Dog Poisoning

[INTJ]

Hi,

Hoping to get a bit of input from TV members on this typically Thai problem.

In my moo-bahn there is a horrible, aggressive dog that belongs to a local teacher. She is a nice lady, but seems unable to face the fact that this dog is an absolute nightmere. Every time someone rides past on a motorbike it will chase them, snapping and trying to bite them. The local children have formed a virtual exclusion zone. Also, I have had to forbid my son from riding his bicycle in the area. I have to take a detour home if this thing is outside the gate. (It is left to roam freely most days).

When approached about this she looks embarrased, and says that he is very old, and his brain is not functioning properly, and he doesn't mean to do it. Matters are made worse by the fact that when she is around it doesn't even bark, just lies down quietly.

A friend of my wife came to visit and the dog tried to bite her. Now this woman is not the type to take any nonsense. She got hold of the lady's number and called her up to ask her what was going on with this wretched creature. She replied she knew, but then put the phone down.

I want to kill this beast, as it seems the only solution. My wife seems worried about karmic reprisals, where as I am more concerned about someone seeing me, telling her and my car getting trashed or suchlike.

I have lived in this estate for over 2 years now. The straw that broke the camels back was this thing snarling and snapping at me a few minutes ago. Just had enough of it.

The only slight fly in the ointment is that the dog owner is a nice lady, and really loves the dog, so I don't really know where to go from here with this one. Is poisoning it a reasonable thing to do under the circumstances, or shall I wait for it to take a chunk out of my sons face ? Also I have no idea how to do this, I am thinking rat poison and beef ?

Looking for some ethical advice, and/or some advice from accomplished poisoners.

Cheers.

[chanchao]

Any chance at convincing the lady to keep the beast inside the gate?

If not: Kill it.

[Fred Sanford]

Poisoning a dog? That's not very nice.

[JimmyTheMook]

Get some Luk Chins ( you know the little Thai meatballs) lace them up and feed the horrible beast.

[kmart]

Poisoning a dog isn't nice, and apparently is an agonizing death for the poor mutt too. However, as a sometimes sleepless victim of constantly howling and aggressive soi dogs, short of poisoning the stupid owner, I would do it. And I like dogs...

If it bites the kids, they run the risk of some nasty diseases and certainly painful injections afterwards.

[leisurely]

If the woman is aware that it's brain isn't working properly she has a moral obligation to euthanise the animal. I have to say that if that was running around where I live threatening my children I would be having strong words with her. Does she know how upset you (and presumably others) are?

make her aware and get her to keep it inside, you can't have mad/unpredictable dogs roaming around.

[Etrigan]

If you really are determined to kill the dog, please don't poison it. One of my dogs was poisoned and it took two weeks for her to die as her nervous system began to collapse. Her suffering was immense. She was a lovely dog and never troubled anyone.

Might I suggest then, if you really are going to do it, a quick death. But not poison.

[sbk]

Poisoning is slow, agonizing and horrible. If there is karmic retribution, inflicting this kind of death would most certainly earn you something bad in your wife's eyes

May I suggest, since the owner seems incapable of keeping her dog in her yard that you contact your puyaiban? Or the tessabahn of where you live? Explain the danger of this dog and see if there is someone who can come out and take care of it.

[draggons]

OP know just how you feel. I live in the sticks and nipping out to the local store in the evening to pick up beers can be a nightmare. I started taking a heavy stick with me on the bike and started twatting the ######ers with it, don't bother me anymore, still growl but won't come near me.

[INTJ]

Don't really know about how to administer a quick (and undetectable) death to a dog ?

I'm sorry aout your dog, but this one is a horror and deserves to die a slow painful death.

Plus, its old and the owner would probably attribute its demise to "natural causes".

If she came home to find its throat cut I imagine she would be very upset.

Cheers for the comments. Looks like the mutts days are numbered.

INTJ

[GuestHouse]

I think you are confusing Ethics and Morals.

However, there is some interest in this as a case in Normative Ethics, since you and the dog owner are of different cultures, and I presume religious, ethical backgrounds.

As an Ethical study, it is interesting to consider what behaviour is acceptable in terms of responsibility to each other for both you and the dog owner.

Meanwhile, stick to the common ground and consider that killing a dog with poison is not a nice thing to do, as has been related here, it may take days or even weeks to die.

[mmushr00m]

Run over it with a car/truck/lorry. If you're squemish, pay someone to do it.

[chanchao]

Running over a dog who expects to have to dodge harm is not very easy. I know, I tried.

[johna]

OP know just how you feel. I live in the sticks and nipping out to the local store in the evening to pick up beers can be a nightmare. I started taking a heavy stick with me on the bike and started twatting the ######ers with it, don't bother me anymore, still growl but won't come near me.

Quote

have the same problem where I live, I have been bitten by a dog here and chased quite a few times, carry a stick and give this dog a good thwack it will not bother you again

[meadish_sweetball]

How about taking the sensible advice of contacting the phuu yai baan?

Poisoning a dog is a cowardly thing to do, even in this case.

[bendix]

I can't believe it's taken 15 posts to point out that it's morally reprehensible to think of killing an ignorant and ultimately innocent dog.

[sriracha john]

When approached about this she looks embarrassed, and says that he is very old, and his brain is not functioning properly, and he doesn't mean to do it. Matters are made worse by the fact that when she is around it doesn't even bark, just lies down quietly.

This the root of the problem.

A friend of my wife came to visit and the dog tried to bite her.

This is the potential fallout from the problem.

I want to kill euthanize this beast animal, as it seems the only solution. My wife seems worried about karmic reprisals, where as I am more concerned about someone seeing me, telling her and my car getting trashed or suchlike.

This is how to look at the problem differently. The dog is old, senile, and dangerous. You are doing it a favor. You are not murdering it.

The only slight fly in the ointment is that the dog owner is a nice lady, and really loves the dog, so I don't really know where to go from here with this one. Is poisoning it a reasonable thing to do under the circumstances, or shall I wait for it to take a chunk out of my sons face ? Also I have no idea how to do this, I am thinking rat poison and beef?

This is how you solve the problem. The lady recognizes he is old and will reconcile quickly.

[sriracha john]

I am willing to amend my comments in that there are perhaps better methods of euthanizing as it would humanely lessen its suffering.

[bendix]

memo to self - don't get old and senile and live anywhere near sriracha.

If the owner loves the dog, she will MOST definitely NOT seeing killing it as a good thing. Surely it can't be that hard to persuade her - either directly or via the poo baan yai - to keep the thing tied up.

And rather than poisoning it, why not just sedate it?

[qwertz]

Why not do the right thing.

Get a little local help, dope it, kidnap it and take it to a vet to be euthanased.

Thais probably wouldn't comment if the initial deed is done by Thais.

[tijnebijn]

If the dog has bitten you ,you should go to your teacher neighbour and tell her.Does she gave the dog for rabies ? If not she , in law I think even , got to pay you for the injection(the police even when you can prove the bite ) . The Puu Yai , like one poster pointed out , should be informed , and they should make the next step .

I know from experience though , they will try to talk to her about the problem , but likely if she is not willing , will leave it like that . Around our home are a dozen stray dogs running everything that moves. It is very anoying ,it is , but never came up in my mind to poison them . If they find out you did , you could have serious problems with the neighbourhood . Things like this happen very often ,but when a foreigner does it they will have a reason to talk around at you . Not very intelligent considering

we will always be the expats visiting their homeground ......Just try to talk , if nothing works ,ignore the owner , and she will feel uncomfortable , maybe she gets the hint .

[bendix]

Just as an aside, I'm pretty sure that if it became known that the resident farang deliberately killed the lady's dog, it could cause more trouble than it solved.

Am I the only person on TV with a heart? *ahem*

[MTW]

You know a dog doesn't have to be old, crazy or senile to want to chase objects that in essense go running by in front of its house, that is natural behavior. You all haven't seen that before? You all have never heard not to "run away" from certain animals so that you won't kick in their chase response? The fact that the dog doesn't have the proper training, and IS NOT inside a fence is the biggest problem here.

Why don't you write a note and say someone is going to poison the dog IF she doesn't start keeping it inside a fence or in her house???? But don't actually do it.

Can't you all think of a way to keep the dog alive since he isn't really an evil creature, as well as help the old lady think of some ways to solve the situation. You all have many ideas to help me solve my problems. There are many, many dogs who do this in Thailand, are you going to kill them all?

[bendix]

It's not often I find myself agreeing with MTW. On this point, I am rather pleased to say I do.

[qwertz]

Just as an aside, I'm pretty sure that if it became known that the resident farang deliberately killed the lady's dog, it could cause more trouble than it solved.

Am I the only person on TV with a heart? *ahem*

[sriracha john]

Naw... Bendix... you're welcome to get old and senile here in Sriracha....because you're not dangerous, ya big teddie bear.

The Eskimos that would you put out on ice flow just for being old aren't common here.

and I have a heart... I would oppose killing it in some gruesome manner, but I would favor euthanizing it humanely and quickly as possible.

It's suffering... and the community around it is suffering with its presence and the potential for someone to be seriously suffering from it are high.

There's certainly no need for it to be a go-it-alone farang expedition. Small village, certainly get pu yai involved.

[bendix]

Have you no compassion qwertz?

[Old Man River]

I want to kill this beast, as it seems the only solution. My wife seems worried about karmic reprisals, where as I am more concerned about someone seeing me, telling her and my car getting trashed or suchlike.

I am sure that this nice old lady has relatives that are not so nice. Kill her dog and your car being trashed will be the least of your worries. There are some good ideas on this thread. Take the advice.

[INTJ]

Apparently people have tried to talk to her for years about this creature but to no avail.

You know how it is here, things just drag on and on with no one prepared to take any action.

Forget the Pooyai thing, its not that sort of place. Plus, if I do approach anybody, nothing gets done, then the dog dies, I will be the obvious suspect.

So what are the options apart from poisoning (which seems to be the preferred way of disposing of neighbours dogs here) ?

Its all well and good all this animal welfare talk, but if it was chasing your 7 year old on his bicycle trying to bite him, and him coming home in tears you would probably see things a bit differently.

Cheers

[qwertz]

Have you no compassion qwertz?

Me? I'm full of it.

Compassion I mean.

I'm absolutely against any kind of unnecessary cruelty and brutality and I hate the way animals are treated there and elsewhere.

It even hurts me when I have to take a pet to be humanely destroyed.

I wonder if anyone can imagine how agonising poisoning can be?

It must be far worse than appendicitis or gastro enteritis.

BTW, the smileys were a playful chip at your "heart" comment.

Edited June 28, 2007 by qwertz