Pretentiousness?: Can you tell Manet from Monet? Is it Van-Go, Van-Goo, or Van-Gockh#@!?

[GammaGlobulin]

Dear Folks,

 

aa. Anytime I mention Van Gogh to friends, family, or acquaintances, I become embarrassed. I worry that if I pronounce Van Gogh as Van Goo or Van GO, I might either be ridiculed or they might think me an pretentious-pric, or they might suspect I am not as learned as I pretend to be.

 

When I try to pronounce Van Gogh as do art historians, then my friends seem to become sort of a "dazed and confused", which is what the super band Led Zeppelin sang about so many years ago.

 

bb.  And, as well, for many years, when I talk to my friends and family about either Manet or Monet, then sometimes it is I, and not they, who get confused.

 

cc.  So the question is:  What to do?  Should I pronounce Van Gogh as I think it should be pronounced?  Or, should I just speak the name, Van GO, like the pronunciation of the game GO, and thereby attempt to ruffle fewer feathers among the people I know?

 

I would prefer the proper pronunciation, but, I, too, find it difficult to say this name without getting a sore throat for the rest of the day, for example.

 

My solution?:  I just say the name BOTH ways.  First I say, VAN GO.  Then, I say, sorry, I meant Van Gogh!

 

dd.  What is the proper etiquette in this circumstance, anyway?

 

ee.  What is the difference between Manet and Monet?  The difference for me is that I love Monet. Monet is a great artists. And Manet was GARBAGE, by comparison.  This is why Van Goo was influenced by Monet and not Manet, fortunately for the world?

 

ff.  But, what about how Manet and Monet look like up close?

 

gg.  Monet's harbor (harbour) paintings are to die for, too.  Maybe I will upload a few here, just for fun.

 

hh.  Here in this backwater of Chiang Mai, I rarely see Van Gogh's work, or Monet's work on exhibit at the local university, even though I also know that the paintings of these two amazing masters actually DO travel the world, and wind up in the strangest places, either illegally or on public exhibit....BUT....not here in Chiang Mai.

 

ii.  If I want to enjoy the paintings which are so uplifting to me during this hellishly hot summer, and the impending storms and floods, sure to hit soon, then what might be the best websites for this?

 

You guys must realize that the internet, due to copyright restrictions, has greatly limited the uploading of TOP QUALITY HIGH RESOLUTION images, images which are almost indistinguishable from the originals. And these once could be viewed on one's HIGH RESOLUTION computer monitors, and I am talking about the computer monitors often used to do engineering work, such as CAD/CAM work.

 

jj.  I try to never come across as being pretentious. Neither do I like to seem condescending, on most days.  And, I would have broached this Topic sooner, if it has not been for this niggling fear of mine.

 

kk.  How many of you have been to see the Van Gogh museum?  I have heard that the building is sort of a work of art and engineering in its own right.  I have ZERO interest in visiting France, just because the French artists do NOT measure up to even one lousy Van Gooo Peach Tree.

 

So, then, ....

What are your thoughts about PRETENTIOUSNESS and Pronunciation of these Foreign Words in English?  Do we try our best to pronounce these names as if we were native-speakers of so many foreign languages?

 

And, too, what about the name CHINA?  Should we pronounce it ZHONGGUO?  And, Canton?  Must this also become GUANGDONG and GUANGZHOU.  And, how would the Cantonese feel about it if they were no longer Cantonese, but instead were referred to a GUANGDONG REN, or GUANGDONG People?

 

I must admit that I have the most difficulty with Van Gogh.  I know what it should sound like.  But, the people around me, such as you people, never pronounce Van Gooo's name the same way, from day to day.

 

So, again, what should we do?

 

Call me bemused in Chiang Mai, now.

 

Best regards,

Gamma

 

 

Note:  By the way, as you know, the Van Gogh museum has a DYNAMIT website where one can download EXTREMELY HIGH RESOLUTION images of many of Van Gogh's paintings.  And, on the museum site one can see EVERY FING brushstroke, even.....

 

https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en

 

I am partial to peach trees painted by Van Gooo.

Squeezing Peaches, too, was once my greatest pleasure in life.

 

NOTE:  Monet or Manet?

 

It's incredible how changing just one letter in the alphabet can turn fine majestic art to GARBAGE.

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Monday]

I learned how to pronounce Gouda cheese in Japan

Somehow I knew the Van Gogh pronunciation before visiting the Nederlanders

capitol but when you try to use  foreign words properly with my fellow Americans

one quickly moves beyond pretention.

 

They have often no I idea what you are talking about

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

5 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

I learned how to pronounce Gouda cheese in Japan

Somehow I knew the Van Gogh pronunciation before visiting the Nederlanders

capitol but when you try to use  foreign words properly with my fellow Americans

one quickly moves beyond pretention.

 

They have often no I idea what you are talking about

 

 

 

I am in udder agreement with you on this point.

 

 

[Yagoda]

Your post was so long and wierd and Im so stoned that I couldnt stop reading it and I cant move fast because of my back and so I just blew uncle stinky's liquid mango and oatmeal mix in my best shorts. Thanks.  Im not reading youir posts anymore.

[worgeordie]

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

then my friends

The biggest surprise for me is that you have friends ,really

 

regards worgeordie

[delgarcon]

"I have ZERO interest in visiting France, just because the French artists do NOT measure up to even one lousy Van Gooo Peach Tree."

 

I worked for a French tour operator a few years ago and more recently part owned a minivan company in the South of France, before coming to Thailand and you would be amazed at just how worthwhile visiting France is.

 

 

[Chris Daley]

It's pronounced AI art.

[GammaGlobulin]

3 hours ago, worgeordie said:

The biggest surprise for me is that you have friends ,really

 

regards worgeordie

 

a.  I regard you as one of my best friends.

 

b. If you are, actually, NOT one of my best friends, then...

 

c. I would be very surprised, too.

 

 

d. In addition, if we are not YET friends, then why can't we be friends?

 

e.  Why? Oh, Why?!

 

e. No reason that I can think of....after all....Don't you and I think, at the elementary level, think alike?

 

I  believe that YOU and I are...

On the same wavelength.

I am sure of it, in fact....

 

NOTE:  Perhaps you are correct.  And, perhaps, also, a word, more apropos, might be "associates". That's right. I have no friends, and instead exist, from day to day, only with associates.  (Still, associates is better than having neither a friend nor an associate.)

 

I was born, alone, you know, and...

So what could anyone reasonably expect of me?

 

 

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, delgarcon said:

"I have ZERO interest in visiting France, just because the French artists do NOT measure up to even one lousy Van Gooo Peach Tree."

 

I worked for a French tour operator a few years ago and more recently part owned a minivan company in the South of France, before coming to Thailand and you would be amazed at just how worthwhile visiting France is.

 

 

 

Not being over-the-top wealthy, I must husband my resources, and spend my money based on a hierarchy of need, and France is nowhere near close to the top.

 

If I were to travel to Europe, this time, I think I would love to first visit Spain, and this is only a matter of personal preference, not some absolute value judgement for all.

 

The French, and the French artists, ....

Their sphincters are too tight for my liking.

 

Spain is where you outta be, if in Europe.

 

Older before her time?

 

Are you not yet tired of Mona?

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

I am surprised the OP did not resort to Bard/Gemini

 

 

 

Vincent van Gogh's name is originally Dutch, so the most accurate pronunciation would be in Dutch. Here's a breakdown:

• Vincent: This part is pronounced similarly to English.
• Van: This is a bit different. The "a" is more open, like the "a" in "father." There's no "v" sound, but rather a voiced uvular fricative, a sound not present in English. You can try making a guttural "h" sound from the back of your throat.
• Gogh: The "g" is not like the "g" in "go." It's closer to a guttural "ch" sound, like the Scottish pronunciation of "loch."

However, in English, we often pronounce names with Anglicized versions. So, it's perfectly acceptable to say "Van Gogh" with the following:

• Van: Pronounced like "van" in English.
• Gogh: Pronounced like "cough" in English.

Ultimately, there's no wrong way to pronounce it in casual conversation. But if you'd like to try the more Dutch approach, there are many resources online that can help you with the pronunciation [YouTube video on pronouncing Van Gogh].

[Lacessit]

17 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Not being over-the-top wealthy, I must husband my resources, and spend my money based on a hierarchy of need, and France is nowhere near close to the top.

 

 

 

Spain is where you outta be, if in Europe.

 

Older before her time?

 

Are you not yet tired of Mona?

 

 

 

The Prado in Madrid will saturate your mind with as much art as anyone can accommodate.

[GammaGlobulin]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am surprised the OP did not resort to Bard/Gemini

 

 

 

Vincent van Gogh's name is originally Dutch, so the most accurate pronunciation would be in Dutch. Here's a breakdown:

• Vincent: This part is pronounced similarly to English.
• Van: This is a bit different. The "a" is more open, like the "a" in "father." There's no "v" sound, but rather a voiced uvular fricative, a sound not present in English. You can try making a guttural "h" sound from the back of your throat.
• Gogh: The "g" is not like the "g" in "go." It's closer to a guttural "ch" sound, like the Scottish pronunciation of "loch."

However, in English, we often pronounce names with Anglicized versions. So, it's perfectly acceptable to say "Van Gogh" with the following:

• Van: Pronounced like "van" in English.
• Gogh: Pronounced like "cough" in English.

Ultimately, there's no wrong way to pronounce it in casual conversation. But if you'd like to try the more Dutch approach, there are many resources online that can help you with the pronunciation [YouTube video on pronouncing Van Gogh].

 

Having found Bard wanting...

I now very rarely waste my time talking to him.

I suggest that others might also think twice before being led astray.

But, do as you will.

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

33 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The Prado in Madrid will saturate your mind with as much art as anyone can accommodate.

 

NICE!

 

Thank you, by the way!

 

Maybe not PEACH TREES...but...

Maybe, the next best thing....

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

14 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Having found Bard wanting...

I now very rarely waste my time talking to him.

I suggest that others might also think twice before being led astray.

But, do as you will.

 

 

I agree. I cross-check Bard with other resources.

[GammaGlobulin]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I agree. I cross-check Bard with other resources.

 

The principal problem ensues when AI becomes a biased filter between us and truth, or between us and historical fact, or between us and almost anything related to reality and the world around us.

 

 

[spidermike007]

There's nothing pretentious about possessing a level of sophistication and education, a knowledge of art, fine wine, etc., or a curiosity about the world. There are people out there who will be put off by it, embarrassed by it and will try to make you feel pretentious, because of their ignorance.

 

This has nothing to do with anything, dimwits are to be ignored at all times. 

[newbee2022]

20 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Dear Folks,

 

aa. Anytime I mention Van Gogh to friends, family, or acquaintances, I become embarrassed. I worry that if I pronounce Van Gogh as Van Goo or Van GO, I might either be ridiculed or they might think me an pretentious-pric, or they might suspect I am not as learned as I pretend to be.

 

When I try to pronounce Van Gogh as do art historians, then my friends seem to become sort of a "dazed and confused", which is what the super band Led Zeppelin sang about so many years ago.

 

bb.  And, as well, for many years, when I talk to my friends and family about either Manet or Monet, then sometimes it is I, and not they, who get confused.

 

cc.  So the question is:  What to do?  Should I pronounce Van Gogh as I think it should be pronounced?  Or, should I just speak the name, Van GO, like the pronunciation of the game GO, and thereby attempt to ruffle fewer feathers among the people I know?

 

I would prefer the proper pronunciation, but, I, too, find it difficult to say this name without getting a sore throat for the rest of the day, for example.

 

My solution?:  I just say the name BOTH ways.  First I say, VAN GO.  Then, I say, sorry, I meant Van Gogh!

 

dd.  What is the proper etiquette in this circumstance, anyway?

 

ee.  What is the difference between Manet and Monet?  The difference for me is that I love Monet. Monet is a great artists. And Manet was GARBAGE, by comparison.  This is why Van Goo was influenced by Monet and not Manet, fortunately for the world?

 

ff.  But, what about how Manet and Monet look like up close?

 

gg.  Monet's harbor (harbour) paintings are to die for, too.  Maybe I will upload a few here, just for fun.

 

hh.  Here in this backwater of Chiang Mai, I rarely see Van Gogh's work, or Monet's work on exhibit at the local university, even though I also know that the paintings of these two amazing masters actually DO travel the world, and wind up in the strangest places, either illegally or on public exhibit....BUT....not here in Chiang Mai.

 

ii.  If I want to enjoy the paintings which are so uplifting to me during this hellishly hot summer, and the impending storms and floods, sure to hit soon, then what might be the best websites for this?

 

You guys must realize that the internet, due to copyright restrictions, has greatly limited the uploading of TOP QUALITY HIGH RESOLUTION images, images which are almost indistinguishable from the originals. And these once could be viewed on one's HIGH RESOLUTION computer monitors, and I am talking about the computer monitors often used to do engineering work, such as CAD/CAM work.

 

jj.  I try to never come across as being pretentious. Neither do I like to seem condescending, on most days.  And, I would have broached this Topic sooner, if it has not been for this niggling fear of mine.

 

kk.  How many of you have been to see the Van Gogh museum?  I have heard that the building is sort of a work of art and engineering in its own right.  I have ZERO interest in visiting France, just because the French artists do NOT measure up to even one lousy Van Gooo Peach Tree.

 

So, then, ....

What are your thoughts about PRETENTIOUSNESS and Pronunciation of these Foreign Words in English?  Do we try our best to pronounce these names as if we were native-speakers of so many foreign languages?

 

And, too, what about the name CHINA?  Should we pronounce it ZHONGGUO?  And, Canton?  Must this also become GUANGDONG and GUANGZHOU.  And, how would the Cantonese feel about it if they were no longer Cantonese, but instead were referred to a GUANGDONG REN, or GUANGDONG People?

 

I must admit that I have the most difficulty with Van Gogh.  I know what it should sound like.  But, the people around me, such as you people, never pronounce Van Gooo's name the same way, from day to day.

 

So, again, what should we do?

 

Call me bemused in Chiang Mai, now.

 

Best regards,

Gamma

 

 

Note:  By the way, as you know, the Van Gogh museum has a DYNAMIT website where one can download EXTREMELY HIGH RESOLUTION images of many of Van Gogh's paintings.  And, on the museum site one can see EVERY FING brushstroke, even.....

 

https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en

 

I am partial to peach trees painted by Van Gooo.

Squeezing Peaches, too, was once my greatest pleasure in life.

 

NOTE:  Monet or Manet?

 

It's incredible how changing just one letter in the alphabet can turn fine majestic art to GARBAGE.

 

 

 

 

 

Many questions.

If your friends are too illiterate avoid to talk about difficult things.

On the other hand it might be that your French pronunciation is not correct. (what is a common problem for US and UK people).

Google might be helpful for you and your friends🙏

[SportRider]

Herewith lies the path to madness... 

 

How to properly pronounce "Pattaya". 

 

Like the majority of tourists and some esteemed Youtubers?  Or prententiously like the Thais, only to be looked at in confusion by said tourists. 

 

🤔

 

[Gsxrnz]

I suddenly feel suicidal.

[PETERTHEEATER]

On 5/8/2024 at 5:16 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

Dear Folks,

 

aa. Anytime I mention Van Gogh to friends, family, or acquaintances, I become embarrassed. I worry that if I pronounce Van Gogh as Van Goo or Van GO, I might either be ridiculed or they might think me an pretentious-pric, or they might suspect I am not as learned as I pretend to be.

 

When I try to pronounce Van Gogh as do art historians, then my friends seem to become sort of a "dazed and confused", which is what the super band Led Zeppelin sang about so many years ago.

 

bb.  And, as well, for many years, when I talk to my friends and family about either Manet or Monet, then sometimes it is I, and not they, who get confused.

 

cc.  So the question is:  What to do?  Should I pronounce Van Gogh as I think it should be pronounced?  Or, should I just speak the name, Van GO, like the pronunciation of the game GO, and thereby attempt to ruffle fewer feathers among the people I know?

 

I would prefer the proper pronunciation, but, I, too, find it difficult to say this name without getting a sore throat for the rest of the day, for example.

 

My solution?:  I just say the name BOTH ways.  First I say, VAN GO.  Then, I say, sorry, I meant Van Gogh!

 

dd.  What is the proper etiquette in this circumstance, anyway?

 

ee.  What is the difference between Manet and Monet?  The difference for me is that I love Monet. Monet is a great artists. And Manet was GARBAGE, by comparison.  This is why Van Goo was influenced by Monet and not Manet, fortunately for the world?

 

ff.  But, what about how Manet and Monet look like up close?

 

gg.  Monet's harbor (harbour) paintings are to die for, too.  Maybe I will upload a few here, just for fun.

 

hh.  Here in this backwater of Chiang Mai, I rarely see Van Gogh's work, or Monet's work on exhibit at the local university, even though I also know that the paintings of these two amazing masters actually DO travel the world, and wind up in the strangest places, either illegally or on public exhibit....BUT....not here in Chiang Mai.

 

ii.  If I want to enjoy the paintings which are so uplifting to me during this hellishly hot summer, and the impending storms and floods, sure to hit soon, then what might be the best websites for this?

 

You guys must realize that the internet, due to copyright restrictions, has greatly limited the uploading of TOP QUALITY HIGH RESOLUTION images, images which are almost indistinguishable from the originals. And these once could be viewed on one's HIGH RESOLUTION computer monitors, and I am talking about the computer monitors often used to do engineering work, such as CAD/CAM work.

 

jj.  I try to never come across as being pretentious. Neither do I like to seem condescending, on most days.  And, I would have broached this Topic sooner, if it has not been for this niggling fear of mine.

 

kk.  How many of you have been to see the Van Gogh museum?  I have heard that the building is sort of a work of art and engineering in its own right.  I have ZERO interest in visiting France, just because the French artists do NOT measure up to even one lousy Van Gooo Peach Tree.

 

So, then, ....

What are your thoughts about PRETENTIOUSNESS and Pronunciation of these Foreign Words in English?  Do we try our best to pronounce these names as if we were native-speakers of so many foreign languages?

 

And, too, what about the name CHINA?  Should we pronounce it ZHONGGUO?  And, Canton?  Must this also become GUANGDONG and GUANGZHOU.  And, how would the Cantonese feel about it if they were no longer Cantonese, but instead were referred to a GUANGDONG REN, or GUANGDONG People?

 

I must admit that I have the most difficulty with Van Gogh.  I know what it should sound like.  But, the people around me, such as you people, never pronounce Van Gooo's name the same way, from day to day.

 

So, again, what should we do?

 

Call me bemused in Chiang Mai, now.

 

Best regards,

Gamma

 

 

Note:  By the way, as you know, the Van Gogh museum has a DYNAMIT website where one can download EXTREMELY HIGH RESOLUTION images of many of Van Gogh's paintings.  And, on the museum site one can see EVERY FING brushstroke, even.....

 

https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en

 

I am partial to peach trees painted by Van Gooo.

Squeezing Peaches, too, was once my greatest pleasure in life.

 

NOTE:  Monet or Manet?

 

It's incredible how changing just one letter in the alphabet can turn fine majestic art to GARBAGE.

 

 

 

 

 

Naafi van Driver was my favourite. RIP

[Dirk Z]

It is van Gogh. G at the end, not pronounced like in clog.

[jvs]

1 minute ago, Dirk Z said:

It is van Gogh. G at the end, not pronounced like in clog.

It is pronounced with a g at the end,at least in van Gogh's native language.

[radiochaser]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:38 AM, GammaGlobulin said:

 

a.  I regard you as one of my best friends.

 

b. If you are, actually, NOT one of my best friends, then...

 

c. I would be very surprised, too.

 

 

d. In addition, if we are not YET friends, then why can't we be friends?

 

e.  Why? Oh, Why?!

 

e. No reason that I can think of....after all....Don't you and I think, at the elementary level, think alike?

 

I  believe that YOU and I are...

On the same wavelength.

I am sure of it, in fact....

 

NOTE:  Perhaps you are correct.  And, perhaps, also, a word, more apropos, might be "associates". That's right. I have no friends, and instead exist, from day to day, only with associates.  (Still, associates is better than having neither a friend nor an associate.)

 

I was born, alone, you know, and...

So what could anyone reasonably expect of me?

 

 

 

 

Thanks.   I haven't heard War for a long while.   I have not heard them on the local radio station that plays oldy goodies.  That remastered version sounds pretty good. 

[Dirk Z]

20 hours ago, jvs said:

It is pronounced with a g at the end,at least in van Gogh's native language.

That's what I said. Only the g is pronounced guttural. Not like in clog.

[GammaGlobulin]

6 hours ago, radiochaser said:

Thanks.   I haven't heard War for a long while.   I have not heard them on the local radio station that plays oldy goodies.  That remastered version sounds pretty good. 

 

My pleasure.

 

In the future, please feel free to TUNE-IN to GAMMA for all the latest HITs....

 

 

[GammaGlobulin]

3 hours ago, Dirk Z said:

That's what I said. Only the g is pronounced guttural. Not like in clog.

 

Of course, we know the correct pronunciation of the name van Gogh.

The problem occurs when we pronounce the name to others from places like America, and then get funny stares, which I find embarrassing.