Letter To Mp Regarding Fiasco Over Settlement Visa

[Boothy]

Here's a letter I am drafting to my local MP, (CC the British Embassy and UKVAC) regarding the refusal and subsequent lack of response to our appeal... I've hit a brick wall towards the end as it is obviously quite emotionally tiring as well as physically. Any help, pointers will be appreciated.

I have asterixed any personal information.

To The Right Honourable Andrew Murray Burnham MP.

I am writing to you concerning a number of grievances I have over the manner and on occasion complete incompetence my fiancee's settlement visa has been handled by various departments representing the British Government. In writing this I hope the issues raised may help to bring some changes to an obviously maligned system and ultimately bring a favourable resolution to my own, my and my unborn child's unenviable situation.

The matter is presented in chronological order to convey exactly what happened to us as we have journeyed through the application process which ultimately leads to me writing letter to you, my representative at the British Houses of Parliament.

On 27th March 2007 my girlfriend submitted her settlement visa application to the UK Visa Application Centre, Bangkok. Whilst waiting for the office to open we were approached by a Bangkok UKVAC employee outside who asked to look at the photograph on our visa application. We were informed that the photo's background wasn't acceptable and then charged 250 Thai baht to have a photograph of my girlfriend taken against a white background as opposed to the aqua background we had on our own photograph. According to the VAF2 Settlement (application) Form it clearly states the photo should be against an evenly lit and plain light background. If it should be taken against a white background it should say this on the application form. Whilst this is a relatively trivial matter, when every person who makes a UK visa application from Thailand is charged for another photograph after they had already had paid for and had one taken in accordance with directions made on the UKVAC application form it doesn't inspire confidence in the process as a whole and does suggest that from the outset one is being conned.

Later in the afternoon after we had submitted our application at about 4pm we received a phone call from the Bangkok UKVAC to reconfirm how much money we had paid for our application. At the time, I found this bewildering but as events unfolded it became a relatively small and excusable hiccup in the least, but nevertheless illustrated an obvious lack of professionalism regarding UKVAC Bangkok.

A few weeks later on 4th April we received a phone call from UKVAC to advise that my girlfriend had an invitation to an interview at the British Embassy, Bangkok. The caller said my girlfriend needed to take some other information to the interview but she didn't understand what the caller was trying to convey and so gave the phone to me. I asked what the caller what was required of my girlfriend to take to the interview, my Thai is good but it isn't completely fluent so I therefore asked him to tell me in English, the caller responded with what sounded like 'celery', to which I worked out was salary. We had to finish the phone call with UKVAC as we couldn't understand what they wanted and later called the British Embassy to speak with an English speaker (a rare occurrence as there only ever seems to a native speaker of English available in the visa section during a very limited time spot after lunch on weekdays if one is fortuitous) and ascertain what was required.

We were on holiday at the time of the phone call from UKVAC and were and told to visit them in Bangkok to pick up our letter of invitation, when we picked it up from the UKVAC we noticed, written at the bottom of the letter:

'at the time of the interview the applicant has been requested to provide the following documents; Sponsor's salary slips from when last worked in UK in 2006 (if no longer available, confirmation of monthly salary and employment from employer), written explanation from sponsor of money paid into UK account while (sic) sponsor in Thailand'.

Why didn't the caller from UKVAC just read this out? Why are the British Government employing agencies that inevitably come into contact with English speakers who employ staff to make important and technical calls that can't speak English, or seemingly use common sense for that matter?

Despite the problems with UKVAC on receiving this I felt optimistic that our visa application was being considered properly and felt that if we could provide any kind of original documentation from (Bonafide Insurance Co.), my previous employer and prospective re-employer, to prove they used to employ me then we would receive the settlement visa dependent on the outcome of my girlfriend's interview. I therefore contacted my Mum in the UK and asked her to send any wage slips she could find from the period when I was at home and contacted (

Bonafide Insurance Co.)

to ask them to confirm the dates of my employment. My Mum found two original wage slips from (Bonafide Insurance Co.) and they sent me a letter confirming and dating my prior employment with them.

All of the above items were submitted at the interview with a letter from my Dad explaining he had given me 1500 pounds (sterling) to help me support myself and my girlfriend in the UK when we returned until I secured employment. I had also previously enclosed a copy of email correspondence between myself and (Bonafide Insurance Co.) where I had requested they consider letting me have my old post and their response asking me to come in for a chat when I got home. I didn't want to pressure (Bonafide Insurance Co.) into making me an official letter of employment in case the visa wasn't granted and this caused problems with the company's plans. If I had no chance of having my old job back why would the email correspondence appear so positive?

On the 25th April 2007 my girlfriend attended her interview at the British Embassy, Bangkok. After about two hours the visa was refused, my girlfriend was obviously upset, this wasn't just because the visa had been rejected but because of the manner she was dealt with by the Entry Clearance Officer and the line of questioning to which she was subjected. By way of example she was asked; why didn't she want to have a Laotion boyfriend, on the first night after we met where did we go and what did we do, when my girlfriend responded that she went back to my room the interviewer looked at the translator and rolled her eyes. Looking at the notes (posted on the internet) regarding how Entry Clearance Officers are instructed to conduct the interview, I can see this line of questioning is somewhat questionable and can be construed as offensive and discriminatory.

Nevertheless the visa application had been rejected and the reasons for this were all concerned with my apparent lack of ability to support my girlfriend in the UK. Not one issue about my girlfriend or our relationship was mentioned in the reasons for the rejection. Therefore why was she asked such questions and more importantly what was the point of the having the interview if the reasons for rejecting the claim were based on the paperwork already submitted? Why was the legitimacy of (Bonafide Insurance Co), as a real and actual trading company contested when we supplied two original wage slips from this company in the interview? If, this was to be contested when we were asked for more information, why wasn't actual letter headed paper specifically insisted upon, as it was obvious from the initial claim that I had never presented anything on letter headed paper from (Bonafide Insurance Co.), if any correspondence between myself and (Bonafide Insurance Co.)was suspected to be contrived (when in actuality it wasn't) then why wasn't this brought to out attention when we had an opportunity to prove our case?

The Notice of Immigration Decision which explains why the visa was rejected, raises the issue of whether (Bonafide Insurance Co.) are an actual and real trading company, ironically your colleague, the Right Honourable Ian McCartney opened the premises from where they trade and I'm sure a quick internet search for them would have cast aside any doubts as to their legitimacy. It says that the letters I presented were not on letter headed paper, this is because nearly everything communicated between Thailand and England was by email and there was insufficient time between the request of confirmation of my salary and the date of the interview to have original copies sent from England, these however are now in my possession. It says that the ECO is not satisfied as to who owns or who resides at the house where I proposed to stay until I sought our own accommodation, or who resides there at present but I enclosed a copy of the title deeds and a copy of the HM Land Registry, certificate of transfer of whole title, transferring the property from my Mother and Father solely to my Mother as part of their divorce settlement. I also enclosed a letter from her saying she has sufficient space at her house and two utility bills in her name to show she resides there. I had provided overwhelming proof that my family and I are in a position to support ourselves in the UK. The reasons the claim was rejected were false. I find it astonishing that one can pay 300 pounds (sterling, I note now 500 pounds sterling) for a 'service' such as this and not so much as expect the government handling the matter to run a quick internet search on an insurance co. an applicant says he's going to work for, or to email the person the applicant says he is going to source work from or double check an address they say the are going to reside at. What does the fee pay for exactly? Clearly nothing at all to do with the application itself.

I note the disclaimer at the bottom of the rejection: In any UK visa application, the onus rests with the applicant to satisfy the Entry Clearance Officer (ECO) that they meet all the relevant criteria of the Immigration Rules. Although offers of support from a sponsor in the UK are, of course, taken into account, they do not outweigh the responsibility of the applicant to satisfy the ECO as to their own intentions… However you are entitled to appeal this decision under section 82(1) of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002. If you do so, your appeal will be dealt with in the United Kingdom.

And so we appealed, we sent off our appeal on the form handed to us at the end of my girlfriend's interview and enclose a copy of it with this letter to you. We first sent the appeal by recorded delivery from Bangkok on 14

^th

May 2007 and then emailed

[email protected]

on 28

^th

May 2007, this is a copy of the email we sent:

Dear Sir/Madam

My name is ********, I have no surname, I am of Lao nationality. I posted an appeal to you by recorded delivery from Kasetsart University Post Office Bangkok on the 14th May 2007. To date I have had no confirmation the letter has been received and no acknowledgment of it from you. I am obviously concerned that you may not have received our correspondence because the deadline to appeal passed on 23rd May.

Can you please advise if it is with you?

The application was for a settlement visa was rejected out of your Bangkok Embassy, the date of service was 25/4/2007 the post reference number is /********, my date of birth is ******, my address is *********************************************** Bangkok, 10900 THAILAND.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Regards

**************

This is a copy of the first unsatisfactory response we received, which asked for the information that you can see we already provided:

Our ref: KB AIT Appeal number:

Dear ************

RE: ***********- Appellant

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, we are unable to deal with your request at this time because we can not supply information to an email address that is not in the name of the appellant or someone who is on our database as a party to the appeal. This reflects our legal obligation under the Data Protection Act.

If you are the appellant and have sent this message from an email account which is not in your name please submit your original request to us by email along with the following information. This will allow us to verify your details against our records and respond to your enquiry:

1.

Your full name (including any aliases), Date of Birth and Nationality;

2.

Appeal number;

3.

The type of appeal you are enquiring about (e.g. Visit Visa/ Immigration);

4.

Where and when the appeal was lodged;

5.

Date when the application was refused;

6.

Home Office or Embassy Reference;

We will not be able to deal with your request if the information provided is not consistent with our records. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause but this is to ensure the security of your appeal.

Kind regards

Email Correspondence Section

And so we responded the next day:

Dear Sir or Madam

Thank you for your email.

I have already provided you with the information you have requested in my first email to you.

This is my own email account and you should already be aware of it as it was given with my appeal.

To conclude

Your full name: (including any aliases), Date of Birth and Nationality; *********

I have no surname and the only alias I have is with this email address which is my nickname and fiance's Surname combined **********

Date of Birth:

*********

Nationality:

Laotion (Laos)

Appeal number:

I don't have an appeal number because I am checking to see if you have received my appeal.

> The type of appeal you are enquiring about:

Settlement Visa

> Where and when the appeal was lodged;

Appeal was sent by post to your address in Loughborough from Bangkok on 14th May 2007

> Date when the application was refused;

application was refused out of Bangkok on 25th April 2007

> Home Office or Embassy Reference:

The post reference given at Bangkok British Embassy was /********

Regards

On 15

^th

June 2007 we received this, quite a bizarre answer considering we told the appeal centre in our emails that we had sent the appeal direct to them, lest I write about the level of grammar and spelling:

Our ref:CP AIT Appeal Number:Unknown

Dear Sir

Thank you for your email.

From the information you have provided it has not been possible to find the appeal on our systems. As you recently submitted your appeal at the British Embassy it is possible that your appeal documents have not yet been received by us.

The length of time it takes for an appeal to reach the us

(sic)

from British Embassies can vary. If you lodged your appeal at the British Embassie

(sic)

you may wish to contact them to find out if, or when, your appeal was sent to us.

When we receive your appeal confirmation of this, in the form of a written notice (called a Notice of Pending Appeal, AIT11) will be sent to you.

Regards, E-mail Correspondence Section

In view of this worrying response we decided to send our appeal again (recorded delivery, post office receipt attached) and just over two weeks later sent this email on 3

^rd

July.

Dear Sir or Madam,

I re-sent my appeal to you over two weeks ago, can you please confirm whether you have now received it? Please find all the information you require in accordance with the details of our application and previous emails to you below.

Redards

Again, we received a standard response on 11

^th

July 2007:

Our ref: AP Your appeal number:

Dear Sir

Thank you for your email.

I could not locate your file which indicates to me that an appeal has not yet been lodged. We have got a back log of appeals so I would advise you to get in touch again in 3 weeks to double check.

Kind regards

Email Correspondence section

And so we wrote again after a three weeks wait on 9

^th

August:

Dear Sir or Madam,

With regards to the ongoing strand below, can you please advise whether you have now received our appeal and processed its information on your computer system?

We look forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Finally we received this on the 14

^th

August which leads to us close to giving up hope:

Our ref: NM Your appeal number: N/A

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your email.

All appeals received by us are created within 5 working days of receipt. Your letter email states that an appeal was lodged at the AIT Loughborough on 14

^th

May, however no appeal has been created on our systems. Therefore this appeal may have been received incomplete.

We can only accept appeals on completed appeal forms. Details of how to appeal and a relevant appeal form should have been included with the notice of decision. You may wish to re-send your appeal, ensuring that it is fully and accurately completed. The AIT-2 form and guidance notes, which provides information on how to appeal, can be accessed via our website:

www.ait.gov.uk

. Please provide detailed reasons for this appeal being out of time along with evidence of how and when the original appeal was submitted.

Completed appeal forms should be sent to:

Asylum and Immigration Tribunal

PO Box

7866

Loughborough

LE11 2XZ

or by fax to 01509 221 699

Kind regards

Email Correspondence section

In summing up you can see that this has been a very arduous and often futile pursuit, I am very concerned about the future of my family if anything would happen to me. Whilst my unborn son will have access to Britain by having a right to a British passport as a British citizen, it is quite conceivable that he will not be able to visit the country of his father's origin and his grandparents accompanied by his mother except with a tourist visa? How is this acceptable? Furthermore how can the British government take quite a considerable amount of money from a family and give them nothing back in return, not even the right to an appeal, or not at least a workable right to an appeal (it seems).

Can anybody help?

Edited August 31, 2007 by Boothy

[JimsKnight]

Those are hard lines man. The MP or the MPs leader may fire a broadside at them, possibly via PMs question time (if you're lucky.)

[ratchabuild]

Those are hard lines man. The MP or the MPs leader may fire a broadside at them, possibly via PMs question time (if you're lucky.)

Just a few points use them or ignore them. Get someone to proof read it before you send it in. Number all points, para by para. Dont put more than one point in a para. It makes it easier to use as a working doc and basis of a complaint. You can use chron or structure arguments from weak to strong after putting the stronest at the beginning and repeating it at the end, other wise you start with a relatively trivial complaint at the beginning. If you do use it stress it as an indicator of sloppy and bad practice. Get all friends and extended family who are affected by loss of seeing their grandson, nephew, cousin whatevr your child will be to them. To write to their own constituency MP with a complaint which is specific to them....ie deprived of seeing baby etc. that way more MPs are involved and case is stronger. You can draw up proforma letter if you want and circulate it to affected family and friends, changing only the relationship to reflect their particular circumstances.

As to the technical grounds sorry I cannot help but I wish you much luck.

[Jersey_UK]

Boothy

Having re-read my post below, it perhaps does not come accross quite as constructive as it is meant to be. Sorry .......obviously I am not and nor do I claim to be any sort of "Visa Expert" (so treat what I wrote with the merit it deserves).........No doubt those who actually know stuff will be along later ..........

Firstly, I thought a "Fiance Visa" was different from a "Settlement Visa" ?? (FV first then SV when in the UK, after the marriage and then she can work?).

Secondly, I think you would be better off re-directing your efforts into another application (or an Appeal on your missing (??)Appeal).........of course the bureaucratic <deleted> ups are not nice, but it is the Govt and IMO / IME therefore to be expected (plus I beleive that around April time was when they started with the outsourcing of the Visa's - so whether or not things have actually now improved, they will probably claim that things have since settled down and now got better.............if the MP ever gets that far).

From my reading of your letter you simply did not give them enough to grant the Visa. On the facts you have presented, I would say that the biggest problem was that you had no job and no firm job offer and only limited £££ resources. The ECO is probably only too aware that stuff gets put into E-mail that would never make it onto letter headed paper - because essentially E-mails "do not count" especially once they have the long winded Disclaimer that I am sure your well known Insurance Company included on the bottom of the e-mails. Maybe a firm offer on headed paper would have been accepted or at least been checked as bona fide (but to be honest I am not sure they actually do that).

Possibly also during the interview the ECO got a bad vibe / had some "opinions" and then "injected" the desired result into the paperwork using whatever actual basis could be justified under the rules.

The accomadation thing does just seem plain wrong however, but coupled with the no job (or firm offer) and dressed up with some doubt on the possible employer probably made the rejection easy to process within the Embassy.

I think you may also be getting hung up on the fact you feel as you are a British Citizen with a child who will also be a British Citizen that the Mother should therefore be entitled to hit the UK - under current rules she is not entitled. (FWIW My opinion on this is probably not that far different from your own - but neither of us sets the rules, nor interprets them ).

[the gent]

Boothy,

Having read your account one has great sympathy for you and the predicament in which you now find yourself.

The test by which decisions are meant to be made by the visa section is quite simple in that in assessing whether or not you meet the criteria set out in the immigration rules they are required to consider evidence that would support your application " on the balance of probability ". It seems to me that they are satisfied that your relationship is both enduring and genuine but you fall down on the ability to support yourselves without recourse to public funds. This is quite tenuous as grounds for refusal and most appeals to the AIT overturn such refusals since independent examination of the evidence that was available, or could have been reasonably expected to have been available at the time of the decision, generally finds that the test, seldom understood by the average visa officer, is met. Most current visa officers are either a little bit stupid or so inexperienced as to be incompetent and what passes for management simply compounds their inability to maintain any acceptable standard worthy of the legislation it purports to serve.

Your letter as it stands is far too long and lacks sufficient focus to capture the attention of someone who may, or may not, be able to assist you.

It strikes me that your case could benefit from a little professional care. This could be provided by any OISC registered practitioner at quite reasonable rates.

The Scouser is both a pro bono adviser on this forum and earns a crust in his own right. I suggest you get in contact and take it from there. The AIT bureaucracy, whilst suffering from a blight afflicting most UK organisations, is generally not malicious and a well aimed kick from a professional should provide some reassurance that your case will be processed according to the law.

A long road faces you but with appropriate guidance you will undoubtedly succeed.

Keep the faith.

[Mahout Angrit]

Whilst my unborn son will have access to Britain by having a right to a British passport as a British citizen, it is quite conceivable that he will not be able to visit the country of his father's origin and his grandparents accompanied by his mother except with a tourist visa? How is this acceptable?

This is the normal way for many mothers to visit UK with their child if they are living outside the UK.Provided the mothers qualifies, a tourist visa is merely a formality and the acceptable way for so many.

Your son will also be Laosian. Will you be able to take your son to visit the country of his mothers origin and his grandparents with anything different to a tourist visa? In fact will you even be able to go there as a family and or get your child a Laos passport?

In your previous posts, if I remember correctly, it was the general opinion of the forum, as well as now from other contributers above that your application for a settlement visa for your girlfriend was weak. An appeal may only show that the ECO made a correct decision.

IMHO I think you will have as much success (in getting the visa you want) by sending that letter to your MP as you would by writing to your g/f's Laos MP to complain about their policy of their citizens fraternizing with aliens and by requesting your right to live there just simply because your girlfriend is a citizen.

At least if you want to live in Britain as a family you will be allowed to but you must first prove that you are capable of supporting them there without the recourse to public funds Thousands have done it before you but you will need to do a bit more than crying 'help' to Mum, Dad, ex employer and British government.

Although I understand there may have been some inappropriate questions put to your g/f and some ineffecient administration by the Appeals office you should forget it and focus on what you really want and that is to get your family living in UK.

[simon43]

My (hard) comment re your letter:

Your MP will bin it after reading the 1st few lines. The letter is far too long. You need to drastically reduce the length. Your should give a brief summary of your complaint in the opening lines. You can always attach the lengthy explanations on a separate sheet, (if your MP is sufficiently interested from your letter to read said attachment).

Simon

[erikr_]

it seems you fell pray to the touts outside the ukvac office as photo at ukvac is I believe something like 30 or 40 baht

I would not be surprised if those two parties are involved and therefore the actual process is unclear.

If you have send it through recorded delivery you should have confirmation of receipt.

I guess your best bet is indeed to put your energy in a new application

[Fun2Fun]

It would drastically improve your chances of getting the visa for you gf, if you were to get a job or atleast a verifiable job offer before sending a new application.

[Charma]

I agree with Simon43. You need to catch his attention in the first paragraph. Make this opening your personal plea for his help and merely outline what the situation is and what it means to you and your family. MP's are very busy people and he will not have time to go through the details at first read. Win him over first, then he (or his secretary) may look into it further.

I would also suggest you get help from Scouser and find the quickest way to progress this matter, as the complaint route might not be the best.

[teacher]

It would drastically improve your chances of getting the visa for you gf, if you were to get a job or atleast a verifiable job offer before sending a new application.

APPLY AGAIN, but this time remember!!!!!!!!!!

WHAT EVER YOU SAY YOU WILL NEED TO PROVE WITH HARD EVIDENCE.

1. you do need confirmation that you have a job offer in writing from your companyon their ORIGINAL letter head posted to you.

2. Log on to www.companieshouse.co.uk locate the company and print the information off. Or go to Yellowpages.co.uk and see if they are there.

3. You say your girlfriend so you are intending to marry when in the uk? Tell your parents to go to the local registray office and book the wedding usually 30 quid deposit is all that is needed.

4. where will you live, if mothers house then tell her to take some photos of the house and title deeds etc to show there is enough room for you and your family to stay with them. Get your parents to write a letter to invite you to staywith them.

If you are going to rent then you will need to get your parents to get your tenancy agreement to you.

5. Get married here first.

These are just a few pointers you should be looking at i can name many more things you could do to

improve your chances. if you go about it the right way you will achieve.

[roygsd]

Hi,

I am sorry to say that it is unlikely that your appeal will be successful, at the end of the day they will stick to their guns by pointing out the onus is on the applicant to provide suitable proof/documentation which with respect you appear to admit.

Please understand, the people processing these applications are not there to ensure the applicant makes a successful application just to make sure the information provided with the application is sufficient for their purposes.

I am sympathetic and dont mean to be harsh but rather than beat yourself up and still end up back at the starting line again, I think you should seriously consider marrying the lady in Thailand and then apply for the settlement visa.

Of course before you apply you need to make sure that you dont give them the opportunity to turn you down again so cover all the bases and provide as much information as possible better to go overboard on the written confirmation of facts than to risk another rejection.

Hope to hear you get the visa sooner rather than later.

RoyGSD

[kevc]

I agree with Mahout Angrit, you need to be seen to be able to support yourself and your girlfriend without the help of Mummy and Daddy, sorry no offence meant but thats how it comes across in your letter. I don't think complaining will get you anywhere, after all you had no job, no home of your own, and you were relying on your father to support both of you, you would have been better off waiting till all your paperwork was prepared before applying.

I hope all goes well for you because I know how devestated I would have been had our application all those years ago had been refused.