There are several reasons the primary one is this:

Section 143 Thailand Penal Code -- Whoever, demanding, accepting or agreeing to accept a property or any other benefit for himself or the other person as a return for inducting or having induced, by dishonest or unlawful means, or by using his influence, any official ... to exercise or not to exercise any of his functions, which is advantageous or disadvantageous to any person, shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding five years or fine not exceeding ten thousand Baht, or both.

NB So the point at which the agent says that an IMM officer has the right of 'discretion' to waive the Ministerial Order 800K baht deposit rules for retirement extension, but it is your interaction with me, the agent, that will influence as to whether the IMM officer will exercise his/her 'discretion' or not, the above is in violation.

Edited August 19Aug 19 by JerryM

Anyone with a moderately functioning brain knows this process, at its core, is illegal.

I have real mixed feelings about it. I went to the bother to put the 800k baht in a bank and let it basically rot for the privilege of staying here with a clear conscience. I am mildly resentful at those who use agents. On the other hand, just about all of my friends of various nations use an agent and it would be tough to see them go. They've been completely decent expats, enjoying their lives in the LOS, they just don't have the scratch to waste.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

18 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

They've been completely decent expats, enjoying their lives in the LOS, they just don't have the scratch to waste.

The Immigration office/officer in the province where your friends live can waive the 800K baht requirement for "legitimate reason" any time they want.

The price is 1900 baht (2000 baht max.)

Edited August 19Aug 19 by JerryM

1 hour ago, JerryM said:

The Immigration office/officer in the province where your friends live can waive the 800K baht requirement for "legitimate reason" any time they want.

The price is 1900 baht (2000 baht max.)

Do you personally know anyone who has gotten away with this? I can't believe it could be widespread policy. The money agents get and the kickbacks to immigration officers would dry up. Nah, not buying it.

6 minutes ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Do you personally know anyone who has gotten away with this? I can't believe it could be widespread policy. The money agents get and the kickbacks to immigration officers would dry up. Nah, not buying it.

No. But that is the law. I am just posting about the Immigration Act, Ministerial Order, the Criminal statutes and the Anti-Corruption Act

Discussions as to how to circumvent the law is the purview of the VISA Forum.

BTW Section 143 of Criminal Code in the OP was written in 1957 but, as regards the Visa Agents and their 'covering' your finances, it could have been written yesterday.

Edited August 20Aug 20 by JerryM

The assumption of the OP is that all agents fudge the 800K.

Most of the guys I know that use agents have the requisite funds properly parked, but don't like waiting in queues or risking getting knocked back because they forgot this year's paperwork requirement. Which is sometimes different than last year's paperwork required.

When I worked in LOS, my company hired agents for all of us. It was all legitimate. But they figured (correctly) they'd rather have us doing our jobs than futzing with the vagaries of immigration. All we had to do was show up at the appointed time, sit where the agent told us to sit, stand up and wave when the IO wanted to see who we were, then sign a document or 2. The agent had prepared and carried a thick file of the necessary documents, not us.

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

Most of the guys I know that use agents have the requisite funds properly parked, but don't like waiting in queues or risking getting knocked back because they forgot this year's paperwork requirement. Which is sometimes different than last year's paperwork required.

That is not a violation of the criminal code Section 143 where an agent 'covers' the finances as is the popular euphemism.

4 minutes ago, JerryM said:

That is not a violation of the criminal code Section 143 where an agent 'covers' the finances as is the popular euphemism.

That's my point. The title insinuates that using a visa agent is illegal.

1 minute ago, impulse said:

That's my point. The title insinuates that using a visa agent is illegal.

You can only put so much in a title and the waiving of the apply in person requirement in the TM7 does not seem to me tantamount to a structure.

I believe this is why some Banks are "Locking" the funds for X months.

Government is Cracking down on the bypassing financial requirements by doing the old bank transfer in/transfer out method.

Banks are additionally monitoring these large transactions because of scammers and mule accounts.

I know people who meet All the requirements but just don't want to hassle with all the paperwork, waiting in queues and pay an Agent for the convenience.

No telling how the courts may interpret people using an Agent just for convenience when they meet all the legal requirements. Hopefully they see it as acceptable. That the agent is just assisting those people with correctly filling out the forms and making sure they have all the required documents.

At least for now the 'apply in person' is not part of the 'qualifications' subject to the current ministerial order.

15 minutes ago, J Branche said:

I believe this is why some Banks are "Locking" the funds for X months.

Government is Cracking down on the bypassing financial requirements by doing the old bank transfer in/transfer out method.

Banks are additionally monitoring these large transactions because of scammers and mule accounts.

In a nutshell... It's money laundering etc...

800k in 800k out.

Same 800k used multiple time multiple of people, rinse and repeat !!

Edited August 20Aug 20 by dayo202

Check with Big Joke, he once agreed with you...🤣🚫

Obvious theres 2 version why using an agent ...

... simple convenience, or hand holding if needed

... skirting the financials, and illegal, as supports corruption.

If using for the latter, STFU, and stop complaining about TH, as corruption is what keeps it a 3rd world country.

Not that there's anything wrong with being a 3rd world country, and has it's advantages 😁

8 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Check with Big Joke, he once agreed with you...🤣🚫

There is nothing to agree with or not agree. It is there in print in the Penal Code.

As I said above, if you want to discuss how to circumvent the code, you can do that in the VISA forum.

Edited August 20Aug 20 by JerryM

so if you use a nominee to 'Own land" you are a criminal but using an agent to extend your visa is ok?

Funny how some people change their mind when it is convenient to do so.

I know a lot of people who do not have enough income to stay here but have been using the

agent way for many years. Criminals right?

I imagine a lot of people who are screaming "criminal " and have been gloating about the government cracking down on this nominee use are now worried about the use of agents.

I had to use the agents way once because of circumstances and i was happy i could,other wize i would have had to leave here.

9 minutes ago, jvs said:

I know a lot of people who do not have enough income to stay here but have been using the agent way for many years. Criminals right?

You can discuss why it is OK to circumvent the law on the VISA forum.

1 hour ago, impulse said:

The assumption of the OP is that all agents fudge the 800K.

Most of the guys I know that use agents have the requisite funds properly parked, but don't like waiting in queues or risking getting knocked back because they forgot this year's paperwork requirement. Which is sometimes different than last year's paperwork required.

When I worked in LOS, my company hired agents for all of us. It was all legitimate. But they figured (correctly) they'd rather have us doing our jobs than futzing with the vagaries of immigration. All we had to do was show up at the appointed time, sit where the agent told us to sit, stand up and wave when the IO wanted to see who we were, then sign a document or 2. The agent had prepared and carried a thick file of the necessary documents, not us.

My annual visa application takes about 1 hour in a "queue". I have never been knocked back in 20 years. Paying for an agent is madness.

Just now, henryford1958 said:

My annual visa application takes about 1 hour in a "queue". I have never been knocked back in 20 years. Paying for an agent is madness.

That's one opinion and I support you. Others are happy to pay, especially after they've been knocked back because they didn't have the yellow form or the pink form or the blue form or the photo of the wife and kids or... or... because they never needed it before. But this year, they do.

I'd add that not all offices are as friendly as others.

6 minutes ago, henryford1958 said:

My annual visa application takes about 1 hour in a "queue". I have never been knocked back in 20 years. Paying for an agent is madness.

Not sure about that. If in BKK, Phuket, Patts/Jomtien, then maybe an agent would be very handy. Although if using, I'd just need for the 'convenience', as meet the financials, and all requirements.

My Q at Imm is about 1 hour +/-, so no need for an agent, and never turned away for something silly, or even if missing something. Missing a page from bank one time, and Imm Officer called and had sent to him while we were there. Customer service +, as we're 100 km away from Imm, so that was nice, instead of, come back later.

5 hours ago, JerryM said:

So the point at which the agent says that an IMM officer has the right of 'discretion' to waive the Ministerial Order 800K baht deposit rules for retirement extension, but it is your interaction with me, the agent, that will influence as to whether the IMM officer will exercise his/her 'discretion' or not, the above is in violation.

All involved including the individual IO’s are in violation.

5 hours ago, JerryM said:

Why is the visa agent structure for extension illegal

As for using the funds scheme, it is illegal because it constitutes fraud and a misrepresentation of financial means to Thai

Immigration laws and authorities.

Edited August 20Aug 20 by novacova

Many guests/visitors to Thailand seem to think that Imm. works for them. This is not the case.

My other take away for numerous threads on the subject is, don't live 100kms from the nearest Imm. office.

8 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Many guests/visitors to Thailand seem to think that Imm. works for them. This is not the case.

They get paid 1900฿ a year to work on putting an extension stamp in my pp, and they even get a bonus when they work on putting a multi entry stamp in it.

Edited August 20Aug 20 by novacova

1 hour ago, JerryM said:

There is nothing to agree with or not agree. It is there in print in the Penal Code.

As I said above, if you want to discuss how to circumvent the code, you can do that in the VISA forum.

Dumb response, are you saying Big J was not a political topic,?? Where's Jerry these days!

20 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Dumb response, are you saying Big J was not a political topic,?? Where's Jerry these days!

I posted there the penal code as regards an intermediary influencing officials.

You can discuss big joke all you want.

I said if you want to discuss how to circumvent the penal code including Section 144 on an individual bribing a public official you can do that on the VISA forum.

Edited August 20Aug 20 by JerryM

5 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Anyone with a moderately functioning brain knows this process, at its core, is illegal.

I have real mixed feelings about it. I went to the bother to put the 800k baht in a bank and let it basically rot for the privilege of staying here with a clear conscience. I am mildly resentful at those who use agents. On the other hand, just about all of my friends of various nations use an agent and it would be tough to see them go. They've been completely decent expats, enjoying their lives in the LOS, they just don't have the scratch to waste.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't mind the guys who can't afford to put 800K in the bank & are maybe bringing over 50K per month to live on so can't go down the income route either, it's the ones who crow about how they can easily afford to put the money in the bank but don't because they get more interest on the money back home.

They obviously have a point but if you're in a position where you're able to follow the rules why wouldn't you just follow them or go somewhere else where the rules are to your liking.

Edited August 20Aug 20 by SamSpade

In some cases once you are on the agent's hook you can't get off.

90 day reports have to go through them Then if you want to one day go legit it isn't unknown for Imm. wishing to see bank statement for the past , say, 5 years to check you had the funds you said.

1 hour ago, henryford1958 said:

My annual visa application takes about 1 hour in a "queue". I have never been knocked back in 20 years. Paying for an agent is madness.

My #1 priority for what I spend my money on is to make my life easier.

I pay my agent 6,100 THB (It's 8,000 THB with the immigration fee) to do my Extensions for me, here's a few of the times where it's been more than worth the money...

1. 2nd extension, CW Bangkok, my Bankbook had consolidated entries in it, I'd never have known but my agent spotted it, walked me to a Bangkok Bank branch and explained exactly the statements I needed.

2. 4th extension, CW Bangkok, I wanted to do my extension 45 days early but I didn't know that at that time (Covid), they were only accepting extensions upto 3 days before the date it was due. No problem using an agent.

3. Last extension (couple of weeks back) I did it 56 days early (you can do upto 90 days early when you use an Agent) 2 days later I decided to do 3 months in Malayisa & 1 month in Vietnam (Tax reasons) at best I would have had to wait another 11-12 days before being able travel which would put my return too close to Christmas for my liking. Plus when I went to Jomtien Immigration the place was mobbed, probably a 2+ hour wait time, but I walked in, had my photo taken at the counter & walked out (< 30 seconds)... Wongamat - Bank - Agent - Immigration - Terminal 21 took me 2 hours & 15 minutes (a large part of that was taking the Baht bus from Jomtien to T21).

It works out at 508.50 THB per month, I know guys who spend twice that on cigarettes per week & you think I'm mad!

Edited August 20Aug 20 by SamSpade

18 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

They obviously have a point but if you're in a position where you're able to follow the rules why wouldn't you just follow them or go somewhere else where the rules are to your liking.

And it's not like the difference in interest on $13K or even $25K USD is going to make a significant difference in their quality of life.