Philippines Versus Thailand. Trip Report

[Soju]

Hands down, there's a much higher percentage of pretty Thai girls than Filipinas. All my Filipino male friends who've been to Thailand are even the ones who tell me that.

Have to totally agree with you on that one. Certainly beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and everyone has different tastes. So some guys may love the Filipinas, but for me, I could go for days on end and never see a single Filipina that I thought was attractive, much less beautiful. And most definitely not as slim on average compared to Thais. Lots of Thais and Filipinos look similar, especially many of the average or less attractive Thais look quite similar to Filipinos, IMHO. Most farang men I see in Thailand are with such less attractive Thais, at least to me, so my guess is that there are a lot of these farang men who would find Filipinas attractive. Overall, according to my tastes, I'd say that Thailand has about 10x the number of beautiful women per given sampling size when compared to the Philippines.

Everytime I visited the Philippines I was glad to return home. I enjoyed my brief vacations there, but the place and especially the people just really got on my nerves after a short time. I'm a pretty relaxed and easy going guy, but I don't think I could take much living there. Nothing to do with the Catholicism either. More to do with the rude and abrasive nature of Filipino personalities. Not everyone, but enough to affect my mood on most days. I'd recommend anyone thinking of moving there to first go for a brief period to see if it's right for you or not. Some people love it, but a lot of us do not. Perhaps if you stay there for a long period of time you will learn to live with the annoyances and they won't bother you.

The only place in SE Asia I enjoyed less than the Philippines was Indonesia. Bali was okay, but Jakarta makes Manila look good.

[jaideeguy]

This thread is 3 yrs old?? why the renued interest?/ maybe there are more of us [thai expats] looking for alternatives because of the new direction of the powers that want to control LOS and remove most of the positive reasons that we moved here..

Having lived 7 yrs in the Phil and 7 yrs in LOS, i feel qualified to put in my 2 pesos worth of opinion.........

I agree with most assessments posted so far and would still be in the Phil, if I had not discovered Thailand 12+ years ago. While living in the Phil, I used to make visa runs to LOS every 6 months....maybe I should call them visa/sanity runs because it is absolutely insane over there and comming to LOS was a nice inexpensive sanity break, then it became obvious that life here as a retired expat was so much more comfortable, and inexpensive [until i got married to a Thai and now have a couple of kids]. But, i think it can be said that here, you get [mostly] what you pay for...where in the Phil, we are fair game for the locals to rip off the foreigner [they call us 'hey joe' there]. lots more beggars, corruption on all levels, polution of air,water, land, but mostly confined to urban areas. once you escape the cities, it is another story...you can find pristine islands, a few native rainforests in the remote mountains where i lived for a couple of years, but with no tv, internet, fresh milk, decent bread etc.

and transportation is mostly painful, crude and slow. for example, it takes 8-10 hrs to travel 250 k from Manila to Baguio City and here it takes less time to travel 750 k from BKK to Chiang Mai. that's because of dreadful road conditions, poor infrastructure, natural calamities [avg. 26 major storms/ yr], no bypases around small towns that have bottlenecks. Inter island travel on the larger 'superferries' can be cheap, comfortable and fun and you can access most islands in the comfort of your own stateroom for small$$

Dangers are more real there as lots of guns, both in the hands of police/security guards but ordinary people like taxi drivers carry home made guns........but i only had a gun pointed at me once in 7 yrs. Common sense will keep you safe in most places and cities are the most dangerous, as is everywhere.

The women there can be as beautiful as Thai women....they are basicly the same stock, malay/chinese with a little extra Spanish and American to spice things up.......but the diference is 'maintenance'. the Thai women are definately better fed and maintain themselves better and are up on fashion, where the uniform of the day for Philipinas is [loose] t-shirt and jeans, not very flattering. Diet is terrible too, with too much grease. Another major difference between Filipinas and Thai women is that the Filipinas are much more romantic, where Thai women are practical. there are no illusions here

Another area where LOS is far ahead is food. Not only is food treated with more respect here from the market to the table, but it is always fresh and spicy. Where in the Phil, it is not respected from the market [where is is displayed with no ice and flies all over the meat] to the table where it is served and stored at room temperature....often, not hot or chilled under storage. And not much spices........... boring, greasy, and unfresh is the best description of Phil cuisine.

I do miss my friends in the Phil, where most speak some English and give you the illusion that they understand it. They are beautiful people and have big hearts, but most would like to leave their country, not like the Thais that enjoy and are proud of what they have here.

All in all, i think that i made the right move by retiring here, but i still do look back fondly on the Philippines and may return to see for my self if it has gone even further downhill as i've heard from friends that still live there, but continue to bitch about the country. I feel lucky in that i was a bit younger when i lived in the Phil and could endure a lot more discomfort and now that i'm pushing 60, i find Thailand is a lot more user friendly for retirement.

[mamastar]

I guess given that this is the Thailand Visa Forum, and many either live in Thailand or love Thailand, that most would prefer Thailand over the Philippines.

Me, I love the Phils. I liked the food (though as pointed out by someone, bland compared to Thai food), I loved the people. Friendly and happy. I won't argue the lack of infrastructure, the lack of transportation, the potholes, the flooding in rainy season (knee high - but then again, it floods like that in Thailand too), the crime due to poverty....

But to me, a country where lower class speak a few words of English, and anything above that are fluent, upper class write better than most native English speakers, English being so widely spoken is a definite plus.

The hospitality, the friendliness, and the way they can make hanging out with them fun, is to me very attractive. Try going to karaoke with Filipinos, corny songs, whatever. Everyone singing, dancing and having a good time. (They also have incredible voices.)

The language is also quite easy, I believe, it has much English and Spanish influence, so even if you don't speak the language, it's easy to pick up words here and there.

I understand everyone in this Forum pretty much loves (some may have a love/hate) Thailand, but to me, the Phil people are what makes that place so attractive.

[Gary A]

The PI's were actually my second choice with Thailand being number one. I think you'll find that electricity per KWH is a lot more expensive in the PI's. Of course you may not notice that on your bill because it is off so often. I could have put up with the weak infrastructure, the armed guards in the KFC's, volcanoes and the typhoons, but the main reason I chose Thailand is because the PI's have too many earthquakes. I have an unreasonable fear of earthquakes. I realise that's not logical but that's the way it is. Bed rock is NOT supposed to move. I never thought I'd fear earthquakes until I lived in Kalifornia.

[LoveDaBlues]

The PI's were actually my second choice with Thailand being number one. I think you'll find that electricity per KWH is a lot more expensive in the PI's. Of course you may not notice that on your bill because it is off so often. I could have put up with the weak infrastructure, the armed guards in the KFC's, volcanoes and the typhoons, but the main reason I chose Thailand is because the PI's have too many earthquakes. I have an unreasonable fear of earthquakes. I realise that's not logical but that's the way it is. Bed rock is NOT supposed to move. I never thought I'd fear earthquakes until I lived in Kalifornia.

Gary, you were my hero until this post. Ya wimp.

Actually, I fear earthquakes MUCH more than the numerous hurricanes I've been through. Why? Because with a hurricane you have days to prepare and simply drive away to a safe zone. With an earthquake if that sucker has your name on it...........

[pvn2474]

I just spend 5 months there as well as the OP. I will not start to tell about it, just say that Philipines is an absolutely and total SHITHOLE!!! Stay away from it folks. Stay away!

Nice first post! care to explain why? or do you work for the thai tourist board or something??

Mark

Thanks for calling me and my post dumbass. I guess such comments comes from a sophisticated human. -Care to explain why my post is a dumbass post? I clearly state, that I will not explain why I call Philippines a shithole. Why does that make my post stupid?

But OK, for you my dear, I will make an exception: Philippine mentality is mainly ruled by fear, angst. The mentality lacks of belief (in everything, including other fellow humans), you are confronted with dis-trust absolutely everywhere and most people seem to be discontent with their life situation. You have to prove yourself ALL the time. The control in the airport (restrictions set by the Americans, btw.) is ridiculous and totally out of proportion with the virtual danger. Even in the smallest super markets, you and your back are being searched by a (normally armed) guard. I asked some of the taxi drivers, why they CONSTANTLY beep their horns, and most told me, that then it was more safe to drive ;-) The drivers are sure, that the next car they meet on the street, surely will crash into them. Often I pressed the horn for 2-3 min consecutively and at the same time told the driver, that now he was a lot more safe. But for some reason he didn't look very happy.

This inherited idea (must be a kind of tradition), that everything you meet in life represent a danger (and only that), makes the philippines think about SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY all the time. All this safety suffocated you. You cannot breath. And it is, of course, always a very bad feeling, that noone trusts you. That noone believe in you. That you are always thrown suspicion to. And on the other hand: I'm not sure, that all these restrictions make you more safe. If a terrorist really wanted to bring a bomb on the plane, I'm absolutely sure, he could do that.

The mentality is generally negative, contracting, tensioning. Here is and example from my time there, just to give the readers an idea of how philippine mentality works: I was with a very nice girl, I dated the same day, on a hotel in Manila. A brand new one. 1 meter from the bed, on the wall, was hanging a new, nice television. One day she arrived, I was lying in the bed, looking some mass from some church in the TV. After awhile, she sat down and said: Oh, that is dangerous. What if one day we have an earthquake, then maybe the television will fall down in the bed on you when you sleep. Well, of course it theoretically COULD happen, but the likelihood is somewhere under one to a billion, I will estimate. I think you catch my point.

Well, one time (have been there 3 times, last time 5 months) in the airport, I got enough of all that stupid control procedure, so I told the guard, that I had a bomb in my back. Just to make fun but also at the same time tell the staff there, how sick and tired I am of all that dis-trust. For some reason, he didn't laugh. He ordered (in PI, everyone give strick orders, everyone seem to be their own little dictator) me to follow him to an office. On our way to that office, he showed me a sign, on which was written, that it is punishable to make jokes about carrying bombs. When I entered the office, where an old, senior officer where sitting, he told me, that he had the right to jail me. I am a free man (financially independent, no wife and children, etc.), so I would actually like to see a philippine jail from inside for a couple of weeks, so I gave back, telling him, that it is very offending to show this level of dis-trust to innocent tourists. Well, I was let off with a warning.

The philippine peoples attention is very much turned outwards. It is definately not the country of meditation. And again, their attention is normally not directed towards the good in life, but the, normally non-existing, danger. It is not easy to relax there and be yourself, because you are "hit" (woken up, like you have you face slapped) all the time by philippines, who confront you for a countless number of reasons. Never relaxed, guards up.

As the OP states, the philippines must be the most ruthless, disrespectful people on earth. They are extremely direct in their attitudes and at the same time very egocentric and greedy (ALSO the girls, some of them are just very smart). One day I was jogging on the street, a child "beggar" (wearing new clothes, some of it Nike) - maybe at the age of 8-9 - just suddenly yelled to me from the other side of the road: Give me your money! -Omg. Another day, I was just ignoring (not looking at) some child beggars who were pulling my clothes (close to Fuente, in direction of Abiljana stadion), and then when they gave up, after following me maybe 100-150 meter down the street, their only comment was: ###### you! Nice kids. I wonder where they got this very nice behaviour?!! Their parent maybe?!

The mentality is very, very american. The culture is american. More than asian. Much more. Philippines have this smart-ass attitude which lacks of essence. No roots, soul, not much identity. When you are served, for example at most restaurants (e.g. Shakeys at Fuente), the behaviour of the staff is so superficial, that I really couldn't take it. One time I told the waiter please just to behave normally. I am quite sure, that the staff are total slaves, because of the high rate of unemployment (50% in Manila and little less in Cebu, as far as I was told by the locals in both cities) and are told by the manager to behave that ridiculous way. I feel sorry for them. I just couldn't take this feigned attitude there.

Of course the state of buildings, roads, cars, etc. are a lot worse than, say, Thailand. And always to look at something worn-down and ugly, of course also affects the mood and impression of the country in a negative way.

Accommodation in Cebu and Manila is, in my opinion, in line with the prices in Bangkok when we are talking about living space; however, the condition of accommodation in Bangkok is just of a lot higher standard. And accessibility easier. I have to disagree with the OP here.

The stronger religion in a country, the higher level of consciousness is needed, in order to make the religion have a constructive influence on the people. Philippines are poorly educated. Yes, around 50% have a bechelors degree (so I was told by the many locals I asked), but my impression was definately, that the level in the universities generally is low, compared to, say, western standards. Philippines generally seem ignorant, to me. At the same time most philippines fight bad household economies. Of course this cocktail doesn't give a very nice result. Many people seem to support and use (maybe abuse) the religion as a kind of "drug", in order to survive their miserable life (which basically is a result of the mentality). One of the results of this is, that the culture has a very thin surface of piety, but beneath is the opposite. A lie. The Philippines is very much one big lie. An illusion. Illusion of stupidity!

The girls. Hehe. Of course 99.8% of the girls are after your money, blue eyes, white skin, height, opportunity to flee the country, etc. Filipinas are NOT submissive, generally, as some people in this forum has said (e.g. peaceblondie). They are just raisen to create a family (and to be virgins until they marry, etc.), be family oriented, BUT with 50% unemployment and 6-8000 piso (12000 for a high payed one) for a normal job, of course they make a big efford to get the "rich, white man" interested in them - also if this includes put-on submissiveness. Noone in PI with a normal salary has a chance in life to buy a house, give each teenager their own room, different amenities, etc. The girls are like the rest of the inhabitants there: fearful, greedy, superficially religious, dominant, demanding, etc.

I could go on with this, but it's already more than enough. This is just a minor extract from my experiences from that shithole.

OF COURSE, there are many nice, honest people in PI. There are nice people everywhere. I just wanted to give people my impression of some of the MANY, MANY problems you most likely will encounter as a tourist or citizen in PI. Actually it is a little hard for me to find something positive there, except for practical issues (visa easy and cheap (again opposite OP's opinion), availability of girls are so easy you cannot believe it, almost everyone speaks useful english, etc.). The Philippines doesn't seem to have much to offer anyone. Just stay away from that dump. That's my advise. In short.

PS: No, I am not working for the thai tourist board. Just wanted to mention that for the good order ;-) Yes, I like Thailand very much, but I have not praised this country in my former post, just told truth about The Philippines.

[Ijustwannateach]

PVN, you're going to take a little time-out in the nice-nice corner. Suggest you look into the forum rules regarding flaming.

"S"

[Ijustwannateach]

Let's stay on topic, please.

Let me re-iterate. This thread *will* stay on topic, which is Philippines vs. Thailand. The next off-topic post will prompt the closing of this thread; if it is a flame, it will also earn a holiday.

[slackula]

I lived there on and off for ~6 years. I was working in the ME but had a Filipina wife.

I hated every minute of every visit there.

Inedible food, restaurant guards sporting shotguns, garbage everywhere, corruption that makes the Thais look like amateurs and catholic/american bias in philosophy.

As far as I am concerned the place is a basket case -- rotten to the core and the only semi-redeeming features (nice beaches/scenery etc) are not even close to compensating for the faults.

This was circa 15 years ago, since then I have had 4 friends move from BKK to manila and they have all come back to Thailand and agreed with my assessment.

/Just my humble opinion of course.

[shochu]

I will try to add to things already discussed.

I like the PL very much and almost chose it as a place to make a second home. There are some very positive things about it that i really like. One, it is off the beaten path. A lot less tourists, which means less toursit oriented locals and all the associated stuff that comes with it. If you want to just get away and be by yourself - you can do it in the PL.

If you go into the mountains - northern luzon - you can find some amazing places where there are almost no expats and the people are amazingly nice and I guess where you experience the real filipinos who have not been tainted with trying to chase the dollar or have been exposed to the harder aspects of urban life. The few expats I did see there appeared to really enjoy their life - read - knew they had a good thing. Some had businesses where they were making a good buck - actually making really good money. They of course had to marry a local - not any filipina - but a local girl from the area - as the locals there will not sell land to people not from the area. the place was beautiful, and crime free. Everyone here knows everyone. It was actually a paradise from my view point - except - in order for me to make it a second home - I would have had to marry a local girl. You can rent a regualr size house with yard for a hundred bucks a month. All this info was from a local girl living there.

Another place I really liked was near dumaguette - about 20 minutes to the interior - can't remember the name. I inquired about it and an expat told me that "ya it's beautiful - but if you have a family - no way. I was sleeping one night and a guy crawled into my house and tried to attack my wife with me sleeping beside her."

The local people are very friendly and very warm hearted. It is the city folk and the people who deal with tourists that can be abrasive. And of course there are also a lot of just plain hoods. the main reason I did not choose the PL was the crime and safety reasons. Although I had no problems, I was always on guard. I bought a nice watch and i was staying in a nice hotel, but I was advised not to wear it out in cebu by the staff. At another hotel about 50 meters of a dark patch from the scene I was told by the hotel to take a taxi. Imagine not safe to walk 50 meters from my hotel in the evening.

The upper part of cebu is quite nice and looks like any westernized city with many strip malls. The lower part of cebu is a hel_l hole - almost as bad a jakarta. I think if you live in the upper area then you could have a pleasant life. There is everything you could want in the all purpose shopping mall. Except that it seems all you do is spend time in that mall whenever you want or need something.

Manila is fine if you live in the expat area where there are many shopping malls and creature comforts.

The great thing about the phillipines are the variety of islands, the mountains, amazing coffee and the people - who are among the warmest around. They are are very mariage minded and family oriented people - but if you marry a local, it is worse than say a thai in terms of what the locals will expect you to do for their families. They have a good nightlife as well, with great live bands. But the live bands tend to be mostly cover bands - whereas in Thailand you can see great bands singing their own good music.

The main reason against the PL is the crime, pollution and utter chaos in most of their cities and getting around in the city. As well, the variety of things available is limited. For example, there are no good book stores like thailand has. Bangkok has great bookstores and seems to have every possible store. Whenever I am in th PL I tend to eat mostly japanese as it is cheap and readily available and not laden in oil and it offers some forms of veggies. The Pl seemed to have a predominantly older expat community, whereas thailand is more mixed.

From my perspective, everything seems more expensive in the PL, except housing away from the urban centers. I was told you could buy land and build a house for about U.S. $10,000.00.

I enjoy going to the Pl for a change and to veg on an island, but long term is out of the question. As mentioned earlier, I could not deal with the food for long and it seems everytime I go there, I look forward to going home, whereas I don't when I'm in thailand.

And a final note - japan and china have ramped up investments big time in thailand, as are the middle east states. They are long on thailand. It seems the big boys are moving in. Japan used to have a large presense in the Pl but they have been withdrawing as is evident with their tourist numbers.

And regarding thailand. I don't think they are anti-farang as has been said here many times. They are just trying to target a different class of citizens - primarily those that can support themselves and help support thailand. This is not elitism. Look at most westerm countries - for example Canada - they only allow in professionals with a large bank account that can contribute to the economy. And in recent news - Isaan is trying to promote their province among the expat community by asking them to invest in and promote the province to their buddies. this does not sound anti-farang to me!

[dclaryjr]

This is a bit of a tangent in that my only experience in the PI is having a couple beers at the NCO club on Clark while on a layover flying to

Thailand. I just wanted to throw in that while I was stationed in Thailand in '75, I worked with two guys who hadn't been back to the U.S. except for a couple of short trips in ten years. They spent that whole time doing the "Asia Triangle" - Thailand, Taiwan, and the P.I. They had a lot of great things to say about all three, but they both enjoyed LOS the most.

[Gary A]

The PI's were actually my second choice with Thailand being number one. I think you'll find that electricity per KWH is a lot more expensive in the PI's. Of course you may not notice that on your bill because it is off so often. I could have put up with the weak infrastructure, the armed guards in the KFC's, volcanoes and the typhoons, but the main reason I chose Thailand is because the PI's have too many earthquakes. I have an unreasonable fear of earthquakes. I realise that's not logical but that's the way it is. Bed rock is NOT supposed to move. I never thought I'd fear earthquakes until I lived in Kalifornia.

Gary, you were my hero until this post. Ya wimp.

Actually, I fear earthquakes MUCH more than the numerous hurricanes I've been through. Why? Because with a hurricane you have days to prepare and simply drive away to a safe zone. With an earthquake if that sucker has your name on it...........

I actually know I am being a wimp and can't explain or defend my unrealistic fear. I doubt that an earthquake would EVER kill me because I'd die from a heart attack first. It was funny whenever I flew out of LAX. When the plane lifted off the runway, I always had this wonderful feeling of relief.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

To ask for anything even slightly out of the ordinary gets what the expats there call the "deer in the headlights" look. Totally disinterested in serving you really, but to ask them to look for something is a step too far.

"No, no you cretin. I want Beluga caviar, not Sevruga. Can't you speak English? BELUGA. B..E..L..U..G..A. Its from a sturgeon in the Caspian Sea, don't they teach you anything in the slums? Stop looking at me like that with your big stupid cow eyes."

[steveromagnino]

To ask for anything even slightly out of the ordinary gets what the expats there call the "deer in the headlights" look. Totally disinterested in serving you really, but to ask them to look for something is a step too far.

"No, no you cretin. I want Beluga caviar, not Sevruga. Can't you speak English? BELUGA. B..E..L..U..G..A. Its from a sturgeon in the Caspian Sea, don't they teach you anything in the slums? Stop looking at me like that with your big stupid cow eyes."

post of the day; you are going to the Captain's Table Lord Barney; please bring your grund piaano.

G R U N D Grund!!

[Mai Krap]

The only decent guys I know living in the PI married girls long ago when they were stationed there. Last year I got into a argument with a guy who thought living in Angelos City was "Living The Dream", his words. I found him to be a complete idiot on living in Asia. When Clark was open there were valid reasons for Americans and other retired soldiers to be there and retire there, medical being one and having access to the PX another. With Clark now gone I cant imagine living there, its filthy and horrible in general. Trying to compare Angelos City with Pattaya disqaulifies one from being human, you will never see the horrors of the PI lived out in Thailand. Its all real simple to understand when you see Filipinos coming to Thailand to work. Has anyone ever heard of Thais going to work in the PI? I dont thank so.

Can anyone ever Imagine a Sky Train being built in Manilla? I have a friend who over sees offices in Thailand, Cambodia, Siagon, Bangkok, and Manilla, 50% of his time is spent trying to keep the Manilla office sorted. The only good thing is many government papers are written in English. For anyone who thinks crime is bad in Thailand they should have a go in the PI, Unless you are a total piss artist I dont see any reason to go or live there. In my oppinion it is the worst Southeast Asia has to offer and well below even Cambodia.

When I was living there years ago A man who owned a resort payed a girls father to bring her for daily visets for guess what. Yes the girl was underage and there is no excuse for the action as it was entirely criminal and the guy deserves to be in jail. The events surrounding what happend have left dumbfounded to this day. After a few weeks the girl who was I believe 15 and the father were told their services were no longer needed. I guess the guy found a new girl or whatever, I have no idea but heres what followed. The father went to to the police station and filed rape charges against the man. For those who dont know underage sex and rape in PI can lead to the death penalty. The man had a entire list of charges brought against him and the father of the girl who acted as her pimp was never charged with any crime. He even went as far as freely admiting he prostituted his daughter and was viewed as some kind of hero locally. The media had a feild day with all this and as far as I know the man in question is still imprisoned in the PI.

Living the dream? I say living the nightmare, I would never consider living there unless I was given a choice between a Supermax, hel_l, and Cebu, then I would need to think about it.

[seonai]

Abusive posts removed

[thai_narak]

i like both places and both have goods and the bads but that's true everywhere in the world. philippines and its people will never be like thailand and vice versa.

but the OP did miss philipino camaraderie. i have lived and work in the philippines in '95 and have had few close colleagues/friends, well, what can i say the people are more friendly and more open than thai people. i have been to their houses, family gatherings, fiestas, you name it, they are very hospitable people. this contradicts the american way. in contrast, i have also been working in thailand a few years and had and still have friends there but not really close friends i can say. i have never been invited to any house or family gathering, not that i want to, but it's nice to get invitation sometimes from friends even they don't expect you to come. the invitation i always get in thailand are the weddings in the hotel where you have to give back the invitation envelop (gift) to the couples. i always did.

diving, this is crazy in the phillipines and no country in asia can beat this! food, OK it's bland than thai food but that's because it's not spicy enough to give a kick. i have been in diffirent provinces in the PI and the food varies. going south makes the food spicier and hotter. if you like thai food go in the south of PI. beer, SMB is a good beer way better than budweiser piss. and yes, my favorite city, baguio city the 6,000 feet city above sea level which is also called the summer capital is more like chiangmai but it is much colder all year around. this is the place that i'm planning to invest at least one unit of condo. it's a nice foggy place.

to the OP. go back and explore the PI some more. don't stay in manila! like in thailand you don't stay only in bangkok!

Edited November 6, 2007 by thai_narak

[YangYaiEric]

This was a great thread.

Would anyone like to contribute to a Thailand versus Indonesia comparison?

Why would ANYONE consider Indonesia as a possible place to retire. Indonesia is a MUSLIM country! Say no more!...

[thai_narak]

This was a great thread.

Would anyone like to contribute to a Thailand versus Indonesia comparison?

Why would ANYONE consider Indonesia as a possible place to retire. Indonesia is a MUSLIM country! Say no more!...

it never crossed my mind...

[tijnebijn]

This was a great thread.

Would anyone like to contribute to a Thailand versus Indonesia comparison?

Why would ANYONE consider Indonesia as a possible place to retire. Indonesia is a MUSLIM country! Say no more!...

it never crossed my mind...

Indonesia is a Muslim country , but to say it is not a nice country to retire or whatsoever is

far crossed the line . I have travelled extensively through this country and it still amazes me

of the variety it offers . I loved the Sumatra people , but understand its a bit nono after all those

earthquakes over there recently .

Java has got some nice places like Jog jakarta , not to forget Bali (Hindu ).

Also Sulawesi is pretty interesting and pre dominating christian by the way.

Maybe we Dutch have some more affection with Indo because of our past with

this country and that many Indo people are living in Holland , but it really does

surprise me nobody on this forum even considers Indonesia , it really is a beautiful country .

There are some parts on Java who are a bit to fanatic to live at for us expats , but this country

surprisingly perhaps , have many variations in its population and attitudes per districts.

It is a huge country with wonderful culture and terrific food , maybe even beter then Thai food ,

at least at par .

When not travelled there and not knowing the people , I think it is very harsh to commend so

quickly on that , just because they are muslim , its not the Middle East you know .

[thai_narak]

This was a great thread.

Would anyone like to contribute to a Thailand versus Indonesia comparison?

Why would ANYONE consider Indonesia as a possible place to retire. Indonesia is a MUSLIM country! Say no more!...

it never crossed my mind...

Indonesia is a Muslim country , but to say it is not a nice country to retire or whatsoever is

far crossed the line . I have travelled extensively through this country and it still amazes me

of the variety it offers . I loved the Sumatra people , but understand its a bit nono after all those

earthquakes over there recently .

Java has got some nice places like Jog jakarta , not to forget Bali (Hindu ).

Also Sulawesi is pretty interesting and pre dominating christian by the way.

Maybe we Dutch have some more affection with Indo because of our past with

this country and that many Indo people are living in Holland , but it really does

surprise me nobody on this forum even considers Indonesia , it really is a beautiful country .

There are some parts on Java who are a bit to fanatic to live at for us expats , but this country

surprisingly perhaps , have many variations in its population and attitudes per districts.

It is a huge country with wonderful culture and terrific food , maybe even beter then Thai food ,

at least at par .

When not travelled there and not knowing the people , I think it is very harsh to commend so

quickly on that , just because they are muslim , its not the Middle East you know .

i'm sure you are right tijnebijn. but 3 countries for me to fantasise are more than enough ie. thailand, philippines, and malaysia.

[Mosha]

Indonesia best avoided just now though. BBC reports several volcanoes ready to pop.

[mcgriffith]

This is a Philippines and Thailand topic, but I will say that I lived in Bali, Indonesia for about a year, and spent a bit of time in Sumatra and Java as well.

Indonesia has very friendly people, a rich vibrant culture, beautiful scenery and some of the best surfing and scuba diving in the world. I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, anymore than I would dismiss Italy (which I love as well) because of the Pope.....

[sonnyJ]

PVN, you're going to take a little time-out in the nice-nice corner. Suggest you look into the forum rules regarding flaming.

"S"

If someone were so kind and told me. Why was he banned? Who was he flaming?

I thought his wrote was interesting.

Thank you.

Edited November 6, 2007 by sonnyJ

[WilliamIV]

This was a great thread.

Would anyone like to contribute to a Thailand versus Indonesia comparison?

Why would ANYONE consider Indonesia as a possible place to retire. Indonesia is a MUSLIM country! Say no more!...

it never crossed my mind...

Indonesia is a Muslim country , but to say it is not a nice country to retire or whatsoever is

far crossed the line . I have travelled extensively through this country and it still amazes me

of the variety it offers . I loved the Sumatra people , but understand its a bit nono after all those

earthquakes over there recently .

Java has got some nice places like Jog jakarta , not to forget Bali (Hindu ).

Also Sulawesi is pretty interesting and pre dominating christian by the way.

Maybe we Dutch have some more affection with Indo because of our past with

this country and that many Indo people are living in Holland , but it really does

surprise me nobody on this forum even considers Indonesia , it really is a beautiful country .

There are some parts on Java who are a bit to fanatic to live at for us expats , but this country

surprisingly perhaps , have many variations in its population and attitudes per districts.

It is a huge country with wonderful culture and terrific food , maybe even beter then Thai food ,

at least at par .

When not travelled there and not knowing the people , I think it is very harsh to commend so

quickly on that , just because they are muslim , its not the Middle East you know .

What is wrong with the Middle East?

I would LOVE to Retire in Dubai - it is really Beautiful.

Of course its more expensive than Thailand & Philippines

But it is safer.

But its not for the Nana Plaza and Pattaya lovers

Bill

[WilliamIV]

PVN, you're going to take a little time-out in the nice-nice corner. Suggest you look into the forum rules regarding flaming.

"S"

If someone were so kind and told me. Why was he banned? Who was he flaming?

I thought his wrote was interesting.

Thank you.

Yes - I also am confused as to why PVN has been banned.

Maybe the Flaming bit has already been deleted?

Bill

[JimsKnight]

Indonesia is a pretty enough place and has great potential, however the visa situation is ten times worse than Thailand.

Unless you want to get married you face a visa run every thirty days!

It does have some of the prettiest girls in SE Asia IMO though.

[tropo]

What is wrong with the Middle East?

I would LOVE to Retire in Dubai - it is really Beautiful.

Of course its more expensive than Thailand & Philippines

But it is safer.

But its not for the Nana Plaza and Pattaya lovers

Bill

I wouldn't call desert terrain beautiful.

You wouldn't think that anyone who enjoys life in Thailand would want to retire in a sterile Arab country.

[WilliamIV]

What is wrong with the Middle East?

I would LOVE to Retire in Dubai - it is really Beautiful.

Of course its more expensive than Thailand & Philippines

But it is safer.

But its not for the Nana Plaza and Pattaya lovers

Bill

I wouldn't call desert terrain beautiful.

You wouldn't think that anyone who enjoys life in Thailand would want to retire in a sterile Arab country.

Sterile?

It is not all Desert - it has a very stunning Mountainous Area

in the South - suitable for a Day Trip from Dubai.

Dubai has several VERY Beautiful Shopping Malls

one with a Ski Slope attached - full of Ice & Snow

There are many very good Restaurants.

It has the Worlds Tallest Hotel (7 star) and many 5 Star ones.

It is building the Worlds Tallest Tower and Biggest Shopping Mall

It does have night clubs

But I grant it is not for everybody.

Bill

[lilBob]

I just spend 5 months there as well as the OP. I will not start to tell about it, just say that Philipines is an absolutely and total SHITHOLE!!! Stay away from it folks. Stay away!

Nice first post! care to explain why? or do you work for the thai tourist board or something??

Mark

Thanks for calling me and my post dumbass. I guess such comments comes from a sophisticated human. -Care to explain why my post is a dumbass post? I clearly state, that I will not explain why I call Philippines a shithole. Why does that make my post stupid?

But OK, for you my dear, I will make an exception: Philippine mentality is mainly ruled by fear, angst. The mentality lacks of belief (in everything, including other fellow humans), you are confronted with dis-trust absolutely everywhere and most people seem to be discontent with their life situation. You have to prove yourself ALL the time. The control in the airport (restrictions set by the Americans, btw.) is ridiculous and totally out of proportion with the virtual danger. Even in the smallest super markets, you and your back are being searched by a (normally armed) guard. I asked some of the taxi drivers, why they CONSTANTLY beep their horns, and most told me, that then it was more safe to drive ;-) The drivers are sure, that the next car they meet on the street, surely will crash into them. Often I pressed the horn for 2-3 min consecutively and at the same time told the driver, that now he was a lot more safe. But for some reason he didn't look very happy.

This inherited idea (must be a kind of tradition), that everything you meet in life represent a danger (and only that), makes the philippines think about SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY all the time. All this safety suffocated you. You cannot breath. And it is, of course, always a very bad feeling, that noone trusts you. That noone believe in you. That you are always thrown suspicion to. And on the other hand: I'm not sure, that all these restrictions make you more safe. If a terrorist really wanted to bring a bomb on the plane, I'm absolutely sure, he could do that.

The mentality is generally negative, contracting, tensioning. Here is and example from my time there, just to give the readers an idea of how philippine mentality works: I was with a very nice girl, I dated the same day, on a hotel in Manila. A brand new one. 1 meter from the bed, on the wall, was hanging a new, nice television. One day she arrived, I was lying in the bed, looking some mass from some church in the TV. After awhile, she sat down and said: Oh, that is dangerous. What if one day we have an earthquake, then maybe the television will fall down in the bed on you when you sleep. Well, of course it theoretically COULD happen, but the likelihood is somewhere under one to a billion, I will estimate. I think you catch my point.

Well, one time (have been there 3 times, last time 5 months) in the airport, I got enough of all that stupid control procedure, so I told the guard, that I had a bomb in my back. Just to make fun but also at the same time tell the staff there, how sick and tired I am of all that dis-trust. For some reason, he didn't laugh. He ordered (in PI, everyone give strick orders, everyone seem to be their own little dictator) me to follow him to an office. On our way to that office, he showed me a sign, on which was written, that it is punishable to make jokes about carrying bombs. When I entered the office, where an old, senior officer where sitting, he told me, that he had the right to jail me. I am a free man (financially independent, no wife and children, etc.), so I would actually like to see a philippine jail from inside for a couple of weeks, so I gave back, telling him, that it is very offending to show this level of dis-trust to innocent tourists. Well, I was let off with a warning.

The philippine peoples attention is very much turned outwards. It is definately not the country of meditation. And again, their attention is normally not directed towards the good in life, but the, normally non-existing, danger. It is not easy to relax there and be yourself, because you are "hit" (woken up, like you have you face slapped) all the time by philippines, who confront you for a countless number of reasons. Never relaxed, guards up.

As the OP states, the philippines must be the most ruthless, disrespectful people on earth. They are extremely direct in their attitudes and at the same time very egocentric and greedy (ALSO the girls, some of them are just very smart). One day I was jogging on the street, a child "beggar" (wearing new clothes, some of it Nike) - maybe at the age of 8-9 - just suddenly yelled to me from the other side of the road: Give me your money! -Omg. Another day, I was just ignoring (not looking at) some child beggars who were pulling my clothes (close to Fuente, in direction of Abiljana stadion), and then when they gave up, after following me maybe 100-150 meter down the street, their only comment was: ###### you! Nice kids. I wonder where they got this very nice behaviour?!! Their parent maybe?!

The mentality is very, very american. The culture is american. More than asian. Much more. Philippines have this smart-ass attitude which lacks of essence. No roots, soul, not much identity. When you are served, for example at most restaurants (e.g. Shakeys at Fuente), the behaviour of the staff is so superficial, that I really couldn't take it. One time I told the waiter please just to behave normally. I am quite sure, that the staff are total slaves, because of the high rate of unemployment (50% in Manila and little less in Cebu, as far as I was told by the locals in both cities) and are told by the manager to behave that ridiculous way. I feel sorry for them. I just couldn't take this feigned attitude there.

Of course the state of buildings, roads, cars, etc. are a lot worse than, say, Thailand. And always to look at something worn-down and ugly, of course also affects the mood and impression of the country in a negative way.

Accommodation in Cebu and Manila is, in my opinion, in line with the prices in Bangkok when we are talking about living space; however, the condition of accommodation in Bangkok is just of a lot higher standard. And accessibility easier. I have to disagree with the OP here.

The stronger religion in a country, the higher level of consciousness is needed, in order to make the religion have a constructive influence on the people. Philippines are poorly educated. Yes, around 50% have a bechelors degree (so I was told by the many locals I asked), but my impression was definately, that the level in the universities generally is low, compared to, say, western standards. Philippines generally seem ignorant, to me. At the same time most philippines fight bad household economies. Of course this cocktail doesn't give a very nice result. Many people seem to support and use (maybe abuse) the religion as a kind of "drug", in order to survive their miserable life (which basically is a result of the mentality). One of the results of this is, that the culture has a very thin surface of piety, but beneath is the opposite. A lie. The Philippines is very much one big lie. An illusion. Illusion of stupidity!

The girls. Hehe. Of course 99.8% of the girls are after your money, blue eyes, white skin, height, opportunity to flee the country, etc. Filipinas are NOT submissive, generally, as some people in this forum has said (e.g. peaceblondie). They are just raisen to create a family (and to be virgins until they marry, etc.), be family oriented, BUT with 50% unemployment and 6-8000 piso (12000 for a high payed one) for a normal job, of course they make a big efford to get the "rich, white man" interested in them - also if this includes put-on submissiveness. Noone in PI with a normal salary has a chance in life to buy a house, give each teenager their own room, different amenities, etc. The girls are like the rest of the inhabitants there: fearful, greedy, superficially religious, dominant, demanding, etc.

I could go on with this, but it's already more than enough. This is just a minor extract from my experiences from that shithole.

OF COURSE, there are many nice, honest people in PI. There are nice people everywhere. I just wanted to give people my impression of some of the MANY, MANY problems you most likely will encounter as a tourist or citizen in PI. Actually it is a little hard for me to find something positive there, except for practical issues (visa easy and cheap (again opposite OP's opinion), availability of girls are so easy you cannot believe it, almost everyone speaks useful english, etc.). The Philippines doesn't seem to have much to offer anyone. Just stay away from that dump. That's my advise. In short.

PS: No, I am not working for the thai tourist board. Just wanted to mention that for the good order ;-) Yes, I like Thailand very much, but I have not praised this country in my former post, just told truth about The Philippines.

You might want to be careful about joking about bombs in airports some security people might take offense glasgow NY washington come to mind also a Brazilian guy whom the cops thought had a bomb was shot dead in the London underground I personally wouldn't like prison I have a great fear that I might be locked up with a 300 pound monster who wants to play Mummys and Daddys

all the best Bob