Car Accident , Falang Hits Thai

[taxexile]

last night , my sister in law was driving home from work along an expressway , when she was hit from behind , by a car that had been trying to , but had failed to overtake another car. damage to both cars was minimal.

she pulled over , and the car that hit her also pulled over and they both stopped.

the driver , a falang , remained seated in his car. my sister in law got out of her car and walked back to speak to him , she speaks very good english.

he was uncommunicative and said he had no licence , only an international one , my sister in law replied that she would have to call her insurance company and walked back to her car to get her phone .

he then drove off , and made his escape.

my sister in law , a feisty women , who never gives up , gave chase and eventually , miles from her intended route home , lost him , but fortunately a policeman on a motor bike was nearby , so she stopped him and asked him to give chase , which he did.

the falang was eventually stopped and after some discussion they all proceeded to a police station , where he witheld information , and kept everybody waiting a long time before agreeing to produce any documents , he produced a thai licence and insurance.

the police also manage to find out he was australian , aged 62 , a lawyer , and working for one of the big legal firms in bangkok .

he claimed he hadnt tried to drive away , but merely wanted to get off the expressway before stopping , but that does nothing to explain why a police bike had to chase him and get him to stop long after they left the expressway , he claimed not to be able to speak thai , but when the police were debating whether to arrest him or not for not having a licence , he soon produced one. his thai wife eventually arrived and was , according to my sister in law , not a very nice person. both of them behaved arrogantly to my sister in law.

my sister in law was furious with him for trying to get away , and for delaying her journey home where her 4 year old son was waiting for her , and for generally being arrogant and unhelpful . why didnt he just show his insurance at the scene , make a couple of phone calls and then they could both be on their way , rather than sitting in a police station for 3 hours.

he eventually apologised for the accident , but my sister in law said it was three hours too late for that , and she intends to bury him.

the police asked my sister in law what she wanted them to do.

she said that she will press charges against him for driving off after a collision , and as this is a criminal offence and if he is found guilty it could affect his work permit and visa status. my sister in law has filed charges with the police and has two witness statements from the motorbike policemen.

as it so happens , this law company does legal work for the big japanese company that my sister in law works for , and she has quite a high managerial position there , and can pull strings in bangkok.

the manager of the law firm has , i believe , phoned my sister in law today and offered apologies and costs for any repairs , but my sister in law still wants to bury the arrogant , irresponsible and smug ( her words) australian , her reasoning being that he tried to get away with it by driving off and then by behaving in true lawyer fashion at the police station and that had it been somebody less persistent than herself , he would have got away with it , and as a lawyer , working in a foreign country he should have behaved more responsibly. (i dont think his wife helped his cause too much either.) someone should teach this man a lesson she said , and i fully intend to try.

the law company will speak to their employee to get his side of things , and will contact my sister in law later today.

maybe she will cool down a bit and withdraw the charges , maybe she wont.

i would be very surprised if she does.

what do the panel of experts out there think ?

is she making a mountain out of a molehill , or should this pr1ck ( my words) be taught a lesson in responsibility ?

Edited August 22, 2007 by taxexile

[LookSaMoon]

I would do the same as your sister in law and not because this guy is falang.

But he's really guilty and deserve to get hard lesson.

[game4shame]

inexcusable behaviour from a 62yo professional.

he deserves a treble whammy:

[lannarebirth]

I think your sister in law is absolutely correct, but before she deals the final blow that could affect his family, work, future, she should offer a way out. This guy needs to be penalized for his actions. As no injuries were sustained, I would think covering her damages, a verbal and written apology and maybe 100,000 baht for being a dick might suffice.

[jumnien]

I think your sister in law should fuel her resentment against this man for several years and devote her entire being to create misery for this lawyer. Just kidding! I'm sure she'll get over it and live and let live.

[jimmym40]

Totally agree with your sister-in-law. Being a professional as he is, he should have known better. He is not above all others to get special treatment.

Don't know if it's criminal enough to ruin his career, but I would suggest at least 250,000 baht escape route.

Keep us posted on results.

[wasabi]

From what is written here it's clearly your Sister in law who was wronged, no one likes to feel shafted and it's human nature to want to teach those who shaft us a lesson but your sister in law may want to come across as more reasonable before others start to feel, "she doth protest too much" Being overly aggressive and punitive to another can backfire. I would try to act quick and decisively and now while she seems to have things in her favor go for a written apology and cash payout. While arrogant on the part of the lawyer the situation does seem minor and with the right hands greased he could be able to weasel out of it, if she pushes things too far she may end up with nothing as the emotions she is feeling will fizzle out in others and the desire to make it go away will arise.

[lannarebirth]

I think your sister in law is absolutely correct, but before she deals the final blow that could affect his family, work, future, she should offer a way out. This guy needs to be penalized for his actions. As no injuries were sustained, I would think covering her damages, a verbal and written apology and maybe 100,000 baht for being a dick might suffice.

And maybe another 20k to the policemans benevolant association for making them chase the ######.

[taxexile]

i'm inclined to agree with most of the replies here , i.e. to make him sweat a while but at the end give him a way out.

but as to an offer of money other than for the repair costs , i think she would find it insulting.

to have him criminalized and to possibly jeopardise his job etc. and right to remain here does seem a bit over the top.

so thanks for the replies ..... i'll pass on to her the advice given here.

[Captain Chaos]

the police also manage to find out he was australian , aged 62 , a lawyer , and working for one of the big legal firms in bangkok .

Was it Bendix?

Sorry, couldn't resist ... I'll get me coat ...

CC

[DamianMavis]

Ya he needs to FULLY understand that it is his attitude and his wifes attitude that is totally wrong. If she can successully do that somehow.... I dont know. What a total jerkoff. I say 100,000 to 200,000 to let him off the hook. Settle out of court? Ruining his life would be too much, he didnt kill anyone.

Damian

[JimsKnight]

Too right, bury the stupid pr1ck lawyer. He's blackened the name of farang expats in the thai eyes. Get him out! Or at least a big fine to make him think twice before pulling a stunt like that again.

A lawyer should know better than to fck around when in the wrong!

Edited August 22, 2007 by JimsKnight

[Carmine6]

i'm inclined to agree with most of the replies here , i.e. to make him sweat a while but at the end give him a way out.

but as to an offer of money other than for the repair costs , i think she would find it insulting.

to have him criminalized and to possibly jeopardise his job etc. and right to remain here does seem a bit over the top.

so thanks for the replies ..... i'll pass on to her the advice given here.

I think he's the one who's jeopardized his job precisely by acting criminally after a fender bender. He's lucky he can possibly buy his way out. The firm shouldn't just ignore it no matter what the outcome, though it just may.

If he were my lawyer I'd be a little concerned about his actions in trying to avoid responsibility. If he made some mistake in drafting a legal document for me and then discovered it after it had been signed, would he bring it to my attention or not tell me until it was too late? Hard to believe he'd be a stand up guy in his professional life if he acts like this in his personal life.

If it were me, and he made me wait at the police station that long and been arrogant to my face, he can keep his money and face the consequences. But I don't need the money and I have a fair amount of free time.

Since it's not me and I don't have a 4 year old and all kinds of other more pressing concerns, I think much of the other advice is pretty good.

[Demodokos]

How would have he react if she would have been injured? Run away??

I'm sure he is one of these arrogant farangs who bash thai people and their way of driving...

[stickman]

The farang lawyer's actions were very clearly wrong, at least based on the story as it was told here. It must be stated however that they are no different to what we read in the newspapers every day. Somchai's car / bus / minivan caused an accident and good old Somchai fled the scene. This sort of thing happens all the time in Thailand. I'm not saying that that makes it right, just that it is a common occurence.

What I find perturbing is the way people want to see this guy fried. What he did was very clearly wrong - but is it then ok to extort (and that is what it is) a few thousand to several thousand dollars from him?

I find his actions (based on this story - and that is just one side of the story) completely wrong but I also find the suggested responses on this thread rather strong, to say the least.

Ask yourself this question. If the driver at fault had been Thai, would you have suggested the same course of action? I have my doubts... What is about many Westerners in Thailand that makes them believe that extreme punishment should be dished out towards a farang who may have done something wrong?

[ballbreaker]

It seems strange to me that the police have not filed criminal charges against this person. Don't they have laws in this country against what he has done?

[taxexile]

Ask yourself this question. If the driver at fault had been Thai, would you have suggested the same course of action? I have my doubts... What is about many Westerners in Thailand that makes them believe that extreme punishment should be dished out towards a farang who may have done something wrong?

i wonder how this lawyer would prepare a defence case for someone in his position , because his behaviour was really indefensible .

actually the police said to my sister in law that had he been thai they would have prosecuted him as a matter of course , but because he was a falang they didnt want to get involved and were all for letting the insurance companies sort it out. it was only due to my sister in laws insistence that they went ahead with filing the report.

and yes ,i'm sure thais would have stuck together , supporting their own in a case like this had it been a thai who crashed into a falang in say the uk or usa.

sometimes i do think that we should stick together more and support each other more as expats in a foriegn country.

in thailand we need all the help that we can get , but as westerners we do like to see wrongdoers face the law , and take pleasure from it too. whereas thais try to evade the law and its consequences at almost every opportunity , possibly with good reason considering the unfairness and vague nature of the system here.

putting myself in his position , i just cant understand why he didnt just phone his insurance company and be done with instead of being so cowardly and difficult.

but at the end of it all , he acted dishonestly and if he gets away with it , then he will just do it again if he had to.

[Jimjim]

She should let it go, but only after she accepts money for the damages, and get a bit of extra money (settlement) beyond that for her trouble. Once she gets this far and has received the money, then it's time to let it go.

Edit: I don't like this idea of "farang" sticking together merely because we're farang. Why? We're all from different countries! We only became farang collectively merely because the color of our skin and how Thais refer to farang so generally in their language, and joining together because of skin color is going backwards in my mind. However, if I happen upon a farang in trouble who has no other Thai or other friends to help him out and seeing as he's in a strange country where he probably doesn't know the language, then I'd be inclined to help in some way. You see what I mean? You have to look at it on a case by case situation. For my money, there's not much linking me to another white man from France simply because we're in Thailand and stand out among Asians. In this situation, the farang lawyer would be in no need of defending or help because of his own actions, and because he obviously has connections.

I'll end by noting I'd be more inclined to help if the person was from my own country as there would be something, while still very general, connecting us. However, it still rings true that there are good and bad people in any country, neighborhood, etc. so I don't buy into the idea of wanting to help someone merely because they're farang. I have no inclination to take a farang's side nor to take a Thai's side in any matter. We should want to come to the aid of someone no matter where they're from. I understand we're all in the same boat in that we're in a foreign land away from our own country, but this in itself is not a reason to band together and help out in every situation and create an us against them mentality.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Jimjim

[pattyboy]

Maybe he thought he was doing the right thing by driving away. I've lost track of how many times I've heard that Thais almost always handle an accident situation like this when they're in the wrong --- 555.

Edited August 23, 2007 by pattyboy

[Carmine6]

The farang lawyer's actions were very clearly wrong, at least based on the story as it was told here. It must be stated however that they are no different to what we read in the newspapers every day. Somchai's car / bus / minivan caused an accident and good old Somchai fled the scene. This sort of thing happens all the time in Thailand. I'm not saying that that makes it right, just that it is a common occurence.

What I find perturbing is the way people want to see this guy fried. What he did was very clearly wrong - but is it then ok to extort (and that is what it is) a few thousand to several thousand dollars from him?

I find his actions (based on this story - and that is just one side of the story) completely wrong but I also find the suggested responses on this thread rather strong, to say the least.

Ask yourself this question. If the driver at fault had been Thai, would you have suggested the same course of action? I have my doubts... What is about many Westerners in Thailand that makes them believe that extreme punishment should be dished out towards a farang who may have done something wrong?

Maybe you're right, but in my case I have equally high expectations. This guy is in a profession where trust is important. Doesn't matter what his ethnicity or citizenship is. He took a routine incident where he had no legal issues - not drunk, had insurance, had a license, minimal damage, no injuries, and then committed a crime by leaving. Why should the partners in the firm take this lightly? It's been my experience that folks who act shady don't just do it once, particularly if they're 62 years old.

If he's a dentist or sales manager, he gets a lot more slack from me, but then he'd also be unlikely to be fired. But delivery truck driver or taxi driver and well he's got a problem.

[ProThaiExpat]

Carmine6 is one of the few posters who have raised the issue of professional responsibility.

As a lawyer practicing lawyer in a firm, this lawyer has a professional responsibility to act in accordance with the law and when he fails to do so, regardless of his excuses, he should be dealt with severely as he would have in his own country.

Law societies or Bar Associations are present in most countries and states where lawyers are admitted to practice and this guy would be before the bar association quite quickly in his home country.

His actions involve moral turpitude, not just negligence, since he not only fled to avoid responsibility, but clearly lied about the circumstances.

All members of the public, reading this account, are fully justified in being demoralized when a practicing professional acts in violation of the law he is sworn to uphold. Not knowing what this lawyers professional qualifications are or of his professional conduct in the past in Australia or here, it is hard determine what is just in these circumstances.

But what is clear, is that he should be dealt with harshly, as he has brought disrepute to his profession by his actions and there are enough negative feelings toward lawyers as it is.

[thai_narak]

forget about race here, the fact that he had lied and run away is enough reason to grill him. justice is balance, lawyer or not.

[PeaceBlondie]

All right, I'll go ahead anyway and list a modest proposal. Tax evile's sister in law should refuse any money at all, except from the insurance company, on the premise that the money of this lawyer and his wife is shit. Then the only remedy she needs to insist upon is that both the lawyer and his Thai wife get on the floor and in the most humiliating phrases of central Thai, admit their sins, lose face, and beg forgiveness.

[britmaveric]

He's a lawyer working for a big firm in BKK - I'm sure he will get off. Better to settle it out of court - more beneficial in the long run.

[choppychugger]

I think your sister in law is absolutely correct, but before she deals the final blow that could affect his family, work, future, she should offer a way out. This guy needs to be penalized for his actions. As no injuries were sustained, I would think covering her damages, a verbal and written apology and maybe 100,000 baht for being a dick might suffice.

Totally agree with your sister-in-law. Being a professional as he is, he should have known better. He is not above all others to get special treatment.

Don't know if it's criminal enough to ruin his career, but I would suggest at least 250,000 baht escape route.

Keep us posted on results.

Ya he needs to FULLY understand that it is his attitude and his wifes attitude that is totally wrong. If she can successully do that somehow.... I dont know. What a total jerkoff. I say 100,000 to 200,000 to let him off the hook. Settle out of court? Ruining his life would be too much, he didnt kill anyone.

Damian

In a country where corruption is rife, I am surprised at the amount of replies promoting it. If it effects his status in this country, then so be it.

Would he have done the same if he had injured or maybe even killed her………..?

Maybe I haven’t lived here long enough

Edited August 23, 2007 by choppychugger

[Who, me ?]

All right, I'll go ahead anyway and list a modest proposal. Tax evile's sister in law should refuse any money at all, except from the insurance company, on the premise that the money of this lawyer and his wife is shit. Then the only remedy she needs to insist upon is that both the lawyer and his Thai wife get on the floor and in the most humiliating phrases of central Thai, admit their sins, lose face, and beg forgiveness.

That's the best offer so far....Keeping clean out of money, and make the offender do something they won't forget.....

[singa-traz]

Of course, Lapidation is the right punishment for this Lawyer!

I really admire people who after being victim of a car accident, can participate in car racing in Bangkok, just to get even.

I find this equally wrong, as the lawyer's reaction.

And I don't see what any good it will do to the lady, if she insists on bringing this matter to court.

Revenge does not give you bonus point for your Karma.

So, yes, she meet someone who did something wrong, but car damage was minor and nobody was hurt (except her feeling apparently).

Settle it out of court with the Lawyer is the best option.

From my experience:

My wife had a car accident with a motorcycle. Responsabilities were 50/50, and the guy was slightly hurt.

My wife made sure he was sent to hospital, and gave all necessary contacts.

After review, the doctor concluded that the guy could now go home, and did not need to stay in hospital.

His wife came in and insisted on his husband staying there, and started black-mailing my wife (xxx,xxx THB), even after the insurance guy came in.

At the end, we had to bring somebody as equally "strong" in the picture, and explain them that they could sue if they wanted,

but it would take a long time, and that during this time, their lawyer's fee will literally "kill them".

Would I be scared if I had a car accident, even a minor one? Yes.

Would I flee the scene of the accident, if apparent damage could be repaired with only a few thousands THB? Probably not, but I actually don't know.

[lazeeboy]

The farang lawyer's actions were very clearly wrong, at least based on the story as it was told here. It must be stated however that they are no different to what we read in the newspapers every day. Somchai's car / bus / minivan caused an accident and good old Somchai fled the scene. This sort of thing happens all the time in Thailand. I'm not saying that that makes it right, just that it is a common occurence.

What I find perturbing is the way people want to see this guy fried. What he did was very clearly wrong - but is it then ok to extort (and that is what it is) a few thousand to several thousand dollars from him?

I find his actions (based on this story - and that is just one side of the story) completely wrong but I also find the suggested responses on this thread rather strong, to say the least.

Ask yourself this question. If the driver at fault had been Thai, would you have suggested the same course of action? I have my doubts... What is about many Westerners in Thailand that makes them believe that extreme punishment should be dished out towards a farang who may have done something wrong?

i dont like the fact he drove away but how many thai's would go the same ........

[quiksilva]

I have had a few minor prangs here and every time I call the insurance company. Its the responsible legal thing to do, and has never been a problem.

As a lawyer this guy knows better than to drive off after an accident but did it anyway. He should be taught to respect the law, not just earn a Baht from it.

[percy2]

Carmine6 is one of the few posters who have raised the issue of professional responsibility.

As a lawyer practicing lawyer in a firm, this lawyer has a professional responsibility to act in accordance with the law and when he fails to do so, regardless of his excuses, he should be dealt with severely as he would have in his own country.

Law societies or Bar Associations are present in most countries and states where lawyers are admitted to practice and this guy would be before the bar association quite quickly in his home country.

His actions involve moral turpitude, not just negligence, since he not only fled to avoid responsibility, but clearly lied about the circumstances.

All members of the public, reading this account, are fully justified in being demoralized when a practicing professional acts in violation of the law he is sworn to uphold. Not knowing what this lawyers professional qualifications are or of his professional conduct in the past in Australia or here, it is hard determine what is just in these circumstances.

But what is clear, is that he should be dealt with harshly, as he has brought disrepute to his profession by his actions and there are enough negative feelings toward lawyers as it is.

Thank you you saved me typing.

He should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

To pull strings within his company or try to extract monetary recompense would be distasteful.

Cheers