This state is using a revolutionary solution to protect itself from droughts — and the results could be staggering

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California is covering irrigation canals with solar panels to combat severe droughts while creating cleaner, cheaper energy for the state.

The $20 million smart solar panel project, dubbed Project Nexus, is being built over three sections of Turlock Irrigation District (TID) canals, located about 90 miles southeast of Sacramento. The project is being spearheaded by Solar AquaGrid, which has partnered with Citizen Group and TID.

https://news.yahoo.com/state-using-revolutionary-solution-protect-113000609.html

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One additional benefit not mentioned in the article is that the water in the canal will keep the solar panels cooler. They function better when it's not too hot.

Edited August 4, 2023 by placeholder

[BritManToo]

A more green solution would be to prohibit people living/developing/building homes in arid/desert areas.

Nothing green about irrigation.

[ozimoron]

40 minutes ago, placeholder said:

One additional benefit not mentioned in the article is that the water in the canal will keep the solar panels cooler. They function better when it's not too hot.

In addition to providing water in the immediate vicinity to clean each panel. Brilliant idea.

[thaibeachlovers]

Saudi was researching solar power way back in the 90s. What took California so long to do something like this?

[placeholder]

On 8/5/2023 at 5:36 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Saudi was researching solar power way back in the 90s. What took California so long to do something like this?

Just possibly, it might have something to do with the cost. In 1995 the price of a solar cell was $5.50 per watt of capacity.  In 2020 the cost was $0.20 per watt.

https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/evolution-of-solar-pv-module-cost-by-data-source-1970-2020

 

[KhunLA]

People & politicians may actually be waking up, and had enough of the fossil fuel control over energy production.

 

They could use a moratorium on the influx of non Californians, as the water table has already been deleted beyond what is needed or replenish-able... IMHO

 

Better late than never ... although I'm not one to wait for others.

 

What's that saying .... 'Just Do It'

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

Edited August 6, 2023 by KhunLA

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

People & politicians may actually be waking up, and had enough of the fossil fuel control over energy production.

 

Better late than never ... although I'm not one to wait for others.

 

What's that saying .... 'Just Do It'

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

C'mon. Everyone knows that Small Oil is defenseless against the predatory power of Big Green.

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

C'mon. Everyone knows that Small Oil is defenseless against the predatory power of Big Green.

Yea ... about 100 yrs wasted not fixing an easy problem to see & fix.  Oops, the cost of laziness & convenience while one's head is in the sand.

 

Strange that it's only changing now, due to the household's economics.  People finally waking up to, alternative fuels, are cheaper, and should /can be available, just have to ask/demand that they are made available.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Yea ... about 100 yrs wasted not fixing an easy problem to see & fix.  Oops, the cost of laziness & convenience while one's head is in the sand.

 

Strange that it's only changing now, due to the household's economics.  People finally waking up to, alternative fuels, are cheaper, and should /can be available, just have to ask/demand that they are made available.

Seems to me that you are fixated on western economies, yet the real problem is with countries like India and those in Africa that have no hope of changing to your dream of battery cars and solar panels. As long as their populations expand rapidly, IMO there is no hope of doing anything meaningful other than virtue signalling.

I didn't include China, as they can be forced to change by the dictators in power, but I never want to live in that sort of country.

 

Any "solution" has to be global and not just in western countries.

 

BTW, given the use of rare minerals in your dream cars, the chance of them replacing simple tech ICEs is IMO a pipe dream.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Yea ... about 100 yrs wasted not fixing an easy problem to see & fix.  Oops, the cost of laziness & convenience while one's head is in the sand.

I have zero idea what you are saying. In 1923, transistors hadn't been invented, horses were still a major transport option, and computers were clever people that did maths.

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems to me that you are fixated on western economies, yet the real problem is with countries like India and those in Africa that have no hope of changing to your dream of battery cars and solar panels. As long as their populations expand rapidly, IMO there is no hope of doing anything meaningful other than virtue signalling.

I didn't include China, as they can be forced to change by the dictators in power, but I never want to live in that sort of country.

 

Any "solution" has to be global and not just in western countries.

 

BTW, given the use of rare minerals in your dream cars, the chance of them replacing simple tech ICEs is IMO a pipe dream.

World has been dependent on fossil fuel for 100 or so years.  The industry controls that, and only now it's changing, very slightly and slowly.

 

Lithium is not rare, and estimates are, we won't be running out anytime soon.  More fossil fuel propaganda.  But hey, what do I know, so I post links, ignored of course.

 

I posted a link a couple times, about a vid explaining fossil fuels control, and been ignore, or criticize as tin foil hat material.  

 

People falling for the BS, hook line & sinker, when the info is available.  Oh well.

 

You're one of the more open minded, reasonable members, so give this a watch.  Get pass the opening, as it's not about UFOs/ET, but energy control.  It's available now, but, not until the oil runs out

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does 

Edited August 7, 2023 by KhunLA

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, KhunLA said:

World has been dependent on fossil fuel for 100 or so years.  The industry controls that, and only now it's changing, very slightly and slowly.

 

Lithium is not rare, and estimates are, we won't be running out anytime soon.  More fossil fuel propaganda.  But hey, what do I know, so I post links, ignored of course.

 

I posted a link a couple times, about a vid explaining fossil fuels control, and been ignore, or criticize as tin foil hat material.  

 

People falling for the BS, hook line & sinker, when the info is available.  Oh well.

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does 

I wasn't referring to lithium, but to rare earth metals which are apparently essential for battery cars and windmills. Look at which country controls much of them.

 

Yes, the human world has been dependent on fossil fuels since the early 20th century, and they allowed us to progress beyond horse, steam and wind power. I for one am grateful that they gave me a far, far better life than my ancestors ever had.

 

Also, IMO battery cars are a dead end in the way that Beta VCRs were. Hydrogen and nuclear IMO are far better options in our current state of technology than battery cars and windmills.

[KhunLA]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Also, IMO battery cars are a dead end in the way that Beta VCRs were. Hydrogen and nuclear IMO are far better options in our current state of technology than battery cars and windmills.

Going to just have to agree to disagree.  EVs are the way to go.  Hydrogen isn't practical, IMHO, maybe replace diesel for heavy, long haul trucking, until something better comes along, but it comes with the same negatives of energy wasted to produce, store, transport, deliver and use as diesel, but cleaner.

 

Better batteries and source of energy to charge, mainly solar, where possible, when allowed, is the only solution now.

 

You need to download and watch the movie I linked.  As long as fossil fuel controls the worlds energy supply, there isn't much hope for real change.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, KhunLA said:

Going to just have to agree to disagree.  EVs are the way to go.  Hydrogen isn't practical, IMHO, maybe replace diesel for heavy, long haul trucking, until something better comes along, but it comes with the same negatives of energy wasted to produce, store, transport, deliver and use as diesel, but cleaner.

 

Better batteries and source of energy to charge, mainly solar, where possible, when allowed, is the only solution now.

 

You need to download and watch the movie I linked.  As long as fossil fuel controls the worlds energy supply, there isn't much hope for real change.

My contention is that it just isn't possible for many poor countries with large and rapidly getting larger populations to go to EVs. Far too expensive and they don't have the infrastructure to charge them or qualified people to fix them.

I hope you are not suggesting that we pay for them to get such.

 

Petrol/ diesel will remain the motive power for decades to come for most people IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

it comes with the same negatives of energy wasted to produce, store, transport, deliver and use as diesel, but cleaner.

NZ had a practical and efficient reticulation system of underground pipes for CNG some decades ago. No reason why it should be different for hydrogen.

Use solar and wind to power the conversion of water to hydrogen/ oxygen.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't referring to lithium, but to rare earth metals which are apparently essential for battery cars and windmills. Look at which country controls much of them.

 

Yes, the human world has been dependent on fossil fuels since the early 20th century, and they allowed us to progress beyond horse, steam and wind power. I for one am grateful that they gave me a far, far better life than my ancestors ever had.

 

Also, IMO battery cars are a dead end in the way that Beta VCRs were. Hydrogen and nuclear IMO are far better options in our current state of technology than battery cars and windmills.

You're grateful to fossil fuels? I''m sure there were some folk in the 19th century who were grateful to their horses and refused to get on a train. You think sentimentalism is a rational argument.

 

As for hydrogen and nuclear. Right now they're both very expensive, although there is good reason to believe that hydrogen can soon become competitive with natural gas. But nuclear is inherently very costly. And you seem unable to acknowledge the collapse in price of both wind and solar powered energy.

 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems to me that you are fixated on western economies, yet the real problem is with countries like India and those in Africa that have no hope of changing to your dream of battery cars and solar panels. As long as their populations expand rapidly, IMO there is no hope of doing anything meaningful other than virtue signalling.

I didn't include China, as they can be forced to change by the dictators in power, but I never want to live in that sort of country.

 

Any "solution" has to be global and not just in western countries.

 

BTW, given the use of rare minerals in your dream cars, the chance of them replacing simple tech ICEs is IMO a pipe dream.

So much make no sense here. Solar electricity is cheaper to generate than coal powered electricity. Given that these counties enjoy abundant sunlight, why wouldn't solar panels make sense. As for EV's. The price of EVs is declining rapidly as is invariably the case with new technology. For example

 

A CHINESE COMPANY IS RELEASING AN ULTRA-CHEAP EV THAT COSTS LESS THAN ALMOST ANY NEW CAR IN AMERICA — HERE’S HOW THAT’S POSSIBLE

Electric vehicles (EVs) are about to get cheaper and more accessible around the world, as Chinese automotive company BYD has now created the most inexpensive EV in existence.

Dubbed the “Seagull,” the car was recently unveiled at the Shanghai auto show, and according to experts, it is expected to become China’s best-selling car, with 23,005 units sold in June alone. And with good reason: the basic Seagull model costs a mere 73,000 yuan (about $10,200 as of late July) and, with two available versions, travel 305 to 405 kilometers (about 190 to 252 miles) per charge, according to Reuters.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/byd-seagull-ev-cheap-electric-car/

 

In fact, EVs are no longer subsidized in China but their adoption has been increasing exponentially:

 

One in Four Cars Sold in China in 2022 Was an EV With BYD Powering Country’s Outperformance

China’s EV sales almost doubled in 2022 with 87% YoY growth.
BYD led the market, followed by GM Group, Tesla, Geely Holding and GAC Group.
China’s EV sales are expected to exceed 8 million units in 2023.

https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-ev-sales-2022/

 

And, despite their name, rare earth minerals aren't all that rare. And new deposits of commercially extractable ore are being located.

 

Swedish mining company discovers Europe's largest deposit of rare earth elements

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/01/13/swedish-mining-company-discovers-europes-largest-deposit-of-rare-earth-elements

 

Highest-grade rare earth deposit to date identified in the US

https://www.innovationnewsnetwork.com/highest-grade-rare-earth-deposit-to-date-identified-in-the-us/29539/

 

Rare Earth MRI discovery in Maine

https://www.metaltechnews.com/story/2022/11/16/mining-tech/rare-earth-mri-discovery-in-maine/1152.html

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/7/2023 at 3:14 PM, placeholder said:

You're grateful to fossil fuels? I''m sure there were some folk in the 19th century who were grateful to their horses and refused to get on a train. You think sentimentalism is a rational argument.

 

As for hydrogen and nuclear. Right now they're both very expensive, although there is good reason to believe that hydrogen can soon become competitive with natural gas. But nuclear is inherently very costly. And you seem unable to acknowledge the collapse in price of both wind and solar powered energy.

 

So much make no sense here. Solar electricity is cheaper to generate than coal powered electricity. Given that these counties enjoy abundant sunlight, why wouldn't solar panels make sense. As for EV's. The price of EVs is declining rapidly as is invariably the case with new technology. For example

 

A CHINESE COMPANY IS RELEASING AN ULTRA-CHEAP EV THAT COSTS LESS THAN ALMOST ANY NEW CAR IN AMERICA — HERE’S HOW THAT’S POSSIBLE

Electric vehicles (EVs) are about to get cheaper and more accessible around the world, as Chinese automotive company BYD has now created the most inexpensive EV in existence.

Dubbed the “Seagull,” the car was recently unveiled at the Shanghai auto show, and according to experts, it is expected to become China’s best-selling car, with 23,005 units sold in June alone. And with good reason: the basic Seagull model costs a mere 73,000 yuan (about $10,200 as of late July) and, with two available versions, travel 305 to 405 kilometers (about 190 to 252 miles) per charge, according to Reuters.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/byd-seagull-ev-cheap-electric-car/

 

In fact, EVs are no longer subsidized in China but their adoption has been increasing exponentially:

 

One in Four Cars Sold in China in 2022 Was an EV With BYD Powering Country’s Outperformance

China’s EV sales almost doubled in 2022 with 87% YoY growth.
BYD led the market, followed by GM Group, Tesla, Geely Holding and GAC Group.
China’s EV sales are expected to exceed 8 million units in 2023.

https://www.counterpointresearch.com/china-ev-sales-2022/

 

And, despite their name, rare earth minerals aren't all that rare. And new deposits of commercially extractable ore are being located.

 

Swedish mining company discovers Europe's largest deposit of rare earth elements

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/01/13/swedish-mining-company-discovers-europes-largest-deposit-of-rare-earth-elements

 

Highest-grade rare earth deposit to date identified in the US

https://www.innovationnewsnetwork.com/highest-grade-rare-earth-deposit-to-date-identified-in-the-us/29539/

 

Rare Earth MRI discovery in Maine

https://www.metaltechnews.com/story/2022/11/16/mining-tech/rare-earth-mri-discovery-in-maine/1152.html

 

I am aware that "rare earth minerals" are not rare, but they are so polluting to refine that western countries don't want to do that. Are you saying that poor countries should be polluted so western people can drive EVs?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I am aware that "rare earth minerals" are not rare, but they are so polluting to refine that western countries don't want to do that. Are you saying that poor countries should be polluted so western people can drive EVs?

Given this quote from you...

"BTW, given the use of rare minerals in your dream cars, the chance of them replacing simple tech ICEs is IMO a pipe dream."

your enlightenment must be of extremely recent date.

 

In my post I noted that reserves of rare earth have been found in the USA and Sweden and the hunt goes on.

Also, Tesla says it's next generation of vehicles won't be needing rare earths elements.

 

“As the world transitions to clean energy, the demand for rare earths is really increasing dramatically,” Mr Campbell told the investor day audience.

“Not only is going to be hard to meet that demand, but mining rare earths has environmental and health risks.”

“We have designed our next drive unit, which uses a permanent magnet motor, to not use any rare earth materials at all.”

https://smallcaps.com.au/tesla-eliminate-rare-earths-next-generation-electric-vehicles/

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/9/2023 at 12:15 PM, placeholder said:

Given this quote from you...

"BTW, given the use of rare minerals in your dream cars, the chance of them replacing simple tech ICEs is IMO a pipe dream."

your enlightenment must be of extremely recent date.

 

In my post I noted that reserves of rare earth have been found in the USA and Sweden and the hunt goes on.

Also, Tesla says it's next generation of vehicles won't be needing rare earths elements.

 

“As the world transitions to clean energy, the demand for rare earths is really increasing dramatically,” Mr Campbell told the investor day audience.

“Not only is going to be hard to meet that demand, but mining rare earths has environmental and health risks.”

“We have designed our next drive unit, which uses a permanent magnet motor, to not use any rare earth materials at all.”

https://smallcaps.com.au/tesla-eliminate-rare-earths-next-generation-electric-vehicles/

Given that electric cars were in use early 20th century, there never was a need for rare earth in EVs, but people do want all the toys now, don't they?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle

Crude electric carriages were first invented in the late 1820s and 1830s. Practical, commercially available electric vehicles appeared during the 1890s. An electric vehicle held the vehicular land speed record until around 1900.

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that electric cars were in use early 20th century, there never was a need for rare earth in EVs, but people do want all the toys now, don't they?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle

Crude electric carriages were first invented in the late 1820s and 1830s. Practical, commercially available electric vehicles appeared during the 1890s. An electric vehicle held the vehicular land speed record until around 1900.

Cherry picking much? Can you explain to me why you failed to include the this following sentence in your quote: 

 

"In the early 20th century, the high cost, low top speed, and short-range of battery electric vehicles, compared to internal combustion engine vehicles, led to a worldwide decline in their use as private motor vehicles."

 

Yours is a very sad attempt at subterfuge.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/10/2023 at 2:38 PM, placeholder said:

Cherry picking much? Can you explain to me why you failed to include the this following sentence in your quote: 

 

"In the early 20th century, the high cost, low top speed, and short-range of battery electric vehicles, compared to internal combustion engine vehicles, led to a worldwide decline in their use as private motor vehicles."

 

Yours is a very sad attempt at subterfuge.

I was waiting for your expected reply with the usual insult.

You think technology didn't make better motors and batteries in the past century?

 

Quote

Can you explain to me why you failed to include the this following sentence in your quote: End quote.

Can you count? How many sentences did I include in my link?

Can you read? I assume so, so read the last sentence of the rules, which you appear not to have read or understood.

 

27. You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Only post a link, the headline and three sentences from the article.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was waiting for your expected reply with the usual insult.

You think technology didn't make better motors and batteries in the past century?

 

Quote

Can you explain to me why you failed to include the this following sentence in your quote: End quote.

Can you count? How many sentences did I include in my link?

Can you read? I assume so, so read the last sentence of the rules, which you appear not to have read or understood.

 

27. You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Only post a link, the headline and three sentences from the article.

Are you referring to the 19th century? Or even the 20th century. Are you actually contending that motors and batteries were better back then than they are now? What exactly are your criteria?

 

As for defending your quote...that doesn't mean it wasn't misleading. And there's nothing stopping you from using your own words to acknowledge how your quotation was undercut by what followed, But given that it was undercut by what followed, who bother to cite it in the first place? Now it stands exposed as, at best, misleading.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

Are you referring to the 19th century? Or even the 20th century. Are you actually contending that motors and batteries were better back then than they are now? What exactly are your criteria?

 

As for defending your quote...that doesn't mean it wasn't misleading. And there's nothing stopping you from using your own words to acknowledge how your quotation was undercut by what followed, But given that it was undercut by what followed, who bother to cite it in the first place? Now it stands exposed as, at best, misleading.

Keep digging.

[placeholder]

25 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Keep digging.

Sure. Keep on defending the ridiculous proposition that batteries and motors were better over a hundred years ago then they are today.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

Sure. Keep on defending the ridiculous proposition that batteries and motors were better over a hundred years ago then they are today.

Just for you

 

Do you think technology didn't make better motors and batteries towards the end of the past century?

Given the advances in electric motor technology and in batteries, it would have been simple enough to make great electric powered vehicles, but ICE cars were efficient and didn't require lengthy charging times.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just for you

 

Do you think technology didn't make better motors and batteries towards the end of the past century?

Given the advances in electric motor technology and in batteries, it would have been simple enough to make great electric powered vehicles, but ICE cars were efficient and didn't require lengthy charging times.

It would have been simple back then to make great lead acid batteries. Did they have the technology back them to make lithium batteries? What are you on about?