, farangs are so wonderful, i should kiss the ground they walk on.

I apologize for all Thai people in Thailand and say that we are very sorry that we do not come up to your high standards, once again, i am sorry.

Yea farangs are so wonderful and you should kiss the ground thanks to what farangs done for Thailand.

And you are not a ThaiTeenGirl, because a TGT will never be interested in houseconstruction or workmanship. If you are a TGT yor interesting is money.

If you are Thai, you will never apologize. Thais just don't know what apologize or sorry is. Your post in forum with your good english skills don't come from a thai. You smell like a farang Kateoy TROLL.

I said to my partner once "Sia Jai"because i had done something wrong,and she said"Thais do not use that"

Thais don't how to be sorry,

I have also noticed have you?When they do something wrong to you,That they never sound sincere?Just my views

I think TGT has a problem/hang up.

[Rinrada]

work in Thailand for a pittance? Answer: probably that working in Thailand for a pittance has to be preferable to working in the UK for a pittance!

The construction industry has to be one of the hardest in which to make any real

While all architects might aspire to be a Richard Rogers,Norie Foster or Renzo Piano it surely goes without saying that outfits luke the Wimpeys,T.W and St Georges who provide the bread and butter commissions but poss.without the sore heads (heeds)are the/your final settlements.

O.K. Danny Lieb. is doing well with his latest projects (incl.Met Uni-North London)and we will have to see how his replacement for the twin towers works out..New York contraversal yes ...Chiang mai ..not really/unlikely

Must admit in 30 odd years working with/alongside Artichokes (friend -honestly) I have found that they do lets say tend to be a wee bit full of themselves and almost without exception e-centric which although aint a bad thing can be a pain in the butt when they are on their subject during an early morning meeting (out of this world-sometimes) when ave got a hangover

Anyway main subject.. re:the UK construction industry..most of the "Subbies"on my projects here in the smoke (social housing..yea I know) dont get out of bed unless they clear at leat £1000 a week which I suppose in the big picture must be considered a pittance.

At least I dont tip them and and you can "be shure" that they will have done a body swerve by one oclock on friday afternoon and be either be in the local pub, trying to improve their English language speaking ability or ....mostly... heading back "oop narth" all horses for etc...

Salt of the Earth....gawd bless em

[Jaime]

Quote from Rinrada (how do you do the boxed quote thing?):

"most of the "Subbies"on my projects here in the smoke (social housing..yea I know) dont get out of bed unless they clear at leat £1000 a week which I suppose in the big picture must be considered a pittance."

In the UK, the average earnings of a self employed architect acting as sole principle (effectively working in the same way as a subbie running their own business) and aged between 35-39 is, wait for it: .....£28,000 per annum, which equates to only £538 per week assuming that they work every week of the year. The moral of the story? I should've been a brickie! The source of the statistic, by the way, is the August 2004 RIBA Journal survey on UK architects earnings.

It rankles to get paid a few hundred quid for planning and building regulations drawings when the same client pays thousands for a feng shui consultant to tell him where to put his plants!

[Rinrada]

Know what you mean

On the other hand when the rain is pissing down and the building sites resemble first world war battlefields I know that I prefer to be sitting (here...as now ) looking out off my well heated office window,day-dreaming, while observing the Thai Airways Jumbo jets (or any other tin budgies) making their final approach to land in at Heathrow.

I dont pick up much more than the average Archi. but even with this pittance it all goes to pay for the next piece of real estate wife decides we need to buy in Chiang Rai.

My days of roughing it are over I am am now more of a "lounge lounger"in a decent clean local pub (no subbies) glass of reputable "Vina Colapso" and civilised company in preference to building site "caffes"...smelly bacon and egg butties as well as the nico-tinned and even smellier punters

Time for another capo-chino

re the QUOTE just hit the "quote" and delete whats not needed.

[Ajarn]

My Handyman is now available for other private work, and I recommend him highly...

He has done construction work around my house for 4 or 5 years. He does excellent work, and is especially great at doing safe, quality electrical work- he was the head electrician at the Empress Hotel until recently moving off to be his own boss. I know his family quite well and, in fact, that's how we originally connected. Extremely nice guy, and I would vouch for his honesty, for sure.

He says he can speak English....And a couple of more words beyond those, I think

Prathom is his name. Handphone number is 01-706-6939

He lives in Chiang Dao, but comes to Chiang Mai daily to work. Great if you live north of Chiang Mai and need someone good. I'm sure he'd be willing to travel as far south as Hang Dong/Lamphun...

I've been paying him 200-500 baht per job, lasting anywhere from a couple of hours, to the better part of a day....