14 hours ago, KannikaP said:

I think this is in the wrong thread.

How do you think they are funding the digital wallet?

20 hours ago, hydraides said:

This is why they are doing this handout to try and get mom and pop stores onto digital payments

You really should read up on which stores you can spend this 10k in, let me give you a clue, "mom and pop" is not on the list.

3 hours ago, hotchilli said:

How do you think they are funding the digital wallet?

Well not from your income tax eh! Nor mine.

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Well not from your income tax eh! Nor mine.

And never will

Helicopter money.

23 hours ago, hydraides said:

Yes digital currency will pave the way For human enslavement. Government control just shut off your income stream

 

Remember the Canadian government, A supposed Western free democracy, When they shut off the bank accounts of Canadian truckers protesting

 

It’s a very real and boring future ahead

Hydraids is quite correct, this is the beginning of a totalitarian communist nightmare-total enslavement. First you get everyone use to the free money on the given country's digital account, then you phase out cash completely, and then outlaw private bank accounts, and make the federal digital account the only way to pay for anything (think WePay and AliPay). This way the totalitarian bureaucrats have absolute control over the population, they can fine you with immediate withdrawls for any behavior they deem to be not allowed, in particular speaking out against the State. All one has to do is look at communist china, they have been implementing this for a while now, so in china if you jaywalk across the street, then facial recognition software will debit your "national bank account" the appropriate fine (it does not matter if the facial recognition software was wrong and you were in a different province 200km away that day) , or if you publicly disagree with any government policy they simply stop you from being able to buy a plane, train or bus ticket, thereby isolating you wherever you are at the time. These examples are just very minor examples, should you become a real nuisance then the state can just freeze, or worse yet zero out your Federal bank account. This has been happening in communist china for nearly a decade now, perhaps the only light at the end of the tunnel is that the ponzi scheme that has built up china over the past 40 years, is beginning to implode from within, and when enough people get desperate enough they will all band together and take down the CCP by force.  It is sad to see a country like Thailand with the incredible entrepreneurial spirit that it has, begin to go down this path, hopefully as the Thais witness the implosion of china over the next few years, they will be able to reverse course in time.

1 hour ago, linksman00 said:

think WePay and AliPay

Both owned by private companies

 

1 hour ago, linksman00 said:

if you jaywalk across the street, then facial recognition software will debit your "national bank account"

The facial recognition software will be used to identify and then issue fines via text message - not to debit any bank account.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/china-police-facial-recognition-technology-ai-jaywalkers-fines-text-wechat-weibo-cctv-a8279531.html

 

 

On 10/17/2023 at 8:40 AM, JoePai said:

Not all app functionalities will be operational immediately   ????

 

Now why is that not a surprise

Because they haven't unveiled the social credit score and personal spending tracking features built into the app yet. 

We already have digital payments in Thailand via the banking system. This wallet is a competing "currency" issued by the government via the central bank. The difference is they exert control, program where it can spent and at high level is just being used as a bribe to force people into the tax system with the lure of money being spent at their business in this one-off windfall.

 

So who is paying for it? Every single adult, through the widening of the tax net and buying into a dystopian government digital IOU system.

 

I sincerely hope that people in Thailand spend the 10k, get the money bank into the real banking system and dump it. However, the notion of "Super App" means that the government wants you to continue using it, and by "want", I mean to force you by restricting access to other services in future.

On 10/17/2023 at 8:30 AM, webfact said:

Deputy Finance Minister Julapun stated that vendors outside the formal tax network cannot convert their digital wallet funds into cash. However, they can use their balance for purchases from other vendors within the tax system.

Why would the "outside vendors" ever participate? They only get a credit that they can apply to buying from their competitors who are in the system? Can't be many "inside vendors" in many of these remote villages within the 4km zone. Maybe one or two? 

This exercise is a disgrace. Pheu Thai have effectively bought votes to win seats at election time without saying where the money will come from to cover the cost. It now looks as though foreigners will be targetted in this regard.

 

The more I see of the new government the less I like it. We appear to have moved out of the frying pan into the fire.

Multi purpose for what? Comprehensive solution to what? Nothing explained about these other purposes.

 

Imagine all government staff being paid their salary into a digital wallet. Only allowed to be spent in certain "government authorised" outlets. At prices controlled by said outlets. Not allowed to spend more than a certain amount each month on alcohol or cigarettes. All in the name of health. 

Far fetched?

On 10/17/2023 at 9:57 AM, proton said:

Took them years to get the 90 day reporting app to work, on and off. There will be enormous problems with this, people not being able to register for various reasons, not getting the handout/bribe, not being able to spend it where they want, cashing it in for a proportion of it from bent vendors etc, amusing times ahead.

not just the truckers. they also shut down bank accounts for those who donated money to the protest.

 

i agree, the future is <deleted> and the idiots will sell their own future away for 10,000 thb and be none the wiser.

On 10/17/2023 at 8:30 AM, webfact said:

Deputy Finance Minister Julapun stated that vendors outside the formal tax network cannot convert their digital wallet funds into cash. However, they can use their balance for purchases from other vendors within the tax system.

Translated: 
Only "connected" special people can participate in the grift scheme initiative.

Fyi.  Prepare for massive inflation in Thailand in 2024 - 2025.  You can bank on that prediction.  But the exchange rate should be a real winner for expats.

This is the official roll-out of CBDC with all the bells-and-whistles to come - on a pre-determined schedule of course.

Notice that just like during the Covid plague, there will be "essential businesses" who will be allowed to play, and then everyone else who are not part of the scheme.
The "essential businesses" players become the receipts of a massive wealth transfer (10,000K happiness to the voters scheme worth a half a trillion THB compliments of a Thai printing press system of digital debits and credits manage by the Thai central bank). 
Non-players?  So sad, too bad.  "Wealth will" (not) "trickle-down to non-essential businesses and entities who are outside the scheme and are deemed non-playing-entities," the plebs will be told..  Of course, prices for just about everything will skyrocket to soak up the excess money supply of digital banking ones-and-zeros flooding the banking system.

Happy to the indenture debt-slaves people.

 

 

Edited October 18, 20232 yr by connda

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Why would the "outside vendors" ever participate? They only get a credit that they can apply to buying from their competitors who are in the system? Can't be many "inside vendors" in many of these remote villages within the 4km zone. Maybe one or two? 

You raise an interesting point.  I rode through 15 provinces on my Honda Click in March+April this year.  The choice of bike is of interest because I took backroads that someone on a big bike wouldn't bother with and made many stops along the way.  

 

Many small villages, if you could even call them that, had the traditional mom and pop businesses selling snacks but there was a shiny new 7/11 there in the middle of nowhere.  These were large stores compared to many in Pattaya, far larger than what the closest population would warrant.  It made me wonder if these would be the chosen ones for the CBDC.  Maybe the way to limit people's meat intake is to force them to eat pre prepared meals like the ones sold in 7/11.  

1 minute ago, Bobthegimp said:

You raise an interesting point.  I rode through 15 provinces on my Honda Click in March+April this year.  The choice of bike is of interest because I took backroads that someone on a big bike wouldn't bother with and made many stops along the way.  

 

Many small villages, if you could even call them that, had the traditional mom and pop businesses selling snacks but there was a shiny new 7/11 there in the middle of nowhere.  These were large stores compared to many in Pattaya, far larger than what the closest population would warrant.  It made me wonder if these would be the chosen ones for the CBDC.  Maybe the way to limit people's meat intake is to force them to eat pre prepared meals like the ones sold in 7/11.  

I think that is likely to occur. Some many months back there was a story on AN about how 7 intended to put a store in every village. Pretty handy, eh? This 10,000 baht to me looks like something that is going to be endlessly circulated within its own financial eco-system and can never be cashed out. In fact, the reverse will occur, cash will gradually be forced into the digital wallet, and, like you say, purchases must take place at the G(overnment)-Store.

15 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I think that is likely to occur. Some many months back there was a story on AN about how 7 intended to put a store in every village. Pretty handy, eh? This 10,000 baht to me looks like something that is going to be endlessly circulated within its own financial eco-system and can never be cashed out. In fact, the reverse will occur, cash will gradually be forced into the digital wallet, and, like you say, purchases must take place at the G(overnment)-Store.

It will be interesting to see how the underground economy will develop after the populace is hung out in the sun on digital tenterhooks for the capitalist vultures to feed off of the  scraps of flesh that may still remain within a raped and emaciated economy. 

"You'll own nothing and be happy."  / "Happiness to the people."
Same same - not different at all.

1 minute ago, connda said:

It will be interesting to see how the underground economy will develop after the populace is hung out in the sun on digital tenterhooks for the capitalist vultures to feed off of the  scraps of flesh that may still remain within a raped and emaciated economy. 

"You'll own nothing and be happy."  / "Happiness to the people."
Same same - not different at all.

You'll have cash, but you want be able to spend it on most things.

20 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I think that is likely to occur. Some many months back there was a story on AN about how 7 intended to put a store in every village. Pretty handy, eh? This 10,000 baht to me looks like something that is going to be endlessly circulated within its own financial eco-system and can never be cashed out. In fact, the reverse will occur, cash will gradually be forced into the digital wallet, and, like you say, purchases must take place at the G(overnment)-Store.

Sort fits the 15 minute city paradigm.  15 minute villages.  We'll come full circle back to the 1960s when most villages walked, those better off had a bicycle, the rich had a motorcycle, and the wealthy had a car (or a few). 

On 10/17/2023 at 9:49 AM, hydraides said:

Yes digital currency will pave the way For human enslavement. Government control just shut off your income stream

 

Remember the Canadian government, A supposed Western free democracy, When they shut off the bank accounts of Canadian truckers protesting

 

It’s a very real and boring future ahead

So they shut down the truckers accounts before we had a digital economy. 

On 10/17/2023 at 9:57 AM, proton said:

Took them years to get the 90 day reporting app to work, on and off. There will be enormous problems with this, people not being able to register for various reasons, not getting the handout/bribe, not being able to spend it where they want, cashing it in for a proportion of it from bent vendors etc, amusing times ahead.

Sounds like sour grapes.

Take you never had any benefit from the previous initiatives.

On 10/17/2023 at 10:21 AM, bigt3116 said:

True, but gonna be centuries before the rural mom and pop stores and the street vendors only or even accept digital payments.

You really need to keep up. The 50/50 initiative was aimed at the mom and pop stores and there were many market stalls participating.

That scheme was based on digital payment, if you didn't have a smartphone you could get a card for the vendor to scan.

9 hours ago, Karma80 said:

just being used as a bribe to force people into the tax system with the lure of money being spent at their business in this one-off windfall.

 

 

No its not. It alot darker than than that

 

This is paving the way and first major stepping stone to a cashless society and control over major freedoms

 

^Yes they shut down truckers account before we didnt have digital economy, but it didn't matter as much because people still can use cash in most places....Within 5-10 years.....You won't be able to pay cash with anything anywhere

 

 

13 hours ago, sandyf said:

You really need to keep up. The 50/50 initiative was aimed at the mom and pop stores and there were many market stalls participating.

That scheme was based on digital payment, if you didn't have a smartphone you could get a card for the vendor to scan.

I see no mention of a card for the vendor to scan ?

 

"The 50:50 co-payment scheme provided a 50% subsidy rebate of the purchase price published by the participating vendors with up to 150 baht rebate a day and up to 3500 baht rebate per person per campaign (Chantanusornsiri, 2021). To benefit from this co-payment rebate scheme, consumers were required to possess a smartphone with Internet access and had to use m-payments because physical cash transactions were not permitted."

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1029313222000380

 

No mention of a card here either?

 

https://publication.npru.ac.th/bitstream/123456789/1474/1/npru_219.pdf

 

 

19 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

Both owned by private companies

 

The facial recognition software will be used to identify and then issue fines via text message - not to debit any bank account.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/china-police-facial-recognition-technology-ai-jaywalkers-fines-text-wechat-weibo-cctv-a8279531.html

 

 

My friend if you really believe that AliPay and WePay are not controlled by the CCP, then I have a bridge in the middle of a desert in Arizona that I would like to sell you! As for big brother watching your every move, I find it a bit ironic that you post a link to a U.K. rag, since the U.K. is in the process of becoming a dystopian nightmare itself.

36 minutes ago, linksman00 said:

I find it a bit ironic that you post a link to a U.K. rag, since the U.K. is in the process of becoming a dystopian nightmare itself.

I fail to see any irony?

 

Anyway, no need to use both "dystopian" and "nightmare", they are essentially synonymous

 

🙂

 

Also not sure The Independent can still be considered a "rag" as it has been online only since 27 March 2016

 

And can it be considered to be a UK paper when 71% of shares are owned by non-British people

 

:-)

15 hours ago, John Drake said:

You'll have cash, but you want be able to spend it on most things.

Actually you won't be able to spend it on anything! Once they go to a CBDC,  paper money will be worthless.  In the rural areas people will just go back to the barter system like in the olden days, you know a pound of rice for dozen eggs, or a days labor for a BBQ chicken and some veggies, that sort of stuff. Anyone who has a paying job will get paid in CBDC, and they will have to behave like good little A.I. robots and will have to use their CBDC's at the proverbial "company store". This is the dystopian Davos new world order nightmare, that many of these tin foil hatters have been warning about for decades, apparently the tin foil hatters had it right all along!

16 minutes ago, bigt3116 said:

I fail to see any irony?

 

Anyway, no need to use both "dystopian" and "nightmare", they are essentially synonymous

 

🙂

 

Also not sure The Independent can still be considered a "rag" as it has been online only since 27 March 2016

 

And can it be considered to be a UK paper when 71% of shares are owned by non-British people

 

🙂

Whatever you say there mate, 
cheers!

2 hours ago, bigt3116 said:

I see no mention of a card for the vendor to scan ?

 

"The 50:50 co-payment scheme provided a 50% subsidy rebate of the purchase price published by the participating vendors with up to 150 baht rebate a day and up to 3500 baht rebate per person per campaign (Chantanusornsiri, 2021). To benefit from this co-payment rebate scheme, consumers were required to possess a smartphone with Internet access and had to use m-payments because physical cash transactions were not permitted."

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1029313222000380

 

No mention of a card here either?

 

https://publication.npru.ac.th/bitstream/123456789/1474/1/npru_219.pdf

 

 

I don't need Google.

We have been using the initiatives since Aug 2020 when the WTT was launched. In the early days you could use others allowance but that came to an end when they introduced facial recognition.

When the 50/50 appeared my wife was straight into it, teaching family members and neighbours how to use the schemes. Consumers were not required to possess a smartphone, they could go to the bank and get registered, they were issued with a card to make a purchase. All explained on the website at the time.

 

If you insist on google, not that difficult if you stay away from research articles that only want to focus on one aspect.

"BANGKOK (NNT) – The Rao Chana scheme has seen a large number of Thais who don’t have smartphones visiting the branches of Krung Thai Bank (KTB) and its mobile units around the country to register in person for the government’s 7,000-baht benefit."

https://www.thailand-business-news.com/economics/82920-1-7-million-thais-with-no-smartphones-register-for-rao-chana-benefits