O-A Visa Pitfalls

[Thomas72]

14 minutes ago, judokrab said:

I don't think that visa is available nearby. But you can re-enter and get an O visa here.  

 

I thought Savannakhet and Saigon were popular choices for a 90 day O retirement visa... Just need to take copies of your bank book and perhaps a bank letter.

 

I look for excuses to travel. I'd rather go somewhere and get a new 90 day O than spend a day at Chaengwattana.

[Liquorice]

8 hours ago, deptrai said:

My wife and I (both USA citizens) would both be required to have separate 800K THB minimum bank accounts the first year. 

Not if you both apply for the Non O visa to enter Thailand, then apply to extend your stay for 1 year.

Only you would require 800K THB in a Thai bank, not your US spouse.

 

You would apply for an extension based on retirement under section 2.22 of Immigration order 327-2557 which requires 800K THB deposited in a Thai bank account for 60 days prior to submitting an application for a 1 year extension of stay. Your US wife on the other hand would be applying under section 2.20 with no financial requirement.
Essentially, you are classed as her dependant.

327-2557 (2014) - Criteria for extension ENG.pdf

[Liquorice]

7 hours ago, Thomas72 said:

 

I thought Savannakhet and Saigon were popular choices for a 90 day O retirement visa... Just need to take copies of your bank book and perhaps a bank letter.

 

I look for excuses to travel. I'd rather go somewhere and get a new 90 day O than spend a day at Chaengwattana.

Savannahket offer the Non O multiple entry visa based on retirement with proof of 800K THB, or equivalent in any bank account.

The Non Imm O ME is valid for 12 months, each entry grants a stay of 90 days.

It's possible to stay in Thailand for almost 15 months, with 90 day border runs before applying for a new visa.

[oldcpu]

20 hours ago, Thomas72 said:

oldcpu - I thought health insurance was required for the LTR-WP visa? Do they accept your European insurance instead?

 

Unfortunately, no.   The paper work that European Cigna will provide is not succinct enough to meet BoI requirements for Health Insurance for the LTR-WP. ( BoI would be forced to go through a ~50 page document of the coverage to confirm it adequate which they do not want to do - and Cigna refuse to provide anything other than their standard forms which either say not enough information (a 1 page form) or say too much (a ~50 page document)).   

 

But fortunately for me,  BoI will accept self health insurance. 

 

If one can show $100,000 US$ equivalent in cash in a bank account anywhere in the world (in any currency, but equivalent to 100k US$) one can claim self health insurance for the LTR-WP visa.  I have such as part of my (much larger) portfolio, so instead I claimed self health insurance.  I note thou, in that case of self health insurance, it can NOT be in an equity trading account, but rather it has to be $100k cash in a bank account that is not an equity/trading account.  And they wanted proof that amount was in there for some period of time ( I can't recall if it was 1 year or 2 years - it was not an issue for me).

 

Clearly that (having to have $100k cash in a non-equity account) would be a 100% show stopper for many many many expats  (re self health insurance) but having such in a bank account was not, and is not, an issue for me. 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by oldcpu

[Thomas72]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

If one can show $100,000 US$ equivalent in cash in a bank account anywhere in the world (in any currency, but equivalent to 100k US$) one can claim self health insurance for the LTR-WP visa. 

 

Well, that's definitely the way to go then. When I turn 63 (12 years from now) and I have some additional pensions that unlock I'll be able to do this (assuming it's still in place).

 

Is this self-insure option of $100K available to O-A visa holders? If so, I could go that way now.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Thomas72

[Thomas72]

11 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Savannahket offer the Non O multiple entry visa based on retirement with proof of 800K THB, or equivalent in any bank account.

The Non Imm O ME is valid for 12 months, each entry grants a stay of 90 days.

It's possible to stay in Thailand for almost 15 months, with 90 day border runs before applying for a new visa.

 

I wasn't aware of this. The Non Imm O ME retirement via Savannakhet can be done with a US bank account?

[Liquorice]

48 minutes ago, Thomas72 said:

 

I wasn't aware of this. The Non Imm O ME retirement via Savannakhet can be done with a US bank account?

Yes.

https://savannakhet.thaiembassy.org/th/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-o-visa-retirement-in-thailand?page=5d84a44c15e39c26b400453e&menu=5d84a44c15e39c26b400453f

 

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, Thomas72 said:

Is this self-insure option of $100K available to O-A visa holders? If so, I could go that way now.

No.

The O-A requires a mandatory Health Insurance policy of 3,000.000 THB

 

https://washingtondc.thaiembassy.org/en/page/non-oa

7. Health Insurance requirement for Non-Immigrant O-A 

• Effective from 1 October 2021, the applicant must be insured for the entire period of stay in Thailand with the following coverage:
  – Health insurance must cover COVID-19 disease with the total sum insured of no less than 3,000,000 THB or $100,000 per policy year

The applicants must submit the following:

• Health insurance policy document issued by a Thai or foreign insurance company, stating that the applicant is medically insured for the period and with coverage as mentioned above:

(a) In case of a foreign insurance company, the applicant must submit the insurance policy document; Foreign Insurance Certificate as stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and Health Insurance of Thailand, which must be completed, signed, and stamped by the insurance company. The form can be downloaded here: Foreign Insurance Certificate Form. Please contact your insurance company since this Foreign Insurance Certificate is mandatory. 

(b) In the case of a Thai insurance company that is on the list, the applicant must submit the insurance policy document. A list of Thai insurance companies participating in the scheme can be found here: http://longstay.tgia.org

[JimTripper]

8 hours ago, Liquorice said:

Yes.

https://savannakhet.thaiembassy.org/th/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-o-visa-retirement-in-thailand?page=5d84a44c15e39c26b400453e&menu=5d84a44c15e39c26b400453f

 

It says I need a "retirement certificate" from my embassy. Never heard of it. Does it mean proof of social security? Won't get that until I'm much older.

Edited December 15, 2023 by JimTripper

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

It says I need a "retirement certificate" from my embassy. Never heard of it. Does it mean proof of social security? Won't get that until I'm much older.

The US Embassy no longer issue certificates of income as proof of monthly income, which leaves you with the only option of proof of 800K THB equivalent via a bank statement for the Non Imm O ME from Savannahket.

 

It's the same whether applying for a Non O visa type, or an annual extension of stay at local Immigration offices.
You must provide financial proof of supporting yourself for 1 year in Thailand via one means or another.

 

Suffice to say, if you're over 50 but not yet receiving an income from a pension, then generally proof of 800K THB funds is the only option.

[Liquorice]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:58 AM, Thomas72 said:

In the past I always thought the B65k a month method was for people who didn't have the B800,000. I never considered it for simply getting around that requirement.

To extend your permission of stay for 1 year at local Immigration offices based on retirement, there are 4 ways to prove you meet the financial requirements.

1. 800K THB deposited in a Thai commercial bank.
2. Evidence of minimum 65K THB monthly income (pensions, investments, dividends) transfers from overseas to a Thai bank account.
3. An Embassy 'income letter' confirming receipt of the equivalent of 65K per month income from pensions etc. The UK, US and Australian Embassies however no longer issue these 'certificates'.

4. A combination of funds held in a Thai bank account and monthly overseas transfers totalling 800K per annum.

 

Immigration order 35-2561 (2019) lists the options for proof of meeting the financial requirements for annual extensions of stay based on retirement, based on funds, income, or a combination of both.
35-2561 (2019 (changed clause 2.22 of 327-2557 ENG.pdf

 

If using the income method, then Immigration order amending order 138-2557 (2018) lists the 2 acceptable methods, i.e. An Embassy income letter, or monthly overseas transfers to a Thai bank.

Amend 138-2557 (2018 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf

Scroll down to section 2.22 - retirement.

[praguecr]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:35 PM, Thomas72 said:

biervoormij - I currently have 5 year driving licenses (car and motorcycle). They expire in about a year. My plan is to enter on an O-A so I can easily renew them for another 5 years. I also have a yellow book and a pink card.

Excellent thread. Just wondering what is a "yellow book and pink card"? Never heard of either. 

[Thomas72]

12 minutes ago, praguecr said:

Excellent thread. Just wondering what is a "yellow book and pink card"? Never heard of either. 

 

The yellow book is basically a house book for foreigners. With it you don't need certificates of residency to buy cars, open bank accounts, etc. So it's a convenient thing to have.

 

The pink card can be obtained after you have the yellow book. It's exactly like a Thai ID card, but for foreigners (and it's pink instead of white). It's a better ID than a Thai drivers license. If you have government benefits (like health insurance through a Thai spouse), you can swipe your pink card at hospitals just like Thais do. Another benefit of the pink card is it gets you into most places at the Thai rate (parks and other places that have dual pricing). The only place it's ever failed to get me a discount was Ayutthaya. Also, most hotels that ask for a passport will accept a pink card instead. I don't recall ever having to show my passport once I showed the pink card.

 

The level of difficulty in getting each of these varies by province. If you are friendly with any government workers they can help facilitate it (that's how I got mine). Lawyers can also help. Getting the yellow book on your own after a condo purchase is pretty straightforward.

 

Pink cards expire and have to be renewed every 5 years.

 

[Liquorice]

19 minutes ago, praguecr said:

Excellent thread. Just wondering what is a "yellow book and pink card"? Never heard of either. 

If you register your permanent place of residence in Thailand at the local Amphoe, you can obtain a house registration book similar to the Thais Blue house book, only the difference is its yellow, denoting the registration of a foreigner as opposed to a Thai. The foreigner can also obtain a 'pink' ID card specifically for foreigners.

 

There has been much debate over what use these are, but personally I've found them very useful.

[Thomas72]

1 hour ago, Liquorice said:

The US Embassy no longer issue certificates of income as proof of monthly income, which leaves you with the only option of proof of 800K THB equivalent via a bank statement for the Non Imm O ME from Savannahket.

 

It's the same whether applying for a Non O visa type, or an annual extension of stay at local Immigration offices.
You must provide financial proof of supporting yourself for 1 year in Thailand via one means or another.

 

Suffice to say, if you're over 50 but not yet receiving an income from a pension, then generally proof of 800K THB funds is the only option.

 

What's confusing about the link you posted Liquorice is it doesn't say "OR" between points 4 and 5. But I've seen the actual form you fill out and the form does say "OR".

 

[Liquorice]

15 minutes ago, Thomas72 said:

 

What's confusing about the link you posted Liquorice is it doesn't say "OR" between points 4 and 5. But I've seen the actual form you fill out and the form does say "OR".

 

If you come across a Thai website or form written in Thailish that can't cause confusion, please let me know.   

 

That's because there is no 'OR' between 4 and 5.

 

4. Bank Statement (minimum of THB 800,000) or Certification of Income (minimum of THB 65,000 monthly)

5.A pension letter or a prove of retirement issued by the applicant's Embassy/Consulate 

 

4 is evidence of meeting the financial requirement.

5 is providing evidence of being retired and/or in receipt of a pension, which is applicable to using the income method.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Liquorice

[Liquorice]

40 minutes ago, Thomas72 said:

It's exactly like a Thai ID card, but for foreigners (and it's pink instead of white). It's a better ID than a Thai drivers license. If you have government benefits (like health insurance through a Thai spouse), you can swipe your pink card at hospitals just like Thais do. Another benefit of the pink card is it gets you into most places at the Thai rate (parks and other places that have dual pricing).

I'd agree with your sentiments, other than the pink ID card for foreigners does not have a biometric chip, as the blue Thai ID card has, nor a barcode for swiping the card.
Indeed, at my local government hospital, when I registered, they issued a separate hospital card with a barcode which they can swipe.
Otherwise, they have to manually input my issued Thai ID number from the pink card.

 

Also, the pink ID card is only renewed every 5 years up until age 60 at which point it's then valid for life with no expiry date, the same as Thai ID cards.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Liquorice

[Thomas72]

4 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Indeed, at my local government hospital, when I registered, they issued a separate hospital card with a barcode which they can swipe.
Otherwise, they have to manually input my issued Thai ID number from the pink card.

Hmm. I've used my Pink card at hospitals and never had to input numbers. Maybe they did it for me and I didn't notice. But anyway, the effect is the same.

 

For me, I had government insurance and the hospitals told me the *only* way I could use it was via a pink card, to interface with their systems. They said a passport number couldn't be linked to government insurance, and thus, no way to look up my eligibility unless I had a pink card. They also said I couldn't use a separate hospital card. It had to be a pink card.

[Liquorice]

15 minutes ago, Thomas72 said:

For me, I had government insurance and the hospitals told me the *only* way I could use it was via a pink card, to interface with their systems. They said a passport number couldn't be linked to government insurance, and thus, no way to look up my eligibility unless I had a pink card. They also said I couldn't use a separate hospital card. It had to be a pink card.

I'm not covered by any government insurance, but I am, where applicable, charged the same as Thais.

[oldcpu]

5 hours ago, Thomas72 said:

 

The yellow book is basically a house book for foreigners. With it you don't need certificates of residency to buy cars, open bank accounts, etc. So it's a convenient thing to have.

 

 

Further to Thomas72 excellent post, and Liquorice further comment (after age-60 the pink card is valid for life - and I am over age-60), one further benefit I had by having a yellow book and a pink card, is a Bangkok Bank branch required such for me to purchase a Thai government savings bond. 

 

Without that, they were not going to let me buy a Thai government bond from their branch.  That could very well be branch specific for all I know. 

 

Fortunately I had both yellow book and pink "ID" card.

 

Let me also say I do NOT consider Thai government bonds a great investment (the one I bought only gives 3% interest).  I had to buy some bonds to add to my existing amount (for a Thailand investment) to get an LTR-WP Visa.

 

Another possible benefit < unsure > - by registering my name at the local city hall (via my yellow book) with my name against the condominium I own, I do not have to pay annual tax on my condo, as I live in the place full time.  I think one is allowed to own a place up to 50-million THB (mine is worth far less) and not pay tax on the place, if it is one's principle residence. But legally it has to be registered in city hall against one's name.  My wife walked me through the process at the city hall, and according to her, I could not have done this if I did not have a yellow book. I do NOT know if that is accurate. She has been wrong before.  But for certain my having the yellow book made the house registration (so not to pay tax) easy.  So maybe ... maybe ... it saved me having to pay annual tax on my condo.

 

This is all very obscure, and I believe that both a yellow book and a pink ID are not needed for almost all expats - but every now and then, having such can come in handy.

 

[Pattaya57]

What a derailed thread, went from O-A visa to non-imm O in Laos and now yellow book and pink card

 

I want the 5 minutes of my life back that I was trying to read about O-A visa 😆 

[JimTripper]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

What a derailed thread, went from O-A visa to non-imm O in Laos and now yellow book and pink card

 

I want the 5 minutes of my life back that I was trying to read about O-A visa 😆 

We don't like talking about the O-A visa. It's bad. 🤣

[Pattaya57]

12 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

We don't like talking about the O-A visa. It's bad. 🤣

Well I'm getting one next month and I think it's the best for a 2 year no immigration hassle and no thai cash deposit visa 😀

 

I'm also sort of happy it makes me get a health insurance policy as I've spent 15 months in Thailand last 2 years without insurance as mainly on visa exempt (one TV)

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Pattaya57

[JimTripper]

9 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Well I'm getting one next month and I think it's the best for a 2 year no immigration hassle and no thai cash deposit visa😀

 

I'm also sort of happy it makes me get a health insurance policy as I've spent 15 months in Thailand last 2 years without insurance as mainly on visa exempt (one TV)

There are a lot of trolls on here that don't like it because they can't afford health insurance.

Edited December 15, 2023 by JimTripper

[CANSIAM]

On 12/13/2023 at 7:31 AM, Thomas72 said:

I'm getting ready to return to Thailand and an O-A retirement visa is an option for me (US Citizen). I'm aware of everything I need to do to get it.

 

I have a few questions about potential pitfalls surrounding the O-A visa:

 

1. If I come in O-A and effectively stay 2 years (exit/reenter the last day the visa is valid for another year period of stay), can I then apply for a regular extension of stay based on retirement at the local immigration office (B800,000 in the bank, and all the other requirements having being met).

 

2. If #1 is true, is the health insurance requirement then dropped?

 

3. If #1 is not true, can I just hop to Laos/Vietnam and get an 90 day O visa based on retirement, enter Thailand without health insurance, and then get a 1 year of extension of stay.

 

4. Related to #3, are there any reports of people on O-A, who switched to O, who then ran into problems on entry regarding insurance?

 

I know the O-A isn't that popular nowadays. But as a returning expat, I like being able to keep my money in America for the first 2 years. I like being setup (visa-wise) for the first 2 years. I like entering Thailand on a visa that allows 5 year driver licenses and bank account opening right after I land. The health insurance requirement for me is about B5000 a year - so it's not onerous. I'll gladly pay that B10,000 for my first 2 years back in Thailand. But if I do it, at some point in the future I would like to convert to an O, drop the insurance, and not have any problems down the road.

 

Thanks,

 

Thomas

 

 

 

You could also apply for a 90 day Non O state side instead.  Gives you 90 days to get organized if you do not have a Thai bank account yet for extensions on the Non O.  If arriving with an O-A visa, all of your future extensions based on the OA will require valid health insurance, you will be given an extension of stay stamp to the expiry date of your current health insurance, so its quite possible you will not get 1 year if you do not align your health insurance start date near the same time as your immigration extension visit.... 

[Pattaya57]

14 minutes ago, CANSIAM said:

You could also apply for a 90 day Non O state side instead.  Gives you 90 days to get organized if you do not have a Thai bank account yet for extensions on the Non O. 

Not sure about US but in Australia the 90 day non-imm O also requires 90 day health insurance. When I went to all the Thai approved insurers most said they do not do 90 day cover.  I found one that did and it was 3 times the cost of the 12 Month O-A insurance

 

So this was a useless option in Australia

[CANSIAM]

15 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

Not sure about US but in Australia the 90 day non-imm O also requires 90 day health insurance. When I went to all the Thai approved insurers most said they do not do 90 day cover.  I found one that did and it was 3 times the cost of the 12 Month O-A insurance

 

So this was a useless option in Australia

Yeah thats ridiculous, don't think the 90 day Russian freebee  requires health insurance. In my case I arrived on an OA during Covid times, left and returned with a Non O using existing OA insurance for the Non O application. Just align your health insurance start date as close as you can on your OA extensions........  all good ! 

Edited December 15, 2023 by CANSIAM

[Thomas72]

2 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

You could also apply for a 90 day Non O state side instead.  Gives you 90 days to get organized if you do not have a Thai bank account yet for extensions on the Non O.  

 

This is a good option, now that I know 1 year non-O ME retirement visas are easy to get from Savannakhet without a Thai bank account.

 

I went through the process on the Thai evisa website. All the steps were pretty straightforward. They wanted:

 

1. Passport upload

2. Picture upload

3. Arrival date, departure date, port of arrival

4. Flight number (don't have to upload a document)

5. Hotel staying at (name/city/zip only, no document upload)

 

Then on the final screen, this:

 

 

#1 and #2 are pre-populated from your previous steps.

 

#3 is unclear and there's no guidelines or a help link. I guess I would upload a driver's license first and see what they come back with.

 

#4 should just be a bank statement. And judging from this recent report, it needs to be over $30K.

 

No indication of insurance required.

 

This is the final screen. The button says "Done". I didn't go past this, as my travel dates are not set in stone yet.

 

 

 

[Pattaya57]

6 hours ago, Thomas72 said:

This is a good option, now that I know 1 year non-O ME retirement visas are easy to get from Savannakhet without a Thai bank account.

So are you saying you'll get a non-imm O from US and then apply for a 12 month non-imm O ME from Laos?

 

I personally would hate to be made to leave the country every 90 days  which is why O-A sounds so much better to me if aim is to not transfer 800k baht to Thai bank

[Thomas72]

6 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

So are you saying you'll get a non-imm O from US and then apply for a 12 month non-imm O ME from Laos?

 

I personally would hate to be made to leave the country every 90 days  which is why O-A sounds so much better to me if aim is to not transfer 800k baht to Thai bank

 

I like to travel. I spend a lot of time in Cambodia and Vietnam. I travel *at least* every 90 days, sometimes more. I also want to start travelling the Philippines more. Perpetual 90 day visas/entries are suitable for me - at least for now. If I slow down in the future I'll look at 1 year visa/extension options.

 

And yes, another aim of mine is to not transfer B800k into a Thai bank - so this works out for me too.