Jaay Ngern And Ngern Thaawn

[realmadrid25]

pom jaay ngern laeo = I already paid

pom jaay ngern seep naa thee laeo = I paid ten minutes ago

pom jaay ngern meuua waan = I paid yesterday

pom jaay ngern pooying suaam choot see faa gaee laeo = I already paid the girl in the dark blue uniform (think Fuji)

Pom ja jaay ngern preung nee = I will pay tomorrow

yang mai dai ngern thaawn leuuy krap = I have not recieved my change yet.

khun hai pom ngern thaawn phit = You gave me an incorrect amount of change.

Khun hai pom ngern thaawn mai phaaw = You gave me too little change.

[pufferfish]

1. pom jaay ngern laeo = I already paid

2. pom jaay ngern seep naa thee laeo = I paid ten minutes ago

3. pom jaay ngern meuua waan = I paid yesterday

4. pom jaay ngern pooying suaam choot see faa gaee laeo = I already paid the girl in the dark blue uniform (think Fuji)

5. Pom ja jaay ngern preung nee = I will pay tomorrow

6. yang mai dai ngern thaawn leuuy krap = I have not recieved my change yet.

7. khun hai pom ngern thaawn phit = You gave me an incorrect amount of change.

8. Khun hai pom ngern thaawn mai phaaw = You gave me too little change.

Hi, some nice sentences. I've added some numbers so people can reply to these better. I would add 'khaw thot krab' to the beginning of 7 and 8, and maybe 'na krab' at the end to make them a little more polite. Also, I don't know 'suam' what does that mean?

[realmadrid25]

to clarify, i do not know if these are correct or not. i suspect that several of them are not correct.

suaam http://www.thai-language.com/id/135398

Edited September 6, 2007 by realmadrid25

[meadish_sweetball]

It's a more polite word for 'wear; be dressed in' with rising tone (mind the tone though, with falling tone it means 'toilet').

[mangkorn]

Don't overlook the best one on that list: สาวแสนสวยใส่เสื้อสีแสดสวมส้นสูงสีส้ม

That's an outstanding "tongue-twister" for practicing different tones.

Edited September 6, 2007 by mangkorn

[mangkorn]

to clarify, i do not know if these are correct or not. i suspect that several of them are not correct.

suaam http://www.thai-language.com/id/135398

I'm curious: why do you "suspect that several of them are not correct"?

[realmadrid25]

to clarify, i do not know if these are correct or not. i suspect that several of them are not correct.

suaam http://www.thai-language.com/id/135398

I'm curious: why do you "suspect that several of them are not correct"?

when i try i try to put sentences together just using a dictionary, it usually ends up being slightly incorrect or there is a more common way of saying it.

[mangkorn]

to clarify, i do not know if these are correct or not. i suspect that several of them are not correct.

suaam http://www.thai-language.com/id/135398

I'm curious: why do you "suspect that several of them are not correct"?

when i try i try to put sentences together just using a dictionary, it usually ends up being slightly incorrect or there is a more common way of saying it.

It is impossible to translate between languages by just going word-for-word from a dictionary. Translation is an art, not a science. There are many factors to be considered, not least of all being different syntaxes.

Edit: It seems I misunderstood your previous post; you were referring to your own phrases, but I had thought that you were doubting the veracity of the phrases in thai-language.com for "suaam." My bad.

Edited September 6, 2007 by mangkorn

[realmadrid25]

so noong is a more common word for "to wear" than suaam?

[mangkorn]

so noong is a more common word for "to wear" than suaam?

I think the more common word is ใส่ - sai

[longway]

1. pom jaay ngern laeo = I already paid

2. pom jaay ngern seep naa thee laeo = I paid ten minutes ago

3. pom jaay ngern meuua waan = I paid yesterday

4. pom jaay ngern pooying suaam choot see faa gaee laeo = I already paid the girl in the dark blue uniform (think Fuji)

5. Pom ja jaay ngern preung nee = I will pay tomorrow

6. yang mai dai ngern thaawn leuuy krap = I have not recieved my change yet.

7. khun hai pom ngern thaawn phit = You gave me an incorrect amount of change.

8. Khun hai pom ngern thaawn mai phaaw = You gave me too little change.

Hi, some nice sentences. I've added some numbers so people can reply to these better. I would add 'khaw thot krab' to the beginning of 7 and 8, and maybe 'na krab' at the end to make them a little more polite. Also, I don't know 'suam' what does that mean?

I may be wrong as know one else has mentioned it, but isnt the correct construction of 7 and 8 the following:

khun hai ngern thaawn pom phit

Khun hai ngern thaawn pom mai phaaw

also 6.

yang mai rap ngern thawn khrap

cheers

[sutnyod]

For newbie-women who want to learn Thai the sentences are also not usable, because they are said by a man. It would be good to include Phom/Chan and Krap/Kah

[CSS]

1. pom jaay ngern laeo (na) = I already paid The na is optional

2. pom jaay ngern meuua seep naa thee laeo = I paid ten minutes ago

3. pom jaay ngern meuua waan = I paid yesterday

4. pom jaay ngern hai gab pooying thee sai choot see nam ngern gae laeo = I already paid the girl in the dark blue uniform (think Fuji)

5. Pom ja jaay ngern preung nee = I will pay tomorrow Fine but I would say preung nee first

6. yang mai dai ngern thaawn leuuy krap = I have not recieved my change yet.remove the leuuy

7. khun hai pom ngern thaawn phit = You gave me an incorrect amount of change. The correction made in another post (moving pom) is fine. I would say it in another softer sounding way though. Maybe something like: kaw thoed krap/kah ngern thaawn thee pom/chan dai rab mai thuuk dtawng na

8. Khun hai pom ngern thaawn mai phaaw = You gave me too little change.same as above: kaw thoed krap/kaw ngern thaawn thee pom/chan dai rab mai phaaw na

Hi, some nice sentences. I've added some numbers so people can reply to these better. I would add 'khaw thot krab' to the beginning of 7 and 8, and maybe 'na krab' at the end to make them a little more polite. Also, I don't know 'suam' what does that mean?

additions within text above.

[meadish_sweetball]

Agree that moving 'phom' is necessary in 7 and 8, if we are to use that type of construction.

The order of the objects in Thai is fixed in these type of constructions (with 'hai' and one indirect and one direct object).

The word order used in the OP would translate to 'You gave me to the wrong change' and 'You gave me to the insufficient change' which does not make much sense.

I also agree with CSS that rewriting the sentences to make them softer may be a good idea - his suggestions are good.

Apart from the incorrect grammar in the 'hai' construction, the original word order is very straight and might seem like an accusation, which could easily cause the other party to go into defensive mode and stop listening to further arguments.

mangkorn also gave the more commonly used word for 'wear'. It's good to know both. You would not be corrected by a Thai for using 'suam' as it is both polite and correct, but if you are aiming for everyday, non highbrow Thai, it's better to use 'sai'.

These two verbs can be combined too 'sai-suam' - the meaning is the same (to wear), but it is considered to be more eloquent using such two-word combinations in formal writing, for example.

[LookSaMoon]

7. khun hai pom ngern thaawn phit = You gave me an incorrect amount of change.

8. Khun hai pom ngern thaawn mai phaaw = You gave me too little change.

I think 7 and 8 should say together as :-

Khor thod na kha. Thaawn ngern phid kha. Khaad pai ... bht ขอโทษนะคะ ทอนเงินผิดคะ ขาดไป ... บาท

Kern pai ... bht เกินไป ... บาท ( for over change )

[eJai]

2. pom jaay ngern seep naa thee laeo = I paid ten minutes ago

- jaay ngern laeo meuua 15 naa thee goon ( จ่ายเงินแล้วเมื่อ 15 นาทีก่อน )

3. pom jaay ngern meuua waan = I paid yesterday

- jaay ngern laeo meuua waan nee ( จ่ายเงินแล้วเมื่อวานนี้ )

6. yang mai dai ngern thaawn leuuy krap = I have not recieved my change yet.

- yang mai dai rab ngern thaawn yuu ( ยังไม่ได้รับเงินทอนอยู่ )

Just some suggestions.

[realmadrid25]

is it possible to teach myself grammar?

[meadish_sweetball]

If you buy a grammar book or two, yes. You will probably have questions though, but that's where forums such as this one comes in.

There are two grammar books I would recommend buying:

Snea Thinsan and James Higbie - Thai Reference Grammar - the most comprehensive grammar in an easily accessible format. Not always 100% idiomatic, but for finding ways of expressing yourself there is no better.

David Smyth's Thai - An Essential Grammar - this is briefer, but has the advantage of being very thoroughly fact checked. Everything in it is 100% kosher Thai and can be trusted. He introduces the basic patterns you need to understand to start speaking Thai correctly, using a standard framework of grammar which is very well organized and correct.

The transcription used differs between the two. David Smyth uses the AUA transcription which is IPA-based, whereas the Thinsan/Bigbie book uses another form that does not distinguish between long and short vowels.

[realmadrid25]

i just ran some of these by thai people and they said that no one talks this way. they gave me

khun yang hai ngern thaawn pom mai krope - you didnt give me enough change

toat-na-krap ngern thaawn yang mai krope

Pom jaay bpai laeo krap -> i already paid

[realmadrid25]

how many hours would you say that it took you to become fluent in thai meadish?

[DavidHouston]

If you buy a grammar book or two, yes. You will probably have questions though, but that's where forums such as this one comes in.

There are two grammar books I would recommend buying:

Snea Thinsan and James Higbie - Thai Reference Grammar - the most comprehensive grammar in an easily accessible format. Not always 100% idiomatic, but for finding ways of expressing yourself there is no better.

David Smyth's Thai - An Essential Grammar - this is briefer, but has the advantage of being very thoroughly fact checked. Everything in it is 100% kosher Thai and can be trusted. He introduces the basic patterns you need to understand to start speaking Thai correctly, using a standard framework of grammar which is very well organized and correct.

The transcription used differs between the two. David Smyth uses the AUA transcription which is IPA-based, whereas the Thinsan/Bigbie book uses another form that does not distinguish between long and short vowels.

I second Meadish's recommendation of the Smyth book. It's very comprehensible whether one reads the Thai or the Roman transcriptions; and it contains many helpful examples. Both the index and table of contents make the book easily accessible. To boot, it has several indexes and a glossary of all the grammar and linguistic terms which we all forgot since high school or never knew to begin with.

[meadish_sweetball]

Both of those sentences are good.

Agreed that 'khrop' is a better word to use than 'phaw' in this case.

All of us here in the forum are at different levels and you will likely find that for using the right sentence, a native speaker will almost invariably have a more idiomatic suggestion than a foreigner.

Some sentences above are grammatically correct and would be understood, but just like your friends told you, it is not the most idiomatic way of saying things. Even if you read all the grammar books in the world, you would still not be able to know what the most common phrasing for different situations is - such knowledge comes with real life practice.

[meadish_sweetball]

how many hours would you say that it took you to become fluent in thai meadish?

I have several years of practice left to go before I would begin to consider myself fluent. I have studied Thai formally for three years and can communicate without problems, but fluency is a long way away.

[DavidHouston]

Agree that moving 'phom' is necessary in 7 and 8, if we are to use that type of construction.

The order of the objects in Thai is fixed in these type of constructions (with 'hai' and one indirect and one direct object).

The word order used in the OP would translate to 'You gave me to the wrong change' and 'You gave me to the insufficient change' which does not make much sense.

I also agree with CSS that rewriting the sentences to make them softer may be a good idea - his suggestions are good.

Apart from the incorrect grammar in the 'hai' construction, the original word order is very straight and might seem like an accusation, which could easily cause the other party to go into defensive mode and stop listening to further arguments.

mangkorn also gave the more commonly used word for 'wear'. It's good to know both. You would not be corrected by a Thai for using 'suam' as it is both polite and correct, but if you are aiming for everyday, non highbrow Thai, it's better to use 'sai'.

These two verbs can be combined too 'sai-suam' - the meaning is the same (to wear), but it is considered to be more eloquent using such two-word combinations in formal writing, for example.

Thought that the common used combination was "สวมใส่" [V] wear; be dressed in; have on; put on; don [Lexitron], not the converse, "ใส่สวม"? But, I do agree with the not use in conversation; this is a more literary term.

I was also interested in the differences between สวมด, ใส่, and นุ่ง. The Matichon dictionary says for นุ่ง, "ปัจจุบันหมายถึงเฉพาะท่อนล่างอย่างเดียว" "in current usage, the word is used for only the lower parts of the body." Thus, I guess, we see "นุ่งกางเกง" [nôong gaang-geng] "to wear pants" and "นุ่งกระโปรง" [nôong grà-bprohng] "to wear a skirt".

Thanks.

[phanatnikhom]

If you buy a grammar book or two, yes. You will probably have questions though, but that's where forums such as this one comes in.

There are two grammar books I would recommend buying:

Snea Thinsan and James Higbie - Thai Reference Grammar - the most comprehensive grammar in an easily accessible format. Not always 100% idiomatic, but for finding ways of expressing yourself there is no better.

David Smyth's Thai - An Essential Grammar - this is briefer, but has the advantage of being very thoroughly fact checked. Everything in it is 100% kosher Thai and can be trusted. He introduces the basic patterns you need to understand to start speaking Thai correctly, using a standard framework of grammar which is very well organized and correct.

The transcription used differs between the two. David Smyth uses the AUA transcription which is IPA-based, whereas the Thinsan/Bigbie book uses another form that does not distinguish between long and short vowels.

The last sentence isn't correct. Higbie/Thinsan distinguishes between long and short vowels using an asterisk

[Rikker]

Small suggestion: use ไม่ครบ mai khrop instead of ไม่พอ mai phaw for "not enough" change -- they didn't give you the full amount they were supposed to. คุณให้เงินทอนไม่ครบ or คุณทอนเงินไม่ครบ is literally "you shortchanged me," but I think it's a rough idiomatic equivalent to "you didn't give me enough change".

Edited November 29, 2008 by Rikker

[meadish_sweetball]

The Thinsan/Bigbie book uses another form that does not distinguish between long and short vowels.

Higbie/Thinsan distinguishes between long and short vowels using an asterisk

You're quite right, I'm sorry for the confusion caused. It's the first time I've seen this method used, which is why I hadn't noticed up until now.