Piggy back / doubling up of businesses for work permit

[JayClay]

I was posed a question recently which I wasn't able to convincingly answer, so I thought I'd seek refuge in the experts on here and see if I can't understand the issue a little better.  I'm almost certain the answer to the question is "No, you can't do that", but I can't justify why it's not possible, other than the fact that, if it was, surely we'd hear of people doing it.

 

So the question went something like this:

 

"If I work remotely (ie I have a business/an income in my home country based on freelancing as a graphic designer, software developer, business consult etc...) and want to obtain a Non-B visa and work permit for doing so, I have to employ 4 Thai staff to be able to apply for the work permit. This is not realistic as the overheads of paying for the staff would be too high, and there'd be nothing for them to do. Could I not then start up a general company dedicated to doing multiple activities; 'Tommy and Noi's Bakery and Graphic Design Emporium', for example. Whereby I could easily employ 4 staff to run the bakery, giving me enough staff to then apply for a work permit, so I can then start billing your remote freelance clients through the business?"

 

As I say, I've never heard of this happening so I'm sure it's not possible. But on what grounds would it not be possible. I felt a little silly saying "not possible, but I don't know why" (I got over it..), but I'd be interested in the actual answer.

 

Do limited companies in Thailand, for example, have much stricter rules than other countries on what can be put in the articles of association for a company? I know in England, for example, it's common to register the purpose of your business as a "general trading company" to grant as much flexibility in your dealings as possible. Or is there some other rule or regulation which would prevent this on a legal or practical basis.

 

Over to you, Team AseanNow.

[FritsSikkink]

Yes you can:

One of the most common types of foreign-owned company structures used in Thailand is a Thai Limited Company. This type of business structure is simple and the business organization can engage in a wide range of activities. Company Registration in Thailand (juslaws.com)

[JayClay]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Yes you can:

One of the most common types of foreign-owned company structures used in Thailand is a Thai Limited Company. This type of business structure is simple and the business organization can engage in a wide range of activities. Company Registration in Thailand (juslaws.com)

Thanks for the link, but it doesn't really focus on the detail of the question. I've read the same thing time and time again on various websites which all indicate it should be possible. But I've never heard anything about it being done in the manner described in the OP, which lead me to believe that there must be some reason this isn't in fact a practical solution.

[FritsSikkink]

38 minutes ago, JayClay said:

Thanks for the link, but it doesn't really focus on the detail of the question. I've read the same thing time and time again on various websites which all indicate it should be possible. But I've never heard anything about it being done in the manner described in the OP, which lead me to believe that there must be some reason this isn't in fact a practical solution.

It does: the business organization can engage in a wide range of activities.

My quess on why it doesn't happen often is that there is a huge difference being a freelancer with a specific skill and actually running a proper business.

Edited February 6, 2023 by FritsSikkink

[AustinRacing]

On the work permit it specifies the company name, job title and in the application it specifies the task and the reason for employment. I think (not sure) that you can’t obtain a work permit for yourself relating to bakery or other forms of work that  are reserved for Thais. 

[JayClay]

10 minutes ago, AustinRacing said:

On the work permit it specifies the company name, job title and in the application it specifies the task and the reason for employment. I think (not sure) that you can’t obtain a work permit for yourself relating to bakery or other forms of work that  are reserved for Thais. 

Sure I get that. But the work permit would have nothing to do with the bakery (or coffee shop or whatever) side of the business. The work permit would be for the other half of the business.

 

The "bakery" is just there so that the overall business has enough total Thai employees for the business to qualify for a work permit for a foreigner. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by JayClay

[Freddy42OZ]

The company can pretty much engage in any business. 

The work permit specifies what job each employee has and is there so you are approved for that job, however unless you were hired and a graphic designer and the company decided to send you out to work their stall in a shopping mall (not allowed obviously but used as an example) no one is checking whether you only do graphic design or if you sometimes write sales reports. 

Immigration don't have the time or the manpower to send people to every office or workplace checking what employees are doing. 

Set up a Bakery and you'll need a designer for all their marketing materials and the website, web guy to build and maintain the company website, marketing person to come up with marketing ideas, you'll need a videographer for their Tik Tok videos, you'll need an SEO person for generating web traffic, a Facebook Ads person, an IG Ads person.....  I could probably think of a few more people you'd want in a proper web site team.....  

So that's a Bakery with at least 7 staff doing non bakery tasks. 





 

[JayClay]

1 minute ago, Freddy42OZ said:

So that's a Bakery with at least 7 staff doing non bakery tasks. 

I really don't think you're understanding the question.

 

42 minutes ago, JayClay said:

The "bakery" is just there so that the overall business has enough total Thai employees for the business to qualify for a work permit for a foreigner. 

Firstly the "bakery" (as we seem to have decided on) is a loss-leader. It doesn't have to make any money so it doesn't have to engage in all the activities mentioned above. It's basically a room underneath a house with a few cakes for sale!

 

Secondly, do you seriously think all small businesses employ web designers and social media hounds? Of course not; they contract other businesses to do that work for them. Even if they did want to employ people in those positions directly for some reason, there's no reason that they couldn't be Thai.

[Freddy42OZ]

11 minutes ago, JayClay said:

I really don't think you're understanding the question.

 

Firstly the "bakery" (as we seem to have decided on) is a loss-leader. It doesn't have to make any money so it doesn't have to engage in all the activities mentioned above. It's basically a room underneath a house with a few cakes for sale!

 

Secondly, do you seriously think all small businesses employ web designers and social media hounds? Of course not; they contract other businesses to do that work for them. Even if they did want to employ people in those positions directly for some reason, there's no reason that they couldn't be Thai.

I don't think you understood the point of my post. 

Immigration are not going to question what jobs you want people to do, just that the job is appropriate to hire a farang. 

If you are going to start a business just to stay here you might as well do one that will make money.

I presume you are under 50 and that is why you care about a WP.