How to escape Russia’s army: Soldiers serving in Ukraine seek a way out

Russia’s army faces a desertion crisis as it continues to use waves of soldiers to attack Ukraine’s defensive positions.

Mansur Mirovalev

al-Jazeera: 4 May 2026

Oleg, a 24-year-old who grew up in the western Russian city of Ufa, thought he was signing up to work as a security guard at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant in the occupied part of southeastern Ukraine.

He knew the job was being arranged through the army, but did not imagine having to serve on the frontlines.

The officer who handed him the contract at 11pm had asked Oleg to sign an “appendix” that turned out to be an agreement to become a drone pilot, he said.

Last June, the independent Mediazona publication claimed that almost 21,000 Russian servicemen were convicted for refusing to serve, adding that even more deserters were taken back to their military units without being prosecuted.

The United Nations’ special rapporteur on human rights said in September that at least 50,000 Russian soldiers, or about one in 10 servicemen fighting in Ukraine, had deserted since 2022.

Keep up the good work boys !

About 6% of US troops actually deserted during the Vietnam war, which is comparable to the Soviet and Italian Armies in WW2, which saw the highest desertion rates of the major powers. Except for Italy, the combat effectiveness of neither the Soviet nor US armies were effected by such a rate. You have to look at WW1 to know what an absolutely catastrophic rate looked like, which was the Russian Army, with a desertion rate of 36%.

The UN number appears to include troops returned to unit, ie. gone AWOL. Its not a statistic that greatly changes anything on the ground.

I wonder how many soldiers are shooting the officers? I would if I was going to die anyway.

12 hours ago, gargamon said:

I wonder how many soldiers are shooting the officers? I would if I was going to die anyway.

It happens; about 100-200 Russian soldiers end up in court accused of killing civilians or other Russian soldiers. There are numerous documented cases among coalition troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (not ANA attacking ISAF). Remember HMS Astute, back in 2011, when an Able Seaman stole a SA80 at Southampton and ran amok, killing 2 CPOs and an officer, before a civilian vistor tackled him.

5 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

It happens; about 100-200 Russian soldiers end up in court accused of killing civilians or other Russian soldiers. There are numerous documented cases among coalition troops in Iraq and Afghanistan (not ANA attacking ISAF). Remember HMS Astute, back in 2011, when an Able Seaman stole a SA80 at Southampton and ran amok, killing 2 CPOs and an officer, before a civilian vistor tackled him.

I only recall the revelations about the Vietnam atrocities by US forces and the unforgettable video of a girl running down the road on fire from napalm launched on civilians.

Now it is white phosphorus .

There is no innocence or innocent despite presumptions of intelligence and learning !

8 hours ago, 0ffshore360 said:

I only recall the revelations about the Vietnam atrocities by US forces and the unforgettable video of a girl running down the road on fire from napalm launched on civilians.

Now it is white phosphorus .

There is no innocence or innocent despite presumptions of intelligence and learning !

We were discussing blue on blue, fraticide, fragging, not Vietnam. That's for another topic.

2 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

We were discussing blue on blue, fraticide, fragging, not Vietnam. That's for another topic.

War crimes need a specific topic for reference?

1 hour ago, 0ffshore360 said:

War crimes need a specific topic for reference?

The question was whether Russian soldiers were murdering their own officers or not. My response is that its actually not that unusual in wartime, and in peace, for soldiers and those in uniform, to attack their colleagues and superiors, for a variety of reasons. I cited some numbers, which are based on observations by exiled Russian newspaers analysing available Russian court records, which are likely an undererestimate, but in a 4 year period, it seems reasonable that 1000-1500 Russian soldiers have attacked their fellow soldiers and officers. If we consider analogous recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are mostly attempted mass shootings, before being aprehended, we can assume 2-3 dead per attack, suggesting losses of 2000-4500 due to deliberate fraticide. But that has to be balanced against a total of around 2 million Russian soldiers cumulatively deployed to Ukraine. And yes, a lot of them have been wounded, possibly multiple times in that time. The Russian losses quoted, of around 1.2 million is a mix of dead and wounded. But the number includes men who have been injured more than one. Nevertheless, its credible that 40% of the Russian army is dead or maimed. That translates into about 250,000 dead and 200,000 seriously wounded, if we use casualty rates from previous conflicts.

So fragging incidents, leaving aside the impact on morale, are not likely to be a significant issue in Russian army combat effectiveness, similar to the observed desertion rates. The desertion rate would likely need to double before you see impacts on the Russian army's effectiveness.

In WW2, the German and Soviet armies had much higher desertion rates than the other belligerants. And thats largely because it was easier for deserters to go home. For a British or American soldier in France or Belgium, if they deserted, where could they go?

You are deflecting for your own purposes, to avoid discussing Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I'll conclude that you don't want to discuss that topic because you are in some way support of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

You should open your own topic to discuss comparisons of current war crimes against historic examples, actual and alleged.

The example you cite, of Phan Thi Kim Phuc (there was no film footage, nor video footage, it was a still photograph only) running up the road (at least have the humanity to give her a name), describes a moment following an airstrike by South Vietnamese Air Force Douglas Skyraiders, not the USAF in 1972. You implied this incident was executed by the American forces during fighting near Trang Bang.

In 1990, an American named John Plummer claimed he was the operations officer working with the ARVN forces when they came under attack by North Vietnamese forces, and he called in air support, with tactical air delegating a South Vietnamese aircraft to the task. Plummer recalled asking if civilians had been evacuated from the area, and was told they had. The details of the incident indicate that Kim Phuc was part of a group of South Vietnamese civilians fleeing the communists, that the pilot mistook for NVA and Viet Cong irregulars.

Far from being an American atrocity as you allege, it was in fact an example of a tragic blue on blue incident, or an accident. Of course, the pilot might have been culpable, but the degree of that depended if he violated VNAF SOPs. Likely, he would not have been successfully convicted of a war crime.

At the time, the use of incendiary devices, including napalm, was not considered, legally, to be a war crime. That position was not adopted until 1980, so it would be a little unfair of you to accuse Americans of ciminality when in fact no crime had taken place.

Quite a few of the deserters seem to be ending up on tropical islands that we won't name...

Running various tourism businesses, no less.

Edited May 9May 9 by impulse

8 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

We were discussing blue on blue, fraticide, fragging, not Vietnam. That's for another topic.

While I'm certain it has occurred in every war, fratricide and fragging became best known from the war on Vietnam.

4 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

The question was whether Russian soldiers were murdering their own officers or not. My response is that its actually not that unusual in wartime, and in peace, for soldiers and those in uniform, to attack their colleagues and superiors, for a variety of reasons. I cited some numbers, which are based on observations by exiled Russian newspaers analysing available Russian court records, which are likely an undererestimate, but in a 4 year period, it seems reasonable that 1000-1500 Russian soldiers have attacked their fellow soldiers and officers. If we consider analogous recent events in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are mostly attempted mass shootings, before being aprehended, we can assume 2-3 dead per attack, suggesting losses of 2000-4500 due to deliberate fraticide. But that has to be balanced against a total of around 2 million Russian soldiers cumulatively deployed to Ukraine. And yes, a lot of them have been wounded, possibly multiple times in that time. The Russian losses quoted, of around 1.2 million is a mix of dead and wounded. But the number includes men who have been injured more than one. Nevertheless, its credible that 40% of the Russian army is dead or maimed. That translates into about 250,000 dead and 200,000 seriously wounded, if we use casualty rates from previous conflicts.

So fragging incidents, leaving aside the impact on morale, are not likely to be a significant issue in Russian army combat effectiveness, similar to the observed desertion rates. The desertion rate would likely need to double before you see impacts on the Russian army's effectiveness.

In WW2, the German and Soviet armies had much higher desertion rates than the other belligerants. And thats largely because it was easier for deserters to go home. For a British or American soldier in France or Belgium, if they deserted, where could they go?

You are deflecting for your own purposes, to avoid discussing Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I'll conclude that you don't want to discuss that topic because you are in some way support of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

You should open your own topic to discuss comparisons of current war crimes against historic examples, actual and alleged.

The example you cite, of Phan Thi Kim Phuc (there was no film footage, nor video footage, it was a still photograph only) running up the road (at least have the humanity to give her a name), describes a moment following an airstrike by South Vietnamese Air Force Douglas Skyraiders, not the USAF in 1972. You implied this incident was executed by the American forces during fighting near Trang Bang.

In 1990, an American named John Plummer claimed he was the operations officer working with the ARVN forces when they came under attack by North Vietnamese forces, and he called in air support, with tactical air delegating a South Vietnamese aircraft to the task. Plummer recalled asking if civilians had been evacuated from the area, and was told they had. The details of the incident indicate that Kim Phuc was part of a group of South Vietnamese civilians fleeing the communists, that the pilot mistook for NVA and Viet Cong irregulars.

Far from being an American atrocity as you allege, it was in fact an example of a tragic blue on blue incident, or an accident. Of course, the pilot might have been culpable, but the degree of that depended if he violated VNAF SOPs. Likely, he would not have been successfully convicted of a war crime.

At the time, the use of incendiary devices, including napalm, was not considered, legally, to be a war crime. That position was not adopted until 1980, so it would be a little unfair of you to accuse Americans of ciminality when in fact no crime had taken place.

There was only one country to drop napalm on Vietnamese. Ergo, 9-year old Kim Phuc was napalmed by Americans. (I will choose not to believe you are defending the indefensible war on Vietnam. Whether warcrime or not, we all have that voice inside telling us right from wrong. Napalm, Agent Orange? Wrong.)

She had extensive surgeries in Canada and continues to advocate for peace.

An excellent recent documentary on this is The Girl in the Picture.

Your figures for Russian casualties are massively deflated according to the Center for Strategic and Int’l Studies:

Total Casualties (Killed/Wounded/Missing): Approximately 1.2 million.

Current Monthly Loss Rate: NATO indicates 20,000–25,000 Russian soldiers are killed per month.

Unprecedented Losses: The Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) notes these are the highest fatalities for a major power since World War II.

6 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

While I'm certain it has occurred in every war, fratricide and fragging became best known from the war on Vietnam.

But that point raised was not an example of American troops attacking their own, but it was an attempt to hijack and deflect a thread away from criticising Mother Russia, which you are continuing.

Fragging might be best known from your American-centric view of the world, but largely because of Hollywood films made 20 years later. You might have been on the run for years from the authorities before receiving a pardon, but you were born an American and think like an American, and you still think Vietnam was the be all and end all of things. If it wasn't, then pretty much your entire life has been a failure. Your attempts to change the path of the US completely and utterly failed from the moment you took part in your imaginery Dow protest where you were apparently prosecuted by a 21 year old Rudi Giuliani.

6 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

There was only one country to drop napalm on Vietnamese. Ergo, 9-year old Kim Phuc was napalmed by Americans.

Look it up. The OP is correct.

Forty years ago, June 8, 1972, an Associated Press photographer, Nick Ut, was shooting photos outside of Trang Bang village, South Vietnam, when South Vietnamese planes accidentally dropped napalm bombs on Trang Bang, which had been occupied by North Vietnamese troops.

https://abcnews.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/the-historic-napalm-girl-pulitzer-image-marks-its-40th-anniversary?utm_source=chatgpt.com

The Russian military leadership is still applying the logic of Stalingrad. Drones have changed what used to work.

6 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

There was only one country to drop napalm on Vietnamese. Ergo, 9-year old Kim Phuc was napalmed by Americans. (I will choose not to believe you are defending the indefensible war on Vietnam. Whether warcrime or not, we all have that voice inside telling us right from wrong. Napalm, Agent Orange? Wrong.)

She had extensive surgeries in Canada and continues to advocate for peace.

An excellent recent documentary on this is The Girl in the Picture.

Your figures for Russian casualties are massively deflated according to the Center for Strategic and Int’l Studies:

Total Casualties (Killed/Wounded/Missing): Approximately 1.2 million.

Current Monthly Loss Rate: NATO indicates 20,000–25,000 Russian soldiers are killed per month.

Unprecedented Losses: The Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) notes these are the highest fatalities for a major power since World War II.

The VNAF dropped the munition in that incident. That is an historical fact, no matter how much you wish to racially dismiss the role of the South Vietnamese in their essentially civil war. The Vietnamese pilot lives in the US.

I've some reference you being a Holy Joe, a Quaker or something. Surprised you haven't read the accounts of John Plummer's claims. I'm surprised because he was a Holy Joe as well, and I thought your guys all stuck together because of God and whatnot. But I'll take back the claims of Plummer, a drunkard Methodist minister. Seems he might have been confused as to what happened. But nonetheless, sure you were aware of his 1996 claims with respect to the photograph?

https://catholicphilly.com/2013/11/news/national-news/vietnamese-bombing-survivor-came-from-war-now-preaches-peace/

Capt. John Plummer was there that day. “I knew also that extended to me,” said Plummer in the documentary. He believes he helped coordinate the bombing and said the intended targets were nearby enemy bunkers, not the village.

When Plummer read about the bombing in the newspaper Stars and Stripes, he said it was like being “hit with a baseball bat.”

Upon his return home from Vietnam, Plummer struggled with alcoholism and broken marriages.

He said he knew his struggles would continue, “until I reconcile with Kim somehow.” He passed a note to a National Park Service policeman at the memorial, hoping to get the chance to meet with her after the ceremony. A friend helped facilitate the meeting.

“It was really touching,” said Plummer in the documentary. “The entire world has lifted off my shoulders.” Now a Methodist minister, Plummer said he knew Kim would see his sorrow and know it was from his heart.

“We became good friends,” said Phuc of her relationship with Plummer. “It was truly reconciliation.”

The path for Phuc has been long though, and several things have helped in healing, including her family, her relationship with God, and seeking asylum in Canada.

There are differing accounts

https://www.military-history.us/2013/02/truth-in-education-and-the-vietnam-war/

The photo was taken on June 8, 1973 by Huynh Cong “Nick Ut an Associated Press photographer after the village of Trang Bang was accidentally napalmed by A-1 Skyraiders from the 518th Fighter Squadron of the Vietnamese Air Force (VNAF). The girl in the picture is named Phan Thi Kim Phuc an she was nine years old in the photo. The two boys on the left in the picture are her brothers and the children on the right are her cousins.

The airstrike was ordered by the commander of the 25th Division from the ARVN and carried out by aircraft of the RVNAF 518th Fighter Squadron. At no point in the loop between requesting, authorizing, or executing the airstrikes were any Americans involved. It was a completely Vietnamese show. Even more back story is that the village of Trang Bang was under attack by North Vietnamese forces and that is why the 25th division was there in the first place. The airstrike hit the wrong target which resulted in injuries and death to civilians. Not to be flip, but these kinds of things happen in war. War is only clean in video games.

Kim Phuc survived the war and defected to Canada in 1992 where she currently lives in Toronto, Ontario, Canada with her husband and two sons.  She also established the Kim Foundation, a charity dedicate to helping the child victims of war.  Ironically enough, the website for her charity repeats the lie that an American adviser was responsible for calling in the airstrike

https://digitaljournalist.org/issue0008/ng5.htm

The story of the heart wrenching "Napalm Girl" photograph was accurately and in detail reported in the immediate aftermath of the incident. The news agency and newspaper stories, including those of Peter Arnett and Fox Butterfield reported independently that the incident was involving only Vietnamese and happened during an all-Vietnamese fight.  The only foreigners, among them also Americans, were the reporters on the scene. 

The airstrike had been requested by a commander of the Vietnamese 25th Army Division and was provided by the exclusively Vietnamese co-ordinated and controlled 518th Vietnamese Airforce Squadron (VNAF), with Vietnamese pilots in the cockpits. Unlike in previous years of the war both the ground units and the Airforce Squadron had no U.S. advisors attached to them anymore. 

In June 1972 the "Vietnamization" of the war had been almost completed and most American fighting forces and men had been withdrawn. By March 1973 all US combat forces had left Vietnam and the Vietnamese fought on their own, until defeat in 1975.

Since the war ended in 1975 the Vietnam war myth was created that the air-strike was in fact ordered, co-ordinated or even flown by American commanders and pilots. In 1996 a former U.S. Army captain (John Plummer, now a Methodist minister) even claimed and "confessed" to have taken part in the air-strike, later only  claiming to have ordered the attack. His claim was thoroughly investigated and discredited a year later. He had lacked authority to communicate with the Vietnamese Airforce at the time of the incident.

For someone who writes for a living, you sometimes fail on the reading comprehension.

What I said:

The Russian losses quoted, of around 1.2 million is a mix of dead and wounded.

What you said:

Your figures for Russian casualties are massively deflated according to the Center for Strategic and Int’l Studies:

Total Casualties (Killed/Wounded/Missing): Approximately 1.2 million.

Same number.

Apologise for accusing me of not massively "deflating" (strange term to use) estimated Russian casualties.

What I did was dig in a bit more those numbers, but you didn't get that far, because you will were still itching to bitch about the Vietnamese girl. You didn't get to the bit where I stated seriously wounded. Or maybe you think a twisted ankle is as serious as a blown off leg.

1.2 million casualties does not mean 1.2 million men out of the war.

It means of that 1.2 million, some are missing, most likely dead.

It means of that 1.2 million, some are known to be dead, bodies recovered and recorded, or had died subsequently of wounds.

It means of that 1.2 million, some are wounded, and maimed, never to return to service

It means of that 1.2 million, some were wounded, patched up and sent back in.

Now, there might be some sympathy for these Russian troops. But the reality; in WW2, 50-60% of Allied troops who were wounded were patched up and sent back into the fight. Around 30% of Allied troops in WW2 were wounded at some point. At any one time, 5-15% were walking wounded; not taken off the line, bandaged, told to get on with it.

When you copy paste results from AI, its best to check the sources. Mark Rutte said, on January 13, 2026, that NATO is estimating that up to 25,000 Russians are being killed per month (he actually said 20,000 to 25,000 per month). That doesn't mean that 25,000 Russians have been killed every month since the conflict started. The war has waxed and waned over the years.

The implication from NATO (Rutte hasn't shared the model) doesn't stand u to scrutiny. 25,000 per year equates to 300,000 dead. The number of Russian troops deplyed to Ukraine is about 400,000 to 600,000 per year.

RUSI 2024 of Russian deployment:

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/russian-military-objectives-and-capacity-ukraine-through-2024?wpappninja_v=vjphqnyzz&utm_source=chatgpt.com

Institute for the Study of War

https://bcfausa.org/institute-for-the-study-of-war-russia-deploys-620000-troops-in-ukraine-and-kursk-an-increase-of-40000-from-december/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Ukrainian sources are suggesting 700,000.

An Army suffering 50% dead and still being combat effective is simply not credible. Bit you have never been in uniform, so how would you know.

2022 saw KIA per month ranging from 8000 to 15,000, highest during the invasion. WIA, which will comprise major injuries and minor injuries, about 25-45,000. The war was quite kinetic at this stage.

2023 saw KIA per month ranging from 6000 to 15,000, picking up at the end of the year with the Adiivika offensive. WIA, which will comprise major injuries and minor injuries, about 25-45,000. Moving to a grinding war, and seasonal offences.

2024 saw KIA per month ranging from 7000 to 15,000, peaking with the Adiivika offensive, when the US shut down Ukraine's intel feed. WIA, which will comprise major injuries and minor injuries, about 25-45,000

2025 saw KIA per month ranging from 6000 to 15,000 but getting more into the 15,000 range more frequently as the Russians throw more troops into the fight. WIA, which will comprise major injuries and minor injuries, about 25-45,000

2026 so far is much the same.

The NATO estimates will come from Abbeywood. Knowing those guys as I do, their estimates will always be quite conservative. Rutte, a former politician, I think misspoke, and you have not employed enough critical thinking. 25,000 combined KIA/WIA would fit with lower estimates.

1 hour ago, Effective altruism said:

Look it up. The OP is correct.

Forty years ago, June 8, 1972, an Associated Press photographer, Nick Ut, was shooting photos outside of Trang Bang village, South Vietnam, when South Vietnamese planes accidentally dropped napalm bombs on Trang Bang, which had been occupied by North Vietnamese troops.

https://abcnews.com/blogs/headlines/2012/06/the-historic-napalm-girl-pulitzer-image-marks-its-40th-anniversary?utm_source=chatgpt.com

No, I was partly wrong. The strike was called in by the ARVN. There is suspicion that the American who claimed to have been involved, made the claim because it cast attention on his Ministry. I guess because of money.

12 hours ago, impulse said:

Quite a few of the deserters seem to be ending up on tropical islands that we won't name...

Running various tourism businesses, no less.

Or people with a similar background to Unblocktheplanet.

On 5/8/2026 at 7:27 PM, 0ffshore360 said:

I only recall the revelations about the Vietnam atrocities by US forces and the unforgettable video of a girl running down the road on fire from napalm launched on civilians.

Now it is white phosphorus .

There is no innocence or innocent despite presumptions of intelligence and learning !

It was Napalm and launched by a South Vietnamese PIlot - protecting his home land, tragic, but this incident has been incorrectly reported like forever - it was not the USA that bombed that little girl. She has been living in Canada ever since and has undergone many, many reconstruction operations. Now back on topic, it was estimated that 5.5% of active duty Army, Navy, AF and Marines serving in Vietnam deserted in the 10 year war. Many more were Draft Dodgers, wonder what the percentage of Russians that have deserted is?.

8 hours ago, Explorator en Action said:

It was Napalm and launched by a South Vietnamese PIlot - protecting his home land, tragic, but this incident has been incorrectly reported like forever - it was not the USA that bombed that little girl. She has been living in Canada ever since and has undergone many, many reconstruction operations. Now back on topic, it was estimated that 5.5% of active duty Army, Navy, AF and Marines serving in Vietnam deserted in the 10 year war. Many more were Draft Dodgers, wonder what the percentage of Russians that have deserted is?.

Interesting how quickly association in negative events gets deflected ! The napalm attack was one such event . Was the My Lai massacre a "not us " another one? Different wars and different participants?

16 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

But that point raised was not an example of American troops attacking their own, but it was an attempt to hijack and deflect a thread away from criticising Mother Russia, which you are continuing.

Fragging might be best known from your American-centric view of the world, but largely because of Hollywood films made 20 years later. You might have been on the run for years from the authorities before receiving a pardon, but you were born an American and think like an American, and you still think Vietnam was the be all and end all of things. If it wasn't, then pretty much your entire life has been a failure. Your attempts to change the path of the US completely and utterly failed from the moment you took part in your imaginery Dow protest where you were apparently prosecuted by a 21 year old Rudi Giuliani.

Read my imaginary book! I'm no fan of any dictatorships. Desertion is a heroic act. Killing people, for whatever reason, is not.

I will fully admit that my POV is America-centric. It's what I know best. Even though I'm Canadian, I know Canada far less. We don't bully our way into the news with our excesses so often.

Vietnam is my generation's war. I sit in the veterans' chair on the 4th of July. I was never "on the run" as you put it. I was the last man arrested for the Vietnam draft.

Now that you bring it up, I have been long reflecting on the fact that my lifelong cause have all been failures, every one. Ever more countries have a draft, there are more wars and war crimes, logging and despoliation of nature are at a fever pitch before its all gone and, lastly, there's more censorship in the world than ever.

I did what my conscience demanded. I picked issues I thought I could win and I didn't. I am an abject failure. But at least I tried, I gave my whole heart to it, never backing down. That's more than most can say.

Now I'm in the sooner we go extinct the better camp. The mess is unfixable.

Edited May 10May 10 by unblocktheplanet
add

They estimate Russia's lost as many as 350,000 soldiers so far in this rather insane war, and one wonders whether the actual figure is perhaps higher. Does Putin care? It is very likely that this crazed psychopath does not care one iota.

There's probably a good reason why there's so many young Russians here in Thailand right now.

15 hours ago, Roadsternut said:

The VNAF dropped the munition in that incident. That is an historical fact, no matter how much you wish to racially dismiss the role of the South Vietnamese in their essentially civil war. The Vietnamese pilot lives in the US.

I've some reference you being a Holy Joe, a Quaker or something. Surprised you haven't read the accounts of John Plummer's claims. I'm surprised because he was a Holy Joe as well, and I thought your guys all stuck together because of God and whatnot. But I'll take back the claims of Plummer, a drunkard Methodist minister. Seems he might have been confused as to what happened. But nonetheless, sure you were aware of his 1996 claims with respect to the photograph?

https://catholicphilly.com/2013/11/news/national-news/vietnamese-bombing-survivor-came-from-war-now-preaches-peace/

There are differing accounts

https://www.military-history.us/2013/02/truth-in-education-and-the-vietnam-war/

https://digitaljournalist.org/issue0008/ng5.htm

For someone who writes for a living, you sometimes fail on the reading comprehension.

What I said:

What you said:

Same number.

Apologise for accusing me of not massively "deflating" (strange term to use) estimated Russian casualties.

What I did was dig in a bit more those numbers, but you didn't get that far, because you will were still itching to bitch about the Vietnamese girl. You didn't get to the bit where I stated seriously wounded. Or maybe you think a twisted ankle is as serious as a blown off leg.

1.2 million casualties does not mean 1.2 million men out of the war.

It means of that 1.2 million, some are missing, most likely dead.

It means of that 1.2 million, some are known to be dead, bodies recovered and recorded, or had died subsequently of wounds.

It means of that 1.2 million, some are wounded, and maimed, never to return to service

It means of that 1.2 million, some were wounded, patched up and sent back in.

Now, there might be some sympathy for these Russian troops. But the reality; in WW2, 50-60% of Allied troops who were wounded were patched up and sent back into the fight. Around 30% of Allied troops in WW2 were wounded at some point. At any one time, 5-15% were walking wounded; not taken off the line, bandaged, told to get on with it.

When you copy paste results from AI, its best to check the sources. Mark Rutte said, on January 13, 2026, that NATO is estimating that up to 25,000 Russians are being killed per month (he actually said 20,000 to 25,000 per month). That doesn't mean that 25,000 Russians have been killed every month since the conflict started. The war has waxed and waned over the years.

The implication from NATO (Rutte hasn't shared the model) doesn't stand u to scrutiny. 25,000 per year equates to 300,000 dead. The number of Russian troops deplyed to Ukraine is about 400,000 to 600,000 per year.

RUSI 2024 of Russian deployment:

https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/russian-military-objectives-and-capacity-ukraine-through-2024?wpappninja_v=vjphqnyzz&utm_source=chatgpt.com

Institute for the Study of War

https://bcfausa.org/institute-for-the-study-of-war-russia-deploys-620000-troops-in-ukraine-and-kursk-an-increase-of-40000-from-december/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Ukrainian sources are suggesting 700,000.

An Army suffering 50% dead and still being combat effective is simply not credible. Bit you have never been in uniform, so how would you know.

2022 saw KIA per month ranging from 8000 to 15,000, highest during the invasion. WIA, which will comprise major injuries and minor injuries, about 25-45,000. The war was quite kinetic at this stage.

2023 saw KIA per month ranging from 6000 to 15,000, picking up at the end of the year with the Adiivika offensive. WIA, which will comprise major injuries and minor injuries, about 25-45,000. Moving to a grinding war, and seasonal offences.

2024 saw KIA per month ranging from 7000 to 15,000, peaking with the Adiivika offensive, when the US shut down Ukraine's intel feed. WIA, which will comprise major injuries and minor injuries, about 25-45,000

2025 saw KIA per month ranging from 6000 to 15,000 but getting more into the 15,000 range more frequently as the Russians throw more troops into the fight. WIA, which will comprise major injuries and minor injuries, about 25-45,000

2026 so far is much the same.

The NATO estimates will come from Abbeywood. Knowing those guys as I do, their estimates will always be quite conservative. Rutte, a former politician, I think misspoke, and you have not employed enough critical thinking. 25,000 combined KIA/WIA would fit with lower estimates.

Thank you for all these stats. You're right, I'm not a military analyst, likely few of whom who have ever been in uniform. The best part of the Trump administration is restoring the name, Dept of War.

But I'm not sure of your conclusions. Are you saying Russia has lost 50% and therefore hasn't a chance of subduing Ukraine?

It's quite remarkable a source cited here calls the napalming of that village "accidental". No wonder there's so much PTSD among vets.

At the time, there were reports the US was in Vietnam because they have (had?) the world's largest supply of tungsten.

V-N was a proxy war in which the Vietnamese were the victims. Just like Korea, left to their own devices, those Godless Commies would have taken over. They've done a terrific job of remaking Vietnam (if one can ignore human rights). Maybe both Koreas would be as prosperous today.

Thank you esp for the story of John Plummer, who ordered the airstrike. The world needs more forgiveness.