Living The Dream

[stroll]

...or a few other things. Not being a cynical old git who hates being in Thailand helps to invite positive experiences as well, you know.

[Jeff1]

Sunburn,

How much does it cost fot the TEFL course ? How long is it ?

Thanks and good luck

[Begs]

Go for it. You do your own thing and if it works out, Great, and if it don't, then it don't.

I came to Thailand when i was 35 years old, all the old timers where telling me that i would last a year Tops,.......................... " Go back, get a job" ............" Another lamb to the slaughter".............................. "You will be dead or in Jail in a few years" ..................etc, etc. Funny thing is, 13 years later 95% of them where either Dead or in Jail or back to thier own countries Broke.

You got age on your Side, which many of the old timers don't have, you can move on and start again, they can't do that so easy. Go for it mate.

You are dead a long time

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Thanks guys, mostly optimistic & encouraging there, I appreciate that! 

My GF knows exactly how much I'll be earning & I am prepared to 'rough it.'  Never use air-con, will eat from street stalls & quite happy in front of the tele with a bottle of Mekhong

It does seem that all the teachers are in Bangkok though, surely there are some opportunities in Pattaya, that's the place I fell in love with (warts and all) and that's the place I want to settle. 

Anyone out there who's taught in Pattaya, and can give me a few pointers in the right direction?

Warts, what warts?

Astonishing...

It seems some things are never forgotten.

[Sunburn]

How much does it cost fot the TEFL course ? How long is it ?

Thanks and good luck

Cheers m8, it's 38,500 bt, 6 weeks long and already paid for.

I came to Thailand when i was 35 years old, all the old timers where telling me that i would last a year Tops,.......................... " Go back, get a job" ............" Another lamb to the slaughter".............................. "You will be dead or in Jail in a few years" ..................etc, etc. Funny thing is, 13 years later 95% of them where either Dead or in Jail or back to thier own countries Broke.

Nice to hear Glad to say the more pessimistic seem to be in the minority here though.

Frankly, one has to be an idiot to try to start a new life in Thailand now.

Then pass me my hat with the the big 'D' on it m8 because there's no way I'm staying in rainy, depressing North Wales!!

Thanks for the encouragement (mostly) guys! As I said I'm working away to pay for all this at the moment. I'm not well off by any stretch of the imagination, but if the worst did come to the worst, I've got friends & family that would at least get me home in one piece. My next post will probably be in the visa section to find out just how hard a one-year working visa for teachers is to get. (Surely that's one category of person the Thais WANT to attract to the their country!)

I should be heading out there early December so I'll let you all know how it pans out.

Kawp khun maak khrap

[Dutchy2]

My next post will probably be in the visa section to find out just how hard a one-year working visa for teachers is to get. (Surely that's one category of person the Thais WANT to attract to the their country!)

You got me there! You're absolutely right!!

Good luck!

Dutchy

[amanda]

Even though I haven't been here for that long at all, I feel that 20,000 baht would be like a 'survival salary' for most of us foreigners here. I have noticed that there's plenty of discrimination regarding the nationality of the teachers. To my disgust, I have found out that a Pakistani colleague of mine is getting only about 60 percent of what I am earning and she told me that Thai teachers get even less. And, that colleague of mine has got a pretty good teaching certificate (a better one than mine, for instance). And, some of the native speakers at my school do not even have a teaching certificate ! I know that one of them has got only a bachelor's degree in Biology (he is teaching English) !!!! I feel that the foreign teachers here have to meet certain requirements in order to obtain a work permit here. For instance, at least a bachelor's degree in the relevant area and/or a decent teaching certificate plus at least a few years experience would be ideal.

Amanda

[Nat]

I have noticed that there's plenty of discrimination regarding the nationality of the teachers. To my disgust, I have found out that a Pakistani colleague of mine is getting only about 60 percent of what I am earning and she told me that Thai teachers get even less.

Hi Amanda

I know this is an awful thing to be occurring, but the scary thing is that it’s quite common, esp for the Filipino staff. I feel mostly for the thai staff who do so much with little reward or appreciation .

[Ajarn]

Even though I haven't been here for that long at all, I feel that 20,000 baht would be like a 'survival salary' for most of us foreigners here.  I have noticed that there's plenty of discrimination regarding the nationality of the teachers. To my disgust, I have found out that a Pakistani colleague of mine is getting only about 60 percent of what I am earning and she told me that Thai teachers get even less. And, that colleague of mine has got a pretty good teaching certificate (a better one than mine, for instance). And, some of the native speakers at my school do not even have a teaching certificate ! I know that one of them has got only a bachelor's degree in Biology (he is teaching English) !!!! I feel that the foreign teachers here have to meet certain requirements in order to obtain a work permit here. For instance, at least a bachelor's degree in the relevant area and/or a decent teaching certificate plus at least a few years experience would be ideal.

Amanda

I completely agree with you. I've worked with a number of Philipino and Indian teachers, who could teach circles around most of the native speakers, plus, they often worked more hours, and they were always paid less, in my experience. Purely a color/class issue, I feel. Excellent English teachers are not limited to England

I hope that Thailand continues to make it more difficult for non-qualified foreigners to teach here. Even after such a long time, it's still mostly cowboy operations in Thailand. Most teachers teach illegally, that's for sure.

But, I think if they're going to require these outrageous wages to qualify for a one year stamp, then they should be required to pay such wages to teachers....I mean, if the government sets a minimum wage, then anything under that would not be an acceptable or reasonable wage, right?

[stroll]

Dream on...

I think they are just making it generally more difficult to get work permits by this policy, it will increase the number of people working illegally with such unrealistic benchmarks. It will simply create more insecurity and contribute to considerations whether Thailand is such a good choice if one intends to stay longterm in this part of the world.

[riderpty]

In any country you need 6 mos. living expenses in reserve. You'll need more money than you think, then, at least B200,000. Be sure to have a return ticket home and enough to reestablish yourself in the UK, because you really don’t have any long-term prospects. If at age 29 you still have to save up to meet a couple months expenses in Thailand, it’s clear that you aren’t much of a money manager and that you probably don’t have a degree, bad omens for a teaching career in Thailand. It sounds like you’ve been suckered by a TEFL outfit and your GF.

Although your Thai GF now seems to understand you'll be living together on a shoestring budget, her attitude can easily change, esp. if she's been in the bar trade. Perhaps she just wants to get you over here. The problem is, you haven’t cleared the arrangement with the girl’s family, who are her minders. You haven’t established how much they’re gon’ be gettin’ and whether it’s “enough”. They ain’t gonna be happy to find out (and they will) she’s living with a *yak jon (poor) farang, which is a big no-no. A poor Thai, OK, but not a poor farang. So you can expect to be hounded to death.

“Going native,” eating on the street, wearing flip-flops, trying to sleep amidst blaring TVs and stereos and bar girls/pimps/johns/dogs braying, grunting, barking, having no possessions worth stealing, fighting with baht bus drivers to pay 5 baht like a Thai, and avoiding dentists sounds cool until you really try to do it. It’s highly unlikely you’ll be able to tolerate such a lifestyle for long. Again, have your escape route already planned to avoid the suicidal one.

OK, there are jobs in Pattaya in the language schools, but almost all of them are dodgy miserable little jobs that pay little (100 baht an hour, for example) and offer no visa, workpermit, or security whatsoever. You'll get no respect from the management and you'll have lots of holes in your schedule where you just have to sit around waiting for the next student. Many students come in the evenings, so there goes dinner w/ the GF. You’ll also have to work Sat/Sun. Hopeless, really. Oh, you can do it for a while, but it’s a waste of time. Better just not to work and have a holiday.

There are some bilingual schools around Pattaya in which jobs are sometimes available. They will require a non-fake college degree at minimum. The international schools are almost impossible to break into unless you have impressive teaching credentials from your home country. One horrible low-paying bilingual/”international” school that often has openings is the Wuttichot/International School of Pattaya. That's because nobody can stand working there for long.

The nearby town of Siricha has some better language schools and some private schools that sometimes need English teachers, but Siricha is a boring place in which to live; and a commute by bus from Pattaya and back would soon become unpleasant, for reasons you’d discover. Again, no degree = no work permit and hence visa problems.

There’s private tutoring but it takes a while to get the contacts and then you’re still left with no visa and no work permit. You can’t get by for long on tourist visas nowadays and they’ve gotten expensive.

In short, Bangkok is the place to be if you want to teach, and it’s a hard enough existence there. It's very unlikely it will work out in Pattaya, a tough, mean, hustling sex tourist town, unless you're some sort of masochist. In fact, maybe you have to be a bit of a masochist to live in Thailand at all these days as a farang. Racist attitudes, immigration breathing down your neck . . . .

Better to holiday in Pattaya, return to the UK, get some real teaching credentials and experience, and see a professional financial planner to help you meet your goals.

[Dutchy2]

But, I think if they're going to require these outrageous wages to qualify for a one year stamp, then they should be required to pay such wages to teachers....I mean, if the government sets a minimum wage, then anything under that would not be an acceptable or reasonable wage, right?

Nope, they are not required to pay these wages to teachers.

Nope, many people find 30.00 baht per month acceptable

It seems that teachers will be the beggars of society in the future, normal immigration rules do not even apply to teachers anymore in Thailand. I find this a somewhat dubious development.

Dutchy

[Begs]

But, I think if they're going to require these outrageous wages to qualify for a one year stamp, then they should be required to pay such wages to teachers....I mean, if the government sets a minimum wage, then anything under that would not be an acceptable or reasonable wage, right?

Nope, they are not required to pay these wages to teachers.

Nope, many people find 30.00 baht per month acceptable

It seems that teachers will be the beggars of society in the future, normal immigration rules do not even apply to teachers anymore in Thailand. I find this a somewhat dubious development.

Dutchy

I bet a Thai Teacher wished they earned 30,000 Baht a month.

[Sunburn]

If at age 29 you still have to save up to meet a couple months expenses in Thailand, it’s clear that you aren’t much of a money manager and that you probably don’t have a degree

Well some of us have to do it the hard way m8. We can't all have property portfolios or trust funds. You're right, I don't have a degree, when I tried to get into teaching in this country (which is apparently crying out for new teachers.) I was expected to do a full time course & hold down a full time job, or take evening classes over a period of 6 years!

I'm sorry but a genuine desire to teach & a TEFL certificate has got to be worth more than a degree in biology.

For instance, at least a bachelor's degree in the relevant area and/or a decent teaching certificate plus at least a few years experience would be ideal.

If you can show me how to do that in the U.K. Amanda I'll be happy to start tomorrow. I'm sure you have come across teachers who don't have degrees or diplomas that are actually DA*N good at their job! Aptitude & enthusiasm must count for something! A degree doesn't automatically make you a first class teacher.

[Wanraya]

The nearby town of Siricha has some better language schools and some private schools that sometimes need English teachers, but Siricha is a boring place in which to live; and a commute by bus from Pattaya and back would soon become unpleasant, for reasons you’d discover. Again, no degree = no work permit and hence visa problems.

I've lived in Pattaya and worked in Sirracha for the last three and a half years. I don't find the commuting much of a problem 45 minutes - door to door by motorbike.

There are four language centres in Sirracha ECC, Success, Burapha Language Centre and English Plus you should be able to find employment with one of them almost immediatly on finishing your TEFL course. Having worked for three of the four aformentioned employers I can say that generally there is a shortage of teachers if anything.

[Sunburn]

Thanks Wanraya!

[Ajarn]

If at age 29 you still have to save up to meet a couple months expenses in Thailand, it’s clear that you aren’t much of a money manager and that you probably don’t have a degree

Well some of us have to do it the hard way m8. We can't all have property portfolios or trust funds. You're right, I don't have a degree, when I tried to get into teaching in this country (which is apparently crying out for new teachers.) I was expected to do a full time course & hold down a full time job, or take evening classes over a period of 6 years!

I'm sorry but a genuine desire to teach & a TEFL certificate has got to be worth more than a degree in biology.

For instance, at least a bachelor's degree in the relevant area and/or a decent teaching certificate plus at least a few years experience would be ideal.

If you can show me how to do that in the U.K. Amanda I'll be happy to start tomorrow. I'm sure you have come across teachers who don't have degrees or diplomas that are actually DA*N good at their job! Aptitude & enthusiasm must count for something! A degree doesn't automatically make you a first class teacher.

I'm sorry but a genuine desire to teach & a TEFL certificate has got to be worth more than a degree in biology.

Not in Thailand, that's for sure.

Sunburn, I came here at age 30 to start a new life, and I have been successful at accomplishing my dream. You can, too, if you're a sharp guy.

But, I came here with real teaching certification, experience, and a university degree. At that time (20 years ago), it was no sweat getting a teaching job, and you could lie all you wanted about your background, since nobody ever checked....

It's still like that in many schools, but the main difference is that now there are many more qualified teachers looking for work in Thailand, and you'll need to measure up to get chosen over them....

A TEFL will get your foot in the door, but you can't work legally without at least a bachelor's in any subject. You might be able to slip through the process, but it wouldn't be a good idea to bank your future on that. And the Labor office is more serious about illegal teachers, arresting a number of them in the last few years. Without a teaching license, you'll be doing regular visa runs, which besides the cost of the runs (2-10,000 baht, on average) you'll also lose the money you could have made teaching during that time...

Lots of ways to make money here for a sharp teacher, and all the rest will remain close to the bottom of the barrel, in my experience.

One more consideration...Living like a pauper in Thailand can really suck for some.

[Sunburn]

Thanks for the reality check Ajarn. I don't know if you're affiliated with the ajarn.com website, but it was on there I read - "Ideally you need experience, a batchelors degree in any subject and a TEFL certificate, but in reality, one of the three will suffice."

It also says - "Get on a plane and unless you're really inept, you should find a job within a week or so."

Now I'm not completely gullible, but I have been lead to believe that someone willing to work hard and build up their teaching experience in Thailand really can make a go of it. However, the legality issue has just made me do a double take.

Is teaching English in Thailand without a degree an arrestable offence? Surely that can't be the case?

[Dutchy2]

But, I came here with real teaching certification, experience, and a university degree. At that time (20 years ago), it was no sweat getting a teaching job, and you could lie all you wanted about your background, since nobody ever checked....

Good advice, get your degree first. With decent qualifications its easier to build an existence, that's valid basically everywhere. Surviving on 20,000 baht per month is simply no fun.

Good luck

Dutchy

[Ajarn]

Is teaching English in Thailand without a degree an arrestable offence? Surely that can't be the case?

Yes, it's true, since you must have a Teaching License (and work permit) to teach legally here, and no degree means no teaching license or work permit...

By the way, among the cases of teachers who were arrested that I was familiar with, in each case, they were snitched on by 'friends' or co-workers. I wouldn't even say the odds are good that you could have such a thing happen, but do you really want to take that chance of spending any time in a Thai prison, if you can avoid it?

Oh, and I have nothing to do with Ajarn.com. They stole my name. (joking)

Basically, what Ajarn.com said is true...They even have French people teaching English in Thailand.

Any warm body who can speak English can find somewhere to teach here

[amanda]

A good friend of a colleague has come up with a nice idea. He has apparently set up his 'own language school' He has apparently rented some place for around 5000 baht a month and then bought some basic furniture and started giving lessons in there Word of mouth has helped his business and now he is doing quite well. I think a cop friend of his told him that there is little chance the police would find out and even if they did, some 'negotiations' (!) would solve the matter. So, there is a thought for some of you 'business-minded, risk-takers' in here

Amanda

[whattodo]

Any warm body who can speak English can find somewhere to teach here

Sad but true ,i am all for tougher measures regulating teaching positions.

Thais spend a lot of hard earned money in these schools and should deserve at least a credible Teacher with experiance or at the very least hold the appropiate course accredited certificate.

[Ajarn]

A good friend of a colleague has come up with a nice idea. He has apparently set up his 'own language school' He has apparently rented some place for around 5000 baht a month and then bought some basic furniture and started giving lessons in there Word of mouth has helped his business and now he is doing quite well. I think a cop friend of his told him that there is little chance the police would find out and even if they did, some 'negotiations' (!) would solve the matter. So, there is a thought for some of you 'business-minded, risk-takers' in here

Amanda

In years past, I've done such, but I would never think of such a move nowadys. Just too easy and productive for anyone to drop a dime, like a jealous, broke Thai with a competing business, and failing that, some other more nefarious form of getback can, and does occur here daily.

And nobody can count on the police not doing their duty

[riderpty]

> Well some of us have to do it the hard way m8. We can't all have

> property portfolios or trust funds.

Indeed so. That's why I myself had to do it the hard way that you're

trying to avoid. It means getting the degree and the experience, among

other things. I'm very glad I did, too.

> You're right, I don't have a

> degree, when I tried to get into teaching in this country (which is

> apparently crying out for new teachers.) I was expected to do a full

> time course & hold down a full time job, or take evening classes

> over a period of 6 years!

Um, well--yes. No free lunch, right?

> I'm sorry but a genuine desire to teach &

> a TEFL certificate has got to be worth more than a degree in

> biology.

If the UK doesn't think so, why should Thailand? Moreover, your

"genuine desire" hasn't yet been at all tested in the real world, now

has it? Each year countless formerly enthusiastic teachers abandon their

careers in disillusionment when they discover that the teaching

profession requires much more than either desire OR academic

qualifications.

Yet it's just more likely that a degree holder knows something about

something, has a bit of discipline, and is more literate. Among the

TEFL-only teachers I've encountered (not many, I admit) I've noted

their grammatical errors when speaking, their slang, low idioms, thick

Scouse or cockney pronunciation, and a tendency to try to turn every

discussion round to "footie." I wondered how Thais could be expected

to understand or learn anything from them. But perhaps in the

classroom a remarkable metamorphosis takes place.

>

> QUOTE For instance, at least a bachelor's degree in the relevant

> area and/or a decent teaching certificate plus at least a few years

> experience would be ideal.

>

>

> If you can show me how to do that in the U.K. Amanda I'll be happy

> to start tomorrow.

But you already know how to do that.

> I'm sure you have come across teachers who don't

> have degrees or diplomas that are actually DA*N good at their job!

Um . . . . Wrong circles, I guess.

> Aptitude & enthusiasm must count for something!

They do, of course, but not for a visa and work permit in Thailand

anyway. Do you have any hard evidence of your aptitude, by the way?

> A degree doesn't

> automatically make you a first class teacher.

Ain't THAT the truth?

Incidentally, eating Thai street food tends to leave me with the trots. How about you?

[Rascal]

Such vast differences of opinions on this topic. Sunburn, you've given many readers the impression that aside from your great desire to live in Thailand under very adverse conditions, you have little to show by way of drive, discipline and hard work, as riderpty pointed out. There are so many 'teachers' here that can hardly string a grammatically correct sentence together. For instance, I noticed that you quoted the words "batchelors degree" from ajarn.com. Was that your mistake or theirs? Either way, ........ eeks!

I'm not saying don't come to Thailand, I'm just saying you should think it through more thoroughly. Sure, you don't need a lot of $ to get by each month here, but what happens if you simply get a bad case of food poisoning? Or in a motorcycle accident? You will bleed to death on a steel slab if you can't show proof of your ability to pay. THAT is the truth. My friend's sister in law was robbed and stabbed four times in her home and the doctors wouldn't touch her until he showed up with a copy of his gold visa card. What happens if you get arrested for working without a work permit? What happens if you get deported? Possibility is always there. I'm not trying to discourage you. Just playing the devil's advocate. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you well.

[Sunburn]

aside from your great desire to live in Thailand under very adverse conditions, you have little to show by way of drive, discipline and hard work

Really? Try 60 hr weeks doing 12 hr shifts to pay for all this.

, I noticed that you quoted the words "batchelors degree" from ajarn.com. Was that your mistake or theirs? Either way, ........ eeks!

There's no need to be pedantic. Try coming home after doing a 12hr shift and mis-spelling one word!

Well thanks on the most part people. I wish the likes of Ajarn.com & my TEFL tutors had mentioned the legal side of this a long time ago.

Anyone know where I can rent a room with a high balcony?

[riderpty]

  I've lived in Pattaya and worked in Sirracha for the last three and a half years. I don't find the commuting much of a problem 45 minutes - door to door by motorbike.

I usually take 30 minutes riding my Shadow. But daily? Often in the rain in rainy season? No way. I don't wanna die before me time on Sukhumvit Highway. No, it must be on a bar stool in the TQ, surrounded by half-nekkid black-haired angels, the air pounding with rockandroll hosannahs!

[mbkudu]

All this busuiness about having a degree is <deleted>. Of course it is ideal, but certainly not necessary. Teachers that have degrees go to work in the big international schools like RIS, Pattana or ISB, where the pay is great. Teachers who have no credentials or a TEFL teach everywhere else. The 'fact' that one needs degree to obtain a work permit may be true on paper, but in real life it is not true. I know plenty of teachers working legally with work permits who have

only TEFL certification. If a school wants to hire a person badly enough, they will

get a work permit for that person. A good friend of mine works for a Thai corporation that does consultancy work. He is what is called a 'headhunter.'

He has a work permit to work for them. He used to be a sheet metal fitter in the UK years ago. In other words, he has no degree but knows what he is doing and does it well.

All the information that Ajarn has given is correct, but from what I gather he has lived on the higher level of the food chain. There is always room for the bottom feeders. The Thais know that if they make it too difficult for Farangs to teach here,

it will get very expensive for them to learn English. A high price is acceptable for

the Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese expats, but the Thais won't tolerate it.

[Ajarn]

All the information that Ajarn has given is correct, but from what I gather he has lived on the higher level of the food chain

Just to be clear, I worked in Thailand for 18 years. In the beginning, I taught fulltime for 6,000 baht per month, plus 2,000 baht for housing... And I survived okay on that, believe it or not!

Over the years, as I gained experience and skills, I got better jobs here. In the last few years of teaching, I did quite well for myself. But, I had the qualifications from the get go...

As I said before, any warm body that speaks English can get a teaching job here. That has always been the case, and it always will, I'm sure.

If someone just wants to come here and play awhile, no sweat doing some trashy teaching jobs, but for the poster who wants to settle down here, it's a dead-end road for most teachers teaching illegally, in my experience. I was a DoS, too, and I've hired and supervised hundred's of teachers. Many more failures than successes, in my experience. It really takes special skills and atitudes to live happily here, I feel. Not having the educational requirements to work is one big strike against you, and will, in all likeliness, severly limit your job choices to those 'bottom feeders'. Is that what you want for your life?

I believe someone contemplating moving their life to Thailand should get the straight poop, and then let them sort it all out This is a dog-eat-dog business, and so many clueless newbies arrive here and end up being chewed up and spit out...I'll bet you know of some, too.

[riderpty]

I believe someone contemplating moving their life to Thailand should get the straight poop, and then let them sort it all out This is a dog-eat-dog business, and so many clueless newbies arrive here and end up being chewed up and spit out...

Hear, hear. This is the voice of reason and sanity. Admirable post, all of it.

Requirements are ever being tightened up, esp. since TRT came into power.

Not all jobs may require a degree for a visa/work permit, true. I can speak only about teaching.

If a school is getting something under the table, and if there were a crackdown, who would be blamed? Would the teacher be safe from any prosecution? Seems quite doubtful.