Picture courtesy of Raffi Berg | via BBC

 

A new bill proposing the conscription of ultra-Orthodox Jews into the army threatens to divide the nation, putting Israel's government on the verge of a crisis. With public opinion shifting after two years of conflict, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu faces one of the most explosive political challenges of his tenure. Lawmakers are debating the controversial draft bill meant to end long-standing exemptions for ultra-Orthodox men in religious study, a practice ruled illegal almost two decades ago by Israel's High Court.

 

Last year, lawmakers formally discontinued the current system of exemptions that allowed ultra-Orthodox men to avoid military service, which led to increased tensions on the streets. Approximately 24,000 draft notices were issued last year, but only around 1,200 ultra-Orthodox men reported for duty. Recent protests, marked by confrontations with authorities and a "Black Alert" system for swift community mobilisation, highlight the deepening divide.

 

Public support for extending conscription is on the rise, with opinion polls showing that 85% of non-Haredi Jews back sanctions for those refusing draft orders. The debate over the proposed law has provoked strong reactions, including vast protests in Jerusalem and demonstrations against some Haredi politicians. Critics of the exemptions argue that serving in the military should be a national duty, regardless of religious beliefs.

 

The ultra-Orthodox community's resistance to the draft is based on the belief that religious study protects the nation, equal in importance to military capabilities. Rabbi Tzemach Mazuz highlights this perspective, asserting that Torah study is as crucial as combat service. However, as Israel's ultra-Orthodox population grows—now making up 14% of the country—pressure mounts from within and outside the community for reform.

 

Looking forward, the draft bill is a pivotal moment for Netanyahu's government. While ultra-Orthodox parties are essential allies in his coalition, past efforts to enact similar legislation have ended in governmental collapse. The bill currently retains many exemptions and faces opposition even from within Netanyahu's camp, potentially endangering its passage ahead of next year's elections. The situation underscores the ongoing debate over Israel's identity and the balance between religious duties and national service, reported the BBC.

 

 

Key Takeaways:

 

• Israel's government is divided over a bill to conscript ultra-Orthodox men.
• Opposition comes from both ultra-Orthodox communities and political factions.
• The bill's future could heavily influence Israel's political landscape.

 

  Adapted by ASEAN Now from BBC 2025-12-04

 

 

 

 

"Extending conscription"?!? Are Israelis expecting forever wars?

 

"Thou shalt not kill" is the First Commandment on the Torah. But the observant don't care about the details.

On 12/4/2025 at 2:39 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

"Extending conscription"?!? Are Israelis expecting forever wars?

 

"Thou shalt not kill" is the First Commandment on the Torah. But the observant don't care about the details.

I think the full original text of commandment was "Thou shalt not kill another neighbor (aka Jew). God loved ordering 'the chosen people' to go out and do genocide and/or enslavement on those living on others land, as god promised their state would be  from "Baghdad to the sea" (larger than one Muslims claim & reason given for current genocides)

Screw the ultras: get rid of those silly fashions and go out and kill for your country just like any other patriotic Israeli would do. No more free rides, none of this "I must study" BS

On 12/4/2025 at 2:39 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

"Extending conscription"?!? Are Israelis expecting forever wars?

 

"Thou shalt not kill" is the First Commandment on the Torah. But the observant don't care about the details.

 

    The actual words are "Do not murder" , so killing in wars is allowed 

They could have avoided the showdown by allowing alternative service but the Haredi have refused everything, preferring to live on the dole and "study". The problem is that they never graduate and move on.

Genocidal regimes always destroy themselves from within sooner or later.

We may be seeing the beginning of that now.

On 12/4/2025 at 2:39 PM, unblocktheplanet said:

"Extending conscription"?!? Are Israelis expecting forever wars?

 

"Thou shalt not kill" is the First Commandment on the Torah. But the observant don't care about the details.

If they are conscripted. They will either forget that Amendment. Or they will be used as fodder on the front lines. 

1 hour ago, Emdog said:

I think the full original text of commandment was "Thou shalt not kill another neighbor (aka Jew). God loved ordering 'the chosen people' to go out and do genocide and/or enslavement on those living on others land, as god promised their state would be  from "Baghdad to the sea" (larger than one Muslims claim & reason given for current genocides)

Screw the ultras: get rid of those silly fashions and go out and kill for your country just like any other patriotic Israeli would do. No more free rides, none of this "I must study" BS

 

You think or is it  an opportunity to get in a bit of jew bashing?  I attended a Christian school and we had Scripture and bible studies and I remember this passage well. The passage in Hebrew does not say anything close to Thou shalt not kill another neighbor (aka Jew).  That is your invention and it is a vile and disgusting falsehood.  It states YOU SHALL NOT MURDER

The Jewish  teaching on this is repeated multiple times throughout their Old Testament. The New testament  refers to those teachings and quotes them. For example,  Matthew 5:21-22 You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not murder’ and ‘Anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’  even in Romans which was not particularly jewish friendly, the concept of not murdering  was repeated: Romans 13:9 “Do not murder,”    James 2:11 also refers to the Jewish laws  where it emphasizes Do not murder If you commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 

 

Gaza attacked Israel on October 7 and the Gazans murdered 1200 non combatants. Gaza took non combatants hostage. The Gazans who have since died have died in a war that the Gazans started. It could have ended very quickly had the Gazans agreed to cease the hostilities and release the hostages. the Gazans chose not to do that and instead continued  with their war.

 

There is no genocide in Gaza. Repeating a falsehood does not change the reality.  The deaths cited and presented by western media have relied on data provided by Hamas. Those numbers have since been disproven. The Gaza population is stable, and is not shrinking.

 

 

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

Genocidal regimes always destroy themselves from within sooner or later.

We may be seeing the beginning of that now.

 

   Dream  on .

Desperation when the only hope is that the opposing Army self destructs .

1 hour ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

Genocidal regimes always destroy themselves from within sooner or later.

We may be seeing the beginning of that now.

 

Hamas is still sending its death squads to kill and terrorize  Gazans. Death is a way of life and part of the Gazan culture.

Israel is a functioning  multi party democracy.  It is defending itself from a people who revel in death and destruction. They are fighting death zombies.

This level of exceptionalism is tantamount to declaring "we are the chosen people" and therefore we don't have to serve the nation in the military. It's a level of arrogance and entitlement that has no place in modern Israel and the orthodox and Ultra Orthodox should be denied right that is not afforded to the average citizen they are nothing special on any level whatsoever. 

Those religious fanatics should not be exempt from national service. Some time on the front line may knock some sense into them. 

couple of observations:

On 12/4/2025 at 5:01 AM, webfact said:

some Haredi politicians

if UltraOrtodoxians are able to serve in Politics, then they should be equally able to serve in the Military, no?

On 12/4/2025 at 5:01 AM, webfact said:

Torah study is as crucial as combat service

You all have been studying the Torah since 2,500 years and you haven't figured it out yet? You should be finished by now...

Israel is one of only a few countries where military service is compulsory for many able-bodied female citizens. 

So what about ultra orthodox women ?

4 hours ago, DaddyWarbucks said:

Genocidal regimes always destroy themselves from within sooner or later.

We may be seeing the beginning of that now.

Ridiculous.

On 12/4/2025 at 5:01 AM, webfact said:

Picture courtesy of Raffi Berg | via BBC

 

A new bill proposing the conscription of ultra-Orthodox Jews into the army threatens to divide the nation, putting Israel's government on the verge of a crisis. With public opinion shifting after two years of conflict, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu faces one of the most explosive political challenges of his tenure. Lawmakers are debating the controversial draft bill meant to end long-standing exemptions for ultra-Orthodox men in religious study, a practice ruled illegal almost two decades ago by Israel's High Court.

 

Last year, lawmakers formally discontinued the current system of exemptions that allowed ultra-Orthodox men to avoid military service, which led to increased tensions on the streets. Approximately 24,000 draft notices were issued last year, but only around 1,200 ultra-Orthodox men reported for duty. Recent protests, marked by confrontations with authorities and a "Black Alert" system for swift community mobilisation, highlight the deepening divide.

 

Public support for extending conscription is on the rise, with opinion polls showing that 85% of non-Haredi Jews back sanctions for those refusing draft orders. The debate over the proposed law has provoked strong reactions, including vast protests in Jerusalem and demonstrations against some Haredi politicians. Critics of the exemptions argue that serving in the military should be a national duty, regardless of religious beliefs.

 

The ultra-Orthodox community's resistance to the draft is based on the belief that religious study protects the nation, equal in importance to military capabilities. Rabbi Tzemach Mazuz highlights this perspective, asserting that Torah study is as crucial as combat service. However, as Israel's ultra-Orthodox population grows—now making up 14% of the country—pressure mounts from within and outside the community for reform.

 

Looking forward, the draft bill is a pivotal moment for Netanyahu's government. While ultra-Orthodox parties are essential allies in his coalition, past efforts to enact similar legislation have ended in governmental collapse. The bill currently retains many exemptions and faces opposition even from within Netanyahu's camp, potentially endangering its passage ahead of next year's elections. The situation underscores the ongoing debate over Israel's identity and the balance between religious duties and national service, reported the BBC.

 

 

Key Takeaways:

 

• Israel's government is divided over a bill to conscript ultra-Orthodox men.
• Opposition comes from both ultra-Orthodox communities and political factions.
• The bill's future could heavily influence Israel's political landscape.

 

  Adapted by ASEAN Now from BBC 2025-12-04

 

 

 

 

these ultra's are also amongst the settlers who attack Arabs in the WestBank...

let them go in the army, just like anyone else!

Forcing them to join military may backfire. In protest they may not carry out the orders. 

19 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

You think or is it  an opportunity to get in a bit of jew bashing?  I attended a Christian school and we had Scripture and bible studies and I remember this passage well. The passage in Hebrew does not say anything close to Thou shalt not kill another neighbor (aka Jew).  That is your invention and it is a vile and disgusting falsehood.  It states YOU SHALL NOT MURDER (reply 1 from me)

The Jewish  teaching on this is repeated multiple times throughout their Old Testament. The New testament  refers to those teachings and quotes them. For example,  Matthew 5:21-22 You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not murder’ and ‘Anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’  even in Romans which was not particularly jewish friendly, the concept of not murdering  was repeated: Romans 13:9 “Do not murder,”    James 2:11 also refers to the Jewish laws  where it emphasizes Do not murder If you commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 

 

Gaza attacked Israel on October 7 and the Gazans murdered 1200 non combatants. Gaza took non combatants hostage. The Gazans who have since died have died in a war that the Gazans started. It could have ended very quickly had the Gazans agreed to cease the hostilities and release the hostages. the Gazans chose not to do that and instead continued  with their war.

 

There is no genocide in Gaza. Repeating a falsehood does not change the reality.  The deaths cited and presented by western media have relied on data provided by Hamas. Those numbers have since been disproven. The Gaza population is stable, and is not shrinking.

 

 

Reply 1: Many West Bank Rabbis are all in favor of killing Palestinians there. And old testament is chock full of genocides to take others lands because those lands were 'promised': all you have to do is kill everyone & everything in some cases, or just all but female virgins.... are you saying that wasn't murder? Worse than the Nazis: Anger because not all living things weren't slaughtered.

And even while commandments were fresh, Moses had the Levites slaughter 3000 fellow jews who'd made a golden calf..... more murders.... But what does any of this have to do with Ultra Orthodox getting a 'free ride' (not defending their promised land)? It's not jew baiting as you imply. It is more in support that all Jews, regardless of whacky sects, should serve in the military. hardly 'a bit of jew bashing'.

Many poster have agreed that 'no one should get a free ride' re national defense.

1200 non combatants died during the raid, even some Thais (I assume not Jewish). Number of Gazans dead ranges from 70-100,000 those are not made up numbers.  Plus devastation not seen since dictator Assad tore Syria to pieces. Killing of journalists, aid workers, destruction of hospitals, ambulances, etc. Even war has some rules. 

Considering the treatment of Palestinians, in Gaza and West Bank that makes genocide of American Natives look tame... the oppression, destruction, settlers murdering and pillaging... I would fight back, losing cause or not. 

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees

1 hour ago, Emdog said:

Reply 1: Many West Bank Rabbis are all in favor of killing Palestinians there. And old testament is chock full of genocides to take others lands because those lands were 'promised': all you have to do is kill everyone & everything in some cases, or just all but female virgins.... are you saying that wasn't murder? Worse than the Nazis: Anger because not all living things weren't slaughtered.

The only justification for conscription is when not enough brainwashed will volunteer for slaughter. That's not the case in China & I hardly think Israel needs Haredi soldiers.

 

What I take issue with is the phrase 'defense'. Israel is not defending its sovereignty, it's bombing other sovereign nations, arguably, including Palestine.

 

Glad they had enough sense to save the extra virgins...

21 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

You think or is it  an opportunity to get in a bit of jew bashing?  I attended a Christian school and we had Scripture and bible studies and I remember this passage well. The passage in Hebrew does not say anything close to Thou shalt not kill another neighbor (aka Jew).  That is your invention and it is a vile and disgusting falsehood.  It states YOU SHALL NOT MURDER

The Jewish  teaching on this is repeated multiple times throughout their Old Testament. The New testament  refers to those teachings and quotes them. For example,  Matthew 5:21-22 You have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not murder’ and ‘Anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’  even in Romans which was not particularly jewish friendly, the concept of not murdering  was repeated: Romans 13:9 “Do not murder,”    James 2:11 also refers to the Jewish laws  where it emphasizes Do not murder If you commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 

Throughout the Torah,God commands the Israelites to kill entire groups, towns, and enemy peoples.
So if you want to cite biblical law as universal, you also have to include all of that. What makes my first quote shocking is that Netanyahu quoted it recently.

 

The commandment “You shall not murder” (Lo tirtsach) applies to unlawful killing within the Israelite community.

The Torah explicitly permits killing in war.

The Torah explicitly commands killing certain groups.

The Torah does not treat all killing as equal, which is why “murder” is the correct translation.

So when someone says the Torah teaches a universal “Thou shalt not kill,” they are ignoring the broader legal and narrative context.

 

Deuteronomy 25:17-19

“Blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.”

Later clarified in

Exodus 17:14-16

“I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek.”

 

Deuteronomy 20:16-17

God commands Israel to show no mercy to certain peoples:

• Hittites

• Amorites

• Canaanites

• Perizzites

• Hivites

• Jebusites

“You shall not leave alive anything that breathes.”
“You shall completely destroy them…”

Numbers 31:1-18

God commands Moses to attack Midian:

• All male Midianites are killed

• Captives taken

• Moses orders the killing of all boys and all non-virgin women

Numbers 21:34-35

“Do not fear him, for I have given him into your hand…
so that you struck him and his sons and all his people, until there was no survivor left.”

Deuteronomy 13:12-16

If an Israelite town turns to other gods:

“You shall put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, devoting it to destruction…
You shall gather all its spoil into the middle of the public square and burn the city.”

20 hours ago, FlorC said:

Israel is one of only a few countries where military service is compulsory for many able-bodied female citizens. 

So what about ultra orthodox women ?

In ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities, women face massive, institutionalized discrimination that shapes every part of their lives. They are barred from religious leadership, excluded from public prayer, and segregated from men in schools, synagogues, buses, and community events. Their images are censored 

- entire newspapers and magazines literally erase women from photographs as if they do not exist. Their clothing, movement, and behaviour are policed under strict modesty rules, and they are not allowed to celebrate, participate, or even be visibly present in the same way men are. They are denied the basic dignity of visibility, voice, and equal status. It is a system where inequality isn’t accidental - it is enforced, normalised, and defended as religious law.

5 minutes ago, RobKray said:

What makes my first quote shocking is that Netanyahu quoted it recently.

 

In a letter he addressed to the Israeli soldiers and officers on Friday, he used several quotes from the Torah to incite them against the Gaza Strip.

"Remember what Amalek did to you," Netanyahu told the Israeli soldiers, in reference to the warring Amalekites tribe, mentioned in several books of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, to justify their attacks on Gaza.

“This is a war between the children of light and the children of darkness,” Netanyahu said using these words of religious connotation. "We will not relent in our mission until the light overcomes the darkness; the good will defeat the extremist evil that threatens us and the entire world."

"You have girded me with strength for the battle; You have subdued under me those who rose up against me," Netanyahu quoted from the Jewish book of Tanakh (Psalms 18:40).

Last week, Netanyahu also invoked Jewish and Christian scripture to justify the ongoing war on the Gaza Strip.

"The Bible says that 'there is a time for peace and a time for war.' This is a time for war," Netanyahu told a press conference, quoting Ecclesiastes, a book in both the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) and the Old Testament of the Christian Bible.

On Oct. 28, he invoked for the first time the Amalekites theory to justify his actions against Gaza.

“With shared forces, with deep faith in the justice of our cause and in the eternity of Israel, we will realize the prophecy of Isaiah 60:18 – 'Violence shall no more be heard in your land, desolation nor destruction within your borders; but you shall call your walls Salvation, and your gates Praise',” he said.

 

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/premier-netanyahu-continues-to-use-scriptures-to-defend-israeli-war-on-gaza/3042801

 

15 minutes ago, RobKray said:

In ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities, women face massive, institutionalized discrimination that shapes every part of their lives. They are barred from religious leadership, excluded from public prayer, and segregated from men in schools, synagogues, buses, and community events. Their images are censored 

- entire newspapers and magazines literally erase women from photographs as if they do not exist. Their clothing, movement, and behaviour are policed under strict modesty rules, and they are not allowed to celebrate, participate, or even be visibly present in the same way men are. They are denied the basic dignity of visibility, voice, and equal status. It is a system where inequality isn’t accidental - it is enforced, normalised, and defended as religious law.

Wondered why I've never seen women dancing at their rituals.

I'm sure they'd be a good addition to the IDF