Honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness

[Andy F]

Dear friends of Bill. Here is a blog I wrote a while ago. It may be helpful to AA newcomers. I've called it "Honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness."

 

https://aaforagnostics.com/blog/honesty-open-mindedness-willingness/

 

Disclaimer

 

The content of this blog is an AA member's personal experience. It is in no way representative of Alcoholics Anonymous

 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Andy F

[Neeranam]

Some great stuff in there,  ????

[Andy F]

On 9/23/2023 at 12:27 PM, Neeranam said:

Some great stuff in there,  ????

Thanks Neeranam! ????????????

[likerdup1]

Many AA's hove found that it is important to reference the 12 step program from AA literature when communicating ideas about AA. I find the fellowship a place where a lot of information get's talked about that does not necessarily line up with the  AA program described in it's literature. So repeating ideas kicked around the fellowship can perpetuate misinformation about the true program of AA as outlined in AA basic text literature.

 

Acronyms such as H.O.W. and G.O.D. are examples of ideas that have come from treatment centers or other recovery sources that claim to know the AA program but exist for profit. They embellish or write their own literature without careful study of the original AA basic texts. They give out information about AA that is in many cases not AA. 

 

For example. Open mindedness is referenced in Appendix II.  Nowhere in the program literature does it have anything to do with taking a sponsors advice or direction. The word is used to express an attitude one should have when looking at spiritual principles or considering the existence of a Higher Power or Power Greater than ourselves.

 

Appendix II AA Big Book:

Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial. We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.

 

Open mindedness is also used in "We Agnostics: (This chapter existing in the book to help persuade atheists or agnostics to be open minded and willing to believe there may be a Higher Power or God to help them with alcoholism)

 

Page 48 Big Book:

Faced with alcoholic destruction, we soon became as open minded on spiritual matters as we had tried to be on other questions. In this respect alcohol was a great persuader. It finally beat us into a state of reasonableness. Sometimes this was a tedious process; we hope no one else will be prejudiced for as long as some of us were. (the prejudice they are talking about is prejudice toward a Higher Power or God)

 

The AA Big Book concordance @ https://www.164andmore.com is an excellent source one can reference to see how words are used and in what context they are used in the AA fellowships text books "Alcoholics Anonymous" and "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions".

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by likerdup1

[Andy F]

19 hours ago, likerdup1 said:

Many AA's hove found that it is important to reference the 12 step program from AA literature when communicating ideas about AA. I find the fellowship a place where a lot of information get's talked about that does not necessarily line up with the  AA program described in it's literature. So repeating ideas kicked around the fellowship can perpetuate misinformation about the true program of AA as outlined in AA basic text literature.

 

Acronyms such as H.O.W. and G.O.D. are examples of ideas that have come from treatment centers or other recovery sources that claim to know the AA program but exist for profit. They embellish or write their own literature without careful study of the original AA basic texts. They give out information about AA that is in many cases not AA. 

 

For example. Open mindedness is referenced in Appendix II.  Nowhere in the program literature does it have anything to do with taking a sponsors advice or direction. The word is used to express an attitude one should have when looking at spiritual principles or considering the existence of a Higher Power or Power Greater than ourselves.

 

Appendix II AA Big Book:

Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial. We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable.

 

Open mindedness is also used in "We Agnostics: (This chapter existing in the book to help persuade atheists or agnostics to be open minded and willing to believe there may be a Higher Power or God to help them with alcoholism)

 

Page 48 Big Book:

Faced with alcoholic destruction, we soon became as open minded on spiritual matters as we had tried to be on other questions. In this respect alcohol was a great persuader. It finally beat us into a state of reasonableness. Sometimes this was a tedious process; we hope no one else will be prejudiced for as long as some of us were. (the prejudice they are talking about is prejudice toward a Higher Power or God)

 

The AA Big Book concordance @ https://www.164andmore.com is an excellent source one can reference to see how words are used and in what context they are used in the AA fellowships text books "Alcoholics Anonymous" and "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions".

 

If you don't like my material, may I suggest you don't read it. A lot of normal recovering alcoholics appreciate my blogs but you don't strike me as normal in any way! Keep coming back

[Andy F]

13 minutes ago, Andy F said:

If you don't like my material, may I suggest you don't read it. A lot of normal recovering alcoholics appreciate my blogs but you don't strike me as normal in any way! Keep coming back

In AA we speak the language of the heart. Stop being so anal about recovery!

[likerdup1]

9 hours ago, Andy F said:

If you don't like my material, may I suggest you don't read it. A lot of normal recovering alcoholics appreciate my blogs but you don't strike me as normal in any way! Keep coming back

How am I supposed to know if I like it or not without reading it? It's not that I don't like it. It's parts are just plain wrong and not AA.

 

As I said there is a lot of misinformation about the AA program that seeps into the AA fellowship. What you've written about these acronyms is a prime example. In this case you are writing material that you claim to be AA program and it's simply not. I'll I'm doing is pointing that out.

 

If you are going to write material that you claim is AA then back it up with actual program literature quotes.

 

Parroting things and ideas heard in the AA  fellowship doesn't necessarily make them part of the AA program.

 

Best thing I ever did for myself is really study the AA Big Book and 12 and 12 step essays. And I didn't rely on myself to comprehend those texts. I used program teachers like Joe and Charlie and Bob D and Scott L. best thing I ever did for myself to become a recovered alcoholic.

 

I think it's very important to keep in mind that AA is in the business of saving lives. I want to be as precise and as accurate as possible when sponsoring and communicating the AA program. Just as the original AA authors strove to. Someones life may depend on it.

Edited October 1, 2023 by likerdup1

[Andy F]

3 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

How am I supposed to know if I like it or not without reading it? It's not that I don't like it. It's that it's plain inaccurate. In this case you are writing material that you claim to be AA program and it's simply not. I'll I'm doing is pointing that out.

 

If you are going to write material that you claim is AA then back it up with actual program literature quotes.

 

Parroting things and ideas heard in the AA  fellowship doesn't necessarily make it part of the AA program.

You're interpretation of the AA program is so literal that it takes all the spirituality out of it. My interpretation of honesty, open-mindedess and willingness is spot on because it's based on my own personal experience and has led me to 26 years of content sobriety.

 

With your rigid and anal interpretation of the AA program, I certainly don't want what you have. I've never seen a positive side to your character. You neurotically stick to your interpretation of the program. I bet that in your addiction to rigid control, you never smile or have a good laugh about anything. You are terminally serious and miserable in your rigid fundamentalism. It has all the hallmarks of a dry drunk!

[likerdup1]

20 minutes ago, Andy F said:

You're interpretation of the AA program is so literal that it takes all the spirituality out of it. My interpretation of honesty, open-mindedess and willingness is spot on because it's based on my own personal experience and has led me to 26 years of content sobriety.

 

With your rigid and anal interpretation of the AA program, I certainly don't want what you have. I've never seen a positive side to your character. You neurotically stick to your interpretation of the program. I bet that in your addiction to rigid control, you never smile or have a good laugh about anything. You are terminally serious and miserable in your rigid fundamentalism. It has all the hallmarks of a dry drunk!

Let's not stoop to being judgemental or slinging mud. I think we can both agree being judgemental of others is quite the opposite of spiritual behavior.

BTW, the big book was written in such as way as to leave very little up to interpretation. I highly suggest studying it. In the text itself they say thet strive to specifically and as precisely as possible show other alcoholics how they had recovered.

Edited October 1, 2023 by likerdup1

[Andy F]

15 minutes ago, likerdup1 said:

Let's not stoop to being judgemental or slinging mud. I think we can both agree being judgemental of others is quite the opposite of spiritual behavior.

BTW, the big book was written in such as way as to leave very little up to interpretation. I highly suggest studying it. In the text itself they say thet strive to specifically and as precisely as possible show other alcoholics how they had recovered.

Look, I don't want what you have, so I'm stepping off this conversation. ????

[likerdup1]

1 hour ago, Andy F said:

Look, I don't want what you have, so I'm stepping off this conversation. ????

That's fine. But I'll be here and checking this forum for alcoholics looking to recover from alcoholism. If I read something that claims to be associated with AA and is counter to the AA message I will speak out out of respect for the AA 12 step program of action that saved my life.

 

From what I understand this forum is the "I drink to much forum" for people looking for help with drinking problems.

 

As far as  can tell It's not the "Friends of Bill W." forum for discussion of AA or advertisement of books or blogs promoting so called alternative methods to do the 12 steps.

[KhunLA]

Free advertising ... ????

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by KhunLA

[likerdup1]

11 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Free advertising ... ????

 

From the number of replies to previous posts by the OP I expect the postings in this forum have yielded nearly zero interest in the material. In other words. Nobody is reading this stuff, so I should probably not even bother with my replies. Nobody is reading this stuff anyway. I've been wasting my time.

Edited October 2, 2023 by likerdup1

[likerdup1]

On 10/1/2023 at 8:38 PM, Andy F said:

Look, I don't want what you have, so I'm stepping off this conversation. ????

I have found it very important to understand that the 12 step program urges me to stop being concerned with what I want and more concerned with helping others and in doing so paralleling my will with Gods. God then gives me the grace of a daily reprieve from alcoholism. Spirituality.y the AA way is fundamentally manifesting selflessness in ones life to appease a Higher Powers help with alcoholism and help with living sober.  This is recovery from alcoholism the AA way. Study of he literature reveals this over and over, if one is open minded enough to indeed engage in careful study.

 

A famous AA circuit speaker likes to say this. It's not what I don't know that will hurt me. It is what I think I know for certain that just ain't so that will. It appears to me this may very well apply to staunch agnostics or atheists who feel the need to bend the AA program to suit them.

To do the second step as outlined in the chapter "We Agnostics"  laying aside prejudice toward spiritual concepts and the possible existence of God or a Higher Power is very important. This is more or less verbatim from the text.

Edited October 15, 2023 by likerdup1

[likerdup1]

On 10/1/2023 at 10:35 AM, Andy F said:

In AA we speak the language of the heart. Stop being so anal about recovery!

Maybe you should write a blog post describing how to "speak the language of the heart".  You seem to think you know better and how to. All I've been doing here is writing from my heart. You seem to have an opinion otherwise. You seem to think you know better so I challenge you to write a blog post describing exactly how to speak the language of the heart.

Edited October 29, 2023 by likerdup1