Spin Off From "story Of My Thai Citizenship Application" Thread

[BAF]

No, you don't.

You are just repeating random parts of your same old arguments to which I have already replied (to you and others) several times on this very thread.

I have suggested you go back and address (point by point) the replies that you had already got from me here and which you have left and are still leaving unanswered.

If I don't get what you believe, then can you summarise what you want me to answer? 10 pages and you have a fair idea of what questions are left hanging; this is something I have no read in its entirity, so I cannot be sure what has and hasn't be answered.

You know, reading first the thread you are going to post tens of replies in helps "somewhat" to understand it...

Simply summarise you main questions, and I'll have a shot :-) Cheers.

Here is a little trick for you (I see you aren't very experienced in using online message boards): use (after you actually read the thread, possibly) the search function and look for BAF's posts in this thread containing the keywords "QUOTE(steveromagnino" then hit the "reply" button and address my replies to your posts POINT BY POINT.

HTH

P.S. May I stress again the importance of answering my replies POINT BY POINT?

[longway]

ONE thing i Strongly Disagree ! Thailand IS NOT your Third World country !! i choose to spend my time here, because it's SAFE, VERY WELL DEVELOPED , also can make good living ! Now i've been in over 50 countries, and could live in UK for example, but i consider There to be a third world, NOT HERE.. You've got more beggars bums & poverty in ANY EU country, than here.. here people have more dignity than that . Hey none of us would be here IF it was SOOO bad eh ..

yes its amazing how good it is in some ways compared to many other countries. its also amazing how many foreigners can live and work in this the most evil xenophobic country in the world in complete safety. buit shit they make you report to an immigration officer every 3 months, yeah its pure hel_l.

[asiaworld]

ONE thing i Strongly Disagree ! Thailand IS NOT your Third World country !! i choose to spend my time here, because it's SAFE, VERY WELL DEVELOPED , also can make good living ! Now i've been in over 50 countries, and could live in UK for example, but i consider There to be a third world, NOT HERE.. You've got more beggars bums & poverty in ANY EU country, than here.. here people have more dignity than that . Hey none of us would be here IF it was SOOO bad eh ..

yes its amazing how good it is in some ways compared to many other countries. its also amazing how many foreigners can live and work in this the most evil xenophobic country in the world in complete safety. buit shit they make you report to an immigration officer every 3 months, yeah its pure hel_l.

Aah is that all that make Thailand Immi.system unique , oh i must be in paradise than Look if u know anything about other countries residency visas, you'll see, that thai system is completely ANTIQUE, straight from the stoneage//oupss my bad only frm abt 50yrs ago // seriously COMPARE to what other countries <in ASEAN or further away got>

now that's worrying

[longway]

ONE thing i Strongly Disagree ! Thailand IS NOT your Third World country !! i choose to spend my time here, because it's SAFE, VERY WELL DEVELOPED , also can make good living ! Now i've been in over 50 countries, and could live in UK for example, but i consider There to be a third world, NOT HERE.. You've got more beggars bums & poverty in ANY EU country, than here.. here people have more dignity than that . Hey none of us would be here IF it was SOOO bad eh ..

yes its amazing how good it is in some ways compared to many other countries. its also amazing how many foreigners can live and work in this the most evil xenophobic country in the world in complete safety. buit shit they make you report to an immigration officer every 3 months, yeah its pure hel_l.

Aah is that all that make Thailand Immi.system unique , oh i must be in paradise than Look if u know anything about other countries residency visas, you'll see, that thai system is completely ANTIQUE, straight from the stoneage//oupss my bad only frm abt 50yrs ago // seriously COMPARE to what other countries <in ASEAN or further away got>

now that's worrying

so how does this make thailand the most xenophobic country on earth? this and coz 80% say they dont think migration is a good idea. or is this xenophobia a new chinese-thai import

do you fear walking down the street coz u will be targeted by on of these super xenophobic thais? will they set your house on fire in a moo-baan?

show me a 3rd world country that doesnt treat its migrant workers like shit.

[asiaworld]

First : THailand is NOT a third world ! Second lets see, take Korea 10 years back 99% of koreans didn't speak english,

Kimpo airport included, didn't wanted anything to do with foreigners etc. Come soccer cup2002 people started learning , also country > Most homogenous in the world !! Suddenly started to change, gave citizenship to Guus Hiddnik , "INVENTED" PR for long stay foreigners, srarted to adress the kids from mixed families etc.

Thais are a smart lot , teach'em good, they learn good teach'em bad .. ouch .. read my previous post to samran ^^

[BAF]

tbh i find u a dreamer. you seem to able to hold to opinons with a 100% pure cast iron certainty from what is a very uncertain complictated world.

I am here to DISCUSS my opinions and that's what I do when I point-by-point reply others' posts offering my counter-arguments to theirs, like I am doing here now.

Where are your counter-arguments to my several-times-repeated-bolded-and-underlined points?

i honestly beleive you are a naive, short sighted and self centred child. are 13 yo? you need to grow up.

And I honestly believe that repeating ad nauseam the same old, confuted and disproved points without addressing the counter-arguments which confuted and disproved them is way beyond childish, it's plainly stupid.

So why there are MANY countries with BOTH lower and higher (and some with much lower and much higher) GDP per capita and far easier immigration laws than Thailand?

i will tell u again thailand is not NOT the most xenophobic country in the world. just read the news, look around, open your eyes, its almost blidingly obvious.

Since it's clear you are not going to answer it, I won't ask you yet again why there are MANY countries with BOTH lower and higher (and some with much lower and much higher) GDP per capita and far easier immigration laws than Thailand (which was your explanation for Thailand's immigration laws) but, seeing what you write above, I ask: do you speak Thai well enough to get most of what is said on TV or around you (not TO YOU)?

its amazing that i live in the most xenophobic country in the world and it just doesnt affect me. i spent 2 days in east germany and it was blindinly obvious how racist they are.

my 13yo cousin in russia (half chinese and half indian) got set upon in broad daylight by 3 grown men who beat him senseless.

How Russia's GDP per capita compare to Thailand's?

i dont give a flying ###### that 'immigration rules' are a bit easier. its a shit place for foreigners, whereas thailand is not.

OK, it's clear that getting across the point that Russia is a worse place for foreigners than Thailand is for some reason very important to you but can we get back to the fact that there are VERY MANY countries of whatever economic status with far welcoming immigration laws than Thailand and thus you can't explain Thailand's xenophobic immigration laws with its economic condition alone??

Edited August 7, 2007 by BAF

[BAF]

So it's not xenophobia, racism and classism if it's not directed towards us eh..?

if your going to embark on a campaign about improving the lot of these guys then im with you. if your going to go into acontextual whine about how unfair immigration rules for you. kiss my ass.

I was just asking you if you still call xenophobia, racism and classism as such when they are not directed at you...

As usual I haven't got an answer, just a gayish sounding request to kiss your ass.

when you were in thailand did you actually ever pull your head out of your ass long enough to see where you were. you are in a poor 3rd world country beset by a myriad of problems. this petty bs about unfairness of immigration rules is just pointless and stupid.

Much poorer countries than Thailand have far more welcoming immigration laws but sadly you are too busy thinking about asses to acknowledge this cold hard fact which has been spoon-fed to you...

Besides, if their condition was so dire, wouldn't letting in rich foreigners with 20 times the Thai average monthly income benefit their economy? In fact, aren't they still trying to attract (rich) tourists?

(This is another one of my unanswered points so I guess it will just fly once again over your head, or your ass)

Edited August 7, 2007 by BAF

[longway]

First : THailand is NOT a third world ! Second lets see, take Korea 10 years back 99% of koreans didn't speak english,

Kimpo airport included, didn't wanted anything to do with foreigners etc. Come soccer cup2002 people started learning , also country > Most homogenous in the world !! Suddenly started to change, gave citizenship to Guus Hiddnik , "INVENTED" PR for long stay foreigners, srarted to adress the kids from mixed families etc.

Thais are a smart lot , teach'em good, they learn good teach'em bad .. ouch .. read my previous post to samran ^^

3rd world is a technical term coined by nehru for countries that were not aligned to any power bloc. when i say 3rd world i mean that thailand has many problems, ie govt still prone to coups, lack of effective and transparent laws or basic justice, no standardised healthcare available to most citizens.

im not saying that the place is that bad, but has far to go before it can compare to places like poland, hungary , or perhaps turkey or even malaysia and so on, which i would thionk of as second world in the context we are talking in.

[longway]

Much poorer countries than Thailand have far more welcoming immigration laws but sadly you are too busy thinking about asses to acknowledge this cold hard fact which has been spoon-fed to you...

how does this make thailand the most xenophobic country in the world and why does it mean that thailand should have the same immigration policies as italy.

can thailand improve its immigration regs? yes. to what standard? who decides? not you thats for sure.

look at the top 20 in gdp per capita. look at the bottom 20. guess which ones have fairer immigration laws.

[BAF]

Much poorer countries than Thailand have far more welcoming immigration laws but sadly you are too busy thinking about asses to acknowledge this cold hard fact which has been spoon-fed to you...

how does this make thailand the most xenophobic country in the world and why does it mean that thailand should have the same immigration policies as italy.

can thailand improve its immigration regs? yes. to what standard? who decides? not you thats for sure.

look at the top 20 in gdp per capita. look at the bottom 20. guess which ones have fairer immigration laws.

I am beginning to understand why you have chosen that screen name.

[Heng]

Just because the local immigration system doesn't like you doesn't mean there is anything xenophobic about it. No more xenophobic than pre-1950's America was to blacks or UK to Indians during colonial times, etc. It's just preferences and sour grapes (yours).

I guess you're saying that Americans should still be treating blacks like they were pre-'50s and Brits treating Indians like they were during the colonial time...

Anyway, I have already said that I agree on this one (actually it was one of the most important points I have made): let's treat them like they treat us (RECIPROCATION) and see whose "preferences and sour grapes" is...

For starters, you wouldn't be holding a US Green Card

What I'm saying is that whoever mentioned 'xenophobia' wasn't correct. Mostly because there are plenty of foreigners who are living here permanently (and legally). It's more accurately 'discrimination' and just an 'unfair' system.

Have yet to have a green card, but I do have three passports. The third was optional... I chose a country whose requirements I met, and applied for citizenship. If I picked one where I didn't meet the requirements but for some reason put down roots there anyway, I'd probably be whinging about it from another country as well.

[samran]

i see u're being drown in blind anger BAF , not helpful . Instead lets employ our most prominent (as u say thai apologist) THIS post is for you SAMRAN ( & maybe also heng??) . You can give good advise & sometimes reproof ! But look @ yourselves : you're in that very special 'luk kreung' category . Samran i've red what happened to your mother,

good for you , you had OZ to accept & naturalise your family !! But look at all these disgrunted posters from the point of them being fathers of thai kids !! HOW would you feel IF YOUR family would not be allowed to stay together !! IF YOUR FATHER WOULD BE CONSIDERED ALIEN, or somewhat better than a monkey in eyes of people .. Now that could even make U hate Thailand .. . ouch !! So why don't you guys use your newly obtained Thainess in order to influense & change the mindset of people here, also government , now that could bring some result .. I bet your father still has nothing more than Ozzy ppt sad..

you would be entirely 100% correct if it was that I was my own special category.

Fact of the matter is, I work with a Farang start up company who are doing extremely well here. All foreigners delivering a service that is needed for Thai clients. I interviewed very recently with an Australian firm which is setting itself up here.

My former boss is an Australian with PR who set himself up here and now is earning in the vicinity of $20K per month independently consulting. Some very good English friends of mine started off as teachers, didn't whore about and get (too pissed) and made a packet working hard and invested in property back in the UK. They are about to 'retire' in their late 30's with an income stream of 2000 pounds a month from a couple of rental properties in the UK that they bought from their Thai earnings which they own outright. They too will apply for PR shortly so they can 'retire'.

I know far, far too many farangs and other SE Asians who have set themselves up here successfully to fall for the crapola that Thailand is anti anyone when push comes to shove. If you have a skill that is needed here (and is valued), you are more than able to do well. The rules aren't the easiest in the world, but nor are they the hardest. But they are specifically designed to attract people who can make a contribution to the country, which is the main reason you have an immigraition programme. I hate to say it, but if Thailand had liberalised its rules especially for marriage, Thailand would be innundated with no-hoper losers keen to shack up with the first Nana princess they could find.

Fact of the matter is that not all of us are made for migrating. A good percentage of migrants to Australia for instance return home in the first year. They just don't fit in. Same with Thailand. Some people can't hack it here and return home. They like to blame the 'rules' for discriminating against them, but the fact of the matter is that even if there were no rules, most of them wouldn't be able to earn enough money to live here anyway, so they'd go back to where they can.

And as you bought my old man in to this, well, he 'only' has an Aust passport cause he's never lived anywhere else long enough to qualify. And he's worked in a few places.

[BAF]

3rd world is a technical term coined by nehru for countries that were not aligned to any power bloc. when i say 3rd world i mean that thailand has many problems, ie govt still prone to coups, lack of effective and transparent laws or basic justice, no standardised healthcare available to most citizens.

im not saying that the place is that bad, but has far to go before it can compare to places like poland, hungary , or perhaps turkey or even malaysia and so on, which i would thionk of as second world in the context we are talking in.

Go get a clue: Is Thailand A 3rd World Country Still?

[BAF]

you would be entirely 100% correct if it was that I was my own special category.

Fact of the matter is, I work with a Farang start up company who are doing extremely well here. All foreigners delivering a service that is needed for Thai clients. I interviewed very recently with an Australian firm which is setting itself up here.

My former boss is an Australian with PR who set himself up here and now is earning in the vicinity of $20K per month independently consulting. Some very good English friends of mine started off as teachers, didn't whore about and get (too pissed) and made a packet working hard and invested in property back in the UK. They are about to 'retire' in their late 30's with an income stream of 2000 pounds a month from a couple of rental properties in the UK that they bought from their Thai earnings which they own outright. They too will apply for PR shortly so they can 'retire'.

I know far, far too many farangs and other SE Asians who have set themselves up here successfully to fall for the crapola that Thailand is anti anyone when push comes to shove. If you have a skill that is needed here (and is valued), you are more than able to do well. The rules aren't the easiest in the world, but nor are they the hardest. But they are specifically designed to attract people who can make a contribution to the country, which is the main reason you have an immigraition programme. I hate to say it, but if Thailand had liberalised its rules especially for marriage, Thailand would be innundated with no-hoper losers keen to shack up with the first Nana princess they could find.

Fact of the matter is that not all of us are made for migrating. A good percentage of migrants to Australia for instance return home in the first year. They just don't fit in. Same with Thailand. Some people can't hack it here and return home. They like to blame the 'rules' for discriminating against them, but the fact of the matter is that even if there were no rules, most of them wouldn't be able to earn enough money to live here anyway, so they'd go back to where they can.

And as you bought my old man in to this, well, he 'only' has an Aust passport cause he's never lived anywhere else long enough to qualify. And he's worked in a few places.

asiaworld asked you: HOW would you feel IF YOUR family would not be allowed to stay together?

I see no answer to that in what you wrote above. Do you, asiaworld?

[samran]

I'd feel crap of course.

But, thats not the real question is it?

Since when has Thailand stopped families from staying together? Non-O visas are available to all members of the family. They just aren't extendable unless you and our partner earn a combined income of over 40K per month. How do you prove 40K, you pay tax on it of course... If you don't have 40K, you do what some do...a visa run and get another non O in Penang or Vientienne. Not ideal, but it is hardly the stuff of tearing apart families. IMHO I think the 40K rule is a great one in the sense as it sets a bar for people to think about...and makes them ask the question "can I survive in Thailand".

I don't buy the line that "I'm not allowed to work here cause the rules don't allow me". That is absloute rubbish. Sunbelt (our sponsors) have made a business in showing foreigners who can't figure out the rules how to get legal and stay legal.

[lannarebirth]

So BAF, you're in Italy, adjacent to Switzerland. Switzerland even has an Italian speaking canton. How easy is it to emigrate there?

[samran]

So BAF, you're in Italy, adjacent to Switzerland. Switzerland even has an Italian speaking canton. How easy is it to emigrate there?

easy for him as he is an EU citizen.

If I was to? Forgetabout it. Not EU....pretty hard, though they'll let you in as a foreign worker to do the jobs that the locals can't....a bit like Thailand. Then I'd have to live there for 12 years and speak the language fluently before they'd let me naturalise.

[longway]

Much poorer countries than Thailand have far more welcoming immigration laws but sadly you are too busy thinking about asses to acknowledge this cold hard fact which has been spoon-fed to you...

how does this make thailand the most xenophobic country in the world and why does it mean that thailand should have the same immigration policies as italy.

can thailand improve its immigration regs? yes. to what standard? who decides? not you thats for sure.

look at the top 20 in gdp per capita. look at the bottom 20. guess which ones have fairer immigration laws.

I am beginning to understand why you have chosen that screen name.

ok for the last time. just because thailand has stupid immigration laws does not mean that the thais are the most xenophobic/racist on earth. in fact countries with 'better' immigration regs can be more xenophobic.

and again why should thailand's laws be the same as italy's? there's a case to match cambodia, vietnam, malaysia as theirs are supposed to be that much better. but to be like italy? the countries are far too different in too many ways.

[lannarebirth]

So BAF, you're in Italy, adjacent to Switzerland. Switzerland even has an Italian speaking canton. How easy is it to emigrate there?

easy for him as he is an EU citizen.

If I was to? Forgetabout it. Not EU....pretty hard, though they'll let you in as a foreign worker to do the jobs that the locals can't....a bit like Thailand. Then I'd have to live there for 12 years and speak the language fluently before they'd let me naturalise.

I don't believe Switzerland is in the EU. That would be a big step down for it if it were. It's seperatness is what defines it.

The point is, it's far from a 3rd world country and it's got some of the toughest immigration policies anywhere. Those foreigners you see working there are all on timed visas. There's no residency payoff coming for them.

[samran]

So BAF, you're in Italy, adjacent to Switzerland. Switzerland even has an Italian speaking canton. How easy is it to emigrate there?

easy for him as he is an EU citizen.

If I was to? Forgetabout it. Not EU....pretty hard, though they'll let you in as a foreign worker to do the jobs that the locals can't....a bit like Thailand. Then I'd have to live there for 12 years and speak the language fluently before they'd let me naturalise.

I don't believe Switzerland is in the EU. That would be a big step down for it if it were. It's seperatness is what defines it.

The point is, it's far from a 3rd world country and it's got some of the toughest immigration policies anywhere. Those foreigners you see working there are all on timed visas. There's no residency payoff coming for them.

You are correct about Switzerland not being a member of the EU.

scouse will probably know this better than me, but after the Swiss rejected via referendum joining the EU, the EU and Switzerland ended up signing a FTA which included free movement of peoples. The Swiss are gradually lowering their barriers to EU'er as we speak, while many EU nations have scrapped restrictions on Swiss nationals all together. Clearly remember going back to the UK, the their are two lines at immigration. The long one for foreigners, and the other one for British Citizens, EU Nationals, EEA nationals, and Swiss passport holders. All of this latter category are not subject to immigration control in the EU.

BAF likes to bleat on about how he studies immigration rules. I study FTA's...

[asiaworld]

ok ok longway it's Not The Most Xenophobic country on earth, there are a few worse HellHoles in this diverse world . But what prevents it from getting better.. The point in the start of this thread was, which other (even 3rd world country) prevents spouses of its citizens from integrating into the society ..

[lannarebirth]

So BAF, you're in Italy, adjacent to Switzerland. Switzerland even has an Italian speaking canton. How easy is it to emigrate there?

easy for him as he is an EU citizen.

If I was to? Forgetabout it. Not EU....pretty hard, though they'll let you in as a foreign worker to do the jobs that the locals can't....a bit like Thailand. Then I'd have to live there for 12 years and speak the language fluently before they'd let me naturalise.

I don't believe Switzerland is in the EU. That would be a big step down for it if it were. It's seperatness is what defines it.

The point is, it's far from a 3rd world country and it's got some of the toughest immigration policies anywhere. Those foreigners you see working there are all on timed visas. There's no residency payoff coming for them.

You are correct about Switzerland not being a member of the EU.

scouse will probably know this better than me, but after the Swiss rejected via referendum joining the EU, the EU and Switzerland ended up signing a FTA which included free movement of peoples. The Swiss are gradually lowering their barriers to EU'er as we speak, while many EU nations have scrapped restrictions on Swiss nationals all together. Clearly remember going back to the UK, the their are two lines at immigration. The long one for foreigners, and the other one for British Citizens, EU Nationals, EEA nationals, and Swiss passport holders. All of this latter category are not subject to immigration control in the EU.

BAF likes to bleat on about how he studies immigration rules. I study FTA's...

Hey, that's good news. Locarno beckons.

[meemiathai]

Peter is the older brother of John. Peter has been born good looking and intelligent and is loved by everyone. Peter has always been good at studies and sports. He wins a lot of trophies and gets a lot of attention. He gets everything he wants and lives a very happy life. On the contrary, John was born ugly and not very bright. He does not get much attention. He knows about it and is not often very happy.

One day mom had a piece of chocolate. Yes just one piece. He saw John who seemed not very happy and gave it to him. Then suddenly Peter starts yelling and crying complaining how unfair it is and demands mom take away the chocolate from John.

Was Peter right? Yes I think Peter is 100% correct. But he is also a bloody spoilt brat!

[samran]

Hey, that's good news. Locarno beckons.

B@stard!! We like Luguano.

In a moment of insanity, wifey and I looked at buying a place in Zermatt. But....dah dum...we couldn't. You had to be resident there, and that pretty much meant being Swiss. Yes, Zermatt, dodgy outpost of the third world where foreigners are welcomed for their money and overpriced ski-tickets, and then told to sod off when you can't afford to be there any more.

ITS NOT FAIR DAMMIT!!!

[samran]

Peter is the older brother of John. Peter has been born good looking and intelligent and is loved by everyone. Peter has always been good at studies and sports. He wins a lot of trophies and gets a lot of attention. He gets everything he wants and lives a very happy life. On the contrary, John was born ugly and not very bright. He does not get much attention. He knows about it and is not often very happy.

One day mom had a piece of chocolate. Yes just one piece. He saw John who seemed not very happy and gave it to him. Then suddenly Peter starts yelling and crying complaining how unfair it is and demands mom take away the chocolate from John.

Was Peter right? Yes I think Peter is 100% correct. But he is also a bloody spoilt brat!

But I though life was like a box of chocoltates....now you are telling me it is like a piece of chocolate cake???

[meemiathai]

BAF, just a side note, have a look at how your people treat Asians and blacks. You might have laws in Italy trying to make things look fair. But probably in reality people in your country suffer from racism more than farangs in thailand?

I have been to Italy twice and both times had very bad experiences. Both times I went with Asians.

Not at all saying all Italians are like that.

[samran]

BAF, just a side note, have a look at how your people treat Asians and blacks. You might have laws in Italy trying to make things look fair. But probably in reality people in your country suffer from racism more than farangs in thailand?

I have been to Italy twice and both times had very bad experiences. Both times I went with Asians.

Not at all saying all Italians are like that.

Yes I had a terrible time there as well. A girl I used to see broke my heart there. And the last time I was there driving, I got lost cause the roads were terrible and the signs were all in Italian. A Venetian gondalier wanted to charge me $200 for a 30 minute ride around the block (more than 2 times my hourly charge out rate...how dare he...) and I'm sure the Uffizi galary has dual pricing, one for EU'ers and another for foriegners.

Xenaphobic, and I'm sure it has something to do with the immigration rules.

[longway]

ok ok longway it's Not The Most Xenophobic country on earth, there are a few worse HellHoles in this diverse world . But what prevents it from getting better.. The point in the start of this thread was, which other (even 3rd world country) prevents spouses of its citizens from integrating into the society ..

there are dozens of worse places on this earth. all i am trying to say is that xenophobia found in thailand is nothing special. are thais racist and xenophobic? answer yes. but just in the same way as most people in the world are.

you got people committing genocide on other races as we speak, but no thailand is the most xenophobic coz its immigration laws are daft.

somebody said something about swiss immigration laws being tough, does this make them more racist than the french, whose laws are supposed to be easier.

[meemiathai]

BAF, just a side note, have a look at how your people treat Asians and blacks. You might have laws in Italy trying to make things look fair. But probably in reality people in your country suffer from racism more than farangs in thailand?

I have been to Italy twice and both times had very bad experiences. Both times I went with Asians.

Not at all saying all Italians are like that.

Yes I had a terrible time there as well. A girl I used to see broke my heart there. And the last time I was there driving, I got lost cause the roads were terrible and the signs were all in Italian. A Venetian gondalier wanted to charge me $200 for a 30 minute ride around the block (more than 2 times my hourly charge out rate...how dare he...) and I'm sure the Uffizi galary has dual pricing, one for EU'ers and another for foriegners.

Xenaphobic, and I'm sure it has something to do with the immigration rules.

Don't get me started on telling the rip offs they had on me in Turin!

And services was a bloody joke!

And you know what? They had double pricing there!!!!!! Can you believe it? Locals were charged less! And they complain when they are in thailand!

[meemiathai]

BAF, just a side note, have a look at how your people treat Asians and blacks. You might have laws in Italy trying to make things look fair. But probably in reality people in your country suffer from racism more than farangs in thailand?

I have been to Italy twice and both times had very bad experiences. Both times I went with Asians.

Not at all saying all Italians are like that.

Yes I had a terrible time there as well. A girl I used to see broke my heart there. And the last time I was there driving, I got lost cause the roads were terrible and the signs were all in Italian. A Venetian gondalier wanted to charge me $200 for a 30 minute ride around the block (more than 2 times my hourly charge out rate...how dare he...) and I'm sure the Uffizi galary has dual pricing, one for EU'ers and another for foriegners.

Xenaphobic, and I'm sure it has something to do with the immigration rules.

Don't get me started on telling the rip offs they had on me in Turin!

And services was a bloody joke!

And you know what? They had double pricing there!!!!!! Can you believe it? Locals were charged less! And they complain when they are in thailand!

Silly me! I only realized when I reread your post, you did mention dual pricing!! 55555555555