Falang Old Age And Death In Thailand

[ronswelters2]

I went out with a Thai nurse once up in CM and she worked for a nursing home for Alzheimer patients – almost all from Switzerland. Once you don't know where you are it's not so important where you are after all. The cost has got to be 1/4 or less of Europe or US. In fact I'd guess close to 1/10th (I had some surgery here and it worked out to close to that). To Swelters' point I do think this could be a business opportunity. Especially if I think about the types of assisted living facilities. As many of us get older, especially if we are alone having an apartment in a building that provides housekeeping, meals and companionship with someone checking in on us is a really good option for people who still can be independent but maybe shouldn't be or don't want to be living on their own all alone.

And to qwertz's comment I agree 100%. I intend to retire and die here and the last thing I worry about is who will take care of me. I hope my Thai wife-to-be will be with me to my last breath but if she is not I think there a lot of wonderful Thai women of all ages and backgrounds who'd be happy to live in and take care of an elderly person in a very caring way. When my 81 year old mom was here she was amazed by the kind care and attention from my mail and the respect she was shown. Like anywhere if you are penniless then life can suck but if you had a reasonable income I think the options here are much better than I'd expect in the US.

As to medical care it's good enough here. In the US we spend an amazing percentage of the medical budget on the last month of life, prolonging things so often way too long. Maybe if I'm here upcountry somewhere I'll have to expect to make a graceful exit a little sooner but a prolonged stay in a hospital with life support isn't necessarily what I'd want anyway. Better to go out with the dogs and people who care about me around me.

Matches my sentiments exactly. Both of our parents intensely disliked the expensive and useless "care" they got toward the end in US facilities and wished to be left to die in peace. My mother used to greet the daily doctor with "ah, Doctor Kevorkian, here at last" (Kevorkian was a euthanasia advocate, much abused by the legal authorities).

One question in the case of Thai care would be how to set up some kind of trustee arrangement so that caregivers are accountable.

[toptuan]

Relatives of organ donors are often gratified that their loved ones organs live on in another person. By the same token, dog lovers should be gratified to think that their beloved dogs might eat them after they are gone!

That's really a touching thought. Someone should pass that soothing observation on to the descendants of the Donner Party. Since I don't have dogs, perhaps I'll be able to live on in the ant colony which inhabits the walls of my house.

Edited June 30, 2007 by toptuan

[Thehedonist]

i advocate for the establishment of a Compassionate Law and Euthanasia Clinics in which to implement that law. the concept of Euthanasia is applicable anywhere, even thailand, home of the aged and often lonely.

recently the thai minister of communications indicated in an interview with the int'l herald tribune that he had invented a Euthanasia machine which he intended to use if the need arose. so the concept is not unknown here.

and given a choice between an old age home, where i could expect to be kept 'alive' for as long as the money held out, or a peaceful and painless death at the time, place, and in the manner of my own choosing i would prefer the latter.

to make this choice before or at the time of the on-set of some debilitating medical crisis seems to me to be a better choice than endless medical exams, procedures, bills, and an undignified, painful, and protracted final exit.

the concept of Euthanasia is based on the individual's right to choose. that means that it is the person involved, not the church, the state, or the doctors, who are empowered to make that most important of all of life's decisions. unfortunately the current state of affairs is such that a person who makes that choice may be endangering his friends, family, and loved ones if they choose to be with him at the time of his death. a Compassionate Law would remove that peril and a Euthanasia Clinic would provide a place where that law could be easily implemented.

for further information i have a couple of blogs and a website, euthanasiaclinicdotcom.

I see "Dr Death " is alive and well, there are many states arround the world that would love this to be law. Good to see a sensible debate on this one, not like Lonely men in Pattaya, similar theme !

[sendbaht]

My wife (only 8 years younger) promised me she would never but me in a nursing home. I will just rest on the front porch and watch my little Thai grandkids run around. This she said is what her Grandpa did. No hurry.

[unforgiven]

I live happily alone in my little house in Pattaya with two lovely Thai Dogs, since my Divorce last year.

The only thing that worries me sometimes is the thought that I might pop-off and no-one will find out for

week or more. The Dogs would have to eat me!

THAT is often the reallity of retirement in LOS.

I have aquaintances sure. But they wouldn't miss me for quite a while. GFs? They come and go......

But this worst case scenario will not happen hopefully......

This story brought me back about the death of my faverite movie star 'William Holden'.

Although BILL spent much of his retirement in his owned safari ranch in Africa, but last trip to the US had him done, someone found his body in his apartment one week after his death. Sad !

I'm still watching his movies all the times especially 'Stalag 17'.

Ya holden was the man !!!How did he die? I thought it was alchol related

[jetjock]

Ya holden was the man !!!How did he die? I thought it was alchol related

Bill Holden died from a fall inside his apartment in Santa Monica. He was alone and heavily intoxicated and his body was not found until several days after his death.

My mother who is still kicking up her heels at age 92 told me many years ago that when I get old, I should be smart and marry a nurse like Cary Grant and many of the movie stars did when they got older so they had someone to take care of them in their old age.

I did not follow her advice but did marry a much younger woman. Several of my good friends have now moved to Thailand so I spend much of my time there with them but not sure where I will be when my time comes. I do think that long term care in Thailand is usually better and much much cheaper than here in the US and hopefully I will not have to worry about that for a long time. I plan to outlive my friends as I always want to be the last one standing so they will probably not be there for me when I get old and feeble. I have never wanted to be a burden on anybody so hopefully euthanasia will be legal by then or that I will have enough wits and strength about me to just fly west into the sunset and never return.

[cobra]

I have often thought about a retirement home for old and ailing farangs. I think it would be a GREAT idea. Some condo development on the beach that went broke would be a great spot to build a project like this. Wheelchair access to all rooms, the beach and recreation areas. Doctors on call and nurses to check on the tenants several times a day as well as delivering meals would be a winner. US nursing homes start at about $4,000 dollars a month and the care is NOT that great. I KNOW, my dad is in one of them.

I'm not so sure,

I've seen retirement homes and hospices where the aged and infirm are simply warehoused until they expire (or run out of money), it's horribly depressing.

Of course you get what you pay for and maybe higher-end facilities can up the comfort level,

but personally I'd like to remain in my own place,

As far as my body not being discovered in a timely fashion I really don't care, I'm done with it.

I think it would be fairly easy to put in place some handler or other entity that would make a weekly visit.

Needless to say, it's prudent to have your affairs in order at any age, especially Wills, final disposition, etc, and of course try not to be worth more dead then alive,

[Heng]

There was a study in the 20's in the US about abandoned babies raised in orphanages. Fed three times a day, diapers changed, with 1 attendant per 10 or so babies. Without constant affection, care, and non-basic need attention, these babies withered and died with the survivors often developing severe mental retardation.

Really old people aren't too different from human infants. And humans can't live without love... and love isn't about being warehoused with a bunch of other old folks playing backgammon, Scrabble, and queuing up to play shuffleboard.

[mellow1]

Who is taking care of your Mothers and Fathers,while you are all living in the LOS?

[Aujuba]

100,000 farangs is deceptive. First, I'm sure that the government doesn't use the term farang. Could there be 100,000 foreigners possible but still I would doubt it unless there are a lot of Laotians added to the foreigners list. Other things that might be affecting the numbers: records that are probably out of date, Thais who are in Thailand on foreign passports, Thai with dual citizenship. Really you can't trust Thai math despite Thai scores on Math tests. Isn't it funny that Asian students are rated so highly in math yet the countries out here have so many statistical and accounting problems in government and company books.

[farang prince]

Who is taking care of your Mothers and Fathers,while you are all living in the LOS?

That is an excellent question Mellow1. I've wondered about that myself. In my case, I live six months in Bkk and six months in the USA. My mom just turned 89 and we take care of her for the six months that I'm in the USA. I have a cousin who stays with mom the other six months. There are no plans for her to go into a nursing home. It would kill her to leave her family to be with a bunch of strangers and I want her to be around to celebrate her 90th birthday.

My Thai partner's mom is actually my age. So when the time comes, we will care for her too (actually we all will care for each other because that's the way it should be).

[qwertz]

I was a carer for my own mother and my wife till they died.

Now I'm providing care for her mother and aunt (aged 89 and 95) with help from my stepson and daughter.

We've made sure that they get very good care but this whole care thing takes big chunks out of your life and income.

I'ts time now for me to live a little and I would avoid any future relationship involving caring for aged relatives.

I hope I don't come across as callous here because that's far from what I am.

But I know many people in the same situation and one thing is clear to me - nobody cares much about the carers and the strain they're living under.

[a2396]

You are asking to hear happy stories about this topic? You must be joking. This not a happy subject in any country. OLD AGE & DEATH? What could be happy about that?

Quite so.

And the older you get, the more relevant the subject becomes.

I don't expect from my offspring the same love and care I gave my parents to make their dying easier.

There is, however an alternative to consider.

Thai women are potentially very good carers.

If you set enough by to pay an aging Thai widow or divorcee a respectable weekly wage, I believe she would be prepared to make life easier for you, cook a square meal at least once a day, wash and clean a little etc.

Comfort for security, a good trade off and worth considering.

Good comment & observation. I agree that if you find a suitable & stable lady/wife, you are likely to be cared for reasonably well. Costs and medical infrastructure are reasonable and adequate in most cases here in LOS. American medical facilities and related services for the aged are certain to be more overloaded and expensive in the future than they are already. USA has been totally asleep & non-functional on addressing this issue, as has been the situation with many festering domestic problems.

[fabianfred]

I got this from the net a while ago.... looks interesting

A Different Twist on ....RETIREMENT by the meister's Father...

Recently I was checking my 401k account and thinking about retirement,

as everyone does when they hit the BIG 50 / 60 /70 or in my humble case

the 80 . I saw an article about nursing homes, care facilities and

retirement homes and ALL the expenses. Then it hit me.

No nursing home for me!

Here is my plan: I'm seriously thinking of checking into A Holiday Inn.

WHY? Read on and although conceived in humor... this is Very Sobering!

With the average cost for a nursing home reaching $188 per day, there

is a better way when we get old and feeble. I have already checked on

reservations at the Holiday Inn. For a combined long-term stay discount

and senior discount, it's $49.23 per night. That leaves $138.77 a day for

breakfast, lunch, dinner in any restaurant I want, or room service. It

also will leave enough for laundry, gratuities, and special TV movies.

Plus, I'll get a swimming pool, a workout room, a lounge, and washer

and dryer. I'll also get free toothpaste, razors, shampoo and soap. And

I'll be treated like a customer, not a patient.

Five dollars worth of tips a day will have the entire staff

scrambling. There is a city bus stop out front, and seniors ride free.

The handicap bus will also pick me up if I fake a decent limp. Ride the

church bus free on Sundays. For a change of scenery, take the airport

shuttle bus and eat at one of the nice restaurants there. While you're at

the airport, fly somewhere. Meanwhile, the cash keeps building up.

It takes months to get into decent nursing homes. On the other hand,

Holiday Inn will take your reservation today. And you are not stuck in one

place forever -- you can move from Inn to Inn, or even from city to city.

Want to see Hawaii? They have a Holiday Inn there, too. TV broken? Light

bulbs need changing? Need a mattress replaced? No problem. They fix

everything and apologize for the inconvenience.

The Inn has a night security person and daily room service. The maid checks

to see if you are OK. If not, they will call the undertaker or an ambulance. If you

fall and break a hip, Medicare will pay for the hip & Holiday Inn will upgrade

you to a suite for the rest of your life. And no worries about visits from family.

They will always be glad to visit you & probably check in for a mini-vacation.

When I discussed my plan with friends, they came up with even more benefits

that Holiday Inn provides retirees. Most standard rooms have coffee makers,

reclining chairs, and satellite TV -- all you need to enjoy a cozy afternoon.

After a movie and a good nap, you can check on your children (free local phone

calls), then take a stroll to the lounge or restaurant where you meet new and

exotic people every day. Many Holiday Inns even feature live entertainment on

the weekends. Often they have special offers, too, like the Kids Eat Free program.

You can invite your grandkids over after school to have a free dinner with you.

Just tell them not to bring more than three friends.

When I discussed this concept with relatives they had even more input... like

NO electric bills, no water & sewer bills, No Cable TV bills, No Trash bills

in fact some one each days comes and empties ALL your waste baskets, does

the beds... straightens up the living room, bath room, kitchen and bed room

along with making up the beds. There is no charge for a daily newspaper

or for 24 hour security and SEVEN day a week maid service. Meals are from

a REAL menu and there is 24 hour coffee shops, guests services, business

room with Fax, copier and the like. Uh, did I mention most now offer FREE

internet. Free towels at the Pool, Jacuzzi, spa and workout facilities.

Those of you worried about savings... forget about a horrendous Maintenance

bill that looks like what rent use to be. Save your money when it comes to

property taxes, school taxes, lawn care, house up-keep as in gardening and

landscaping. Parking is FREE and secure and convenient especially if you are

handicapped and are a LONG term resident customer. You can greet guests in

the Lobby, reading area, party or function rooms and later take them out to eat

without Going Back Out. Valet parking makes everyone feel special and on v

vacation. Everyone there greets you with a smile and by name within one week

of staying there. You feel welcomed and that you belong to a Team and one of

the staff. Everyone ALWAYS treats you with dignity and respect you will

NEVER see at an institution.

Pick a Holiday Inn where they allow pets, and your best friend can keep you

company as well. If you want to travel, but are a bit skittish about unfamiliar

surroundings, you'll always feel at home because wherever you go, the rooms

all look the same. And if you're getting a little absent-minded in your old days,

you never have to worry about not finding your room -- your electronic key fits

only one door and the helpful bellman or desk clerk is on duty 24/7.

Being natural skeptics, we called a Holiday Inn to check out this idea of my plan.

I'm happy to report that they were positively giddy at the idea of us checking in

for a year or more. They even offered to negotiate the rate to $35 a night !

My dad now has special medical needs but just like if he were home... the nurses

can visit him daily at the Holiday Inn, so can the podiatrist, the personal

Aid and assistant and even the PT therapist. On an extended stay for months you

can personalize your quarters with your own books, pictures and decorations.

Dialing ZERO and you have a live voice only a few steps away that can respond

to a request or offer assistance. The more one thinks about this and the thousands

that can be saved and invested... why in two years you could be living FREE with

a simple investment in Tax Free muni's where the principle is never touched...

You could have a 6 digit estate to hand down to your children in less than 10 years.

Now THAT is called LIVING... Seen any of the dozen Hawaiian Holiday Inns...

You would think you are in Heaven... my uncle now has a 7 day chauffeur for the

Jaguar he got for FREE with all the savings this has brought him. Amazing !

So where am I at right now... a nursing home and so is my bride... Why?

Simple, I did NOT PLAN and guess what? Neither have you ! You've been warned...

A More Innovated Approach and Up-date to the above...

About 2 years ago my friend and I were on a cruise through the western

Mediterranean aboard a Princess liner. At dinner we noticed an elderly

lady sitting alone along the rail of the grand stairway in the main dining

room. I also noticed that all the staff, ships officers, waiters, busboys, etc.,

all seemed very familiar with this lady. I asked our waiter who the lady was,

expecting to be told she owned the line, but he said he only knew that she

had been on board for the last four cruises, back to back.

As we left the dining room one evening I caught her eye and stopped to say

hello. We chatted and I said, "I understand you've been on this ship for the

last four cruises". She replied, "Yes, that's true." I stated, "I don't understand"

and she replied, without a pause, "It's cheaper than a nursing home" !

So, there will be no nursing home in my future. When I get old and feeble, I

am going to get on a Princess Cruise Ship. The average cost for a nursing

home is $200 per day. I have checked on reservations at Princess and I

can get a long term discount and senior discount price of $135 per day.

That leaves $65 a day for:

1. Gratuities which will only be $10 per day.

2. I will have as many as 10 meals a day if I can waddle to the restaurant,

or I can have room service (which means I can have breakfast in bed

every day of the week).

3. Princess has as many as three swimming pools, a workout room, free

washers and dryers, and shows every night.

4. They have free toothpaste and razors, and free soap and shampoo.

5. They will even treat you like a customer, not a patient. An extra $5 worth

of tips will have the entire staff scrambling to help you.

6. I will get to meet new people every 7 or 14 days.

7. T.V. broken? Light bulb need changing? Need to have the mattress replaced?

No Problem! They will fix everything and apologize for your inconvenience.

.

8. Clean sheets and towels every day, and you don't even have to ask for them.

9. If you fall in the nursing home and break a hip you are on Medicare; if you fall

and break a hip on the Princess ship they will upgrade you to a suite for the rest

of your life.

Now hold on for the best! Do you want to see South America, the Panama Canal,

Tahiti, Australia, Glaciers off the coast of Alaska, New York Cruise to Niagra Falls,

Asia, or name where you want to go? Princess will have a ship ready to go. So don't

look for me in a nursing home with CRUMMY FOOD, LOUSY SERVICE, CONSTIPATED

INMATES, FRUSTRATED PROVIDERS & DOCTORS THAT SEEM NEVER THERE.

Oh, and I forgot the ZINGER... prices out the WAZOO... Not this chicky. Bon Voyage...

who knows, maybe an off spring or two may just join you...

.

[PeaceBlondie]

When I worked at Holiday Inn, we had one guy stay for months and he paid no occupany tax of 15%!

There is a high class retirement home in Bangkok; my landlady bought a place there, and showed me the video where it advertised a doctor who comes by daily, nurses, maids, etc. I forget the name, but it is fairly new.

A friend of mine is almost 80, and we're concerned that he outlived both his long term Thai partners and is now alone, and vulnerable, and unlikely to be so lucky again.

When I had my little stroke in May, my partner was on the premises and quickly drove me to the hospital. My older friend may not be that lucky.

[Tinkelbell]

There was a study in the 20's in the US about abandoned babies raised in orphanages. Fed three times a day, diapers changed, with 1 attendant per 10 or so babies. Without constant affection, care, and non-basic need attention, these babies withered and died with the survivors often developing severe mental retardation.

Really old people aren't too different from human infants. And humans can't live without love... and love isn't about being warehoused with a bunch of other old folks playing backgammon, Scrabble, and queuing up to play shuffleboard.

US famouse humorous writer ' Art Buckwald ' and two of his siblings were raised in orphanage in the early '20. Of course he is now enjoying life on his good fortunes and fame. As we can see he had beaten the odd.

[Jingthing]

There was a study in the 20's in the US about abandoned babies raised in orphanages. Fed three times a day, diapers changed, with 1 attendant per 10 or so babies. Without constant affection, care, and non-basic need attention, these babies withered and died with the survivors often developing severe mental retardation.

Really old people aren't too different from human infants. And humans can't live without love... and love isn't about being warehoused with a bunch of other old folks playing backgammon, Scrabble, and queuing up to play shuffleboard.

US famouse humorous writer ' Art Buckwald ' and two of his siblings were raised in orphanage in the early '20. Of course he is now enjoying life on his good fortunes and fame. As we can see he had beaten the odd.

Enjoying his death you mean.

Art Buchwald is dead. View his historic New York Times video self obit here, where he states humorously,

"Hi, I am Art Buchwald, and I just died!"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/khtm...LD_FEATURE.html

[ThaiPauly]

My ultimate dream is to be shot by a jealous husband after finding me in bed with his wife when I am 90! I'll die with a smile on my face.

You won't be smiling if he shoots you in the nuts

[Heng]

There was a study in the 20's in the US about abandoned babies raised in orphanages. Fed three times a day, diapers changed, with 1 attendant per 10 or so babies. Without constant affection, care, and non-basic need attention, these babies withered and died with the survivors often developing severe mental retardation.

Really old people aren't too different from human infants. And humans can't live without love... and love isn't about being warehoused with a bunch of other old folks playing backgammon, Scrabble, and queuing up to play shuffleboard.

US famouse humorous writer ' Art Buckwald ' and two of his siblings were raised in orphanage in the early '20. Of course he is now enjoying life on his good fortunes and fame. As we can see he had beaten the odd.

Of course, I wasn't implying simply being an orphan was a death sentence. I was saying it's the lack of human contact/love/affection that generally destroys the mind in these types of places. Heck, it doesn't even have to take place in an orphanage or old folks home. I bet if a lot of folks on this board had a prolonged internet outage of years and years, they might suffer the same effects.

[Erwin1011]

There was a study in the 20's in the US about abandoned babies raised in orphanages. Fed three times a day, diapers changed, with 1 attendant per 10 or so babies. Without constant affection, care, and non-basic need attention, these babies withered and died with the survivors often developing severe mental retardation.

Really old people aren't too different from human infants. And humans can't live without love... and love isn't about being warehoused with a bunch of other old folks playing backgammon, Scrabble, and queuing up to play shuffleboard.

US famouse humorous writer ' Art Buckwald ' and two of his siblings were raised in orphanage in the early '20. Of course he is now enjoying life on his good fortunes and fame. As we can see he had beaten the odd.

Of course, I wasn't implying simply being an orphan was a death sentence. I was saying it's the lack of human contact/love/affection that generally destroys the mind in these types of places. Heck, it doesn't even have to take place in an orphanage or old folks home. I bet if a lot of folks on this board had a prolonged internet outage of years and years, they might suffer the same effects.

Even without the deprivation factor a lot of them already do.

[Swelters]

Several of the responses here suggest that developing a "design concept " for a facility in Thailand would be an interesting and creative effort, and I will attend to setting up a new thread on the topic probably under the health section of the forum (though I do this with the reservation that we should not necessarily think of the subject as a matter of depressing assaults on our health).

[Tinkelbell]

There was a study in the 20's in the US about abandoned babies raised in orphanages. Fed three times a day, diapers changed, with 1 attendant per 10 or so babies. Without constant affection, care, and non-basic need attention, these babies withered and died with the survivors often developing severe mental retardation.

Really old people aren't too different from human infants. And humans can't live without love... and love isn't about being warehoused with a bunch of other old folks playing backgammon, Scrabble, and queuing up to play shuffleboard.

US famouse humorous writer ' Art Buckwald ' and two of his siblings were raised in orphanage in the early '20. Of course he is now enjoying life on his good fortunes and fame. As we can see he had beaten the odd.

Enjoying his death you mean.

Art Buchwald is dead. View his historic New York Times video self obit here, where he states humorously,

"Hi, I am Art Buchwald, and I just died!"

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/khtm...LD_FEATURE.html

It was a sad day to learn about his death just now.

He was one of my idols.

RIP.

[TEFLMike]

I live happily alone in my little house in Pattaya with two lovely Thai Dogs, since my Divorce last year.

The only thing that worries me sometimes is the thought that I might pop-off and no-one will find out for

week or more. The Dogs would have to eat me!

THAT is often the reallity of retirement in LOS.

I have aquaintances sure. But they wouldn't miss me for quite a while. GFs? They come and go......

But this worst case scenario will not happen hopefully......

That scenario, alas, can also happen in the UK. It does quite frequently