Anyone Heard Of This

[sbk]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

[kmart]

During brief stints in Vietnam and China I was surprised at how quickly fights break out, sometimes over nothing; sometimes in the workplace; etc. Thailand seems very laid back and tranquil by comparison.

[ColPyat]

During brief stints in Vietnam and China I was surprised at how quickly fights break out, sometimes over nothing; sometimes in the workplace; etc. Thailand seems very laid back and tranquil by comparison.

During many stints in China i have noticed also that there are many fights. Nevertheless, the ones i have seen are mostly limited to pushing and widely flying fists mostly missing the target. The many fights i have seen here in Thailand have been generally extremely vicous in nature, and resulted more often than not in serious injuries.

Also, the amount of weapons here in Thailand are far higher than in China.

Just personal impressions.

Edited July 21, 2007 by ColPyat

[ColPyat]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

There are several patterns there. Yes, i see clearly what you mean.

But "outrage" rarely serves as an explanation, and i prefer to stay as far as possible away from such emotive expressions. If one looks deep enough there are logical explanations for everything without having to resort to simplistic racial stereotyping.

[dttk0009]

This thread is so full of stereotyping and generalizations that it makes me nauseous.

The only 'gang vs 1' fight I've ever seen happened in Ontario, Canada, and I've been in Thailand for quite some time.

[girlx]

the worst place I've ever been to, East New York

ha, i accidentally got off at the east new york stop of the subway one time. went outside and wandered around (a young solo white girl)... i just had to cross the street to get to the station going in the opposite direction, but that trek across the street was one of the scariest of my life!

[meemiathai]

I may be more likely to end up in a fight in the UK pub at the weekend without antagonising someone, but I'd feel way more confident about getting away from it standing or not being seriously hurt.

Do you think Tony Jaa can say the same? he being in a UK bar?

[tijnebijn]

I have read some comments on this topic . I think everybody is a bit right .

In my experience it is very unlikely you get in trouble in Thailand for nothing . Thai people are in general

much more relaxed , when making eye contact with a stranger for example . I have never had a response like

what are you looking at . In the West this happens more occasionally , people in the west are much more frustrated

many times with no reason at all . Although in Thailand when they do get craze it is for real ! To kill you or very seriously injured I have seen time by time . But in Bangkok you can walk at night time with no serious frightening feeling , Take a major city in the West , you understand what I mean , it is also the look in the eyes , the behavior on the streets .

In Thailand there are many dangerous areas , but I talk about the general feeling and the attitude of Thai people .

That's why there is , in my opinion , less likely to get in trouble then almost anywhere . Unless you are very provocative .

[howtoescape]

Farangs fight to win Thais fight to kill, these words came out of the mouth of a Thai.

[SiamSquare123]

it is a great thing in my opinion that guns are much more scarce in thailand then they are in western countries like the usa. you saw that photo of the technical college gangs being arrested at victory monument and the huge pile of "coconut cutting" machette knifes?

another good thing thailand has going for it is that the poliece seem to do a good job of controlling illegal activity and preventing gangs to rise into power. there arent any crips or bloods in thailand as far as i know. the thai police are much more informed about these illegal matters then the police are in the west.

Edited July 21, 2007 by SiamSquare123

[SiamSquare123]

I have read some comments on this topic . I think everybody is a bit right .

In my experience it is very unlikely you get in trouble in Thailand for nothing . Thai people are in general

much more relaxed , when making eye contact with a stranger for example . I have never had a response like

what are you looking at . In the West this happens more occasionally , people in the west are much more frustrated

many times with no reason at all . Although in Thailand when they do get craze it is for real ! To kill you or very seriously injured I have seen time by time . But in Bangkok you can walk at night time with no serious frightening feeling , Take a major city in the West , you understand what I mean , it is also the look in the eyes , the behavior on the streets .

In Thailand there are many dangerous areas , but I talk about the general feeling and the attitude of Thai people .

That's why there is , in my opinion , less likely to get in trouble then almost anywhere . Unless you are very provocative .

this makes sense until you add alcohol into the mix. then it all goes out the window.

[Prakanong]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

Well thats an interesting viewpoint - as we have not commented on a horrendous murder we somehow condone it?

Defending Thai's may be your pastime but thats a bit much I must say

[sbk]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

Well thats an interesting viewpoint - as we have not commented on a horrendous murder we somehow condone it?

Defending Thai's may be your pastime but thats a bit much I must say

Nope, just an interesting observation that when it is Thai on Farang the broad generalizations and racist comments abound, but when an Englishman does something horrific, the response tends to be muted.

[tijnebijn]

I have read some comments on this topic . I think everybody is a bit right .

In my experience it is very unlikely you get in trouble in Thailand for nothing . Thai people are in general

much more relaxed , when making eye contact with a stranger for example . I have never had a response like

what are you looking at . In the West this happens more occasionally , people in the west are much more frustrated

many times with no reason at all . Although in Thailand when they do get craze it is for real ! To kill you or very seriously injured I have seen time by time . But in Bangkok you can walk at night time with no serious frightening feeling , Take a major city in the West , you understand what I mean , it is also the look in the eyes , the behavior on the streets .

In Thailand there are many dangerous areas , but I talk about the general feeling and the attitude of Thai people .

That's why there is , in my opinion , less likely to get in trouble then almost anywhere . Unless you are very provocative .

this makes sense until you add alcohol into the mix. then it all goes out the window.

I disagree with that . Almost everywhere you go Thais do drink alcohol allready . Lots of alcohol consumption ,

no matter who drinks and is very emotionally in need and frustrated by that , when agressively provocating that ,

is very likely to make a conversation or problem to escalate . But I said generally speaking , Thais

not are very agressive at all also when drinking . Although off the road countryside villages can turn very drastic (lao kao) .

But this is my opinion .

[vermin on arrival]

the worst place I've ever been to, East New York

ha, i accidentally got off at the east new york stop of the subway one time. went outside and wandered around (a young solo white girl)... i just had to cross the street to get to the station going in the opposite direction, but that trek across the street was one of the scariest of my life!

Yeah, it is really amazing how bad this place was. The subway station had a police precinct for the transit police, and every time I was going through the station, I saw people who were being arrested, and on the way into the station. The crime rate was so high that they had the police buses, mobile processing units, driving around. When it got dark, the gangs came out.

My work ended after 6PM so it was dark when things finished, and my work was outdoors. I remember walking back to meet the rest of the crew, and the boss, a black african said, "someone drive this guy to the train station, he's too white to be walking around this neighborhood at night." Race relations can be quite bad in the States.

There were almost no businesses in the neighborhood, and blocks filled with burnt out buildings or square blocks which had only one building standing on them.

I guess you were there in the daytime, huh girlx?

Edited July 21, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[vermin on arrival]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

I for one didn't notice the other thread. Does that make me bad?

[TheWalkingMan]

...

another good thing thailand has going for it is that the poliece seem to do a good job of controlling illegal activity and preventing gangs to rise into power. there arent any crips or bloods in thailand as far as i know. the thai police are much more informed about these illegal matters then the police are in the west.

One of the reasons, and this is just based on the things I have read, is that the police have their fingers in most of the pies. And if another gang tries to rise to power without the tea money it would be squashed like a bug. Think about it, everything is controlled then the level of violence would not increase. In the west, not as many police seem to have their fingers in the pies and hence more gang activity as the police are not able to "guide" the participants.

TheWalkingMan

[sbk]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

I for one didn't notice the other thread. Does that make me bad?

see my above response. I think that about says it all. Doesn't matter if you in particular noticed the thread, its the general response. All Thais are bad, cowards etc etc etc when violence against a farang occurs but when its the other way around the response tends to be less prolific and vitriolic.

[WaiWai]

Where is this "other thread", please ?

[vermin on arrival]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

I for one didn't notice the other thread. Does that make me bad?

see my above response. I think that about says it all. Doesn't matter if you in particular noticed the thread, its the general response. All Thais are bad, cowards etc etc etc when violence against a farang occurs but when its the other way around the response tends to be less prolific and vitriolic.

Have I once in any of my posts here said that all thais are cowards or bad? Please show me where I might have said this. Or am I overreacting to your comment?

Edited July 21, 2007 by vermin on arrival

[sbk]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

I for one didn't notice the other thread. Does that make me bad?

see my above response. I think that about says it all. Doesn't matter if you in particular noticed the thread, its the general response. All Thais are bad, cowards etc etc etc when violence against a farang occurs but when its the other way around the response tends to be less prolific and vitriolic.

Have I once in any of my posts here said that all thais are cowards or bad? Please show me where I might have said this. Or am I overreacting to your comment?

Yes you are overreacting. I am not talking about you specifically. Re-read my post. And then scroll back through the many pages of posts, the worst ones have been deleted, so you won't necessarily have seen the astounding things that come out of some people's mouths, but believe me, it can be bad and some of the not quite so horrendous ones are still available for reading.

[tijnebijn]

I do not dispute there is violence in Thailand, nor do I dispute that the prevailing conclusion in conflicts amongst Thais seems to be violence (whether its the wife hitting her drunken husband with the frying pan or a gang of Thais beating someone up).

What I do find extremely hypocritical are the posters who are most vociferous in their condemnation of "cowardly Thais" assaulting an English man, are the ones strangely silent when the one doing the beating is an English guy and his dead victim is a 10 year old boy. Where is the outrage over that? This thread has 11 pages, that thread 3, most of the responses by the same posters or by those people hypocritical enough to blame the natural father.

Anyone see a pattern here?

I for one didn't notice the other thread. Does that make me bad?

see my above response. I think that about says it all. Doesn't matter if you in particular noticed the thread, its the general response. All Thais are bad, cowards etc etc etc when violence against a farang occurs but when its the other way around the response tends to be less prolific and vitriolic.

I am sorry but , if you would turn it different wise . Lets say on a thai forum , then you would likely get an similar reaction .

Only on the different side of the coin ? I am not saying you are wrong or that I disagree with you , but are a bit

dissapointed that you do not see this in a bigger picture . Obviously many posters only commend on their own interests ,

and not thinking further . Also I see you are a moderator , so I imagine you check and see things in a more commonsense

way then most posters will do . But it is allright to mention anyway , do not think nobody else notices , they just not bother

[WaiWai]

Found the other thread in the Phuket forum, if anyone else is wondering. If it had not been referred to in this thread, in the General forum, I would never have seen it. Three pages in the Phuket forum must be equivalent to ten in the General forum, if not more ?

Anyway, the Phuket story is apparently one of a (violent, controlling) disturbed man and a strained, and probably dysfunctional family. We didn't learn much about the mother. An autistic child is not by any means easy to cope with and I doubt there'd be much support available in Phuket. There appears to be no extended family living in the area. The outcome is tragic, but also quite predictable, given this volatile mix of ingredients.

It is a very different scenario to that of violent (young ?) (drunken ?) males attacking strangers, which this story appears to be about. I suspect we have a good deal of cultural comparison in the response because many posters can identify with the victims, and can see how very nearly this might have happened to them. Thus, there has been an attempt to figure out if there's any lesson about how violence in such settings arises in Thailand, and whether the rules & triggers differ from those "back home".

[sbk]

I, for one, don't have any difficulty with that WaiWai.

Hypocrisy is what bothers me. Yes, its dreadful but I am also perfectly capable of realizing that there are Thais who also find it dreadful. Just as I am perfectly capable of realizing that not every English man is a child beater. (and btw, the child who died was not autistic, his brother is).

Seems some people can't make that equation.

[vermin on arrival]

SBK,

I though that I was overreacting. Thanks for verifying that.

BTW, I found the thread about the murder you mentioned. What happened there is really bad. Imagine beating a child to death for not doing his schoolwork. Something really strange must have been going on in that family dynamic for that to happen(or the step dad was just really horrible).

Certainly, I guess why this thread might resonate with more long stay expat farang men is that we can see what happened in this thread happening to us if we get in the wrong end of the wrong situation here.

Around 2 years ago, I'm sure I narrowly avoided a sound beating once when I walked away from a situation in which a drunken Thai man was yelling at me. He was sitting around a table with 4 or 5 of his mates drinking whiskey, and I was by myself. There were around 20 or so people in the vicinity, and everyone got dead silent. It was a good thing that I moved along.

[WaiWai]

I, for one, don't have any difficulty with that WaiWai.

Hypocrisy is what bothers me. Yes, its dreadful but I am also perfectly capable of realizing that there are Thais who also find it dreadful. Just as I am perfectly capable of realizing that not every English man is a child beater. (and btw, the child who died was not autistic, his brother is).

Seems some people can't make that equation.

I am no big fan of hypocrisy, either, but do agree with tijnebijn's reading.

Anyway, good to remind us to keep our comments balanced. It's not a long ride from hasty to ill-considered to ignorant to prejudiced.

I know that that the kid who died is not the autistic one; just noting that he'd have a powerful effect on the family's dynamics. (Wonder what has happened to him?).

[sbk]

Anyway, good to remind us to keep our comments balanced. It's not a long ride from hasty to ill-considered to ignorant to prejudiced.

Well said, and more succinctly than I managed to put it

[DamianMavis]

This thread is so full of stereotyping and generalizations that it makes me nauseous.

The only 'gang vs 1' fight I've ever seen happened in Ontario, Canada, and I've been in Thailand for quite some time.

Coming from Ontario figure Ill reply to this. Even though it has nothing to do with Ontario! If you stay in your room and never go out your likely to NOT see any gang on 1 fights. All the gang on one fights Ive seen first hand have been in low to mid end Thai discos. I always wonder if the posters that think this is such a rosy safe happy place ever leave their rooms or tiny living area (stay in thier community). I go all over, from ultra rich bilionaire mansions to squallor and I see some crazy sheet.

Damian

[vermin on arrival]

This thread is so full of stereotyping and generalizations that it makes me nauseous.

The only 'gang vs 1' fight I've ever seen happened in Ontario, Canada, and I've been in Thailand for quite some time.

Coming from Ontario figure Ill reply to this. Even though it has nothing to do with Ontario! If you stay in your room and never go out your likely to NOT see any gang on 1 fights. All the gang on one fights Ive seen first hand have been in low to mid end Thai discos. I always wonder if the posters that think this is such a rosy safe happy place ever leave their rooms or tiny living area (stay in thier community). I go all over, from ultra rich bilionaire mansions to squallor and I see some crazy sheet.

Damian

I bet you do Damian. I'm getting older now, and don't like to go out so much anymore, but I don't doubt your word on this.

[gburns57au]

I only use hotel rooms for sleeping.....usually out and about most of the day and night, I drink in bars and nightclubs...still havent seen a gang fight or a mulitple on one in BKK or Pattaya....nor have I seen it in any of the rural areas I have been too.