Can Anyone Help A Pensioner?

[oldsailor35]

When she reaches pension age she can get an NI number, without going to the UK. They said this could be done purely to enable them to pay her a pension.

god bless the outstanding generosity of the selfless british taxpayer for services above and beyond.

i am sure that they will be most gratified to know that people who have never set foot in the british isles will be able to draw a pension , even as pensioners in the uk , some of whom have actually paid contributions and taxes , struggle to exist on the pittance paid out there as an excuse for a pension.

rule brittania.

And as a person who worked for many years in the UK from the age of 14 but immigrated to a certain country later in life, my pension is not indexed and remains what the current rate was back then. I suppose somebody has to pay for these wives.

Once again Rule Britannia !

[oldsailor35]

The UK pension system is not generous in my view but it would not make any difference to UK pensioners if 'foreign' wives were excluded.

The fundamental reason that the system is poor is that our govts (of both parties) adopted the pay as you go system for pensions,that is pensions are paid out of revenue received in NI and general taxation contributions from the people currently working.

When you pay NI none of your money is set aside for you to fund your pension in the future.

You will see if you get past the red tape that your NI contribution guarantees you absolutely nothing.No guarantee of any benefit in terms of pension arrangement,healthcare is given which is why Govt can change the age at which you can receive pension,the amount etc. as it wishes.

NI contributions are not ringfenced in anyway,they do not have to be used for pensions etc. and are in fact simply another tax which is added to the total treasury income.

Are you sure that this is the fact. I was told that pensions money is paid into a different fund than normal revenue and that there are billions of pounds in this fund just for pensions alone.

[rayw]

It has got to be morally wrong for anyone who has not lived in the UK and paid tax, even from Europe, to get anything. If You have lived in the UK then yes, you should be entitled to What you should get, but how far does it go,People leave the UK for what ever reasons if they still pay tax then they should be able to claim, If They live Abroad from the UK then they should be offered there pension to take with them. At the rate it was when they started to pay into it ,It amazes me when people just keep milking the system for every thing they can get,because the system is wrong.To me anyone who lives abroad has money or they would not be able to do just that.I know its there choice and they have probably worked to do it. they should be offed the choice of taking there pension lump sum or at a set rate.. The NHS was set up to treat people who where on the poverty line or below.Not to treat fat people or injury's caused by smoking or Drink related self inflicted Injures, Like fighting on a Saturday night, or falling over psst and getting injured. The same goes for Druggies,and health Tourist and car accidents. When are the people who stay in the UK and work here all our lives get anything. Why should people who have moved to Spain get heating allowance when OAP here in the UK are cold and cannot get any help.Also at what stage does your contributions run out, and what about the treatment that you have already had, does that not get payed for or is it for Indefinite.I am not against people who are entitled to what they should get, just people milking our System, and then the people who the whole thing was set up to help get nothing.Strong views maybe not right but maybe some truth.

Sorry for this long post but a lot I want to cover. Well first of all a lot of that above is correct but I strongly disagree with your statement "To me anyone who lives abroad has money or they would not be able to do just that." That is completely wrong for probably 90% of us expats as we live abroad BECAUSE we do not have much money and CANNOT AFFORD to live in countries like rip off Britain, but we are as you say "able to do just that" in many countries like Thailand where it is still much cheaper and affordable to live.

I have my private company pension which is fairly small by modern standards and just received my UK state pension when I hit 65 last year. My private pension is UK inflation linked now to CPI rather than RPI but I get no increase in my state pension which is fixed at the level it was when I hit 65. However for my private pension rules it makes no difference as any state pension inflation rise I did get would be offset and reduce my private pension annual inflation rise by the same amount so I get the same net increase whether living here in LoS or in the UK

There is NO married man's tax allowance in the UK these days and has not been for many years, there is for most normal folk though an "Age Allowance" of just under £3000 added to your UK income tax code so that helps quite a bit. You have to have paid a full NI stamp for at least 22 years under current rules to get a full single persons UK state pension, and this is fair and correct IMHO and in fact very generous as, what was not morally unfair, it used to be 44 years of stamp contributions only a few years back. If you have paid your contributions for less than 22 years then your pension is reduced as a direct proportion of how many years you have actually paid your NIS stamp. As I understand it, it makes no difference if you are married or not in respect of your state pension and there is no state widows pension that I know of for those reaching retirement age now and certainly and rightly not for wives who do not live and have never lived in the UK, and that is quite right IMHO. I married my long time Thai lady last year before I was 65 and spoke to the UK DWP (Dept Works and Pensions) and they confirmed it made no difference at all if I was married or not as there is no state widows pension, though they noted for their records that I am now remarried. My private pension is different as this is funded to allow for it, but it will pay her as a widow a 1/4 of my company pension for her life as long as she does not remarry ( it would be 1/2 for long term marriages but because I drew my private pension many years before I remarried last year it is only 1/4 as per the company pension rules but still that is a bloody good deal too). I retired early at age 57 taking a reduced pension, but at least retiring whilst I still have my faculties to benefit from enough years of well earned fun retirement. Once I knew I could retire and still manage to live okay (setting happy but modest goals) in a country like Thailand, I did so straight away as I always worked to live and never the other way around as some, who are to me, sad people do. A UK wife as I understand it now gets her own single persons pension based on whether she has paid her full stamp for more than the required 22 years else her pension is reduced accordingly. I believe that any that still do qualify for a married couples state pension have to have been over retirement age and been paying their NI stamp before a certain date I think way back in the late 80's. Please note I am not 100% sure of all the latest facts but believe this is basically correct from my fairly recent discussions with the UK DWP last year. You should directly contact the UK DWP yourself if you need the factual answers as it is really doubtful whether anyone here actually fully knows the current rules as to UK state pensions, so get it straight from the horses mouth and find out what applies to you personally.

Some more info (as someone mentioned it above for when they get it in 2012) is that they will pay your UK state pension to anywhere in the world at no cost to you BUT many countries (dare I say second or third world ones like Thailand) do not have the international banking arrangements and/or the trust of the western banks, so they can only send a state pension cheque through the post to your nominated Thai bank and I assure you this would usually take a long time to both arrive and then to clear at this end and there would be substantial Thai bank charges to pay too for clearing the cheque. Best way is to have it paid directly to your UK bank account where likely your private company pension goes monthly as well. By using a UK credit card to buy my groceries, petrol, clothes etc and even pay my telephone bills I can then just clear the card monthly in sterling from my UK banked pension at no cost at all and so easy with Internet banking. Cash I need here does cost quite a bit to draw out from the UK but one way around this is to offer to buy needed items on your credit card for friends who have cash or income here and they give you the Thai Baht to you in cash. Thus you incur no ATM fees nor expensive UK credit card cash withdrawal charges and high cash withdrawal interest rates, and the big plus is that you avoid paying the rip off UK banks a small fortune.

I personally think most of the UK rules on pensions and benefits are pretty fair and right overall, BUT one HUGE gripe for me and many other UK expats is that although I still pay UK income tax (fair enough as I was tax exempt from my pension contributions) and have paid my UK NI contributions all my 40 years of hard working life in the UK, I cannot simply get on a plane and go back to the UK and get needed free National Health treatment. I am told I have to stay back there for at least 6 months (way too bloody expensive to do that and maybe too late then for emergency needed treatment!!). By living here in Thailand in our retirement we all personally pay our day to day health costs here and thus save the UK a lot of money, especially considering the high cost of UK doctors and medical fees and the fact that as we get older frequent doctors visits are the norm too. I think it is right and morally sound that those UK National expats who have paid into the UK system all or most of their lives should be able to now in retirement get free UK national health service straight away if needed, not heard a single intelligent and justifiable reason why this is not the case. If I for instance needed heart surgery here it would cost me a fortune that I just could not afford even with my local medium cover BUPA health insurance. So why should I not be able to go back to the UK and rightly get this treatment on the National Health for which I have paid into all my hard working life and of course additionally still pay UK income tax too on my monthly pension and get nothing for it ?? This is so wrong and is born of the huge public misconception (fed by the UK crap gutter press) that expat retirees are all somehow wealthy which is so wrong and the complete opposite of the truth. Nearly all UK retired expats moved abroad as they have small incomes and/or pensions and thus could only barely exist on the bread line living in the cold and damp unhealthy UK. I agree fully that those who have not contributed should receive no benefits at all, either health nor pensions nor social security, as I also hate scroungers and free riding bleeders of the system.

We need to get UK expat pensioners to start a big campaign to redress this unfair anomaly in the UK National Health rules as it is so so so wrong. So lets start writing to our UK MPs and DHSS bosses as this really is unfair and sucks big time, whilst many legally admitted non Brit nationals come into the UK for 6 months and without paying a penny into the system are then entitled to the free National Health service that most retired expats have paid for all their lives. So so wrong and unfair and no morally sound justification for such mean rules either. Lets start acting and petitioning this outrageous situation. Oh sorry for the slight thread drift too

Edited January 9, 2011 by rayw

[transam]

It has got to be morally wrong for anyone who has not lived in the UK and paid tax, even from Europe, to get anything. If You have lived in the UK then yes, you should be entitled to What you should get, but how far does it go,People leave the UK for what ever reasons if they still pay tax then they should be able to claim, If They live Abroad from the UK then they should be offered there pension to take with them. At the rate it was when they started to pay into it ,It amazes me when people just keep milking the system for every thing they can get,because the system is wrong.To me anyone who lives abroad has money or they would not be able to do just that.I know its there choice and they have probably worked to do it. they should be offed the choice of taking there pension lump sum or at a set rate.. The NHS was set up to treat people who where on the poverty line or below.Not to treat fat people or injury's caused by smoking or Drink related self inflicted Injures, Like fighting on a Saturday night, or falling over psst and getting injured. The same goes for Druggies,and health Tourist and car accidents. When are the people who stay in the UK and work here all our lives get anything. Why should people who have moved to Spain get heating allowance when OAP here in the UK are cold and cannot get any help.Also at what stage does your contributions run out, and what about the treatment that you have already had, does that not get payed for or is it for Indefinite.I am not against people who are entitled to what they should get, just people milking our System, and then the people who the whole thing was set up to help get nothing.Strong views maybe not right but maybe some truth.

Sorry for this long post but a lot I want to cover. Well first of all a lot of that above is correct but I strongly disagree with your statement "To me anyone who lives abroad has money or they would not be able to do just that." That is completely wrong for probably 90% of us expats as we live abroad BECAUSE we do not have much money and CANNOT AFFORD to live in countries like rip off Britain, but we are as you say "able to do just that" in many countries like Thailand where it is still much cheaper and affordable to live.

I have my private company pension which is fairly small by modern standards and just received my UK state pension when I hit 65 last year. My private pension is UK inflation linked now to CPI rather than RPI but I get no increase in my state pension which is fixed at the level it was when I hit 65. However for my private pension rules it makes no difference as any state pension inflation rise I did get would be offset and reduce my private pension annual inflation rise by the same amount so I get the same net increase whether living here in LoS or in the UK

There is NO married man's tax allowance in the UK these days and has not been for many years, there is for most normal folk though an "Age Allowance" of just under £3000 added to your UK income tax code so that helps quite a bit. You have to have paid a full NI stamp for at least 22 years under current rules to get a full single persons UK state pension, and this is fair and correct IMHO and in fact very generous as, what was not morally unfair, it used to be 44 years of stamp contributions only a few years back. If you have paid your contributions for less than 22 years then your pension is reduced as a direct proportion of how many years you have actually paid your NIS stamp. As I understand it, it makes no difference if you are married or not in respect of your state pension and there is no state widows pension that I know of for those reaching retirement age now and certainly and rightly not for wives who do not live and have never lived in the UK, and that is quite right IMHO. I married my long time Thai lady last year before I was 65 and spoke to the UK DWP (Dept Works and Pensions) and they confirmed it made no difference at all if I was married or not as there is no state widows pension, though they noted for their records that I am now remarried. My private pension is different as this is funded to allow for it, but it will pay her as a widow a 1/4 of my company pension for her life as long as she does not remarry ( it would be 1/2 for long term marriages but because I drew my private pension many years before I remarried last year it is only 1/4 as per the company pension rules but still that is a bloody good deal too). I retired early at age 57 taking a reduced pension, but at least retiring whilst I still have my faculties to benefit from enough years of well earned fun retirement. Once I knew I could retire and still manage to live okay (setting happy but modest goals) in a country like Thailand, I did so straight away as I always worked to live and never the other way around as some, who are to me, sad people do. A UK wife as I understand it now gets her own single persons pension based on whether she has paid her full stamp for more than the required 22 years else her pension is reduced accordingly. I believe that any that still do qualify for a married couples state pension have to have been over retirement age and been paying their NI stamp before a certain date I think way back in the late 80's. Please note I am not 100% sure of all the latest facts but believe this is basically correct from my fairly recent discussions with the UK DWP last year. You should directly contact the UK DWP yourself if you need the factual answers as it is really doubtful whether anyone here actually fully knows the current rules as to UK state pensions, so get it straight from the horses mouth and find out what applies to you personally.

Some more info (as someone mentioned it above for when they get it in 2012) is that they will pay your UK state pension to anywhere in the world at no cost to you BUT many countries (dare I say second or third world ones like Thailand) do not have the international banking arrangements and/or the trust of the western banks, so they can only send a state pension cheque through the post to your nominated Thai bank and I assure you this would usually take a long time to both arrive and then to clear at this end and there would be substantial Thai bank charges to pay too for clearing the cheque. Best way is to have it paid directly to your UK bank account where likely your private company pension goes monthly as well. By using a UK credit card to buy my groceries, petrol, clothes etc and even pay my telephone bills I can then just clear the card monthly in sterling from my UK banked pension at no cost at all and so easy with Internet banking. Cash I need here does cost quite a bit to draw out from the UK but one way around this is to offer to buy needed items on your credit card for friends who have cash or income here and they give you the Thai Baht to you in cash. Thus you incur no ATM fees nor expensive UK credit card cash withdrawal charges and high cash withdrawal interest rates, and the big plus is that you avoid paying the rip off UK banks a small fortune.

I personally think most of the UK rules on pensions and benefits are pretty fair and right overall, BUT one HUGE gripe for me and many other UK expats is that although I still pay UK income tax (fair enough as I was tax exempt from my pension contributions) and have paid my UK NI contributions all my 40 years of hard working life in the UK, I cannot simply get on a plane and go back to the UK and get needed free National Health treatment. I am told I have to stay back there for at least 6 months (way too bloody expensive to do that and maybe too late then for emergency needed treatment!!). By living here in Thailand in our retirement we all personally pay our day to day health costs here and thus save the UK a lot of money, especially considering the high cost of UK doctors and medical fees and the fact that as we get older frequent doctors visits are the norm too. I think it is right and morally sound that those UK National expats who have paid into the UK system all or most of their lives should be able to now in retirement get free UK national health service straight away if needed, not heard a single intelligent and justifiable reason why this is not the case. If I for instance needed heart surgery here it would cost me a fortune that I just could not afford even with my local medium cover BUPA health insurance. So why should I not be able to go back to the UK and rightly get this treatment on the National Health for which I have paid into all my hard working life and of course additionally still pay UK income tax too on my monthly pension and get nothing for it ?? This is so wrong and is born of the huge public misconception (fed by the UK crap gutter press) that expat retirees are all somehow wealthy which is so wrong and the complete opposite of the truth. Nearly all UK retired expats moved abroad as they have small incomes and/or pensions and thus could only barely exist on the bread line living in the cold and damp unhealthy UK. I agree fully that those who have not contributed should receive no benefits at all, either health nor pensions nor social security, as I also hate scroungers and free riding bleeders of the system.

We need to get UK expat pensioners to start a big campaign to redress this unfair anomaly in the UK National Health rules as it is so so so wrong. So lets start writing to our UK MPs and DHSS bosses as this really is unfair and sucks big time, whilst many legally admitted non Brit nationals come into the UK for 6 months and without paying a penny into the system are then entitled to the free National Health service that most retired expats have paid for all their lives. So so wrong and unfair and no morally sound justification for such mean rules either. Lets start acting and petitioning this outrageous situation. Oh sorry for the slight thread drift too

No drift. +1