Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

 

A P60 is an end of year statement from the UK.

 

 

OK. And where in box B of the Thai tax form is the P60 statement number entered? There is no place for it in that Thai tax form exemption table best that I can read.

 

[oldcpu]

58 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

I have no assessable income due to DTA.  I won't be filing or "declaring" my non-assessable income because it's not required according to TRD.  

 

DTA does help for some countries, but not for others. Please check your specific DTA and don't assume non-assessable without first checking your DTA. My hope is that you checked.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, oldcpu said:

 

OK. And where in box B of the Thai tax form is the P60 statement number entered? There is no place for it in that Thai tax form exemption table best that I can read.

 

 

Hand over a copy / attach a copy to your reporting paperwork ?
 

We all know how Thai Government Department love their copies.

[Yumthai]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

How can you combat tax avoidance / evasion if people are not reporting their remitted income ?

Why and how would Thailand combat tax avoidance which is perfectly legal thanks to rules they made on purpose?

 

[oldcpu]

4 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Hand over a copy / attach a copy to your reporting paperwork ?
 

We all know how Thai Government Department love their copies.

 

.. and .?? ... I can not find any location in the exemptions section of the Thai Tax form to add such as an exemption.

 

The section/box A entry must match that of the detailed Box B. Box B has no place where it can be entered.

 

Have you looked at the 2023 tax forms? ( 2024 is not out in English language yet).

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Why and how would Thailand combat tax avoidance which is perfectly legal thanks to rules they made on purpose?

 

Every government tries to tighten rules to minimise the opportunity for avoidance. Whilst it is not illegal to avoid tax, it is not desirable from a tax collection perspective.

[Yumthai]

Just now, chiang mai said:

Every government tries to tighten rules to minimise the opportunity for avoidance. Whilst it is not illegal to avoid tax, it is not desirable from a tax collection perspective.

Governments made the rules!

[The Cyclist]

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Hand over a copy / attach a copy to your reporting paperwork ?
 

We all know how Thai Government Department love their copies.

 

My bad, I should have said tax evasion and ensure tax compliance.

 

Quote

The Common Reporting Standard (CRS) is an internationally agreed standard for the automatic exchange of financial account information between jurisdictions for tax purposes, to better combat tax evasion and ensure tax compliance.

 

So I will ask you the same question. How can Thailand hold up its part in CRS without checking peoples remittances into Thailand ?

[anrcaccount]

5 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

5 hours ago, JimGant said:

But, hey, knock yourself out. You seem to like the quest you're onto. By the way, the CRS gurus could care less about remittances, just as the FATCA gurus could care less. What your worldwide financial positions are, and their related annual incomes -- is what's of concern. How monies were remitted to those financial accounts has no relevance.

 

No its not. It's money that moves across CRS borders that is of concern. The money I earn in the UK,  pay tax on in the UK and stays in the UK is of no concern to CRS.

 

Jim Gant has tried to educate you on this. But, you consistently misunderstand/misinterpret the CRS regulations and their impact. "Transferring/remitting funds internationally" or moving money across borders, isn't relevant to the CRS data sharing.

 

You're inventing a phantom link between the CRS regulations,  remittances, and Thai taxation, that simply does not exist. 

 

By the way, whatever your aggregate UK A/C balances are (unless they are excluded , read the source below for definition) , and whatever certain transactions as per below, will be reported to Thailand via the CRS.  

 

CRS simply requires certain banks/financial institutions to share/report aggregate ( sum of multiple accounts, not individual) account balances, ONCE A YEAR, and does not include individual transactions, excepting the cases of certain income as specified in table 5 (see below).

 

There is no way this information shared includes individual "remittances". It's got nothing to with 'declarable income'. 

 

CRS Source: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf

 

Table 4 (page 60) it defines exactly what financial information is shared. 

 

Also, FYI, based on this link, Thailand has not yet actually IMPLEMENTED what they are required to, based on the CRS regulations.

 

Source: 

 

https://web-archive.oecd.org/tax/automatic-exchange/crs-implementation-and-assistance/crs-by-jurisdiction/index.htm 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Governments made the rules!

And accountants find ways around them so governments fill loopholes and kill off work arounds. it's the way the game is played.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

How do you carry out the above, without people, at the very least, Reporting the income that they remit into Thailand ?

How's that going to identify tax evasion? The money I remit to Thailand has already gone through the tax assessment process in my home country -- no evasion here. Then, if such money is remitted to Thailand, some, maybe none, is subject to Thai taxation, per DTA and/or Por 162. This, per self assessment, will be included on a tax return, if required. But certainly not all remitted income need reporting, since most (all?) will be non taxable per DTA/Por 162.

 

Anyway, we get back to the key observation: FATCA and CRS are not in the business of identifying cash flows, but in identifying people with foreign accounts and what those accounts contain, and the income those accounts generate. Then, when this information is reported to home country, has subject income been subjected to required taxation?

[NoDisplayName]

On 1/6/2025 at 4:52 PM, The Cyclist said:

 

Sure. That is what the told me last February, exept only 1 source of income was exempt, Gov Pension, my private pension should ( in theory anyway ) have been taxable.

 

At the small local office.

 

 

Well, that is what we all ( including me ) believed. Rocks up today ( Only Gov Pension ) and was told otherwise, at the big Office.

 

Here is her pencilled scribbles to help me fill it

 

 

 

You will notice that she has applied 

 

100,000 Baht deduction for a Pension

 

60,000 Baht deduction for me

 

And some mental withholding tax thing, which by that stage I had lost all interest, so it could be anything.

 

Total tax payable 0

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but I now see this is in English.  Should be easy enough to follow if'n I enlarge the photo.

 

TRD lady has incorrectly included all your NON assessable pension in income, but there is NO way on the form, or in the regulations, to exempt it.

 

Line 12 is your tax due = 26,500.

She made up a number that she stuck on Line 13 = 26,500.

   480 * 43.90 * 12 = 252,864 --> 26,500

Line 13 is "withheld tax", yet no taxes were withheld.

Line 14  is total tax = 0  and see note

  (Attached evidence for 8, 10 and 13.  total ___ copy/copies)

 

That doesn't seem right, and probably wouldn't pass confirmation checks using online filing.  Your return would be kicked out for processing at the head office, and you'd receive a letter requesting proof of taxes withheld.  Without providing that, you'd be billed 26,500 baht.

 

You, and only you, could use this particular method at this, and only this, office, filing with this, and only this, official.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

They dont need to if they make every foreign tax resident report their income.

 

They then do the audit there and then, with you providing the answers there and then.

How do you do that when you electronically file?

[Yumthai]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

How can Thailand hold up its part in CRS without checking peoples remittances into Thailand ?

Thailand will just have to follow CRS rules that apply to financial institutions not individuals.

They will gather and send CRS reporting containing whatever data sent by Thai FIs that nobody else could check other than Thailand.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

14 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

In regards to that, if 2024 tax form is not to be changed from 2023, it's not straightforward how that remitted money is to be entered in a tax form.

 

So we then get  this forum views of some who claim that clearly assessable income, that is tax exempt, should then be called non assessable.  And since no longer called assessable  ( in their view) it should not be reported. 

 

Frankly,  given the Thai tax forms limitations,  I don't know who is right. 

 

Remittances may contain only non-assessable income or savings, in which case there is no place to declare these remittances on the tax forms we have seen so far. Think US Social Security benefits, savings from before 1 January 2024, etc. No need to declare them on Thai tax forms so far.

 

Remittances may consist of only assessable income, in which case the entire amount of the remittance needs to be declared.

 

Remittances may consist of both assessable income and non-assessable items. In this case, it will be up to the individual to declare the assessable portion of the remittance. It is up to the individual to determine what is assessable and what is non-assessable. In order to be able to prove which portion of the remittance is assessable and which is non-assessable, the individual will need to keep records that would stand up to scrutiny if the RD requested an audit.  

 

Unless the forms are changed and/or the RD formally gives issues instructions otherwise, there is currently no way to declare non-assessable income on Thai tax forms. In my opinion, anyone suggesting otherwise is mistaken, including individual RD employees.

[The Cyclist]

11 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

Jim Gant has tried to educate you on this. But, you consistently misunderstand/misinterpret the CRS regulations and their impact. "Transferring/remitting funds internationally" or moving money across borders, isn't relevant to the CRS data sharing.

 

Bit you can bet your last dollar that it is relevant to rax evasion / Tax compliance.

 

And that is what I am highlighting, not data sharing

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, JimGant said:

to identify tax evasion? The money I remit to Thailand has already gone through the tax assessment process in my home country -- no evasion here.

 

And how does Thailand know that ?
 

It has to be a loop from the source Country - Remitted Country - Back to source Country.

 

Which can be done if it is Direct deposited to Thailand via a pension provider or similar. Cannot be done through Wise and other internet transfer platforms

[oldcpu]

3 minutes ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

Unless the forms are changed and/or the RD formally gives issues instructions otherwise, there is currently no way to declare non-assessable income on Thai tax forms. In my opinion, anyone suggesting otherwise is mistaken, including individual RD employees.

 

I even go a step further and note there is no place on the forms to list some specific cases of tax exempt clearly assessable income that many expats receive.

 

Ergo that does support the assessment of those who propose not to include such tax exempt accessible income in the tax return submission. 

 

Is that a correct approach? 

 

I don't know. 

[The Cyclist]

9 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Thailand will just have to follow CRS rules that apply to financial institutions not individuals.

They will gather and send CRS reporting containing whatever data sent by Thai FIs that nobody else could check other than Thailand.

 

Do individuals not partake in tax evasion ?

 

https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/uk-tax-evasion-statistics/

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 minute ago, oldcpu said:

 

I even go a step further and note there is no place on the forms to list some specific cases of tax exempt clearly assessable income that many expats receive.

 

Ergo that does support the assessment of those who propose not to include such tax exempt accessible income in the tax return submission. 

 

Is that a correct approach? 

 

I don't know. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "tax exempt clearly assessable income". 

 

If you mean income that is tax exempt in the individual's home country, that home country tax exemption may have no bearing on whether the remittances are tax exempt under Thai tax laws. Or did you mean something else?

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, JimGant said:

How do you do that when you electronically file?

 

It would appear that too many who frequent these tax threads actually file anything, so there 1st port of call will be hitting a tax office to get a TIN and file at the same time.

 

Probably beyond you, to understand that they could start demanding additional documentation from people who file electronically, or invite you down to the office for an interview.

[The Cyclist]

23 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Not to beat a dead horse, but I now see this is in English.  Should be easy enough to follow if'n I enlarge the photo.

 

TRD lady has incorrectly included all your NON assessable pension in income, but there is NO way on the form, or in the regulations, to exempt it.

 

Go to the post I made about 0800 Tuesday morning for a full explanation of the figures and how they ended up in the boxes.

 

Because I am not typing it out again, but you have read it wrong.

[Yumthai]

3 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Do individuals not partake in tax evasion ?

 

https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/uk-tax-evasion-statistics/

As you've already been told, CRS reporting yearly provide to each jurisdiction you are tax resident all declared offshore accounts including year-end balances + interests/dividends received.

 

With these little information it's up to your tax jurisdiction(s) to trigger or not a tax audit.

[topt]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

 

It would appear that too many who frequent these tax threads actually file anything, so there 1st port of call will be hitting a tax office to get a TIN and file at the same time.

 

Probably beyond you, to understand that they could start demanding additional documentation from people who file electronically, or invite you down to the office for an interview.

They could but as an "honour" system don't you think it is unlikely unless they have a specific reason to ask?

 

This I would suggest is more likely to happen if you start talking about non assessable income at the time of filing rather than just staying stumm - because of course you have the proof anyway if you are called in for "an audit".......

 

We are back to complete speculation and round and round the merry go round goes - yet again........

 

[The Cyclist]

8 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

As you've already been told, CRS reporting yearly provide to each jurisdiction you are tax resident all declared offshore accounts including year-end balances + interests/dividends received.

 

How does that combat tax evasion and ensure tax compliance when people are transferring money via online platforms ?
 

Which is the core aim of CRS.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, topt said:

They could but as an "honour" system don't you think it is unlikely unless they have a specific reason to ask?

 

The internal tax system is an honour system.

 

Which is totally different to an International agreement on tax evasion / tax compliance.

 

And that is the part that people have difficulty in grasping.

[Yumthai]

11 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Probably beyond you, to understand that they could start demanding additional documentation from people who file electronically, or invite you down to the office for an interview.

Sure they can ask tons of foreign docs, and we can provide genuine or not, that they are eventually unable to check.

 

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

How does that combat tax evasion and ensure tax compliance when people are transferring money via online platforms ?
 

Which is the corebaim of CRS.

This question you may ask to OECD.

CRS is just a tool among others that cannot in itself combat exhaustively tax evasion.

[The Cyclist]

5 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

This question you may ask to OECD.

 

No, it is a question to be asked of Thailand, as they have signed up to CRS and have to ensure that those foreigners that are tax residents of Thailand , from CRS Countries are not engaging in tax evasion and are tax compliant.

[JimGant]

17 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

And how does Thailand know that ?
 

It has to be a loop from the source Country - Remitted Country - Back to source Country.

 

Which can be done if it is Direct deposited to Thailand via a pension provider or similar. Cannot be done through Wise and other internet platforms

You're starting to get weird. You're saying, short of a direct deposit of a DTA exempt income amount, that self assessment of a Wise deposit won't work, and that you have to go for a face-to-face at your local TRD office for verification? Maybe in the remote chance of an audit -- but not up front with an ordinary tax filing with, of course, self assessment.

 

You've said this before in many posts, that you need to have your local TRD agent verify all your assumptions about assessable vs non assessable income. This is just nonsense. Then, when I mention electronic filing, pointing out that TRD will be out of the loop for any verification -- I get this:

 

Quote

Probably beyond you, to understand that they could start demanding additional documentation from people who file electronically, or invite you down to the office for an interview.

 

Don't your really understand that even Thai TRD is trying to become more efficient, and that agents will only become involved in an audit situation? I guess it will be kinda sad that you will no longer to be able to drop in to your local TRD to get reassurance on your tax filings.

[anrcaccount]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

The internal tax system is an honour system.

 

Which is totally different to an International agreement on tax evasion / tax compliance.

 

And that is the part that people have difficulty in grasping.

 

Despite being provided clear information to educate you, you are have difficulty in grasping:

 

• The CRS is not an agreement on tax evasion / compliance. Its purpose is to combat tax evasion, sure, but if/how it does that is unclear.

 

• What it is, is a data sharing agreement, which according to the best sources we have, Thailand has not yet even implemented.