Jimjim Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) It could be a problem, but hard to know the extent of the problem just by listening to some faceless voices on an internet forum with nothing but anecdotal proof. Reading news that is biased and picks and chooses stories doesn't help either. Not a very scientific way to make an argument that mob beatings are a real problem in Thailand. Edited July 19, 2007 by Jimjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doza Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Mate, we all know the extent of it because you read it here, you see it on the news, I have even seen it on AXN's Extreme Video of X Factor or whatever, you read about it in the papers, and sometimes you or your friends have had it happen to you or seen it. And sooner or later you realise it happens here much more than back in farangland. If you don't realise that, nobody cares. Its clear here that most people realise it. Noone is interested in finding scientific 'proof' (how would that exist anyway???!!! Strange comment) to convince to faceless internet dude named JimJim of the issue. go find your own proof. Or better still, just keep your eyes open and sooner or later you'll realise it too. Or not....but who cares whether you can see it ir not. Not me... Edited July 19, 2007 by Doza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithson Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Anybody have any more info? Or a link to the other thread on the same story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimjim Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Smithson, that thread has been merged with this one. They are one and the same. Doza, you're making my whole point for me. You can't really say or prove if it happens here more than somewhere else, you just think it does. You faultily make the argument that just because you believe this, others are in the wrong. This is not the case. But, you know, a couple of months ago in a pool bar I saw some foreigner arguing heatedly with a girl and then a local went over and got in his face and told him to stop and then they started fighting. Another local came over while the other guy held him and started bashing his face in. They then were ushered quickly outside by others and while, on the street, the foreigner got knocked down and a small mob kicked him in his ribs and face until some stopped the fight. The police never showed up as none of the locals cared to call them. It wasn't reported in the news. The foreigner was an Israeli. So, yeah, maybe you're right. Except that this happened in Seattle, U.S.A. Could there have been some animosity to this guy because he was a foreigner and added heat to the fight. Sure? This could be the case in some of these so-called mob beatings in Thailand. A lot of times a bunch of men gang up on someone from a different country or someone different than them. It has been such a problem in the U.S. that they made hate crimes. KKK, anyone? There's not much you can say that proves it happens in Thailand more than anywhere else. It's probably more likely that you notice it more because it may happen in higher frequency when it involves a foreigner, and you are foreigner in Thailand. Edited July 19, 2007 by Jimjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doza Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Yeah whatever. Its like one person saying: "you know, Thai people are more polite than other nationalities generally - its my experience, my friends share the same comments, I read it regularly on the interenet so i know others have the same perception and its sometimes written about in the newspapers" and the other one saying "I don't think they are, give me scientific proof they are more polite than anyone else. Maybe you just notice it more because of xyz? I will not accept that Thai people in general are more polite than any other nationlaity unless you give me scientific proof?. How can I just believe anecdotes?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Yeah whatever. Its like one person saying: "you know, Thai people are more polite than other nationalities generally - its my experience, my friends share the same comments, I read it regularly on the interenet so i know others have the same perception and its sometimes written about in the newspapers" and the other one saying "I don't think they are, give me scientific proof they are more polite than anyone else. Maybe you just notice it more because of xyz? I will not accept that Thai people in general are more polite than any other nationlaity unless you give me scientific proof?. How can I just believe anecdotes?" Maybe we can have a double blind randomised study sending JimJim to ask for a square go with a Thai while his mates look on ;-) That will be anecdotal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 The beatings took place in Nakon Sawan which is a double whammy for most Thais who are somewhat nervous of the place because it has both an army base and a prison. The beatings were given by soldiers whilst the police just stood by powerless to intervene - it looks like the old police versus army tale of territories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 The beatings took place in Nakon Sawan which is a double whammy for most Thais who are somewhat nervous of the place because it has both an army base and a prison. The beatings were given by soldiers whilst the police just stood by powerless to intervene - it looks like the old police versus army tale of territories. And its not just since the coup where the police give way to the army in this type of thing in Nakon Sawan or wherever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 So, other than broad generalizations, does anyone have any new concrete information to offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermin on arrival Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Mob beatings can happen anywhere, but anyone who thinks he will get into a one on one fight here is deluding himself. You will find yourself under a pile of Thai men, kicking the c#$@ out of you. I believe this would be the case in other more group oriented cultures as well, such as Korea. Unfortunately, I don't have anything to offer than a broad generalization. Apologies, sbk. It would be nice if someone were to come up with a translation of one of the Thai newspaper articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamianMavis Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I go to Thai bars fairly often, if I dont see another falang all night I'm happy. So I watch Thais fight with eachother, and it's always always always a group on one. I've never even heard of a fight between 2 men in this country... it just doesnt seem to happen, and there are lotsa fights. If you want to argue this go ahead, but I know what I see. I am a professional martial artsit and I don't DARE get into a fight with Thai people, I will lose, I can't fight some dude and his 10 friends and get away without serious injury, I just can't. So I swallow my pride and keep smiling. I don't think it's a phenomenon aimed at falangs though, it is just the way it is done here, they do it to eachother waaaaay more than they do it to us. Damian Mavis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 OK, got my husband to read the Komchadluek article. Thomas Donald Patrick is a staff coach with the Tottenham Hotspurs. He was in a restaurant with a group of Thais when his group got into an argument with another group of Thais. According to the article Mr Patrick and his friends were drunk and making trouble. An argument and brawl ensued. Someone in his group stabbed a young man in the other group and he is in the hospital, fairly serious. 9-10 people were involved in the brawl, and one soldier has been arrested. Apparently the police are looking for Mr Patrick, who was not badly injured, to hear his role in the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mid Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Thai soldier arrested after gang attack on 3 British tourists 2007-07-19 11:26:29 - Police arrested a Thai soldier for participating in an attack by 30 men on three British tourists as they ate at a food stall north of the Thai capital, police said Thursday.Thomas Donald Patrick suffered a cracked skull after he and two friends were attacked in Nakorn Sawan province, about 210 kilometers (130 miles) north of Bangkok, said police Col. Pranom Manmuang. A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons as they dined at a roadside food stall Sunday morning, Pranom said. Patrick and two other men _ William Paul Stone and Francis Benjamin Peter _ were taken to a hospital. But the same group of attackers stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived, Pranom said. Pranom said Patrick's condition was stable, adding the two other Britons were slightly injured. Responding to questions about the attack, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the incident must be thoroughly investigated by police and the army. «I believe it will not affect the image of the Thai army as it was more of an isolated incident that involved individuals. The Thai army does not encourage their men to act like hooligans,» Surayud said. On Thursday, police arrested and charged Sgt. Chinaphong Prakobketkorn and another Thai man, Nattapan Jirapong, with assault. The suspects face a maximum seven years in jail if found guilty. Police were searching for other suspects. pr-inside.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Thai soldier arrested after gang attack on 3 British tourists2007-07-19 11:26:29 - Police arrested a Thai soldier for participating in an attack by 30 men on three British tourists as they ate at a food stall north of the Thai capital, police said Thursday.Thomas Donald Patrick suffered a cracked skull after he and two friends were attacked in Nakorn Sawan province, about 210 kilometers (130 miles) north of Bangkok, said police Col. Pranom Manmuang. A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons as they dined at a roadside food stall Sunday morning, Pranom said. Patrick and two other men _ William Paul Stone and Francis Benjamin Peter _ were taken to a hospital. But the same group of attackers stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived, Pranom said. Pranom said Patrick's condition was stable, adding the two other Britons were slightly injured. Responding to questions about the attack, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the incident must be thoroughly investigated by police and the army. «I believe it will not affect the image of the Thai army as it was more of an isolated incident that involved individuals. The Thai army does not encourage their men to act like hooligans,» Surayud said. On Thursday, police arrested and charged Sgt. Chinaphong Prakobketkorn and another Thai man, Nattapan Jirapong, with assault. The suspects face a maximum seven years in jail if found guilty. Police were searching for other suspects. pr-inside.com Well if this has got as far as the PM it can only be a good thing and something will be done about it! I wonder how it got that far though? - we have had numerous slayings of foreigners and not a word from higher ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I go to Thai bars fairly often, if I dont see another falang all night I'm happy. So I watch Thais fight with eachother, and it's always always always a group on one. I've never even heard of a fight between 2 men in this country... it just doesnt seem to happen, and there are lotsa fights. If you want to argue this go ahead, but I know what I see. I am a professional martial artsit and I don't DARE get into a fight with Thai people, I will lose, I can't fight some dude and his 10 friends and get away without serious injury, I just can't. So I swallow my pride and keep smiling. I don't think it's a phenomenon aimed at falangs though, it is just the way it is done here, they do it to eachother waaaaay more than they do it to us.Damian Mavis Yup - I think you pretty much nailed it there! They go mob handed at anyone - even if they can win alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 OK, got my husband to read the Komchadluek article.Thomas Donald Patrick is a staff coach with the Tottenham Hotspurs. He was in a restaurant with a group of Thais when his group got into an argument with another group of Thais. According to the article Mr Patrick and his friends were drunk and making trouble. An argument and brawl ensued. Someone in his group stabbed a young man in the other group and he is in the hospital, fairly serious. 9-10 people were involved in the brawl, and one soldier has been arrested. Apparently the police are looking for Mr Patrick, who was not badly injured, to hear his role in the incident. Mid's post the next one down has Mr Patrick in the hospital with a cracked skull! Seargant Nop of the sweep it under the carpet brigade (Thanks you Crutch) is not doing well but probably its the reporters as the PM seems to know his wherabouts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 OK, got my husband to read the Komchadluek article.Thomas Donald Patrick is a staff coach with the Tottenham Hotspurs. He was in a restaurant with a group of Thais when his group got into an argument with another group of Thais. According to the article Mr Patrick and his friends were drunk and making trouble. An argument and brawl ensued. Someone in his group stabbed a young man in the other group and he is in the hospital, fairly serious. 9-10 people were involved in the brawl, and one soldier has been arrested. Apparently the police are looking for Mr Patrick, who was not badly injured, to hear his role in the incident. Mid's post the next one down has Mr Patrick in the hospital with a cracked skull! Seargant Nop of the sweep it under the carpet brigade (Thanks you Crutch) is not doing well but probably its the reporters as the PM seems to know his wherabouts! That was the general gist of the article as he read it out to me, he didn't go over it word for word, just skimmed it, and gave me pertinent details. I asked him if the article said anything about them returning to the hospital to attack him again and he said there wasn't anything in the article about that. I always find these Thai newspaper stories odd myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Thai soldier arrested after gang attack on 3 British tourists2007-07-19 11:26:29 - Police arrested a Thai soldier for participating in an attack by 30 men on three British tourists as they ate at a food stall north of the Thai capital, police said Thursday.Thomas Donald Patrick suffered a cracked skull after he and two friends were attacked in Nakorn Sawan province, about 210 kilometers (130 miles) north of Bangkok, said police Col. Pranom Manmuang. A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons as they dined at a roadside food stall Sunday morning, Pranom said. Patrick and two other men _ William Paul Stone and Francis Benjamin Peter _ were taken to a hospital. But the same group of attackers stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived, Pranom said. Pranom said Patrick's condition was stable, adding the two other Britons were slightly injured. Responding to questions about the attack, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the incident must be thoroughly investigated by police and the army. «I believe it will not affect the image of the Thai army as it was more of an isolated incident that involved individuals. The Thai army does not encourage their men to act like hooligans,» Surayud said. On Thursday, police arrested and charged Sgt. Chinaphong Prakobketkorn and another Thai man, Nattapan Jirapong, with assault. The suspects face a maximum seven years in jail if found guilty. Police were searching for other suspects. pr-inside.com I can understand fights and how they start, but the group storming into a hospital AFTER the beating and start beating again is something beyond anyone's civilized imagination............? LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiamSquare123 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) sorry but mob beatings are definitely more common in thailand. a few times when my wife has had a problem with someone she mentioned "ill just get all of my cousins and their friends to fight him". there is no way that she would actually do this, but i do think it shows you that it is something common in thailand, because it always comes out of her mouth as a natural instinct. while i have never seen it with my own eyes, i have heard story after story. Edited July 19, 2007 by SiamSquare123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceboy Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Thai soldier arrested after gang attack on 3 British tourists2007-07-19 11:26:29 - Police arrested a Thai soldier for participating in an attack by 30 men on three British tourists as they ate at a food stall north of the Thai capital, police said Thursday.Thomas Donald Patrick suffered a cracked skull after he and two friends were attacked in Nakorn Sawan province, about 210 kilometers (130 miles) north of Bangkok, said police Col. Pranom Manmuang. A group of about 30 Thai men, including a soldier, began kicking and punching the three Britons as they dined at a roadside food stall Sunday morning, Pranom said. Patrick and two other men _ William Paul Stone and Francis Benjamin Peter _ were taken to a hospital. But the same group of attackers stormed the hospital room and continued to beat them until police arrived, Pranom said. Pranom said Patrick's condition was stable, adding the two other Britons were slightly injured. Responding to questions about the attack, Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said the incident must be thoroughly investigated by police and the army. «I believe it will not affect the image of the Thai army as it was more of an isolated incident that involved individuals. The Thai army does not encourage their men to act like hooligans,» Surayud said. On Thursday, police arrested and charged Sgt. Chinaphong Prakobketkorn and another Thai man, Nattapan Jirapong, with assault. The suspects face a maximum seven years in jail if found guilty. Police were searching for other suspects. pr-inside.com I can understand fights and how they start, but the group storming into a hospital AFTER the beating and start beating again is something beyond anyone's civilized imagination............? LaoPo Good point. Thugs brawling in a bar is one thing but to enter a hospital and attack someone while nurses are present is disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Funny, I just read some online article about how some fans of Britney Spears saw her outside a restaurant (or something) in LA and when some girl yelled out she was b!tch, the 5 fans (all girls) jumped the first girl, then the boyfriends got involved and it ended up as a free for all brawl. For something that stupid. Then there are the English footballers who ganged up and beat up an Indian man in the street. Sorry, can't remember how many of them there were, but he was only one guy. google mob crime england, and you'd be surprised how many articles come up. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle1969082.ece http://www.ligali.org/article.php?id=449 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4068013.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Funny, I just read some online article about how some fans of Britney Spears saw her outside a restaurant (or something) in LA and when some girl yelled out she was b!tch, the 5 fans (all girls) jumped the first girl, then the boyfriends got involved and it ended up as a free for all brawl. For something that stupid. Then there are the English footballers who ganged up and beat up an Indian man in the street. Sorry, can't remember how many of them there were, but he was only one guy. google mob crime england, and you'd be surprised how many articles come up. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle1969082.ece http://www.ligali.org/article.php?id=449 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4068013.stm To be honest, sbk, I didn't open your links. If I can avoid reading about brutal violence, I do so. But....a group of attackers storming into a Hospital and re-start the beating......is something I never heard/learned about before, where ever. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibeymai Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) gotta admit storming a hospital is a first for Thailand, or anywhere I've heard. Wonder what time span was between the two events. Makes me think if the same would have happened if it was not farangs involved. Somehow I doubt it. Edited July 19, 2007 by sibeymai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptou Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 i remember whilst travelling in vietnam i noticed in a guide book about the country it warned you to never get in a fight with a local as it would be almost certain that a group of his freinds would appear to give a hand. i think sticking a uniform on a male in this part of the world can be dangerous. who knows what sort of provocation was occuring on either side though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermin on arrival Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Sbk, Again, as I said before there is mob violence everywhere, but I believe it is much more prevalent here(and in other more group oriented asian societies) than in the west. I really think that you are downplaying this too much. I understand that you are trying to provide some balance. Someone brought up the Rodney King beating before where 5 cops got nailed beating up an african american(by a bystander with a hidden video camera). Yes, it happened, but did the cops then go to the hospital and beat him up some more afterwards? Those cops also all ended up in the middle of a s*** storm. Maybe the 3 British tourists did something bad, but 30 vs 3 is a bit much, don't you think? I'm really surprised that your Thai paper's report was so different from the one posted by mid. A cracked skull is certainly not a minor injury. Why do you think that is the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaiWai Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Sbk, Again, as I said before there is mob violence everywhere, but I believe it is much more prevalent here(and in other more group oriented asian societies) than in the west. I really think that you are downplaying this too much. I understand that you are trying to provide some balance. I tend to agree. UK soccer hooliganism & the extensive reporting thereof might explain a number of the UK results (?). Change "mob" to "gang" (US English) and you'll get slightly different figures, too. I wonder, too, if the notion that many (?) crimes in the US are gang-related is something that can be assumed might explain the absence of the term in news reports, while in other countries where it's less common it needs to be stated. I really just wish to highlight the fact that statistics are not always an adequate way to tell a story. It is indeed scary that the victim was not safe in a hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qualtrough Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 But....a group of attackers storming into a Hospital and re-start the beating......is something I never heard/learned about before, where ever.LaoPo LaoPo, you need to get out more. I found the following article is less than 10 seconds. Over the years there have been numerous attacks and murders in hospitals in the US by individual and groups. Excepted from the ENN Daily Report - 11/24/96 - Vol. 2, No. 329 Nurse Shot in Hospital Incident By C.L. Staten, ERRI Analyst (ENN) Washington, DC -- Both a nurse and a gunshot victim he was trying to help were shot Saturday night, as they tried to bring the victim into the emergency room at the Hadley Memorial Hospital in Southeast Washington. According to police reports, when the victim was brought to the emergency room door by witnesses to his shooting, a male nurse came out to help and was attempting to load him on a hospital gurney. As he did so, another vehicle, possibly containing the original suspect in the shooting, pulled up and fired several additional shots at the good Samaritan and the victim. The nurse was struck in the legs and the original victim was again struck several times in the torso. The suspect successfully escaped the scene without apprehension. No firm motive for the shooting has been established. Hospital security experts say that this sad scenario is more familiar than one might imagine, and that the level of violence in and around hospital emergency facilities continues to rise on a yearly basis. One security guard, at Cook County Hospital in Chicago, told ENN that it is common for them to be called upon to try to stop "gang retaliation" attacks in the emergency room, and that rivals have even tried to break into the restricted Trauma Center area to finish their deadly work. Publicized attacks on hospital personnel in Southern California have also further pointed out the need for expanded security measures. ERRI analysts strongly recommend that all hospital security personnel assess the potential for gang-related violence and establish procedures for isolating victims from potential threats. © EmergencyNet News Service, 1996 -All rights reserved. Unauthorized redistribution is prohibited by law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prakanong Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Sbk, Again, as I said before there is mob violence everywhere, but I believe it is much more prevalent here(and in other more group oriented asian societies) than in the west. I really think that you are downplaying this too much. I understand that you are trying to provide some balance. I tend to agree. UK soccer hooliganism & the extensive reporting thereof might explain a number of the UK results (?). Change "mob" to "gang" (US English) and you'll get slightly different figures, too. I wonder, too, if the notion that many (?) crimes in the US are gang-related is something that can be assumed might explain the absence of the term in news reports, while in other countries where it's less common it needs to be stated. I really just wish to highlight the fact that statistics are not always an adequate way to tell a story. It is indeed scary that the victim was not safe in a hospital. Closest I can remember in the UK was where the Romainai/East European gang killed another int the back of an ambulance in London after a gang fight. That was very much crime related though ie turf and drugs/extortion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaoPo Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 But....a group of attackers storming into a Hospital and re-start the beating......is something I never heard/learned about before, where ever.LaoPo LaoPo, you need to get out more. I found the following article is less than 10 seconds. Over the years there have been numerous attacks and murders in hospitals in the US by individual and groups. I agree... But I also said: "I never heard/learned about before, where ever." and I didn't 'Google' nor read your graphic descriptions what you found.... But, yes, there's more out there than I anticipated, unfortunately. LaoPo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maipleur Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Thai men hunt in packs, its well known.. If you need scientific evidence, you are just being pedantic.. Go out side and look at any fight that starts, particulary a Thai against a farang - its so common , its laughable that people disagree. Just living here for 6 months, should be enough proof. Edited July 19, 2007 by maipleur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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