Onshore Versus Offshore

[onethailand]

Agreed, but it is odd, the 500,000 has been around for years, however, guess I'll find the link in Thai and print it out just in case.

To be dead honest, I never even knew you could take out 500K to neighboring countries. But then again I've never had the need, and for the most part even the wherewithal to carry that kind of cash on me Most I ever did was 120K to Malaysia once, to gamble at Genting, and I never even thought about the restrictions. Every other time I've been way under whatever limitation existed at the time.

[DegenFarang]

Awesome. Anybody know of a place in these countries where you can exchange baht at the offshore rate?

Oh, I'd say there are thousands of places in Malaysia that would be happy to take your baht...

Sorry for the likely redundant question, but are you saying that they would be happy to pay the offshore rate for the baht?

So for instance, tomorrow me and my girlfriend could fly to KL with 1,000,000 total baht, cash that baht into dollars and make an instant 50-100,000 baht? While breaking no laws whatsoever?

[endure]

Awesome. Anybody know of a place in these countries where you can exchange baht at the offshore rate?

Oh, I'd say there are thousands of places in Malaysia that would be happy to take your baht...

Sorry for the likely redundant question, but are you saying that they would be happy to pay the offshore rate for the baht?

So for instance, tomorrow me and my girlfriend could fly to KL with 1,000,000 total baht, cash that baht into dollars and make an instant 50-100,000 baht? While breaking no laws whatsoever?

You'd be breaking the law by taking 1M baht out. The limits are 500,000bt to countries bordering Thailand and 50,000bt to all others.

[onethailand]

Sorry for the likely redundant question, but are you saying that they would be happy to pay the offshore rate for the baht?

So for instance, tomorrow me and my girlfriend could fly to KL with 1,000,000 total baht, cash that baht into dollars and make an instant 50-100,000 baht? While breaking no laws whatsoever?

Well, I would have thought ringgit was better but you can probably do the math yourself by checking a Malaysian bank like Maybank for an approximate rate - then when you get to KL, go change the money at a local money changer whose rates are likely to be a bit better (but check a few of them first). Don't know how much you'd be making but I think 100K is highly unlikely.

Having not read the entire document I couldn't tell you whether or not you were breaking any laws, but on the surface of things I can't see any problem.

You'd be breaking the law by taking 1M baht out. The limits are 500,000bt to countries bordering Thailand and 50,000bt to all others.

DegenFarang said him *and* his girlfriend

add ->

Maybank's rate for buying baht today is 10.05 ringgit per 100 baht. For a million baht, that would give you 100,500 ringgit.

Bangkok Bank's rate for buying ringgit today is 9.03 baht per ringgit. That would give you 907,515 baht - a huge loss.

And come to think of it, if you were to buy dollars with baht, you'd lose on the exchange twice in Malaysia just to start with - first convert to ringgit, then to dollars, I don't think anyone will do a baht-dollar conversion there.

As I recall, the ringgit is tied to a basket of currencies, not the US dollar as it was in the past (used to be 3.80 until 2005). It usually stays pretty much on the same line as the baht so in hindsight I should've guessed that this exchange would not be so good.

The Singapore Dollar is also tied to a basket of currencies, but I suspect the US dollar is more heavily weighted, which probably explains why there's some potential for profit.

Edited August 10, 2007 by onethailand

[Carmine6]

Awesome. Anybody know of a place in these countries where you can exchange baht at the offshore rate?

Oh, I'd say there are thousands of places in Malaysia that would be happy to take your baht...

Sorry for the likely redundant question, but are you saying that they would be happy to pay the offshore rate for the baht?

So for instance, tomorrow me and my girlfriend could fly to KL with 1,000,000 total baht, cash that baht into dollars and make an instant 50-100,000 baht? While breaking no laws whatsoever?

You'd be breaking the law by taking 1M baht out. The limits are 500,000bt to countries bordering Thailand and 50,000bt to all others.

Think he'd be counting on 500,000 baht allownce for him and 500,000 baht for his girlfriend.

Do they really give something closer to the offshore rate in neighboring countries? or do travel costs eat up all the profit?

[Maestro]

... are you saying that they would be happy to pay the offshore rate for the baht?

The offshore rate for cash, which is probably lower than the rate you see on xe.com, etc.

--

Maestro

[Moe]

Actually there are local folks who have been doing the same thing, only on a much larger scale between the LOS and Singapore since this onshore/offshore difference cropped up. Hand carry between Singapore and Bangkok (and often Phuket and Hat Yai) and pocket the difference. The travel costs are indeed minor. What they do is utilize friends and families to make it a proper smurfing operation with no one individual making too many noticeable trips with too much cash. $10-15k USD per trip is still a reasonable amount to take for shopping purchases and is still below the minimum amount "allowed" (which is moot since no one is declaring anyway) so the authorities so far haven't done anything about it.... although I do hear they are going to start tightening that loophole. The margin -so I hear- is about 30-40k Baht per trip for the small operations with higher margins for those using bulk currency smuggling methods.

Although, yes, if you ask on this forum, most folks will say it 'can't be done.'

While I see how profit can be made doing this, I must be missing something as I fail to see how the margin can be as high as 30-40k on amounts of $10-15k USD even with using the best money changers in both countries.

[think_too_mut]

Actually there are local folks who have been doing the same thing, only on a much larger scale between the LOS and Singapore since this onshore/offshore difference cropped up. Hand carry between Singapore and Bangkok (and often Phuket and Hat Yai) and pocket the difference. The travel costs are indeed minor. What they do is utilize friends and families to make it a proper smurfing operation with no one individual making too many noticeable trips with too much cash. $10-15k USD per trip is still a reasonable amount to take for shopping purchases and is still below the minimum amount "allowed" (which is moot since no one is declaring anyway) so the authorities so far haven't done anything about it.... although I do hear they are going to start tightening that loophole. The margin -so I hear- is about 30-40k Baht per trip for the small operations with higher margins for those using bulk currency smuggling methods.

Although, yes, if you ask on this forum, most folks will say it 'can't be done.'

While I see how profit can be made doing this, I must be missing something as I fail to see how the margin can be as high as 30-40k on amounts of $10-15k USD even with using the best money changers in both countries.

I posted (page 1 of this tread) my experience from Thursday (Aug 9th) and it was a reasonable gain, about 2800US$ exchanged:

"

Just yesterday, I changed 330,000 JPY into THB. Cash in hand, SCB in Bangkok.

Got 928,000THB.

Oanda.com shows I should have gotten 86,000THB.

Before coming back to Thai, I checked what I would get if I sent the money from my JP Citibank account into THB account in BKK. It was 75,000B.

What a difference: 17,000B. That's offsore/onshore diff.

"

Edited August 11, 2007 by think_too_mut

[A_Traveller]

Maybe the post above needs some numerical editing?

Regards

/edit typo//

Edited August 11, 2007 by A_Traveller

[think_too_mut]

Maybe the post above needs some numerical editing?

Regards

/edit typo//

With the rate taken from Oanda.com: it was 7000B difference on about 2800US$ changed into THB.

Using an analogy from what arrived 8 days ago into Thai account I was expecting to get 75K baht, not 92K baht.

What other editing is needed?

[Heng]

Actually there are local folks who have been doing the same thing, only on a much larger scale between the LOS and Singapore since this onshore/offshore difference cropped up. Hand carry between Singapore and Bangkok (and often Phuket and Hat Yai) and pocket the difference. The travel costs are indeed minor. What they do is utilize friends and families to make it a proper smurfing operation with no one individual making too many noticeable trips with too much cash. $10-15k USD per trip is still a reasonable amount to take for shopping purchases and is still below the minimum amount "allowed" (which is moot since no one is declaring anyway) so the authorities so far haven't done anything about it.... although I do hear they are going to start tightening that loophole. The margin -so I hear- is about 30-40k Baht per trip for the small operations with higher margins for those using bulk currency smuggling methods.

Although, yes, if you ask on this forum, most folks will say it 'can't be done.'

While I see how profit can be made doing this, I must be missing something as I fail to see how the margin can be as high as 30-40k on amounts of $10-15k USD even with using the best money changers in both countries.

I'd be interested to know the rates they are getting as well, onshore/offshore.

[A_Traveller]

Maybe the post above needs some numerical editing?

Regards

/edit typo//

With the rate taken from Oanda.com: it was 7000B difference on about 2800US$ changed into THB.

Using an analogy from what arrived 8 days ago into Thai account I was expecting to get 75K baht, not 92K baht.

What other editing is needed?

330,000 JPY = 928,000THB?

Regards

[think_too_mut]

Maybe the post above needs some numerical editing?

Regards

/edit typo//

With the rate taken from Oanda.com: it was 7000B difference on about 2800US$ changed into THB.

Using an analogy from what arrived 8 days ago into Thai account I was expecting to get 75K baht, not 92K baht.

What other editing is needed?

330,000 JPY = 928,000THB?

Regards

I have the receipt in front of me. The rate was, on the ground in BKK, 0.2796000.

It actually says 92,268.00.

My mistake, I should have checked it before posting - but no much difference.

[A_Traveller]

Maybe the post above needs some numerical editing?

Regards

/edit typo//

With the rate taken from Oanda.com: it was 7000B difference on about 2800US$ changed into THB.

Using an analogy from what arrived 8 days ago into Thai account I was expecting to get 75K baht, not 92K baht.

What other editing is needed?

330,000 JPY = 928,000THB?

Regards

I have the receipt in front of me. The rate was, on the ground in BKK, 0.2796000.

It actually says 92,268.00.

My mistake, I should have checked it before posting - but no much difference.

nine hundred and twenty eight thousand baht as opposed to ninety two thousand eight hundred is 'no much difference'

Regards

[think_too_mut]

Maybe the post above needs some numerical editing?

Regards

/edit typo//

With the rate taken from Oanda.com: it was 7000B difference on about 2800US$ changed into THB.

Using an analogy from what arrived 8 days ago into Thai account I was expecting to get 75K baht, not 92K baht.

What other editing is needed?

330,000 JPY = 928,000THB?

Regards

I have the receipt in front of me. The rate was, on the ground in BKK, 0.2796000.

It actually says 92,268.00.

My mistake, I should have checked it before posting - but no much difference.

nine hundred and twenty eight thousand baht as opposed to ninety two thousand eight hundred is 'no much difference'

Regards

Distracted with my baby, I have made that mistake.

Sorry.

Back to the rates, it was at least 7000B diff . That thing should have pointed where the rates were at.

Edit: the clerk gave me 9,280B at first try. Less than 10K. Only this?

Then, a scramble, bank branch manager involved, the mistake was so big that it could only be chalked as unintentional.

Edited August 11, 2007 by think_too_mut