Car Battery

[Spaniel]

I bought a new Civic in 2003 and at 34,000 km had to get a new battery for B1500. I now have 70,000 km on it. Should I replace the battery or wait till it konks out?

[tracker]

You will notice your battery getting weaker, IF, your car is in order. Watch for signs like slower rotation of starter-motor. Change it before it you have to push.... Also consider the type: those gel/no maintenance crap, have a short life-span, while the standard water-filled can serve you 7 years.

After 2 gels, with a lifespan of 1.5 years and 8 months, I am now back to distilled water.... for 2 years, that is.

[Crossy]

Lead-acid batteries in tropical environments tend to fail suddenly although you may notice some weakening it's nowhere near as noticeable as it is in cooler climes.

I've had two batteries fail (one here, one in Malaysia), I noticed no weakening or slow cranking, just one morning, nothing, dead as the proverbial Dodo. Neither would take charge and needed to be replaced.

If I were you and you can afford the day when it won't start, just wait for the battery to fail. Otherwise 2-3 years should be a reasonable life for a regular car type battery.

[PeaceBlondie]

If you google here in the Motoring forum for 'battery' you may get the long thread where they discussed all the technicalities. I'm still amazed that my CBR150 battery now has four years and 45,000 km and still going strong. I don't expect the tiny battery in the Nissan NX to last two years.

[Moonfruit]

My last battery lasted about 14 months. Then,as Crossy said, one morning, dead as a dodo.

The previous one lasted about 18 months. I will now change it every 12 months. Its only a couple thousand baht after all.

[percy2]

You will notice your battery getting weaker, IF, your car is in order. Watch for signs like slower rotation of starter-motor. Change it before it you have to push.... Also consider the type: those gel/no maintenance crap, have a short life-span, while the standard water-filled can serve you 7 years.

After 2 gels, with a lifespan of 1.5 years and 8 months, I am now back to distilled water.... for 2 years, that is.

In my experience I find the complete reverse is true.

I think Crossy is correct as regards standard Lead-acid batteries.

Cheers

[stingray]

Buy YUSA or Panasonic brand, they life is about 3 to 4 year. If you buy the "Green One" FB Brand, you can replace after 3 to 6 months, theyr life is very short.

[bazmlb]

Just put a new 3K in Belta the L200 (real old L200) it looked like the battery had been in there for at least 5 years, new one nearly made it flip upside down it cranks that fast, its got a 3K N70

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

I'm now on the fourth battery in my Volvo 460 since i got that car in early 2002. The first one was done with after a short during an aircon repair, the next one was a cheap "National" which required water to be refilled every couple of weeks or so, this lasted barely 6 months (warranty 3 months!) and did cost just around 900 Baht.

I then bought a "3K" maintenance free and that lasted long - almost four years. It didn't "die like Dodo" but became weaker and weaker to the point that the car would not start even tough the starter was turning fine - not enough "juice" left for the ignition or fuel pump i guess (stupid electronic cars anyway). The price of that battery was little over 2.000 Baht and it came with 15 months warranty.

Currently i have a "Panasonic" in there, again a maintenance-free one. This was fitted just in May this year and did cost almost 3.000 Baht, but it's larger than the ones before (75 AH vs. 55 AH original) and has a 18-month warranty.

Problem with my car is that when it's not being moved, the battery would go flat within one week - there is some electronic stuff in there that's constantly "on", i guess the engine management computer or whatever (i'm mechanic but these electronic gimmicks get me every time) and i just traced the wire that was pulling 850 mA when there was no key in the ignition, cut that and put a switch inside the glove compartment to switch this "on" when i want to drive. Now the battery won't go flat (the car still draws some electricity for clock and radio memory, but it's negligable - some 15 mA). And on a side line, without that switch being "on" the car wouldn't start - the starter runs but won't fire, cool theft protection . This car is moved only on weekends or for long-distance drives - during the week my motorbike brings me faster and cheaper to where ever i wish to go.

In the motorbike i am also on battery #3 already since i got it - they barely last one year (but to be fair i never check the water etc as i would need to partly dismantle the bike to get to it). I just replace it when the indicators stop working, such battery only cost 250 Baht.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[elkangorito]

You will notice your battery getting weaker, IF, your car is in order. Watch for signs like slower rotation of starter-motor. Change it before it you have to push.... Also consider the type: those gel/no maintenance crap, have a short life-span, while the standard water-filled can serve you 7 years.

After 2 gels, with a lifespan of 1.5 years and 8 months, I am now back to distilled water.... for 2 years, that is.

In my experience I find the complete reverse is true.

I think Crossy is correct as regards standard Lead-acid batteries.

Cheers

In actual fact, tracker is correct.

In tropical climates, "maintenance free" batteries lose electrolyte. Because they are sealed, the electrolyte cannot be replaced. This means that the battery will become evermore defficient in electrolyte & therefore fail sooner. "Maintenance free" lead-acid batteries are very good in cooler climates.

Gel batteries are not designed for hot weather at all. Generally, they are designed to operate at between 20 & 25 degrees Celsius. Anything above 25 degrees will greatly reduce the discharge capacity, charge rate & capacity as well as reduce its' life.

It is highly recommended that standard lead-acid batteries be used in tropical climates.

Anyway, as peaceblondie has said, this topic has been discussed extensively in another thread.

[Lickey]

Maintainence free batteries, yes, ok for a year perhaps, but you can pry the tops of the cells and inspect the inside, once youve got the tops of, if the cells have acid but have like growths on the plates, or the plates are bent or twisted, thats the end of the battery, if the fluid level is below the plates, top-up with distilled water, if there is a stong acid smell and the battery is hot after a run, its your vehicle overcharging or the wrong battery for your vechile, and as a PP said, check all courtesy lights, put your mrs in the boot and close it, if the light stays on, or even the engine compartment! disconecting these lights could help.

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery, and if no faults found so far, could be your starter or alternator at fault,

I am writing this as a qualified truck/auto trans engineer, if you have any doubts with the above tests, please get qualified help.

Cheers, Lickey..

[corkscrew]

We've been lucky....so far no failures on our cars.

[Tywais]

Had my car for 12 years and replaced the battery 3 times, so average of 3-4 years per battery.

[elkangorito]

Maintainence free batteries, yes, ok for a year perhaps, but you can pry the tops of the cells and inspect the inside, once youve got the tops of, if the cells have acid but have like growths on the plates, or the plates are bent or twisted, thats the end of the battery, if the fluid level is below the plates, top-up with distilled water, if there is a stong acid smell and the battery is hot after a run, its your vehicle overcharging or the wrong battery for your vechile, and as a PP said, check all courtesy lights, put your mrs in the boot and close it, if the light stays on, or even the engine compartment! disconecting these lights could help.

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery, and if no faults found so far, could be your starter or alternator at fault,

I am writing this as a qualified truck/auto trans engineer, if you have any doubts with the above tests, please get qualified help.

Cheers, Lickey..

Just some questions;

1] what does a 'strong acid smell', smell like?

2] what is a 'run'?

3] what is the maximum permissible temperature for a battery, considering it is located in the engine bay in close proximity to a hot engine?

4] what test can be done to verify if the battery is being overcharged or not?

5]

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery

If this has to be done for 5 seconds, won't this damage the starter motor?

What do the bubbles from cells indicate?

Is there another way to load test a battery?

[Lickey]

Maintainence free batteries, yes, ok for a year perhaps, but you can pry the tops of the cells and inspect the inside, once youve got the tops of, if the cells have acid but have like growths on the plates, or the plates are bent or twisted, thats the end of the battery, if the fluid level is below the plates, top-up with distilled water, if there is a stong acid smell and the battery is hot after a run, its your vehicle overcharging or the wrong battery for your vechile, and as a PP said, check all courtesy lights, put your mrs in the boot and close it, if the light stays on, or even the engine compartment! disconecting these lights could help.

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery, and if no faults found so far, could be your starter or alternator at fault,

I am writing this as a qualified truck/auto trans engineer, if you have any doubts with the above tests, please get qualified help.

Cheers, Lickey..

Just some questions;

1] what does a 'strong acid smell', smell like?

2] what is a 'run'?

3] what is the maximum permissible temperature for a battery, considering it is located in the engine bay in close proximity to a hot engine?

4] what test can be done to verify if the battery is being overcharged or not?

5]

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery

If this has to be done for 5 seconds, won't this damage the starter motor?

What do the bubbles from cells indicate?

Is there another way to load test a battery?

1 strong acid smell, bit like a strong toilet cleaner,

2, 20ks would be classed as a run.

3, Battery tempeture, yes, ok always in the hot engine department, "a hot battery" will be acompanied with a strong smell,

4, again, overcharging will produce a hot acid smell, start engine, allow to tick-over, put on headlights, air-con max, hazard lights ect, make mental note of tickover speed on rev-counter, rev engine t0 approx 3000rpm, allow to tick-over again, turn off things 1 at a time, note tick-over as you do this, if the revs rise perhaps 100 rpm that will show you alternator is ok and battery is ok, IE keeping this working for you,

It is usually recommended not to engage a starter motor for more than 30 seconds at a time with 1 minute intervals to allow cooling, 5 seconds of a "stuck" starter motor will not harm it if in resonable condition,

Bubbles and smells from the battery suggests worn and buckled plates, time to replace before it lets you down!

PS, air-con uses 10% of engine power, once over 60kmp, try turning it off, adjust controls for outside air, very economical,

Hope this info is useful, Thanks, Lickey.

[elkangorito]

Maintainence free batteries, yes, ok for a year perhaps, but you can pry the tops of the cells and inspect the inside, once youve got the tops of, if the cells have acid but have like growths on the plates, or the plates are bent or twisted, thats the end of the battery, if the fluid level is below the plates, top-up with distilled water, if there is a stong acid smell and the battery is hot after a run, its your vehicle overcharging or the wrong battery for your vechile, and as a PP said, check all courtesy lights, put your mrs in the boot and close it, if the light stays on, or even the engine compartment! disconecting these lights could help.

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery, and if no faults found so far, could be your starter or alternator at fault,

I am writing this as a qualified truck/auto trans engineer, if you have any doubts with the above tests, please get qualified help.

Cheers, Lickey..

Just some questions;

1] what does a 'strong acid smell', smell like?

2] what is a 'run'?

3] what is the maximum permissible temperature for a battery, considering it is located in the engine bay in close proximity to a hot engine?

4] what test can be done to verify if the battery is being overcharged or not?

5]

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery

If this has to be done for 5 seconds, won't this damage the starter motor?

What do the bubbles from cells indicate?

Is there another way to load test a battery?

1 strong acid smell, bit like a strong toilet cleaner,

2, 20ks would be classed as a run.

3, Battery tempeture, yes, ok always in the hot engine department, "a hot battery" will be acompanied with a strong smell,

4, again, overcharging will produce a hot acid smell, start engine, allow to tick-over, put on headlights, air-con max, hazard lights ect, make mental note of tickover speed on rev-counter, rev engine t0 approx 3000rpm, allow to tick-over again, turn off things 1 at a time, note tick-over as you do this, if the revs rise perhaps 100 rpm that will show you alternator is ok and battery is ok, IE keeping this working for you. This is assuming that your vehicle has electronics controlling it. For older non-electronically controlled vehicles, the RPM could fall. But one needs a very good ear or a tacho to determine this.

It is usually recommended not to engage a starter motor for more than 30 seconds at a time with 1 minute intervals to allow cooling, 5 seconds of a "stuck" starter motor will not harm it if in resonable condition. Any electric motor that endures a "Locked Rotor" condition will in fact suffer some damage, which will hasten its' failure.

Bubbles and smells from the battery suggests worn and buckled plates, time to replace before it lets you down!

PS, air-con uses 10% of engine power, once over 60kmp, try turning it off, adjust controls for outside air, very economical,

Hope this info is useful, Thanks, Lickey.

Whilst all this info may be of help to those who have a reasonable understanding automotive operating principles, the only way to test a battery is as follows;

1] take it to someone who can conduct a proper load test on the battery. A load test will draw about 3 to 4 times the amphour rating of the battery for about 15 to 20 seconds. Whilst the test is being undertaken, the terminal voltage of the battery is monitored. If the voltage does not fall below about 1.6 volts per cell, it's considered to be in reasonable condition. E.g. 1.6 volts multiplied by 6 cells = 9.6 volts. Also, if the battery has a 50 Amphour capacity, the load test should take about 150 to 200 amps from the battery for about 15 to 20 seconds.

2] when the battery is being charged, it is normal to smell an 'acid' smell. This is when water is being converted back into sulphuric acid. To test if the battery is overcharged, buy a hydrometer (very cheap & easy to use). This device will quickly identify if the battery is being overcharged or not. When using it to test a fully charged battery, the SG (Specific Gravity) or RD (Relative Density) should be about 1.25. A higher RD means over charged (more acid). NOTE! The results of this test may vary according to battery temperature. If possible, try to test the battery when it has reached ambient temp (20 to 30 degrees C).

3] assuming a standard 6 cell battery, the terminal voltage of a fully charged battery should not exceed about 2.6 volts per cell or 15.6 volts per battery.

The above info is only for lead-acid, 12 volt batteries.

[lazeeboy]

Maintainence free batteries, yes, ok for a year perhaps, but you can pry the tops of the cells and inspect the inside, once youve got the tops of, if the cells have acid but have like growths on the plates, or the plates are bent or twisted, thats the end of the battery, if the fluid level is below the plates, top-up with distilled water, if there is a stong acid smell and the battery is hot after a run, its your vehicle overcharging or the wrong battery for your vechile, and as a PP said, check all courtesy lights, put your mrs in the boot and close it, if the light stays on, or even the engine compartment! disconecting these lights could help.

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery, and if no faults found so far, could be your starter or alternator at fault,

I am writing this as a qualified truck/auto trans engineer, if you have any doubts with the above tests, please get qualified help.

Cheers, Lickey..

Just some questions;

1] what does a 'strong acid smell', smell like?

2] what is a 'run'?

3] what is the maximum permissible temperature for a battery, considering it is located in the engine bay in close proximity to a hot engine?

4] what test can be done to verify if the battery is being overcharged or not?

5]

Another way to check any battery is take tops off battery, expose cells, put car in a high gear, apply footbrake and try to start car in gear, get somebody to watch battery cells, if one or more cells bubble, then the battery is finished, 5 seconds should be enough of applying load to battery

If this has to be done for 5 seconds, won't this damage the starter motor?

What do the bubbles from cells indicate?

Is there another way to load test a battery?

1 strong acid smell, bit like a strong toilet cleaner,

2, 20ks would be classed as a run.

3, Battery tempeture, yes, ok always in the hot engine department, "a hot battery" will be acompanied with a strong smell,

4, again, overcharging will produce a hot acid smell, start engine, allow to tick-over, put on headlights, air-con max, hazard lights ect, make mental note of tickover speed on rev-counter, rev engine t0 approx 3000rpm, allow to tick-over again, turn off things 1 at a time, note tick-over as you do this, if the revs rise perhaps 100 rpm that will show you alternator is ok and battery is ok, IE keeping this working for you. This is assuming that your vehicle has electronics controlling it. For older non-electronically controlled vehicles, the RPM could fall. But one needs a very good ear or a tacho to determine this.

It is usually recommended not to engage a starter motor for more than 30 seconds at a time with 1 minute intervals to allow cooling, 5 seconds of a "stuck" starter motor will not harm it if in resonable condition. Any electric motor that endures a "Locked Rotor" condition will in fact suffer some damage, which will hasten its' failure.

Bubbles and smells from the battery suggests worn and buckled plates, time to replace before it lets you down!

PS, air-con uses 10% of engine power, once over 60kmp, try turning it off, adjust controls for outside air, very economical,

Hope this info is useful, Thanks, Lickey.

Whilst all this info may be of help to those who have a reasonable understanding automotive operating principles, the only way to test a battery is as follows;

1] take it to someone who can conduct a proper load test on the battery. A load test will draw about 3 to 4 times the amphour rating of the battery for about 15 to 20 seconds. Whilst the test is being undertaken, the terminal voltage of the battery is monitored. If the voltage does not fall below about 1.6 volts per cell, it's considered to be in reasonable condition. E.g. 1.6 volts multiplied by 6 cells = 9.6 volts. Also, if the battery has a 50 Amphour capacity, the load test should take about 150 to 200 amps from the battery for about 15 to 20 seconds.

2] when the battery is being charged, it is normal to smell an 'acid' smell. This is when water is being converted back into sulphuric acid. To test if the battery is overcharged, buy a hydrometer (very cheap & easy to use). This device will quickly identify if the battery is being overcharged or not. When using it to test a fully charged battery, the SG (Specific Gravity) or RD (Relative Density) should be about 1.25. A higher RD means over charged (more acid). NOTE! The results of this test may vary according to battery temperature. If possible, try to test the battery when it has reached ambient temp (20 to 30 degrees C).

3] assuming a standard 6 cell battery, the terminal voltage of a fully charged battery should not exceed about 2.6 volts per cell or 15.6 volts per battery.

The above info is only for lead-acid, 12 volt batteries.

last battery lasted 3 years ,but only drove 21000k ..........

[Lickey]

A heavy discharge test with a 2 pronged asbetos covered metal coil inside can and will cause sparks which can explode a gassing battery,

An alternator will sense the loads imposed on the battery, even if the vehicle is 40 years old or 1 year,

A happy battery will show a voltage of 13.2 to 13.6, anything over and you have a problem.

By all means, go have your battery checked, have your alternator output checked too, and starter motor induction current as well, this way, perhaps you will only have to replace 1 of the 3 things mentioned.

Elkangorito, i dont want my posts on this subject to be misleading, if you think they are, please let me know and i will ask a SM to remove them,

Thankyou, Lickey.

[elkangorito]

Elkangorito, i dont want my posts on this subject to be misleading, if you think they are, please let me know and i will ask a SM to remove them,

If this is your wish then I suggest that you be sure of the correctness of the information before posting.

I'm against censorship in any way therefore I would never ask to have anyones posts removed just because I didn't agree with them. This would be childish behaviour.

[percy2]

Gel batteries are not designed for hot weather at all. Generally, they are designed to operate at between 20 & 25 degrees Celsius. Anything above 25 degrees will greatly reduce the discharge capacity, charge rate & capacity as well as reduce its' life.

I think most batteries operate in engine bays that are over 25C whatever the ambient temperature.

Cheers

[Tony Clifton]

We've seen 3 car batteries in 4 years. I have no idea what they were and how much my wife paid but when I tell her it's not normal for batteries conk out so quickly and that batteries can take 5 years in harsh cold winters, she still insists it's normal here.

I can only see cheap materials as the cause.

[ignis]

We've seen 3 car batteries in 4 years. I have no idea what they were and how much my wife paid but when I tell her it's not normal for batteries conk out so quickly and that batteries can take 5 years in harsh cold winters, she still insists it's normal here.

I can only see cheap materials as the cause.

Needed a new battery after 18 months, car is now 3 years old so expect will need another soon....

898 baht fitted at Honda....... Honda say over 1 year is a +, so 18 months was normal

[elkangorito]

Comments in red.

A heavy discharge test with a 2 pronged asbetos covered metal coil inside can and will cause sparks which can explode a gassing battery. Did you actually see this thing? I mean, it's quite possibly the only one in existence. 'Modern' battery load testers as used for the past 30 years, do not create sparks & thus gassing batteries do not explode.

An alternator will sense the loads imposed on the battery, even if the vehicle is 40 years old or 1 year,

A happy battery will show a voltage of 13.2 to 13.6, anything over and you have a problem. This is not true. A battery in good condition that has recently endured a high discharge, may indicate a terminal 'charge' voltage of anything up to 16 volts. So, if someone who is not mechanically minded somehow measures the terminal voltage of their battery & it is below 13.2V & above 13.6v, you suggest there is a problem. The voltage will definitely be above 13.6v if it is charging to any reasonable degree. I'm glad I don't take my trucks to you for attention.

By all means, go have your battery checked, have your alternator output checked too, and starter motor induction current as well, this way, perhaps you will only have to replace 1 of the 3 things mentioned.

Elkangorito, i dont want my posts on this subject to be misleading, if you think they are, please let me know and i will ask a SM to remove them,

Thankyou, Lickey.

[cheshiremusicman]

Gel batteries are not designed for hot weather at all. Generally, they are designed to operate at between 20 & 25 degrees Celsius. Anything above 25 degrees will greatly reduce the discharge capacity, charge rate & capacity as well as reduce its' life.

I think most batteries operate in engine bays that are over 25C whatever the ambient temperature.

Cheers

Years ago I bought a 'Saab Turbo ( 8 valve APC)' and owned the car from new for 20 years before selling it on - still going strong. The point is that the battery in the car was changed 3 times in the 20 years and if any battery was ever sitting in a very hot enviroment then these baby's were, as they were located right beside the 'Turbo' - with only an asbestos heat shield between them - and that 'turbo' would glow orange; so I leave you to estimate what kind of temp was prevelant. I hate to think what temps the batteries had to contend with - but hey they must have liked it! Have to say that the batteies were big capacity ones - but for the life of me I can't recollect what the amperhour ratings were. As previous contributer has said, it is false economy to buy 'cheap batteries' always buy the best you can lay your hands on.

[Lickey]

A happy battery will show a voltage of 13.2 to 13.6, anything over and you have a problem. This is not true. A battery in good condition that has recently endured a high discharge, may indicate a terminal 'charge' voltage of anything up to 16 volts. So, if someone who is not mechanically minded somehow measures the terminal voltage of their battery & it is below 13.2V & above 13.6v, you suggest there is a problem. The voltage will definitely be above 13.6v if it is charging to any reasonable degree. I'm glad I don't take my trucks to you for attention.

Who said anything about charging????????? I am talking about a battery that hasnt had any charge or dischage for at least an hour,or off the shelf..

Its not in my nature to add bitter coments on a friendy forum, so to keep it friendly, we could carry on this disscusion by PM,

Thankyou, Lickey.

[elkangorito]

A happy battery will show a voltage of 13.2 to 13.6, anything over and you have a problem. This is not true. A battery in good condition that has recently endured a high discharge, may indicate a terminal 'charge' voltage of anything up to 16 volts. So, if someone who is not mechanically minded somehow measures the terminal voltage of their battery & it is below 13.2V & above 13.6v, you suggest there is a problem. The voltage will definitely be above 13.6v if it is charging to any reasonable degree. I'm glad I don't take my trucks to you for attention.

Who said anything about charging????????? I am talking about a battery that hasnt had any charge or dischage for at least an hour,or off the shelf..

Its not in my nature to add bitter coments on a friendy forum, so to keep it friendly, we could carry on this disscusion by PM,

Thankyou, Lickey.

Seems like you have decided in what tone I speak. Where is the bitterness? Ok, so I guessed wrongly about "charging".

In the meantime, I guess I'll continue to be "bitter" & respond.

1] 12 volt lead-acid batteries consist of individual cells, each cell having a fully charged voltage of 2 volts. Consequently, it takes 6 cells to make a 12 volt battery.

2] the normal charge voltage per cell is about 2.25 volts or between 13.5 to 14 volts for a 12 volt battery. It is not advisable to go above this charge voltage for long periods of time (short times are ok, 5 mins or so). So, based on the assumption of a 14 volt long charge, the battery would resume a lower voltage when off charge, due to the internal resistance of the battery, somewhere around 12 to 13 volts I would say.

Conclusion:

A "happy" battery is a:

1] battery with a "no load" terminal voltage of no less than 12 volts (2 volts per cell) & no greater than 15 volts (2.5 volts per cell) & as you say, it must have sat undisturbed for at least an hour.

2] battery thats' cell voltage does not fall below about 1.6 volts under a load test. A "whole" battery tester is used for this test.

3] battery that has a Specific Gravity of 1.25 when fully charged (& not overcharged).

Please note that a "happy" battery is not one of the above but ALL of the above.

Now I'll rush off to anger therapy because obviously this post is just oozing with bitterness.

[JoeInSurin]

A happy battery will show a voltage of 13.2 to 13.6, anything over and you have a problem. This is not true. A battery in good condition that has recently endured a high discharge, may indicate a terminal 'charge' voltage of anything up to 16 volts. So, if someone who is not mechanically minded somehow measures the terminal voltage of their battery & it is below 13.2V & above 13.6v, you suggest there is a problem. The voltage will definitely be above 13.6v if it is charging to any reasonable degree. I'm glad I don't take my trucks to you for attention.

Who said anything about charging????????? I am talking about a battery that hasnt had any charge or dischage for at least an hour,or off the shelf..

Its not in my nature to add bitter coments on a friendy forum, so to keep it friendly, we could carry on this disscusion by PM,

Thankyou, Lickey.

Seems like you have decided in what tone I speak. Where is the bitterness? Ok, so I guessed wrongly about "charging".

In the meantime, I guess I'll continue to be "bitter" & respond.

1] 12 volt lead-acid batteries consist of individual cells, each cell having a fully charged voltage of 2 volts. Consequently, it takes 6 cells to make a 12 volt battery.

2] the normal charge voltage per cell is about 2.25 volts or between 13.5 to 14 volts for a 12 volt battery. It is not advisable to go above this charge voltage for long periods of time (short times are ok, 5 mins or so). So, based on the assumption of a 14 volt long charge, the battery would resume a lower voltage when off charge, due to the internal resistance of the battery, somewhere around 12 to 13 volts I would say.

This is not true. If you put a volt meter on you battery and rev it above idle you will see that a standard car charging system keeps the battery at around 14.5 volts for the entire time the car is running. Any less voltage (unless at idle) indicates a problem with the charging system. A fully charged battery that has been sitting for and hour or so will have an approx. voltage of 12 - 13 volts.

Conclusion:

A "happy" battery is a:

1] battery with a "no load" terminal voltage of no less than 12 volts (2 volts per cell) & no greater than 15 volts (2.5 volts per cell) & as you say, it must have sat undisturbed for at least an hour.

2] battery thats' cell voltage does not fall below about 1.6 volts under a load test. A "whole" battery tester is used for this test.

3] battery that has a Specific Gravity of 1.25 when fully charged (& not overcharged).

Please note that a "happy" battery is not one of the above but ALL of the above.

Now I'll rush off to anger therapy because obviously this post is just oozing with bitterness.

The load test Lickey is talking about using the starter workes quite well if a load tester is unavailable. It may not be the best thing for the starter but it works.

The load tester Elkangorito is talking about is the reccommended test method and will not explode the battery if done correctly.

Whatever you do never cause sparks or smoke around a battery. I have seen a few explode and it is quite an explosion.

[elkangorito]

2] the normal charge voltage per cell is about 2.25 volts or between 13.5 to 14 volts for a 12 volt battery. It is not advisable to go above this charge voltage for long periods of time (short times are ok, 5 mins or so). So, based on the assumption of a 14 volt long charge, the battery would resume a lower voltage when off charge, due to the internal resistance of the battery, somewhere around 12 to 13 volts I would say.

This is not true. If you put a volt meter on you battery and rev it above idle you will see that a standard car charging system keeps the battery at around 14.5 volts for the entire time the car is running. Any less voltage (unless at idle) indicates a problem with the charging system. A fully charged battery that has been sitting for and hour or so will have an approx. voltage of 12 - 13 volts.

Allow me to clarify my comment.

In my comment, I am talking about a battery, which is not installed in a car. The reason why a voltmeter may show 14.5 volts is because of the batteries internal resistance, which increases with age. Also, the automotive charging system is not an accurate thing. Needless to say that a 14.5 volt battery terminal voltage (a battery in a car) is ok, assuming that the battery is mostly fully charged.

I do believe that lickeys battery testing method, which uses the starter motor, does not involve the use of a load tester. I think that he was talking about 2 seperate things. The "stalled" starter motor method will damage the starter motor.

[JoeInSurin]

2] the normal charge voltage per cell is about 2.25 volts or between 13.5 to 14 volts for a 12 volt battery. It is not advisable to go above this charge voltage for long periods of time (short times are ok, 5 mins or so). So, based on the assumption of a 14 volt long charge, the battery would resume a lower voltage when off charge, due to the internal resistance of the battery, somewhere around 12 to 13 volts I would say.

This is not true. If you put a volt meter on you battery and rev it above idle you will see that a standard car charging system keeps the battery at around 14.5 volts for the entire time the car is running. Any less voltage (unless at idle) indicates a problem with the charging system. A fully charged battery that has been sitting for and hour or so will have an approx. voltage of 12 - 13 volts.

Allow me to clarify my comment.

In my comment, I am talking about a battery, which is not installed in a car. The reason why a voltmeter may show 14.5 volts is because of the batteries internal resistance, which increases with age. Also, the automotive charging system is not an accurate thing. Needless to say that a 14.5 volt battery terminal voltage (a battery in a car) is ok, assuming that the battery is mostly fully charged.

I do believe that lickeys battery testing method, which uses the starter motor, does not involve the use of a load tester. I think that he was talking about 2 seperate things. The "stalled" starter motor method will damage the starter motor.

Lickeys test is using the starter that can't turn free to put the load on the battery. The same effect as using a load tester.

[lazeeboy]

I bought a new Civic in 2003 and at 34,000 km had to get a new battery for B1500. I now have 70,000 km on it. Should I replace the battery or wait till it konks out?

wait till it konks out ,you're never farther than a couple of k from a garage...........