Are Thai solar panels any good for home use in LOS?

[Scouse123]

Hi,

 

This is an area I know nothing about but I am seeing more and more frequently in home shops and various other stores Solar panels being advertised.

 

We have our own large detached Bungalow in the North East, (well three actually), and I was wondering if they are worthwhile investing in and do they provide the savings to warrant the purchase?

 

My family members have them in the UK but they also did a deal where they sold surplus back to the national grid and it worked well for them although the subsidies they initially got in the UK are coming to an end.

 

I know those things are not possible in Thailand.

[Gottfrid]

They are working, but as you post. The quality is never same sure here, and the life span might vary. I know people that bought them, and they are saying it is ok. However, I would not take that chance.

[Crossy]

Let's drop this over to the dedicated Alternative Energy forum.

 

[BritManToo]

Had mine going for 6 months now.

Cost 50kbht for panels (9) and inverter + 45kbht for batteries.

Electricity bill reduced from 1400bht/month to 250bht/month.

If I live another 89 months it will have been worth it!

 

But on the plus side, I don't have power cuts any more when it's a bit windy or rains.

An if TEOTWAWKI happens, I'll still have power.

[Gottfrid]

43 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Had mine going for 6 months now.

Cost 50kbht for panels (9) and inverter + 45kbht for batteries.

Electricity bill reduced from 1400bht/month to 250bht/month.

If I live another 89 months it will have been worth it!

 

But on the plus side, I don't have power cuts any more when it's a bit windy or rains.

An if TEOTWAWKI happens, I'll still have power.

I hope it works well, but much can happen in 89 months. Extra costs for repair when things go broke, might be a set back.

[KhunLA]

"I was wondering if they are worthwhile investing in and do they provide the savings to warrant the purchase?"

 

Depends on outlay vs usage and ROI.

 

We went much larger than our needs, at the time.  Miscalculation by myself, and not realizing how less electric the new build would use vs the energy sucking rental we had.  Also an installed system, so more expensive than DIY.

 

But very happy we did, as wife will, should outlast about 20+ years, and larger system means longer life, especially the ESSs/battery back ups.

 

Considering our electric use, and PEA ever increasing rates, and now with EV charging, it's one of the best investments I've made in a long time.  Think our ROI is going to be 7-10yrs.

[BritManToo]

46 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

I hope it works well, but much can happen in 89 months. Extra costs for repair when things go broke, might be a set back.

My inverter is now down to 12kbht, so not that expensive to replace.

The battery banks I built myself, and I've a couple of spares, so not much potential for costs there.

 

I'm thinking I'll be dead long before I need to worry about the system catastrophically failing. More chance of the grid failing IMHO.

Edited December 19, 2022 by BritManToo

[AgMech Cowboy]

5 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

The quality is never same sure here, and the life span might vary

Aren't they all made in China?

[Stevemercer]

The way electricity prices are going it may be increasingly worthwhile, particularly if paired with an electric car.

 

The current cost to fully charge a high range electric car (400 - 500 km) is 350 -400 Baht. If you can charge from solar the savings will be significant. In addition, such a car will have a high capacity battery that can be used to supplement the household system during an emergency.

 

Governments are starting to add supplements to electricity costs to counter decreased revenue from fuel sales traditionally used to fund road works. This will pump up electricity prices over the next 5 years as electric car sales take off.

 

So a solar system may be attractive particulalry if you are looking at buying an electric car within the next 5 years. Buy a car with a larger battery that can feed back power into your household, and you will save yourself the cost of an additional house battery pack.

[Denim]

Don't have expensive Solar panel set up to run all appliances but do have solar lights in every room so if there is a power cut we have full lighting. We cook with gas and have our smartphones so no power now just means no air con , small inconvenience. Cost was a couple of thousand baht.

[JayBird]

What are the go to places in Thailand to purchase this equipment?

 

Might be able to choose from brands better.

[scorecard]

21 minutes ago, Denim said:

Don't have expensive Solar panel set up to run all appliances but do have solar lights in every room so if there is a power cut we have full lighting. We cook with gas and have our smartphones so no power now just means no air con , small inconvenience. Cost was a couple of thousand baht.

Panels/systems specific to use seems to be more popular. 

 

Heard of several people installing panels etc., just to run 1 air conditioner. Batteries charge in the day time, use the batteries for many hours for air-con at night. Whether this is really efficient I don't know.

 

Son has been establishing an orchard near Tak and doing a lot of research about electric powered farm equipment and panels/systems etc. Seems there now a big variety of electric farm equipment and panels/systems sellers even in more remote Thai locations (and of course can order from China).

[Crossy]

Real world numbers from our DIY 10.6kWp system, you decide if it's going to be worth it.

 

I've deliberately left the actual cost out, mainly because I've lost track. The system keeps evolving with "adjustments", but Madam is happy to see the small power bills (she doesn't see what I actually spend on hardware or my time).

 

[bigupandchill]

Does the roi shorten if fitting to a new build? Can we save money on the roof by fitting solar at the same time?

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, bigupandchill said:

Does the roi shorten if fitting to a new build? Can we save money on the roof by fitting solar at the same time?

ROI would be the same no matter, and based on your use vs cost of system. 

 

New, quality build, will help your PEA / solar usage, simply by using less kW, especially if you abuse the AC as we do.   Better build, less usage, and have a system for that usage, so overall buy in cost of solar, will offset and better more expensive building materials.

 

Actually I find the cost of building materials about the same or less at times, than what use to be standard.   Availability has brought down the cost considerably since 20 yrs ago, if even available then.  Insulated block vs cinder or red, is well worth the extra, for exterior walls.  Price close enough our interior walls, few that we have, are also insulated block/K-Q-con, and whatever brand used.

 

Insulated rolled steel roof (BlueScope) is better, stronger, cheaper than traditional roofs of 20 yrs ago.   And since lighter, not as much steel needed to support it.   Though do consider the extra weight of panels when designing.

 

Saving while doing both at same time, may be possible, if using same contractor, if possible.  That's a stretch though.  We decided to get solar just after our build started, but not finished enough so make allowances, cut in some space for conduit and leave areas unsealed, to ease solar install.  But that's about it, and really didn't make a lot of difference.  Just cosmetics really.

[bkk_mike]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

ROI would be the same no matter, and based on your use vs cost of system. 

 

New, quality build, will help your PEA / solar usage, simply by using less kW, especially if you abuse the AC as we do.   Better build, less usage, and have a system for that usage, so overall buy in cost of solar, will offset and better more expensive building materials.

 

Actually I find the cost of building materials about the same or less at times, than what use to be standard.   Availability has brought down the cost considerably since 20 yrs ago, if even available then.  Insulated block vs cinder or red, is well worth the extra, for exterior walls.  Price close enough our interior walls, few that we have, are also insulated block/K-Q-con, and whatever brand used.

 

Insulated rolled steel roof (BlueScope) is better, stronger, cheaper than traditional roofs of 20 yrs ago.   And since lighter, not as much steel needed to support it.   Though do consider the extra weight of panels when designing.

 

Saving while doing both at same time, may be possible, if using same contractor, if possible.  That's a stretch though.  We decided to get solar just after our build started, but not finished enough so make allowances, cut in some space for conduit and leave areas unsealed, to ease solar install.  But that's about it, and really didn't make a lot of difference.  Just cosmetics really.

Do they still have the ~10kW restriction (nominal) on the panels for grid-tied systems? (I'm guessing that's why your system is 10.6kW)

 

Personally, I think I'd want to get more panels than that, biggish battery, and an EV, and try and be as close to off-grid as possible. But our house in Bangkok was built in the 90s, so I don't think the insulation in the walls is particularly great, all the windows are single-glazed, and some of our aircons are ancient.

Size of the battery would obviously depend on the choice of EV as some do vehicle to load, and some don't.

[Crossy]

The type of system (and therefore the cost) you install depends greatly upon your intention and your usage pattern.

 

For example: -

You have a retail outlet and an EV which you can charge during the day.

A basic grid-tie system whereby the energy is used as soon as it's made (running the A/C and charging the car) would make sense (even with no export/net-metering in place). 

 

At the other end of the scale.

You have a home that's empty all day with only minimal daytime consumption (fridge/freezer, fish tank pump etc.), so you need to time-shift your energy.

You can do this with an ESS (Energy Storage System = Batteries = $$$) or by exporting to the grid during the day and re-importing at night **

 

Most of us fall somewhere in between the two extremes.

 

** The official way of doing this is to have a Feed in Tariff (FIT) which currently pays about 50% of the retail cost for each kWh you export, of course you pay full retail cost when you re-import that kWh. Unfortunately, the restrictions on installation contractors, equipment approval and the like mean that this is a non-starter for DIY and therefore significantly increases the system cost (to the point where DIY with a decent sized ESS could be economical).

 

** The rather less official way of doing this (assuming you have a conventional disc-type meter) is to simply spin the meter backwards whilst exporting, you effectively get the full retail value of every kWh you export.

This is of course illegal, but it's how probably millions of small systems operate in Thailand and to a large degree the authorities tolerate it. It's how we operate once our batteries are full, it's a shame to waste our excess production ????  Just ensure that you never actually end up as a net-exporter (-ve monthly use) and that the meter reader never sees the meter going backwards. I've never heard of anyone who got caught out getting more than a slapped wrist and the installation of a no-reverse meter.

[alant]

Can anyone help with how do they stand up to the rain / winds we can get and how much cleaning from dust / dirt etc?

[Crossy]

14 minutes ago, alant said:

Can anyone help with how do they stand up to the rain / winds we can get and how much cleaning from dust / dirt etc?

 

No issue with weather effects (panels are designed to be outdoors in all weathers), provided your mounting / roof are up to the load.

 

They do get dusty, ours get the garden hose and pool brush (no soap) when I think they look dirty. To be honest it's difficult to quantify just how much output is lost due to the dirt as the sunshine is also a variable.

[007 RED]

@Scouse123   "This is an area I know nothing about but I am seeing more and more frequently in home shops and various other stores Solar panels being advertised.

 

We have our own large detached Bungalow in the North East, (well three actually), and I was wondering if they are worthwhile investing in and do they provide the savings to warrant the purchase?

 

My family members have them in the UK but they also did a deal where they sold surplus back to the national grid and it worked well for them although the subsidies they initially got in the UK are coming to an end.

 

I know those things are not possible in Thailand."

 

If you are going to consider going totally off grid with solar and Electrical Storage System (batteries), then you don't need to involve your local PEA, but it's going to cost you mega bucks unless you are competent to DIY.

 

If you want a grid tied system that will feed any surplus power back into the grid and get paid for it, then you cannot DIY.  You are going to need to employ an installer who has been approved by your local PEA. This will involve a mountain of paperwork.  The installation supervisor must hold a BSc in electrical engineering, and be licenced to practice plus he/she must be onsite throughout the install.  The panel mounting (roof etc) must be inspected and certified by a licenced Chartered Civil Engineer thatthe roof etc can accommodate the weight of the panels and wind forces and that the proposed fixings conform to the EGAT requirements.  Once the install has been completed it must then be inspected/approved by the PEA senior engineer who in turn will then forward the mountain of paperwork to EGAT to get their approval for you to feedback into the grid  The list of bureaucracy is endless.  Such an install is also going to cost you mega, mega, bucks.  At the end of the day your local PEA will only pay you peanuts if for any feed into the grid if, and its a big if, they supply you with a meter that will record both consumption and feedback.  Hence your ROI is going to be a really long term investment.

 

FYI... If I recall correctly, one forum member has been waiting several years for a feedback meter to be installed by his PEA and he's not received a single Baht for what his system has been feeding back to the grid during that period.

 

Have I put you off the idea of going solar?  I hope not, because it really depends upon what you want to achieve at the end of the day.

 

I installed a small scale DIY grid tied solar system on my car port roof 14 months ago.  It comprises 4 x 415W half cut mono solar panels which are connected to a 2kW Sofar grid tied inverter.  The system produces approximately 75% of our daily electrical needs.  We don't have an ESS.   The total cost of the hardware was 28,000 THB (no labour costs as I did everything myself). 

 

 

 

In the first 12 months the system saved us just over 11,000 THB on our electricity bills, so I anticipate that the ROI is going to be about 2.5 years.  The only down side of such an installation is that it makes the meter disc spin backwards and because such action is frowned upon by the local PEA I need to ensure that the meter reader never sees the meter spinning backwards, or that we go into negative meter reading.

 

Hope this helps.

[Crossy]

11 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

FYI... If I recall correctly, one forum member has been waiting several years for a feedback meter to be installed by his PEA and he's not received a single Baht for what his system has been feeding back to the grid during that period.

 

Yeah, that would be @Thaifish.

 

IIRC he got a bit blasé about spinning his meter backwards because he was booked for a proper export meter and his meter-man knew all about it.

 

Enter the substitute meter reader ... ???? 

[Thaifish]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

he got a bit blasé about spinning his meter backwards because he was booked for a proper export meter

That's true. Still waiting. Big mistake being blasé. Have done visits in person to PEA and numerous phone calls after taking photo's of recently installed digital meter's around the local area that I have found here in Issan. I payed for mine over two years ago 2,500Bht but cannot hab as only for new instillations...!! So I exported something like 30Kwh today into the grid because I cannot use.... and....... This is Thailand..... Don't mention the WAR.... Maybe not to far down the track it will happen with a digital meter.. Dreaming me thinks.....

[Crossy]

@ThaifishYou must be one of the few members of this forum that actually WANTS a digital meter ???? 

 

I assume that your battery packs are still on hold / not happening too ???? 

 

The batteries are also a word to the wise for anyone considering Huawei inverters. Whilst they are generally excellent units, they use a specific high-voltage pack, so 3rd-party / DIY packs are difficult to impossible and genuine Huawei packs are $$$ ???? 

[Thaifish]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

I assume that your battery packs are still on hold / not happening too ???? 

Yes correct. On Hold for the time being. Ended up buying a motorbike. When and if the digital meter happens the excess we are exporting during the dry season should carry us mostly through the high power usage months around Songkran. 

[MJCM]

On 12/20/2022 at 10:02 AM, alant said:

Can anyone help with how do they stand up to the rain / winds we can get and how much cleaning from dust / dirt etc?

We have them ground mounted now and totally not an issue with rains / winds.

 

Our main issue is our feather friends (they are not my friends any more ???? )  because they like to sit on the ledges and then use the panels as their toilets. ????

 

Fortunately as the panels are ground mounted we can clean them easily but it's a task we have to do every other day with a Soft Brush on a long pole and a lot of water.

 

In the near future ALL the panels will be wall mounted and that will mean going up a ladder to clean them.

[bluejets]

On 12/19/2022 at 8:33 PM, scorecard said:

Heard of several people installing panels etc., just to run 1 air conditioner. Batteries charge in the day time, use the batteries for many hours for air-con at night. Whether this is really efficient I don't know.

More a conversion I would have thought.

Whether efficient or to whatever level, one must compare input to output costs.