sbk Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 My grandmother was a devout Christian and gained alot of strength and peace in times of crisis. Gods will, gone with Jesus etc. We've all heard the platitudes (gosh, that sounded worse than I meant). Anyway, what beliefs do Buddhists draw on when the sh!t hits the fan? And I mean everything, I'd be interested in what some rituals that I see (which appear to be superstitious rather than anything Buddhist) have to do with Buddhism, if anything. As well as Buddhist teachings that some draw strength from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 Generally, in times of crisis, we buddhists seek refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha. In other words, our teachers, our teachings and literature, and our spiritual community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted August 5, 2007 Author Share Posted August 5, 2007 Anything specific you can relate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chownah Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 (edited) According to the Buddha's own words he taught one thing and one thing only: the end of suffering. So, you can see that Buddhists who actively pursue the understanding and the practice of the Buddha's teachings are moving to the point of strength as you describe it...although those who follow the Buddha's teachings would likely say that they meet adversity with equanimity rather than strength. So, to completely answer your question involves the study of the Buddha's teachings in general....but....a "technique" used by some is to remember that all things are impermanent and this too will pass. The concept of impermanence is called annica in Pali and is one of the most basic and important concepts in the Buddha's teachings. Edited August 5, 2007 by chownah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaicurious Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 (edited) i've found that one concept buddhism touches on moreso than judeochristian thinking is that though we might not be able to control all we experience, we are able--in many ways--to affect how we experience what we experience. so that you don't just have to suffer through suffering, rather you can actually continue to smile even when times are bad. so practical yet perhaps not so easy to practice, i love this quote by shantideva "if suffering can be corrected, then there's no need to be despondent. and if it cannot be remedied, there is no benefit even if one becomes unhappy." edit: forgot to mention my modern interpretation of that: "being miserable won't make you any happier." Edited August 5, 2007 by thaicurious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloody tiger Posted August 5, 2007 Share Posted August 5, 2007 strive to achieve that, which in hindsight, will not be reflected upon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerata Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Anyway, what beliefs do Buddhists draw on when the sh!t hits the fan? And I mean everything, I'd be interested in what some rituals that I see (which appear to be superstitious rather than anything Buddhist) have to do with Buddhism, if anything. As well as Buddhist teachings that some draw strength from. I think a lot of Buddhists who were "born Buddhist" would rely on the protection of the Buddha (in some vague way) in a similar way to how Christians rely on god. If the crisis involves the possibility of death they would be relying on having a good rebirth due to their accumulated merit in this lifetime. At a deeper level of practice, a Buddhist would take comfort in karma, i.e. that if we've acted skillfully we'll reap the benefit of those actions in the future, even though the present might look bleak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 (edited) Anyway, what beliefs do Buddhists draw on when the sh!t hits the fan? And I mean everything, I'd be interested in what some rituals that I see (which appear to be superstitious rather than anything Buddhist) have to do with Buddhism, if anything. As well as Buddhist teachings that some draw strength from. Some time ago in a chanting thread, and off the top of my head, sabaijai was saying he was in a train when it derailed or shook violently, life threateningly, throwing people around etc. Apparently some devoted Thai Buddhists went on the floor and started chanting, and praying (for the buddha to save them?) !! Edited August 6, 2007 by Grover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villagefarang Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 It seems sad to me that there are so many people in the world who need a crutch to lean on or someone to tell them what to do or think or believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suegha Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 It seems sad to me that there are so many people in the world who need a crutch to lean on or someone to tell them what to do or think or believe. A belief is not necessarily a crutch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garro Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 Buddhism gives my life meaning and this is all that matters. If it gets me from A to B then it has done its job. Call it a crutch if you want but it works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordWill Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 I think it depends on the "type" of buddhism you want to know about, after all, the eloquence with which some Buddhist posters here might relate their experiences will differ wildly from the average Thai on the street and how they view their religion. Animist beliefs for the Northerners, for example, lend their rituals to Buddhist situations. An Esarn person may go to a Temple and then do something animist, which has over time become buddhist, to help them through a bad time. Such as putting out double the amount of offerings on the shrine. Making twice as much merit as before. Many of my friends explain their bad luck through their lazyness in making merit - i.e. I have been forgetting to go to the temple, so I am having bad luck. Its my fault, I need to work harder to make merit. Psychologically there is a sort of cathartic element to this reasoning, because you dont need to worry about the whys or wherefores.. you know why it happened, and it was your fault. Be humble, go and make merit. Everything will be ok again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabaijai Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 It depends on what you mean by 'shit hits the fan'. If this means emotional turmoil, there are specific techniques, under the general rubric of satipatthana vipassana, for dealing with emotions and feelings that we perceive as unpleasant or negative. In a nutshell one focuses on the physical manifestations of the 'bad' emotion and eventually come to realise that what we perceive as solid emotions or feelings are largely made up of bodily sensations that are arising and falling away from moment to moment. Once your mind is trained not to fall into the physical cycle that generates our perception of emotion, the negatively perceived emotions and feelings lessen in degree or fade away completely. If by shit hitting the fan you mean a situational crisis where action is demanded, then the same training comes in handy for facing the situation calmly and expediently, with heightened awareness or concentration. That's more or less the satipatthana or mindfulness perspective, as Buddha prescribed in the Maha-Satipatthana Sutta. Of course Thai Buddhism has many rituals designed for times of stress, illness, death and so on. The Buddha himself, in the discourses, doesn't make mention of these, as far as I've been able to find out perusing the Tripitaka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted August 6, 2007 Share Posted August 6, 2007 During times of suffering, as a buddhist, I try to remember that there is a path that leads to the cessation of suffering. I try to remember the practices and teachings regarding that path and I try to stick around those close to me on that path. Buddhism is about salvation and redemption, for me; so that whatever I feel has caused the suffering, I feel that liberation from it and happiness are possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucenkhamen Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 A belief is not necessarily a crutch! I'm afraid I can't think of anything else it is, when we are talking about faith based belief that is. Perhaps a way to abdicate responsibility or avoid thinking for ones self but then I think they both come under the crutch umbrella. In the case of the traditonal Thai buddhist that's exactly what their religion is. The example of the thais in a train wreck is a good one, falling to their knees trying to persuade some far distant power to spare their lives. A genuine practicing buddhist would hope in that situation to have developed enough wisdom and piece of mind to face the situation lucidly with no regrets, maybe he'd find a way out and maybe he'd die, but hopefully he wouldn't waste his last moments begging some far distant power to spare his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 A belief is not necessarily a crutch! I'm afraid I can't think of anything else it is, when we are talking about faith based belief that is. Perhaps a way to abdicate responsibility or avoid thinking for ones self but then I think they both come under the crutch umbrella. In the case of the traditonal Thai buddhist that's exactly what their religion is. The example of the thais in a train wreck is a good one, falling to their knees trying to persuade some far distant power to spare their lives. A genuine practicing buddhist would hope in that situation to have developed enough wisdom and piece of mind to face the situation lucidly with no regrets, maybe he'd find a way out and maybe he'd die, but hopefully he wouldn't waste his last moments begging some far distant power to spare his life. Thanks for sharing your beliefs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted August 7, 2007 Author Share Posted August 7, 2007 Anyway, what beliefs do Buddhists draw on when the sh!t hits the fan? And I mean everything, I'd be interested in what some rituals that I see (which appear to be superstitious rather than anything Buddhist) have to do with Buddhism, if anything. As well as Buddhist teachings that some draw strength from. I think a lot of Buddhists who were "born Buddhist" would rely on the protection of the Buddha (in some vague way) in a similar way to how Christians rely on god. If the crisis involves the possibility of death they would be relying on having a good rebirth due to their accumulated merit in this lifetime. At a deeper level of practice, a Buddhist would take comfort in karma, i.e. that if we've acted skillfully we'll reap the benefit of those actions in the future, even though the present might look bleak. I was talking to my husband about this, and he says he doesn't believe in re-birth. That you are born, you live and you die and you try to live the best life and be the best person possible. This is his interpretation of the Buddha's teachings as I understand it. Thanks for your explanation Sabaijai, that makes alot of sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucenkhamen Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Thanks for sharing your beliefs! I think the appropriate word here is "opinions" rather than "beliefs", two very different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chownah Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Thanks for sharing your beliefs! I think the appropriate word here is "opinions" rather than "beliefs", two very different things. What do you see as the difference between "opinions", "beliefs", and "views"....hoping that we don't go too far off topic here....I'm just wondering since I use these terms quite a bit and I'm wondering how my choice of words might be seen by others. Chownah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaicurious Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 In a nutshell one focuses on the physical manifestations of the 'bad' emotion and eventually come to realise that what we perceive as solid emotions or feelings are largely made up of bodily sensations that are arising and falling away from moment to moment. Once your mind is trained not to fall into the physical cycle that generates our perception of emotion, the negatively perceived emotions and feelings lessen in degree or fade away completely. when i buried mom this year i learned to let go of some of my sadness by seeing that even in grief i had happy times and laughter with family & friends. whenever i got very sad, i brought to mind that just a few minutes ago or a day ago i wasn't so sad, that i was happy even while undergoing the very same experience of mourning which now is making me sad. realizing that i could be both happy & sad in my mourning--when nothing about the mourning changed and nothing about losing my mom had changed--realizing that my emotions were somewhat independent of the reality of having just lost my mom made it easier to handle being so sad when i was sad and helped take some of that sadness away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucenkhamen Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Thanks for sharing your beliefs! I think the appropriate word here is "opinions" rather than "beliefs", two very different things. What do you see as the difference between "opinions", "beliefs", and "views"....hoping that we don't go too far off topic here....I'm just wondering since I use these terms quite a bit and I'm wondering how my choice of words might be seen by others. Chownah Looking at the online dictionary: BELIEVE 1 a : to have a firm religious faith b : to accept as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts> 3 : to hold an opinion : THINK <I believe so> I see the first meaning as the main one, certainly as we were discussing faith based belief. Perhaps mdeland was being ironic and I didn't catch on, i didn't think of the other meaning at the time. Opinions are quite different to faith based beliefs. I don't think this thread was discussing opinions, rather people were giving their opinions about the value of beliefs. The term "View" has a specific meaning in Buddhist circles and most people who have studied theravadin buddhism a little will catch onto your meaning. Otherwise maybe they might assume you were using another word for opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicegirl Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 It seems sad to me that there are so many people in the world who need a crutch to lean on or someone to tell them what to do or think or believe. A belief is not necessarily a crutch! I'm with you villagef and brucenk but you should be careful when questioning other's beliefs. They can get very upset with nonbelievers. Belief doesn't leave room for questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rychrde Posted August 7, 2007 Share Posted August 7, 2007 Thanks for sharing your beliefs! I think the appropriate word here is "opinions" rather than "beliefs", two very different things. What do you see as the difference between "opinions", "beliefs", and "views"....hoping that we don't go too far off topic here....I'm just wondering since I use these terms quite a bit and I'm wondering how my choice of words might be seen by others. Chownah Looking at the online dictionary: BELIEVE 1 a : to have a firm religious faith b : to accept as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts> 3 : to hold an opinion : THINK <I believe so> I see the first meaning as the main one, certainly as we were discussing faith based belief. Perhaps mdeland was being ironic and I didn't catch on, i didn't think of the other meaning at the time. Opinions are quite different to faith based beliefs. I don't think this thread was discussing opinions, rather people were giving their opinions about the value of beliefs. The term "View" has a specific meaning in Buddhist circles and most people who have studied theravadin buddhism a little will catch onto your meaning. Otherwise maybe they might assume you were using another word for opinion. agreed! and believers (fideists) should not get away with muddying the water by claiming every point of view is a belief. 'I believe in heaven' is a million miles away from 'I believe the sun will rise tomorrow' - absolutely different states of mind and metaphysical positions. I seem to be having a rash of deaths in my Thai family of late. Funeral rites currently going on for grandfather-in-law, cremation in 2 days, when I will attend. I don't think Theravadan Buddhists beleve in an intermediate state, like the Tibetan Bardo, so most prayers are directed towards achieving a propitious rebirth. families grieve, as they do everywhere in the world, but the cycle goes on. The belief that everything is impermanent, including grief, means there is less of the 'wailing and gnashing of teeth' as seen in some other religions. I may, of course, see different in a couple of days! rych Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordWill Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 'I believe in heaven' is a million miles away from 'I believe the sun will rise tomorrow' - absolutely different states of mind and metaphysical positions. I think hume would beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chownah Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 'I believe in heaven' is a million miles away from 'I believe the sun will rise tomorrow' So what does this have to do with the difference in meaning between "belief" and "opinion"...I don't see it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villagefarang Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 'I believe in heaven' is a million miles away from 'I believe the sun will rise tomorrow' So what does this have to do with the difference in meaning between "belief" and "opinion"...I don't see it here. Somebody please help this guy, he can't "see it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suegha Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 A belief is not necessarily a crutch! I'm afraid I can't think of anything else it is, when we are talking about faith based belief that is. Perhaps a way to abdicate responsibility or avoid thinking for ones self but then I think they both come under the crutch umbrella. In the case of the traditonal Thai buddhist that's exactly what their religion is. The example of the thais in a train wreck is a good one, falling to their knees trying to persuade some far distant power to spare their lives. A genuine practicing buddhist would hope in that situation to have developed enough wisdom and piece of mind to face the situation lucidly with no regrets, maybe he'd find a way out and maybe he'd die, but hopefully he wouldn't waste his last moments begging some far distant power to spare his life. That's why I used the word 'necessarily'! For some I'm sure it is a crutch. For some their faith is a path to enlightenment. I believe that all things in my life happen for the good - even bad things. A belief is not a 'rabbits foot'! (again for some it may be) Good and bad hapens to all men, it's how you perceive the events that matters and this is where my faith helps me. Oh, and just to deal with the "abdicate responsibility or avoid thinking for ones self" My faith means that I must constantly think for myself and take personal responsibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suegha Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 It seems sad to me that there are so many people in the world who need a crutch to lean on or someone to tell them what to do or think or believe. A belief is not necessarily a crutch! I'm with you villagef and brucenk but you should be careful when questioning other's beliefs. They can get very upset with nonbelievers. Belief doesn't leave room for questions. Oh yes it does nicegirl! Belief means the constant asking of questions. It's a voyage of discovery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suegha Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 'I believe in heaven' is a million miles away from 'I believe the sun will rise tomorrow' So what does this have to do with the difference in meaning between "belief" and "opinion"...I don't see it here. You're correct chownah. People are splitting hairs here. Your opinions are based on your beliefs and vise versa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brucenkhamen Posted August 8, 2007 Share Posted August 8, 2007 'I believe in heaven' is a million miles away from 'I believe the sun will rise tomorrow' So what does this have to do with the difference in meaning between "belief" and "opinion"...I don't see it here. I don't think he was addressing that particular point. I think opinion is more to do with preference or value judgement. If I say "I think Apple is better than Microsoft" that's an opinion in my opinion, if I say "I think we can win the world cup" that's more a belief. It doesn't matter if we understand words differently though as long as we can understand each other in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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