Can Anyone Help A Pensioner?

[Westerner]

My English mate will be 65 next February so will be eligible for his state pension. He is legally married to a Thai lady and wants to claim married man's allowance but has been told that his wife will have to go to England to get a national insurance number. There is no way this lady will ever get on a plane! Does anybody know if it's possible for her to get a national insurance number without going to England?

[Maigo6]

I wouldn't have thought he had a snowball in he-ll's chance of getting her a lifetimes security number without her ever having been to the UK.

But one never knows.........................

No wonder Thai women wanna marry a Farang.

And I don't mean that in any disrespectful way, I am just thinking about another thread that is ongoing at this moment about poor farmers in Thailand.

[jonniebkk]

he can just explain to her that "pai kruinbien" = "perm knung" or go airplane equals more money. that should be enough to motivate her

[ronw]

The good news is that it IS possible to get a National Insurance number issued to a foreign wife..WITHOUT GOING TO THE UK .

I am one of at least two people who were in the same situation.and succeeded!

I originally applied within two months of getting married, and was told that we had to travel to the Uk in order that a number may be issued...I then saw a thread on TV from some one who had managed to get through the beaurocracy .and re-applied....it took a further 15 months to get satisfaction........

My wife was issued with a N.I number earlier this year,and the pension increased, AND backdated to the date of the marriage....

if you need any more info.....PM me...hope this helps!!

[Westerner]

The good news is that it IS possible to get a National Insurance number issued to a foreign wife..WITHOUT GOING TO THE UK .

I am one of at least two people who were in the same situation.and succeeded!

I originally applied within two months of getting married, and was told that we had to travel to the Uk in order that a number may be issued...I then saw a thread on TV from some one who had managed to get through the beaurocracy .and re-applied....it took a further 15 months to get satisfaction........

My wife was issued with a N.I number earlier this year,and the pension increased, AND backdated to the date of the marriage....

if you need any more info.....PM me...hope this helps!!

I would like some more info please - just got to work out how to send a PM

[ronw]

I would like some more info please - just got to work out how to send a PM

have just PM'ed you...so you can use the "reply" function....

[Maigo6]

The good news is that it IS possible to get a National Insurance number issued to a foreign wife..WITHOUT GOING TO THE UK .

I am one of at least two people who were in the same situation.and succeeded!

I originally applied within two months of getting married, and was told that we had to travel to the Uk in order that a number may be issued...I then saw a thread on TV from some one who had managed to get through the beaurocracy .and re-applied....it took a further 15 months to get satisfaction........

My wife was issued with a N.I number earlier this year,and the pension increased, AND backdated to the date of the marriage....

if you need any more info.....PM me...hope this helps!!

Ron, does your wife become entitled to a widows pension if you should die before her, even if she has never been to UK?

If that's the case, then us British guys have just become even sexier!

Edited September 2, 2007 by Maigo6

[a2396]

My English mate will be 65 next February so will be eligible for his state pension. He is legally married to a Thai lady and wants to claim married man's allowance but has been told that his wife will have to go to England to get a national insurance number. There is no way this lady will ever get on a plane! Does anybody know if it's possible for her to get a national insurance number without going to England?

Go by boat.

[Nibor1945]

I would like some more info please - just got to work out how to send a PM

have just PM'ed you...so you can use the "reply" function....

Hi. I think I've just PM'ed you asking for some info (not very good at all this technical stuff), what with the news of the changes in which immigration office I can now use to extend my Non O (marriage), and now learning of a requirement for a N.I. number for the Thai wife I'm having a bit of a "bad news day".

[ronw]

Ron, does your wife become entitled to a widows pension if you should die before her, even if she has never been to UK?

If that's the case, then us British guys have just become even sexier!

AFAIK......that is correct...am currently investigating....shall post when I know more

.and we brutish British lads have always been sexy

[wontok]

I spoke about this with the Uk govt International Pensions Centre on +44 191 218 7777 last week.

I will be 65 in a couple of years and my wife is ten years younger. I'll be able to get the full state pension, and was told that I will be able to get extra pension as she is my dependent. When she reaches pension age she can get an NI number, without going to the UK. They said this could be done purely to enable them to pay her a pension. My pension will then decrease as she is no longer my dependent, but the total will remain about the same, and her pension will continue for her lifetime, once I am dead. As others have said here, there will be no inflation-linked increases in pension for those of us in Thailand.

I left the UK in 1991 and didn't pay any more contributions until 2000. Now that we only need 30 years contributions to get a full pension these were a very good investment, particularly as they will generate a pension for my wife for many years after I have gone.

[taxexile]

When she reaches pension age she can get an NI number, without going to the UK. They said this could be done purely to enable them to pay her a pension.

god bless the outstanding generosity of the selfless british taxpayer for services above and beyond.

i am sure that they will be most gratified to know that people who have never set foot in the british isles will be able to draw a pension , even as pensioners in the uk , some of whom have actually paid contributions and taxes , struggle to exist on the pittance paid out there as an excuse for a pension.

rule brittania.

[ronw]

When she reaches pension age she can get an NI number, without going to the UK. They said this could be done purely to enable them to pay her a pension.

god bless the outstanding generosity of the selfless british taxpayer for services above and beyond.

i am sure that they will be most gratified to know that people who have never set foot in the british isles will be able to draw a pension , even as pensioners in the uk , some of whom have actually paid contributions and taxes , struggle to exist on the pittance paid out there as an excuse for a pension.

rule brittania.

British state pensions are not a grant......they have been financed by those who have worked in the UK.....

Are you saying that a wife of a Briton is only eligible to get a pension if she is British?

There are many who get a pension without having worked......because their partner has paid the necessary contributions during their working life.....

[taxexile]

one of the posters who lives in thailand with his thai wife is trying to get a pension for her , it would appear that he needs to get a national insurance number for her , even though she has never set foot in the uk.

if she has no n.i. number , then she has never worked in the uk.

that seems to me like he is trying to take advantage of , milk , squeeze , work the system etc. of an already overburdened system to increase his financial benefit.

if my understanding is wrong then please correct me.

[ronw]

one of the posters who lives in thailand with his thai wife is trying to get a pension for her , it would appear that he needs to get a national insurance number for her , even though she has never set foot in the uk.

if she has no n.i. number , then she has never worked in the uk.

that seems to me like he is trying to take advantage of , milk , squeeze , work the system etc. of an already overburdened system to increase his financial benefit.

if my understanding is wrong then please correct me.

Please read my previous post......British state pensions are financed by those who have worked in the UK....

for instance.....my mother and two of my sisters-in law all get a state pension...and they have never been employed....their pensions are FINANCED by their husbands' contributions......so what is wrong with that?

[taxexile]

is the husbands benefit reduced in order to fund the spouses benefit ?

[Westerner]

When she reaches pension age she can get an NI number, without going to the UK. They said this could be done purely to enable them to pay her a pension.

god bless the outstanding generosity of the selfless british taxpayer for services above and beyond.

i am sure that they will be most gratified to know that people who have never set foot in the british isles will be able to draw a pension , even as pensioners in the uk , some of whom have actually paid contributions and taxes , struggle to exist on the pittance paid out there as an excuse for a pension.

rule brittania.

Wow! Britain sounds like one crazy country

[mogoso]

When she reaches pension age she can get an NI number, without going to the UK. They said this could be done purely to enable them to pay her a pension.

god bless the outstanding generosity of the selfless british taxpayer for services above and beyond.

i am sure that they will be most gratified to know that people who have never set foot in the british isles will be able to draw a pension , even as pensioners in the uk , some of whom have actually paid contributions and taxes , struggle to exist on the pittance paid out there as an excuse for a pension.

rule brittania.

Wow! Britain sounds like one crazy country

No crazier than the US. I've read of plans to maybe extend social security to Mexicans who may or may not have worked in the US. Its called totalization and it'll allow mexicans who have worked as little as 18 months in the US to recieve partial benefits. while as a citizen or legal resident it'll take 10 years of work to obtain benefits. their families will be eligible to recieve benefits also.

[wontok]

Tax exile - my understanding is that the husband's benefit has two components - that given to a single man and then a supplement because he has a dependent spouse. Once the spouse reaches pension age and draws a pension in her own right then the husband's pension is decreased by the same amount. This can equally work the other way around, by the way, with a wife drawing a pension and having extra for her dependent husband....

I grew up in the UK in the 50s when my mother and many other middle class women did not have paid work. Instead she worked at home, looking after the family while my Dad earned the cash. My Dad was able to claim an increased pension (about an extra 60%) because he had a dependent wife. (he could also claim extra for us three children - but that stopped in 2003) This was normal, and the rules have not changed today - even though there are many more women working and paying their own contributions. They will get a full pension in their own right, equal to a man's. (A man whose wife has her own state pension cannot get the extra for her!). The pension and the supplement for a dependent wife are not negotiable - they are avaialble as of right, earned through one partner's having paid sufficient NI contributions. I can't see what difference it makes where a wife lives or whether she has visited the UK - the issue is whether the required NI contributions have been paid.

If I am living in the UK and entitled to a supplement to my pension to support my wife should that stop if go overseas? If I marry again overseas and have a wife to support why should I be entitled to less support than I would have got for my first wife in England?

There are some good government documents online but I've found this very helpful:

http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/fs19/

cheers

Wontok

[taxexile]

it just strikes me as somewhat strange that the uk benefit system should be paying out to support women living in a foriegn country , who are not uk citizens , who have never been to the uk , never contributed in any way whatsoever to the financing of the system and who may very well be drawing their own benefits from their own country.

the system is far too generous , to the detriment of those pensioners who have to live in the uk on a pittance after possibly contributing all their lives , and to the advantage of those who have never even been to the uk.

at a time when cutbacks in government spending are affecting hospitals , schools and public services generally , it is just one of many unfairnesses and anomalies that really should be looked at by the authorities.

but then again , the british government , like each and every government , is more interested in re election , riding the gravy train and hanging on to power than actually improving the lot of its people.

i could rant on and on , but i will spare you all.

[ronw]

it just strikes me as somewhat strange that the uk benefit system should be paying out to support women living in a foriegn country , who are not uk citizens , who have never been to the uk , never contributed in any way whatsoever to the financing of the system and who may very well be drawing their own benefits from their own country.

the system is far too generous , to the detriment of those pensioners who have to live in the uk on a pittance after possibly contributing all their lives , and to the advantage of those who have never even been to the uk.

at a time when cutbacks in government spending are affecting hospitals , schools and public services generally , it is just one of many unfairnesses and anomalies that really should be looked at by the authorities.

but then again , the british government , like each and every government , is more interested in re election , riding the gravy train and hanging on to power than actually improving the lot of its people.

i could rant on and on , but i will spare you all.

You really do not seem to understand......

I have worked all my life....and have contributed to the National Insurance scheme during all that time...

Do you really think that my foreign ( non British) wife is not entitled to a share of a pension for which I have PAID?

Can you please explain why you think she is not eligible ......?

[buffcoat]

The UK pension system is not generous in my view but it would not make any difference to UK pensioners if 'foreign' wives were excluded.

The fundamental reason that the system is poor is that our govts (of both parties) adopted the pay as you go system for pensions,that is pensions are paid out of revenue received in NI and general taxation contributions from the people currently working.

When you pay NI none of your money is set aside for you to fund your pension in the future.

You will see if you get past the red tape that your NI contribution guarantees you absolutely nothing.No guarantee of any benefit in terms of pension arrangement,healthcare is given which is why Govt can change the age at which you can receive pension,the amount etc. as it wishes.

NI contributions are not ringfenced in anyway,they do not have to be used for pensions etc. and are in fact simply another tax which is added to the total treasury income.

[Boo]

To the best of my understanding, in order to get an NI number she will need to present herself to the benefits office with proof of entitlement to live & work in the UK (i.e. residency visa or citizenship) with proof that she has either got employment already or is actively loking for work. Not sure how a women who has never lived in the UK or has no entitlement to live & work in the UK could get an NI number as the process is all done in person with strict requirements on documentation to provide.

[ronw]

To the best of my understanding, in order to get an NI number she will need to present herself to the benefits office with proof of entitlement to live & work in the UK (i.e. residency visa or citizenship) with proof that she has either got employment already or is actively loking for work. Not sure how a women who has never lived in the UK or has no entitlement to live & work in the UK could get an NI number as the process is all done in person with strict requirements on documentation to provide.

This is normally the case,and is what applicants from overseas are told......but the whole truth was not told....

However, one member of TV took on the benefit sytem on this issue...and won..

It took a long time,and incredible persistence on his behalf, but he WON!

All credit to him, ..a victory of the little man against a government agency.He has my total respect!

Following his advice, ( as I said earlier) I re-applied...and re-fought the battle,and managed to get a NI number for my wife.

It was somewhat easier for me, as I knew that there was a precedent....

As I posted before....pensions are not a discretionary award.....they have been paid for....by contributions from people who have worked in the UK.....

[true blue]

he can just explain to her that "pai kruinbien" = "perm knung" or go airplane equals more money. that should be enough to motivate her

mine did, got 2000 pounds back pay,and 57 quid a week for 10 years.

[Thongkorn]

How can anybody get anything, when in It clearly says in A Thais passport who has a settlement visa stamp inside. NO recourse to public funds, You can register for a National insurance number, by appointment. You have to have an interview, also you will have to provide Marriage certificate, proof of Abode and visa Number, Think some ones on the pop or in dream land. I have no problem with anyone sharing there pension with there none British wife as long as it is a single persons pension, If you are Married and devoiced, does your pension go down because you are paying for your ex wife, or in some cases the last 3/4 failed marriages. I supose there is a way to sort this out , just say must be collected in your local post office, or when you sign on.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Thongkorn

[BigWheelMan]

I believe that for a man who wishes to claim extra UK state pension allowance for a dependant spouse, the wife has to be pensionable age which is presently 60 years of age.

Best to check this out.

[kennkate]

How can anybody get anything, when in It clearly says in A Thais passport who has a settlement visa stamp inside. NO recourse to public funds, You can register for a National insurance number, by appointment. You have to have an interview, also you will have to provide Marriage certificate, proof of Abode and visa Number, Think some ones on the pop or in dream land. I have no problem with anyone sharing there pension with there none British wife as long as it is a single persons pension, If you are Married and devoiced, does your pension go down because you are paying for your ex wife, or in some cases the last 3/4 failed marriages. I supose there is a way to sort this out , just say must be collected in your local post office, or when you sign on.

Yes it does indeed state on the Visa NO recourse to public funds. She/He is not the claimant The UK national is making the claim.

As for getting a Nat Ins number Yes you do have to show your passport with Visa that is all. Can be done at the local job Centre.

I do not know how one would obtain it from outside the UK I do know the form you fill in for adult dependent increase asks for Nat Ins No

[473geo]

How can anybody get anything, when in It clearly says in A Thais passport who has a settlement visa stamp inside. NO recourse to public funds, You can register for a National insurance number, by appointment. You have to have an interview, also you will have to provide Marriage certificate, proof of Abode and visa Number, Think some ones on the pop or in dream land. I have no problem with anyone sharing there pension with there none British wife as long as it is a single persons pension, If you are Married and devoiced, does your pension go down because you are paying for your ex wife, or in some cases the last 3/4 failed marriages. I supose there is a way to sort this out , just say must be collected in your local post office, or when you sign on.

Don't give the goverment any more excuse to rip us off!!!!........my personal private pension which I paid into.....transfers to my wife on my death......so why not my government pension?

[Rinrada]

Just did a quick pension forcast and as a couple we will get (at todays rate) @ £160 week which at least enough fore3 retirement visa....maybe ..if I can force myself to stop the TOIL...

Apart for my years abroad have always paid UK Tax/Ni etc...&.wiffee of course has UKPP.

Also everything both here in UK and LOS is all paid for although just heard that "we" bought another 5 Rai in the mountains and need some more cows /ducks...but apart from that..??