Soil Nutrients

[Beardog]

Does anyone know the equivalency to clover (in the U.S.) to produce nitrogen fixing in soil & stop soil erosion.

I am looking for an economical seed to plant that is not in the tree family & clover or the like would be great ground cover as well.

I have not seen clover in Thailand as I am sure it is not native to the region.

What would be a good equivalent.

Thanks !!!!!!!

[chownah]

There are lots of legumes (legumes fix nitrogen) that grow in Thailand but I have never heard of clover being grown. There is none that I know of that grows with alot of stems per centimetre like clover does....I'm assuming you are talking about short perennial clover which can be grown very much like a lawn.

I think that for serious erosion problems that grasses are used...vetiver is the most readily available and is promoted by H.R.H. the King. Centrosema is a legume that can be mixed with grasses but if left uncut it will grow to half a metre thick or more...it will tend to get woody if left uncut...cows love the stuff and it is very nutritious for them.

Which legume would be best for you depends on exactly what conditions you have and if you are wanting it to be like a lawn or like a pasture. I don't know of any lawn like legumes native to Thailand. Here is a great resource for learning about any grassland legumes you might hear about....centrosema is discussed there, for instance.

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGP/AGPC/doc/Gbase/Default.htm

Chownah

[jubby]

I have also thought about trying to improve the 'pasture' for our cows. Where would I get these seeds from ? Can they be added to existing grassland or would I need to plough it up first ?

[chownah]

I have also thought about trying to improve the 'pasture' for our cows. Where would I get these seeds from ? Can they be added to existing grassland or would I need to plough it up first ?

You might have some already. Go to the website I gave and look at some pictures and then see if you can find them. Centrosema grows very commonly around where I live in the north. I collected my seeds from what is growing here naturally. I don't know if the seed is for sale or not...I think it might be but I've never purchased any. I think you could go to an agriculture university and ask them if seed is available in your area. Usually you would till the soil where you plant them. I guess it depends on the size of your operation and how serious you are about it but for a small plot you might till up and plant a small strip or spot and plant there...it will spread out on its own and seems to maintain itself fairly well once established. If grown in this way it probably will never get too thick especially if you have cows grazing as they love the stuff and will keep it trimmed pretty well.

If you decide to plow and plant then check out the website as I think it recommends planting it with grasses and it discusses which grasses do best with it in what conditions etc.....I've never done this. I've been working with sunn hemp (not related to hemp at all) which is a legume annual grown as a green manure crop and not for cattle feed. I plant and plow this in two months later. I also raise my own seed and you must plant this from about September through about the end of November to get the best seed crop from what I've seen so far. You can plant it anytime of the year for plowing in as a green manure crop....but it sounds like this is not what you're looking for but I thought I'd mention it.

Also, I've been experimenting with a wild bean that sprouted up in my garden last year. I did one planting from the wild seed last November and harvested seed in February. I planted some of these seeds in February and discovered that they are not making flowers or seeds at all but getting really long vines and are making a thick mat of vegetation. It seems that they only flower and make seed when the days are short so they have been growing and growing and I expect that when the days get shorter they will flower...maybe Sept or Oct. This August I planted some more of these seeds out in a plot and now I've got a nice bunch of small plants growing and I expect this will provide me with a bunch of seeds which I will plant in part of the rice paddy after rice harvest to see how it produces for cattle feed (I already checked and cows love it) and/or as a green manure crop although it might get too viney and hard to plow...time will tell. My idea is that since this bean grows fairly wild here it is probably not bothered much by insects and seems to do well without fertilizer (I'm mostly organic in my farming) and it so far has been fairly easy to get alot of seed from it....I also have heard that the seeds can be eaten by humans when they are green and there is probably a small market for them at that stage. I guess my idea is that growing a native plant is probably easier than a cultivated plant with the down side being proabably a smaller yield...oh well.

I recommend getting familiar with the legumes that grow naturally around where you live and seeing what you can do with them....but this approach is not for everyone.

Chownah

Edited September 3, 2007 by chownah

[Beardog]

I have also thought about trying to improve the 'pasture' for our cows. Where would I get these seeds from ? Can they be added to existing grassland or would I need to plough it up first ?

You might have some already. Go to the website I gave and look at some pictures and then see if you can find them. Centrosema grows very commonly around where I live in the north. I collected my seeds from what is growing here naturally. I don't know if the seed is for sale or not...I think it might be but I've never purchased any. I think you could go to an agriculture university and ask them if seed is available in your area. Usually you would till the soil where you plant them. I guess it depends on the size of your operation and how serious you are about it but for a small plot you might till up and plant a small strip or spot and plant there...it will spread out on its own and seems to maintain itself fairly well once established. If grown in this way it probably will never get too thick especially if you have cows grazing as they love the stuff and will keep it trimmed pretty well.

If you decide to plow and plant then check out the website as I think it recommends planting it with grasses and it discusses which grasses do best with it in what conditions etc.....I've never done this. I've been working with sunn hemp (not related to hemp at all) which is a legume annual grown as a green manure crop and not for cattle feed. I plant and plow this in two months later. I also raise my own seed and you must plant this from about September through about the end of November to get the best seed crop from what I've seen so far. You can plant it anytime of the year for plowing in as a green manure crop....but it sounds like this is not what you're looking for but I thought I'd mention it.

Also, I've been experimenting with a wild bean that sprouted up in my garden last year. I did one planting from the wild seed last November and harvested seed in February. I planted some of these seeds in February and discovered that they are not making flowers or seeds at all but getting really long vines and are making a thick mat of vegetation. It seems that they only flower and make seed when the days are short so they have been growing and growing and I expect that when the days get shorter they will flower...maybe Sept or Oct. This August I planted some more of these seeds out in a plot and now I've got a nice bunch of small plants growing and I expect this will provide me with a bunch of seeds which I will plant in part of the rice paddy after rice harvest to see how it produces for cattle feed (I already checked and cows love it) and/or as a green manure crop although it might get too viney and hard to plow...time will tell. My idea is that since this bean grows fairly wild here it is probably not bothered much by insects and seems to do well without fertilizer (I'm mostly organic in my farming) and it so far has been fairly easy to get alot of seed from it....I also have heard that the seeds can be eaten by humans when they are green and there is probably a small market for them at that stage. I guess my idea is that growing a native plant is probably easier than a cultivated plant with the down side being proabably a smaller yield...oh well.

I recommend getting familiar with the legumes that grow naturally around where you live and seeing what you can do with them....but this approach is not for everyone.

Chownah

Thank you Chownah

You always have some great info. I looked at some legumes earlier & they looked like the ticket. Once again many thanks!!!!!

Beardog

[jubby]

Thanks for the advice Chownah,

Were in Chiang Rai, we only have approx 20 Cows , bought them originally to keep the grass down and provide free fertiliser. We have them on our lamyai plantation which is quite spreadout so there's lots of grass. As these things go, I got talking with a swiss friend (should know something about cows ) and he thought maybe I could improve the pasture as the current grass isn't particularly nutritious in his opinion, sounds like a good Idea and not something I've heard thais doing. Incidentally the cows keep the grass down but I still have to use the slasher on the tractor as they don't touch the weeds or trees that seem to pop up regularly. Cows seem to thrive on the lamlai, leaves and fruit but don't do any real damage ;-)

The Father-in-Law says I can also get some sort of hedging plant that grows profusely which I can put around the perimeter which the Cows like also but I'm waiting on him finding some, could be a long wait ;-)