Anyone Heard Of This

[terryp]

Being social creatures we form social packs, when one of our pack is attacked, we help...Most pack animals do the same thing and we are basically pack animals. Safety in numbers is what it is all about.

Errr are you serious...tell that to the poor mentally disturbed guy who was kicked to DEATH on Sukhumvit for damageing the Erawin shrine...Thais are basically cowards and get caught up with the power of the moment ...I was told years ago that Thais go BLOOD BLIND, meaning they love to see blood flow.....

[Jai Dee]

Some over-the-top racist and Thai-bashing comments have been deleted from this thread.

Members are reminded to please abide by the Forum Rules when posting, and the following in particular:

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Thanks for your understanding.

[gburns57au]

I mentioned only isolated cases from 3 countries because I dont have the time and the mods would get upset if I mentioned every mob fight I have ever seen outside of Thailand.

My mate in the UK went to help a girl whose BF was about to glass her.....he got attacked by 6 of the guys mates, fortunately for my mate, his mates dragged him out before too much damage was done. He told me that this was now the norm in the UK.

In some posters rush to stereotype Thai men as cowards who cant fight one on one, we have forgotten that the Thais are generally a peaceful people who have a tendancy to avoid confrontation in the first instance. I personally have seen many one on one fights in Thailand, as many as I have seen in Oz and in Oz I have seen many fights in pubs that become all in brawls and even the odd few of multiple attackers on a lesser number of people.

What this thread is about is because 3 Brits were attacked....If it were three Thai guys attacked by 30 odd Thais then no one here would give a monkeys cuss about it. So lets keep the knee jerk responses out of it and look at the reality, which is that Thailand has a no bigger or lesser Mob Violence problem then anywhere else.

[Prakanong]

I mentioned only isolated cases from 3 countries because I dont have the time and the mods would get upset if I mentioned every mob fight I have ever seen outside of Thailand.

My mate in the UK went to help a girl whose BF was about to glass her.....he got attacked by 6 of the guys mates, fortunately for my mate, his mates dragged him out before too much damage was done. He told me that this was now the norm in the UK.

In some posters rush to stereotype Thai men as cowards who cant fight one on one, we have forgotten that the Thais are generally a peaceful people who have a tendancy to avoid confrontation in the first instance. I personally have seen many one on one fights in Thailand, as many as I have seen in Oz and in Oz I have seen many fights in pubs that become all in brawls and even the odd few of multiple attackers on a lesser number of people.

What this thread is about is because 3 Brits were attacked....If it were three Thai guys attacked by 30 odd Thais then no one here would give a monkeys cuss about it. So lets keep the knee jerk responses out of it and look at the reality, which is that Thailand has a no bigger or lesser Mob Violence problem then anywhere else.

My point is not that they are cowards - I have repeatedly said that even if they were winning, could win one to one a mob forms instead and the otehr guy(s) ie smaller group gets a bashing and woe betide anyone left behind.

And because it was 3 Brits - well its news as this is an English speaking board but many have pointed out the mob violence is more often than not Thai on Thai so your point is absolutely moot!

[gburns57au]

Being social creatures we form social packs, when one of our pack is attacked, we help...Most pack animals do the same thing and we are basically pack animals. Safety in numbers is what it is all about.

Errr are you serious...tell that to the poor mentally disturbed guy who was kicked to DEATH on Sukhumvit for damageing the Erawin shrine...Thais are basically cowards and get caught up with the power of the moment ...I was told years ago that Thais go BLOOD BLIND, meaning they love to see blood flow.....

So far there have only been two incidents mentioned of the mob mentality in Thailand, I know there are more, we could mention the schoolkids etc...I didnt say it doesnt exist only that it is no different to our own countries. We have a society now where schoolkids go around beating random people up so they can put it on You Tube for crying out loud!!!

I agree what happened to that guy at Erawan was shameful and many Thais say the same thing. That was an extreme case in more ways than one and anybody with an understanding of what Erawan represented to the average Thai would know that, but I wouldnt and dont offer that as an excuse for the actions of the guys that did that.

As for watching blood flow, are the Thais any different to the crowds that flock to the wrestling or the boxing in the US...they are not there for the grace and skill of the combatants...they are there because they want to see blood flow....lets face it...a car race is always more interesting when there are accidents, why else do people go to watch a bunch of cars going around a racetrack five hundred times...I can assure you it is not because of the skill of the drivers. But wait, theres more (No, I aint handing out steak knives) Why do people gather to watch fights, fires, road accidents etc....because we have a morbid fascination with death, injury and spilled blood.

[gburns57au]

My point is not that they are cowards - I have repeatedly said that even if they were winning, could win one to one a mob forms instead and the otehr guy(s) ie smaller group gets a bashing and woe betide anyone left behind.

And because it was 3 Brits - well its news as this is an English speaking board but many have pointed out the mob violence is more often than not Thai on Thai so your point is absolutely moot!

And you dont see that in other countries ???

My point is that it not specific to Thailand....

My point on the Brits was that because it was three Brits then people are riding an emotion into a discussion and not being....well.....very realistic.

BTW I am not aiming comments at anyone poster in particular, my comments are across the board.

Edited July 20, 2007 by gburns57au

[Prakanong]

My point is not that they are cowards - I have repeatedly said that even if they were winning, could win one to one a mob forms instead and the otehr guy(s) ie smaller group gets a bashing and woe betide anyone left behind.

And because it was 3 Brits - well its news as this is an English speaking board but many have pointed out the mob violence is more often than not Thai on Thai so your point is absolutely moot!

And you dont see that in other countries ???

My point is that it not specific to Thailand....

My point on the Brits was that because it was three Brits then people are riding an emotion into a discussion and not being....well.....very realistic.

BTW I am not aiming comments at anyone poster in particular, my comments are across the board.

Of course I see it in other countries and totally agree with you that in the UK the whole lot jumping on you instead of a square go is becoming more prevalent rather than the 2 guys outside of my youth!

My posit is

Its a more sppntaneous thing in Thailand and even people not known join in

It happens in nearly all fights

In Thailand its not seen as anything cowardly or bad to do this

[gburns57au]

Of course I see it in other countries and totally agree with you that in the UK the whole lot jumping on you instead of a square go is becoming more prevalent rather than the 2 guys outside of my youth!

My posit is

Its a more sppntaneous thing in Thailand and even people not known join in

It happens in nearly all fights

In Thailand its not seen as anything cowardly or bad to do this

That my friend is the World today......

A map of the earth smiley would have been very good there

Edited July 20, 2007 by gburns57au

[ColPyat]

Difficult reading you Basch but again yes.

And again yes all over Aisa and a very good point about randm mobs forming - not even pals of the original guy - heard that in Indo and Malay too

Yes too about the big guys - just look at the head of a Korean Chaebol just jailed for 18 months for exactly that!

Singapore might be an exception though I live close to where the SDF pick up NS each morning and walk past them to the bus. I was just thinking this morning I can not imagine this lot forming a gang and going to a hospital to beat me up - maybe wishful thinking!

It is my experience that here in Thailand rarely random mobs are formed in such fights (unless the occasional groups of vigilantes attacking an arrested offender during the re-enactment of a crime). Mostly it is not obvious to the observer (or victim) that what appears as a random mob is actually closed friends who know each other well. Thais rarely go out alone in areas they are not familiar with, where they do not have many members of their peer groups and other complex social networks.

The area where i live here in Bangkok is rather infamous for such a social background in Bangkok. In some ways it makes it a very safe place to live. As soon as people know that you are friends with certain locals, people will hesitate to attack you as they know that you are part of a wider informal social network. Everybody here knows each other in some ways, and knows who is somewhat connected to whom.

It is very difficult for us foreigners to penetrate these informal social networks in Thailand, a mixture of peer groups, clan affiliations, and patron client relationships, and therefore we often mistake the nature of "mob violence" here.

It can therefore be a very risky undertaking to go out in pure Thai areas of entertainment, especially localities that cater to a local client base mostly. Mob violence here is not exactly what i consider "cowardice", but the nature of how here such violent confrontations are dealt with. Both sides there expect no less, and retribution for such "mob violence" is given the same way.

When we foreigners without affiliation to any Thai social network are victim of such an attack, and cry foul, we just forget that we are somehow transporting our ideas of fairness to an environment that has rather different rules of conflict, and have not the resources of retribution most Thais have.

As another poster has mentioned, many localities here are know to be hangouts of "nac laeng", often not obvious to the outsider, and easily confused with "safe" entertainment venues, and should be very much avoided, especially if there are groups of loud and drunk Thais. Different than the promoted "land of smile" illusion might suggest, Thailand does have a serious problem with violence, and also there is much resentment towards foreigners, which especially in the rougher areas of town, and under the influence of alcohol, can easily manifest itself in violence, or at least very uncomfortable piss takes that if reacted to wrongly, will fast lead to violence.

Before going out to an unknown area off the farang circuit or not attended by the chattering classes, one should ask local friends on safety issues there, or better even, before going out in an area, making sure to be known by the local informal power network.

Basically - would you consider going out in your home countries to pubs known as hooligan pubs, 1%er biker clubs, gangster or gangbanger hangouts, if you are not part of that scene? I doubt.

Here in Thailand though - this sort of environment is due to socio economic demographics and cultural norms far wider and larger than in most western countries, and additionally - there is very little outward signs such as particular dress codes of clients with which you can distinguish those places from "safe" places. Also the here very shady and intricate involvement of police and army in such informal networks of power makes the setting rather confusing to outsiders (and to many Thais as well).

[DamianMavis]

Gburns57au, you refuse to accept or believe, same as Jimjim, that although it happens internationally, it occurs here with way more regularity.

In Canada there are lots of fights but there is a basic sense of honour and right and wrong. Yes some mob beatings happen, but I would see 10 fights a night at the various bars back in the day and it was fairly consistent, yes in my city there were lots of fights, more than I see in Thailand (too much steroids, Im totally serious). One bozo starting to pound on another bozo and everyone else staying out of it until the bouncers came over and wrangled them out. Joining in would seem....bad, and picking up a bottle or weapon (it does happen sometimes) seems wrong too. Most of the fights were always one on one, your average male would be ashamed to be involved in a mob beating. There is no sense of that here, they have no shame about mob beatings or sense that it is somehow wrong, I don't think it's racial, or cowardly, just cultural. Somewere along the line they must be getting taught that it is acceptable and the way to go in a violent situation.

Damian Mavis

Edited July 20, 2007 by DamianMavis

[Prakanong]

Difficult reading you Basch but again yes.

And again yes all over Aisa and a very good point about randm mobs forming - not even pals of the original guy - heard that in Indo and Malay too

Yes too about the big guys - just look at the head of a Korean Chaebol just jailed for 18 months for exactly that!

Singapore might be an exception though I live close to where the SDF pick up NS each morning and walk past them to the bus. I was just thinking this morning I can not imagine this lot forming a gang and going to a hospital to beat me up - maybe wishful thinking!

It is my experience that here in Thailand rarely random mobs are formed in such fights (unless the occasional groups of vigilantes attacking an arrested offender during the re-enactment of a crime). Mostly it is not obvious to the observer (or victim) that what appears as a random mob is actually closed friends who know each other well. Thais rarely go out alone in areas they are not familiar with, where they do not have many members of their peer groups and other complex social networks.

The area where i live here in Bangkok is rather infamous for such a social background in Bangkok. In some ways it makes it a very safe place to live. As soon as people know that you are friends with certain locals, people will hesitate to attack you as they know that you are part of a wider informal social network. Everybody here knows each other in some ways, and knows who is somewhat connected to whom.

It is very difficult for us foreigners to penetrate these informal social networks in Thailand, a mixture of peer groups, clan affiliations, and patron client relationships, and therefore we often mistake the nature of "mob violence" here.

It can therefore be a very risky undertaking to go out in pure Thai areas of entertainment, especially localities that cater to a local client base mostly. Mob violence here is not exactly what i consider "cowardice", but the nature of how here such violent confrontations are dealt with. Both sides there expect no less, and retribution for such "mob violence" is given the same way.

When we foreigners without affiliation to any Thai social network are victim of such an attack, and cry foul, we just forget that we are somehow transporting our ideas of fairness to an environment that has rather different rules of conflict, and have not the resources of retribution most Thais have.

As another poster has mentioned, many localities here are know to be hangouts of "nac laeng", often not obvious to the outsider, and easily confused with "safe" entertainment venues, and should be very much avoided, especially if there are groups of loud and drunk Thais. Different than the promoted "land of smile" illusion might suggest, Thailand does have a serious problem with violence, and also there is much resentment towards foreigners, which especially in the rougher areas of town, and under the influence of alcohol, can easily manifest itself in violence, or at least very uncomfortable piss takes that if reacted to wrongly, will fast lead to violence.

Before going out to an unknown area off the farang circuit or not attended by the chattering classes, one should ask local friends on safety issues there, or better even, before going out in an area, making sure to be known by the local informal power network.

Basically - would you consider going out in your home countries to pubs known as hooligan pubs, 1%er biker clubs, gangster or gangbanger hangouts, if you are not part of that scene? I doubt.

Here in Thailand though - this sort of environment is due to socio economic demographics and cultural norms far wider and larger than in most western countries, and additionally - there is very little outward signs such as particular dress codes of clients with which you can distinguish those places from "safe" places. Also the here very shady and intricate involvement of police and army in such informal networks of power makes the setting rather confusing to outsiders (and to many Thais as well).

I think we need to define mob violence - you are seeing it more in terms of vigilante mod of unknown or unconected persons I think we are talking mob as in large group.

Also when I say unknown that is probably the wrong term - people not in the immediate group of the people involved in the initial fracas might be better

I think the basic premise is there though

In Thailand its not seen as imoral or lacking hnour to form a large group to beat the shit out of another even if one could do it.

It turns into this as more of the norm rather than a one to one

It happens with regularity whether its Thai on Thai or onto anyone else but as its there country obviously more Thai on Thai

etc etc

[gburns57au]

Gburns57au, you refuse to accept or believe, same as Jimjim, that although it happens internationally, it occurs here with way more regularity.

In Canada there are lots of fights but there is a basic sense of honour and right and wrong. Yes some mob beatings happen, but I would see 10 fights a night at the various bars back in the day and it was fairly consistent, yes in my city there were lots of fights, more than I see in Thailand (too much steroids, Im totally serious). One bozo starting to pound on another bozo and everyone else staying out of it until the bouncers came over and wrangled them out. Joining in would seem....bad, and picking up a bottle or weapon (it does happen sometimes) seems wrong too. Most of the fights were always one on one, your average male would be ashamed to be involved in a mob beating. There is no sense of that here, they have no shame about mob beatings or sense that it is somehow wrong, I don't think it's racial, or cowardly, just cultural. Somewere along the line they must be getting taught that it is acceptable and the way to go in a violent situation.

Damian Mavis

You said "back in the day"....I take it you mean, when a one on one was the norm, dont kick a dog when its down, dont steal from neighbours, "whatdya mean, lock the door??" days.....

The world is no longer the innocent and fair minded place that it used to be. Nowadays Bozo's mates would jump in and help him, then Bozo 2 mates jump in and help him, then someone draws a knife... and so it goes... the days where 40 would watch two fight is now the day where 2 watch 40 fight. Nowadays it is only a one on one fight for the first couple of punches.

Might is right and whoever has the more might wins...Thats the attitude that now holds sway.

A few years ago I lived across the road from a pub...it was more common to see fights of upto 60 people then to see a one on one...And yet thirty years ago it was more common to see the one on one.

It is not a matter of refusal to accept or believe....I am merely stating my observations and my experiences...Should I accept what others say just because that is what they believe even though that is not my belief ?? By stating that, you seem to be saying that I should do just that. Sorry to disappoint. And I dont expect you to accept mine...we can discuss it all day though

But really to say that it happens more in one place than another really is ludricous...it is a sign of ever changing world that we live in....the emphasis being on the word...WORLD

Edited July 20, 2007 by gburns57au

[ColPyat]

I think we need to define mob violence - you are seeing it more in terms of vigilante mod of unknown or unconected persons I think we are talking mob as in large group.

Also when I say unknown that is probably the wrong term - people not in the immediate group of the people involved in the initial fracas might be better

I think the basic premise is there though

In Thailand its not seen as imoral or lacking hnour to form a large group to beat the shit out of another even if one could do it.

It turns into this as more of the norm rather than a one to one

It happens with regularity whether its Thai on Thai or onto anyone else but as its there country obviously more Thai on Thai

etc etc

I guess the morality issue does not really come to play here (in some ways all use of violence as conflict solution is somewhat immoral, anywhere) - it simply is effective and works, and that is what counts. And it is effective on many levels - not just the physical level. The brutality of a group attack is far more terrifying and intimidating than a simple one on one fight.

[Prakanong]

I think we need to define mob violence - you are seeing it more in terms of vigilante mod of unknown or unconected persons I think we are talking mob as in large group.

Also when I say unknown that is probably the wrong term - people not in the immediate group of the people involved in the initial fracas might be better

I think the basic premise is there though

In Thailand its not seen as imoral or lacking hnour to form a large group to beat the shit out of another even if one could do it.

It turns into this as more of the norm rather than a one to one

It happens with regularity whether its Thai on Thai or onto anyone else but as its there country obviously more Thai on Thai

etc etc

I guess the morality issue does not really come to play here (in some ways all use of violence as conflict solution is somewhat immoral, anywhere) - it simply is effective and works, and that is what counts. And it is effective on many levels - not just the physical level. The brutality of a group attack is far more terrifying and intimidating than a simple one on one fight.

Now there is a debate and was on of my first Univerity Politics essay questions, "Is Political violence ever justified"?

Then in some groups etc a square go ie one on one outside between two blokes mostly with fists was not seen as immoral - I grew up in a place like that but its not like that now!

[nick2k]

I go to Thai bars fairly often, if I dont see another falang all night I'm happy. So I watch Thais fight with eachother, and it's always always always a group on one. I've never even heard of a fight between 2 men in this country... it just doesnt seem to happen, and there are lotsa fights. If you want to argue this go ahead, but I know what I see. I am a professional martial artsit and I don't DARE get into a fight with Thai people, I will lose, I can't fight some dude and his 10 friends and get away without serious injury, I just can't. So I swallow my pride and keep smiling. I don't think it's a phenomenon aimed at falangs though, it is just the way it is done here, they do it to eachother waaaaay more than they do it to us.

Damian Mavis

I agree with you. mob fighting is the way it works here. do not get into a fight here with a thai person. they don't fight fair. in fact, the people you would think would not get involved are exactly the ones who do.

..pay special attention to the street vendors when a fight breaks out, and you will know what I mean.

someone mentioned that mob fighting happens all over the world. yes, this is true. but not to the degree that I have witnessed here. having lived for many years in the usa and here in thailand, I know.

if you want to get revenge, don't do it in public. do in secretly. ..you have been warned.

[ColPyat]

Now there is a debate and was on of my first Univerity Politics essay questions, "Is Political violence ever justified"?

Then in some groups etc a square go ie one on one outside between two blokes mostly with fists was not seen as immoral - I grew up in a place like that but its not like that now!

When in school we all had those dreams and illusions of those armed revolutions, heroism and such. But having observed first hand more than a few times the effects of such (most recently last week) - it just frightens and disgusts me.

Can't we just all get along, for effs sake?!

But yes, when i was a kid, those sort of ritualized fights were perfectly OK, but they were more of a ring sport. Others standing around making sure that things were still sort of within limits - broken noses, split lips and such - no more. But then up a level - gangs of punks, skinheads, hooligans - it became a bit different. There was suddenly an intent to hurt your opponent badly, by any means available. That really took me off fighting - i don't like hurting people, and i don't like to be hurt.

[DamianMavis]

Gburns57au, no Im not that old, "back in the day" means 4 years ago when I still lived in Canada, but I will concede that the world is getting more violent and less moral every year it seems.

Nick2k, your vendor reference reminded me of the falang that was murdered right in front of the landmark hotel near nana 2 or 3 new years eves ago by the alcohol vendors. Couple of falangs sitting having a drink on the street and some hookers stopped to sit with them, ordered a drink and then walked away. When the bill came the falangs were surprised at their bill and refused to buy strange hookers drinks just because they stopped for a bit. They started to argue and then EVERY single vendor along the small strip grabbed a weapon and beat him in the head until his brains spilled out and he died. Actually he died trying to climb over the barbed wire in the middle of the road to get away (sukhumvit). Most foreigners would be like "why?, why? WHY?!". It is incomprehensible to most of us and this kind of thing is definately less prelavent in our home countries.

Damian

Edited July 20, 2007 by DamianMavis

[vegas]

Thailand would be a much better country without the Thai men, save a few monks.

What ever happened to the girl who had her arm hacked off by the 'policeman' a few months ago?

[gburns57au]

Gburns57au, no Im not that old, "back in the day" means 4 years ago when I still lived in Canada, but I will concede that the world is getting more violent and less moral every year it seems.

Nick2k, your vendor reference reminded me of the falang that was murdered right in front of the landmark hotel near nana 2 or 3 new years eves ago by the alcohol vendors. Couple of falangs sitting having a drink on the street and some hookers stopped to sit with them, ordered a drink and then walked away. When the bill came the falangs were surprised at their bill and refused to buy strange hookers drinks just because they stopped for a bit. They started to argue and then EVERY single vendor along the small strip grabbed a weapon and beat him in the head until his brains spilled out and he died. Actually he died trying to climb over the barbed wire in the middle of the road to get away (sukhumvit). Most foreigners would be like "why?, why? WHY?!". It is incomprehensible to most of us and this kind of thing is definately less prelavent in our home countries.

Damian

And I am sure if we put our minds to it. we could find similar examples in our home countries, I know I can...when was the last senseless murder in Canada, the US, the UK etc...When was the last time you heard of someone being gang attacked and injured in your own country...or any senseless random attack...be honest now.

Thailand in general is not a violent country...there have been instances of violence but you only have to look at the US for violence....the crips and the bloods, that Timothy Nichols guy, the serial killers, Columbine High School and the other schools, Kent Uni Ohio very similar to the Thai students uprisings, Various workplace massacres, the list goes on

In Oz we have had...the Milperra bikie massacre, Northbridge and Birnie murders in the West, Cronulla riots, the Port Arthur mass murders, The Snowtown Murders, The Granny Killer, the Hoddle Street murders. the list goes on

All various acts of senseless murder and /or injuries.

It is easier to brand another country than it is to brand your own I guess.

[gburns57au]

Thailand would be a much better country without the Thai men, save a few monks.

What ever happened to the girl who had her arm hacked off by the 'policeman' a few months ago?

Vegas you should really think first then post....

without Thai men there would be no Thai women and then there would be no reason for farangs to go there, and if the farangs didnt go there, they would have no reason to complain about Thailand...

I am liking your comment better all the time....

[chuck6660]

Smithson, that thread has been merged with this one. They are one and the same.

Doza, you're making my whole point for me. You can't really say or prove if it happens here more than somewhere else, you just think it does. You faultily make the argument that just because you believe this, others are in the wrong. This is not the case.

But, you know, a couple of months ago in a pool bar I saw some foreigner arguing heatedly with a girl and then a local went over and got in his face and told him to stop and then they started fighting. Another local came over while the other guy held him and started bashing his face in. They then were ushered quickly outside by others and while, on the street, the foreigner got knocked down and a small mob kicked him in his ribs and face until some stopped the fight. The police never showed up as none of the locals cared to call them. It wasn't reported in the news. The foreigner was an Israeli. So, yeah, maybe you're right. Except that this happened in Seattle, U.S.A.

Could there have been some animosity to this guy because he was a foreigner and added heat to the fight. Sure? This could be the case in some of these so-called mob beatings in Thailand. A lot of times a bunch of men gang up on someone from a different country or someone different than them. It has been such a problem in the U.S. that they made hate crimes. KKK, anyone? There's not much you can say that proves it happens in Thailand more than anywhere else. It's probably more likely that you notice it more because it may happen in higher frequency when it involves a foreigner, and you are foreigner in Thailand.

Seattle Washington?? I have to call "bullsh*t" on this one!!

[duratanium]

Taking the car to the garage to get it fixed this morning the g/f was told about this fight that i also in the local papers.

Seems..... 8 Farang v 33 soldiers.

The fight started in the man market in Nakhon Sawan after a Thai dropped his spoon on the floor and one of the Farangs kicked the spoon by accident as he walked past.

The Thai took offence.

An apology was made and the Thai refused to accept the apology and a fight ensued - started, as I understand, by the soldiers.

The Farang did not see the spoon and a I understand it there was alcohol involved.

Seems that the Farang in question is here to coach football and his nationality is in dispute with regards to the reports. We hear it was mainly Germans involved.

As to the fight in the hospital, that did happen and we are told it was a soldier who attacked the Farang who was there for treatment to facial injuries.

The son of one of the Farangs involves is said to be a higher ranking policeman.

[Prakanong]

Gburns57au, no Im not that old, "back in the day" means 4 years ago when I still lived in Canada, but I will concede that the world is getting more violent and less moral every year it seems.

Nick2k, your vendor reference reminded me of the falang that was murdered right in front of the landmark hotel near nana 2 or 3 new years eves ago by the alcohol vendors. Couple of falangs sitting having a drink on the street and some hookers stopped to sit with them, ordered a drink and then walked away. When the bill came the falangs were surprised at their bill and refused to buy strange hookers drinks just because they stopped for a bit. They started to argue and then EVERY single vendor along the small strip grabbed a weapon and beat him in the head until his brains spilled out and he died. Actually he died trying to climb over the barbed wire in the middle of the road to get away (sukhumvit). Most foreigners would be like "why?, why? WHY?!". It is incomprehensible to most of us and this kind of thing is definately less prelavent in our home countries.

Damian

I can not place that case and I would have been in the area that night and I used to read all the Thai boards etc plus my pals live around there and love to gossip

I read Stickman say someone opposit Nana but that was never confirmed then there was an axe attack towards Asoke in the last couple of years?

[DamianMavis]

No it was right in front of the Landmark, to the left a bit at the alchol vendors. My friend witnessed it all first hand. I'll try to get the info if it was 2 or 3 years ago. From what I can remember it was quickly covered up as the police own the alcohol vendors.

Damian

[Prakanong]

Taking the car to the garage to get it fixed this morning the g/f was told about this fight that i also in the local papers.

Seems..... 8 Farang v 33 soldiers.

The fight started in the man market in Nakhon Sawan after a Thai dropped his spoon on the floor and one of the Farangs kicked the spoon by accident as he walked past.

The Thai took offence.

An apology was made and the Thai refused to accept the apology and a fight ensued - started, as I understand, by the soldiers.

The Farang did not see the spoon and a I understand it there was alcohol involved.

Seems that the Farang in question is here to coach football and his nationality is in dispute with regards to the reports. We hear it was mainly Germans involved.

As to the fight in the hospital, that did happen and we are told it was a soldier who attacked the Farang who was there for treatment to facial injuries.

The son of one of the Farangs involves is said to be a higher ranking policeman.

We call this Chinese whispers in the UK and its "Postaman" in the USA I beleive

All other reports have 3 farangs and given the reports arein the British press and names named they are British (English?) not German as is obvious.

Yes his father is said to be a policeman - was the rank not given too?

[Prakanong]

No it was right in front of the Landmark, to the left a bit at the alchol vendors. My friend witnessed it all first hand. I'll try to get the info if it was 2 or 3 years ago. From what I can remember it was quickly covered up as the police own the alcohol vendors.

Damian

Not saying it did not happen I just never heard about it.

I do not know those vendors as would always cross the road at Suk 4 to the 3 side - a bit quiet along the Landmark side late at night though is it not?

One of the most famous fights around there that people spoke of years later was in Nana on the first floor (2nd American) between a Dutch Marine and a pack of Thai's - it was said he was holding his own backing off around the place from the old Rosemary to Three Roses where he fell over and they had the poor guy - I think he survived but just - this was over 10 years ago now.

I saw a German skinhead aganst a pack not far from Casanova's get it one night - he had nutted katoey and was now fighting a load at the stairs trying to keep them off with plastic chairs - the whole of Nana was out watching - he was carried out!

[vermin on arrival]

So to all who say it is more prevalent in Thailand.....Hogwash...it is human nature

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Yes, it happens elsewhere, but it doesn't take too much time observing events in the land of smiles to realize that this pattern of violence is indeed more prevalent here.

I don't understand why people seem to bend over backwards to say that Thailand is just like everywhere else in the world when it in fact is not. Asia and the west are different. Then, within these groups their are local patterns of behavior which set that culture's behavior apart from another's. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it's bad, and sometimes it just is. To deny these differences seems silly.

ColPyat,

Good to see you posting again. Where you been?

[stumonster]

No it was right in front of the Landmark, to the left a bit at the alchol vendors. My friend witnessed it all first hand. I'll try to get the info if it was 2 or 3 years ago. From what I can remember it was quickly covered up as the police own the alcohol vendors.

Damian

was this at 5-6am in the morning ? and witnessed by many early rising guests at the landmark ?

[Prakanong]

So to all who say it is more prevalent in Thailand.....Hogwash...it is human nature

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. Yes, it happens elsewhere, but it doesn't take too much time observing events in the land of smiles to realize that this pattern of violence is indeed more prevalent here.

I don't understand why people seem to bend over backwards to say that Thailand is just like everywhere else in the world when it in fact is not. Asia and the west are different. Then, within these groups their are local patterns of behavior which set that culture's behavior apart from another's. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it's bad, and sometimes it just is. To deny these differences seems silly.

ColPyat,

Good to see you posting again. Where you been?

I think its just a defence mechanismamong some posters who have to defend all things Thai right or wrong and if something bad happens immediately reach for the but it hapens elsewhere button.

Just discussing this with Thai colleagues - well travelled Thai colleagues - guess what they say?

They do not try to deny it and defend it or blame the victim!

[UnknownPoster]

Some people go on holiday looking for a fight.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=94895&st=0