Where Were You On Sept 11, 2001?

[kayo]

wow. 30 posts deleted from this thread.

Have they been put in another thread, or just deleted. I'd be intrigued to read what people have to say.

Where was I? Somewhere on Koh Kood, or Koh Chang, I think.

Throughout September, I remember hearing snippets of conversation about it, but put it down to the latest Blockbuster or Bestseller novel or something... Busy as we were with the final stages of construction of our resort on Than Nam beach.

I heardm or rather, definitly read about it, about it only several weeks later, in october sometime.

A tourist had at some stage thrown a copy of the relevant bangkok post with the immortal photos, in his backpack, and he got it out for me to read. That's when I first believed what I'd heard in snippets from other travellers.

I recall the next time I went to the mainland, one of the first things I did was look it up online. I read dozens of websites about it.

I was shocked, and of course I find it tragic for the individuals who suffered, but frankly, I was impressed with the execution of this act, and, quite frankly, I feel America had it coming.

Their gov't has jeapordised their people for a long time with their immature school-boy bully attitude in diplomatic relations abroad.

Several authors, among whom none other than Robert Ludlum and Tom Clancy have described very similar scenarios occuring in their novels since the 70's.

[bkkmadness]

Close the thread then if your only going to allow posts that are sympathetic.

The biggest casualties of 9/11 are freedom of speech and independant thought.

The people who died were not only Americans and even if they were they deserve our sympathy. The biggest casualties may have been freedom of speech and independent thought but does they were not the only casualties by a long way. Every one of those people that died had friends and family.

Now I didn't boo hoo when the towers got hit, didn't effect me one bit in that way. Innocent people die everyday because of far too few rich greedy and powerful people, whether they are starving in their millions in Africa or getting raped and shot in Myanmar so why this event seemed such an extra special tragedy I just don't know. Media, fear and blood lust I guess.

You make a smart arse comment like a uni student wanting to shock, fact is you was cheering some kid losing his Mother whilst the guilty parties sat on their thrones counting their oil money.

Edited September 10, 2007 by bkkmadness

[Maigo6]

9/11, I was on the way to Bkk Airport in a Taxi when my GF called me to tell me what had happened.

I was on a SwissAir flight to Zurich and even though we had no problems leaving BKK, when I arrived in Zurich, it was pandamonium, mainly because all flights to USA were cancelled and flights that were underway were turned back if they had enough fuel.

I then flew to Geneve, from there to London, then back to BKK.

It was very disheartening to see Police with automatic weapons in Heathrow, I dunno guys.................9/11 changed the world.

[bkkmadness]

I was shocked, and of course I find it tragic for the individuals who suffered, but frankly, I was impressed with the execution of this act, and, quite frankly, I feel America had it coming.

Their gov't has jeapordised their people for a long time with their immature school-boy bully attitude in diplomatic relations abroad.

So you say that America had it coming because of the way the govt acted abroad, but what actually come to them? They are still the govt now, no one lost their jobs, Bush wasn't in the towers, in fact everything seems to be going pretty nicely for them. 'America' hasn't been punished at all.

It was us the small people, citizens of all the countries at war that are getting punished, it's us in the firing line, in the towers and trains or minding our own business on the street when a cruise missle hits.

They had it coming, but it was us who got it.

[llso]

Was sitting eating in a noodle stand in Hua Hin and saw it on the TV. The news broke into Thai TV. Went home and drank a case of Chang and called friends in US.

[Tootah]

drinking beer on a barge boat in Newark. Good beer also, little bit pricey. Called Osama and told him he was a fcking bearded mother.

[Pepe']

Sitting at my desk in my home office. Saw it on the computer. The put on the TV.

I spent a couple of years working on the towers as a young guy. So I've got a special relationship with the them.

It's funny but I thought about all the different jobs we did there and how everything was gone.

Used to get the PATH trains to Jersey every night from the station at the bottom of the towers.

[Robski]

You make a smart arse comment like a uni student wanting to shock, fact is you was cheering some kid losing his Mother whilst the guilty parties sat on their thrones counting their oil money.

Spare me the rhetoric, I stated what was fact and the (anti american sentiment) had started well before I got to the TV and saw what was going on.

You think your so well informed, but your statements rely on the same old tired media cliches.

Wether you like it or not, I was there and it was memorable to see the reaction of the overwhelming majority.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Robski

[Pepe']

drinking beer on a barge boat in Newark. Good beer also, little bit pricey. Called Osama and told him he was a fcking bearded mother.

----------------------

God if you were on a barge in Newark you could have been looking right at it when it happened.

Did you see it first hand?

[Tony Clifton]

I'll never forget the blue sky on that morning...

We had the same beautiful conditions in Ottawa. I was at work, was doing my usual stand up routine for the guys around my desk. Once my performance over, I decided to do a quick read of the news on the net while I finished my coffee. I found strange that the phones were quieter than usual. Then I saw on a site that a plane had crashed into the WTC. Then the phones went completely silent. An american expat next to me did not believe me, the joker. Everyone jumped on the net but could open any pages. By the time I was able to open another BBC page later on, the first tower had fallen, no one believed the office prankster again until they gathered around. One of the friendliest guys there, from NY, started crying and we went outside for a smoke, happens he had five relatives working there... We never saw him again after that day, never resigned, just disappeared. I've been searching for him since then.

We were near the airport and we had huge second floor office windows where we used to watch the planes land all day from where we sat. I started really worrying when I noticed that no planes took off, only landed. We went outside later on and no airplane noise whatsoever although we saw one plane flying very high overhead with con trails. Not reassuring.

No planes flying, no internet, everyone freaked out to some degree wondering what came next. We asked to shut down the place for the day but it was denied, heated arguments started, instead they asked for some to volunteer and stay. Some stayed needing the money but I and others happily left thinking it could very well be our last day walking this earth and it wasn't going to be spent working.

The trip home did not help us much in knowing what was going on. The bus was packed and dead quiet, not a word was said in 30 minutes. Five or six hours later, one guy was already holding a fresh newspaper with a huge picture of someone in a free fall with the WTC's now famous external structure in the background. Off the bus and into the city's biggest shopping mall, shops closed, still not a sound. Quiet as when shops used to be closed on Sunday. Going through downtown for the last leg was nerve wrecking, not knowing if an explosion was awaiting, all kinds of crazy sh!t went through my head. Until I was safely home hundreds of miles away from it all and got the tv feeds.

Never in my life have I felt that same horrifying, gut and brain wrenching feeling that those images brought upon me that day. The tsunami was close, tragic, but not man made mass murder.

How the world suddenly got smaller that day...

May this craziness never happen again.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Tony Clifton

[sbk]

Lets cut out the rhetoric than shall we? If we can't stop then the topic will be closed.

Back on topic then....

I was on Koh Phangan, tv not turned on and no idea of it until a friend came over and told me about it the next day. My sister had flown to London for a holiday the day before and couldn't get back for a couple of weeks. Told me that the Londoners were lovely and made her and her son feel at home. thanks guys

[Maigo6]

Lets cut out the rhetoric than shall we? If we can't stop then the topic will be closed.

[bkkmadness]

You think your so well informed, but your statements rely on the same old tired media cliches.

What's the tired media cliche?

PM me if we cannot discuss it here I would love to know.

[bkkmadness]

Lets cut out the rhetoric than shall we? If we can't stop then the topic will be closed.

Back on topic then....

The topic is about where you was during 9/11, of course the discussion furthers to reactions, and furthers still to discussion of those reactions.

If you are allowing a non Thai political topic like this then let us least take the topic further than an OP question followed by everybody stating their one answer and that's it. This is a discussion forum not a Q and A board isn't it?

Back on topic then....

Nobody is off topic. The topic is based on 9/11, if you are going to allow it what do you think we are going to talk about?

Edited September 10, 2007 by bkkmadness

[A_Traveller]

I guess you missed Robski's first version of his 'contribution'.

I have to agree if we can't discuss, then either state only I was there, or here, contributions are allowed and turn it into a bizarre travelogue, or accept that there may well be discussions as to how, why, and what the results have been conversations.

Regards

Edited September 10, 2007 by A_Traveller

[sbk]

The topic is about where you was during 9/11, of course the discussion furthers to reactions, and furthers still to discussion of those reactions.

If you are allowing a non Thai political topic like this then let us least take the topic further than an OP question followed by everybody stating their one answer and that's it. This is a discussion forum not a Q and A board isn't it?

Back on topic then....

Nobody is off topic. The topic is based on 9/11, if you are going to allow it what do you think we are going to talk about?

Actually, there is quite a discussion on whether or not this topic should even be allowed. Personally, I find the discussion of americans' " deserving it" extremely distasteful. And the whole idea of bringing on the anti and pro american rants a road to flaming and warnings.

And that, bkkmadness, is why these kinds of discussions never last. Because it usually seems there can't be a reasonable debate. And, given the number of deleted posts, its pretty obvious that this one has already gone that way.

[elkangorito]

Weren't the Bin Ladens the only people allowed to fly during the "non-fly" period imposed immediately after the event?

[A_Traveller]

Weren't the Bin Ladens the only people allowed to fly during the "non-fly" period imposed immediately after the event?

No, that really is an urban myth.

Regards

[bkkmadness]

I guess you missed Robski's first version of his 'contribution'.

I did think and may well be wrong that he said that he also cheered rather than just watched other people react that way.

Wether you like it or not, I was there and it was memorable to see the reaction of the overwhelming majority.

If I'm wrong I'm sorry but that's what I read before.

I couldn't go back on check it because the post has deleted so I guess it ends there doesn't it.

[farang prince]

I had just dropped off my son at school when I got a call from an old Army buddy of mine at the Pentagon. He told me that we were under terrorist attack. Little did either of us know that less than two hours later, another plane would hit the Pentagon less than 200 yards away from my buddy's office (he was in a meeting at Quantico at the time the plane slammed into the Pentagon). When I got to the office, all the detectives in our Violent Crimes Division were huddled around a radio, listening to the newscast. We left to find a television down in the City Hall snack bar. We watched the towers fall. We didn't get much work done that day. Later that night I got a call that my cousin Brian, who was a firefighter with FDNY, was missing in the rubble of Tower One. They never found his body.

For those of us who lost a family member or a loved one, 9/11 will always be indelible in our minds...not just on the anniversary. But all of us, no matter where we live or what God we worship, and what politics we preach should remember one important thing -- the world became a little bleaker, our feeling of safety and security vanished in an instant and probably never will completely return, and our freedom became a lot more tenuous throughout the world. A footnote in history? I only wish it were so.

[bkkmadness]

Actually, there is quite a discussion on whether or not this topic should even be allowed.

Yep I guessed that would be the case and thanks for allowing it.

And that, bkkmadness, is why these kinds of discussions never last. Because it usually seems there can't be a reasonable debate. And, given the number of deleted posts, its pretty obvious that this one has already gone that way.

Funnily enough I commentated that world politics couldn't be discussed here because it was too much workload on the mods about 10 days ago. I am just back from my suspension for saying exactly what you just did.

Anyway back on topic....?

[bkkmadness]

Ok so back on topic myself, I was visiting London on my last trip over there, friend called told me they hit the twin towers and I rushed downstairs to see my Dad watching it. Shocking when the second plane hit for sure. As I said before though it didn't seem like a special tragedy to me, innocent people die in a horrific way everyday but it seems easier for most to ignore that.

Edited September 10, 2007 by bkkmadness

[A_Traveller]

our feeling of safety and security vanished in an instant

The point is however, that in many parts of the world, including the UK and Europe, such safety and security had vanished years before. That in no way reduces the event or it's significance for those it touched, but relatives of people who had been killed in the streets of London by individuals whose political wings were actively supported in the US, even within the US Congress, might look at 9/11 from a different, though understanding vantage point.

Regards

[elkangorito]

Weren't the Bin Ladens the only people allowed to fly during the "non-fly" period imposed immediately after the event?

No, that really is an urban myth.

Regards

That's funny!?

It says differently here

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,302...2758358,00.html

and here

http://www.prisonplanet.com/030903binladen1.html

Actually I watched it on TV when I was still in Australia. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. From that day as I did prophesize at that moment, the world has slowly been spiraling back down into the black hole of war.

[Robski]

PM me if we cannot discuss it here I would love to know.

I just did.

I think we agree on many issues and we can agree to disagree on others, this is obviously an emotional topic and I understand that my response may have outraged sensibilities, but it is the truth of what happened, after all the deletions though I don't see why a contentious topic has been allowed to continue on such a skewed basis.

Anyway I'm off to watch 'Farenheit 9/11' on the box, Michael Moore may be an anti government, cospiracy theorist crackpot, but he has got some valid points to offer and it's much more interesting than this farce of a thread.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Robski

[A_Traveller]

Three questions have arisen with respect to the departure of Saudi nationals from the United States in the immediate aftermath of 9/11:

(1) Did any flights of Saudi nationals take place before national airspace reopened on September 13, 2001?

(2) Was there any political intervention to facilitate the departure of Saudi nationals?

(3) Did the FBI screen Saudi nationals thoroughly before their departure?

First, we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals, domestic or international, took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001. To the contrary, every flight we have identified occurred after national airspace reopened.

Second, we found no evidence of political intervention. We found no evidence that anyone at the White House above the level of [National Security Council official] Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals ... The President and Vice President told us they were not aware of the issue at all until it surfaced much later in the media. None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee.

Third, we believe that the FBI conducted a satisfactory screening of Saudi nationals who left the United State on charter flights. The Saudi government was advised of and agree to the FBI's requirements that passengers be identified and checked against various databases before the flights departed. The Federal Aviation Administration representative working in the FBI operations center made sure that the FBI was aware of the flights of Saudi nationals and was able to screen the passengers before they were allowed to depart.

The FBI interviewed all persons of interest on these flights prior to their departures. They concluded that none of the passengers was connected to the 9/11 attacks and have since found no evidence to change that conclusion. Our own independent review of the Saudi nationals involved confirms that no one with known links to terrorism departed on these flights.

From The Final Report of the 9/11 Commission.

Regards

PS Many may not be aware that there has been an industry producing 9/11 truths which has been very popular in Germany for some reason.

Edited September 10, 2007 by A_Traveller

[Patsycat]

I like many others was watching TV - Ballykisangel i believe and a subtitle came up about a small plane hitting New York. So turned over to cnn and also thought this is some sort of Bruce Willis movie.

I also knew people who died, may they rest in peace. The worst images to me were the people who jumped....

[kayo]

I was shocked, and of course I find it tragic for the individuals who suffered, but frankly, I was impressed with the execution of this act, and, quite frankly, I feel America had it coming.

Their gov't has jeapordised their people for a long time with their immature school-boy bully attitude in diplomatic relations abroad.

So you say that America had it coming because of the way the govt acted abroad, but what actually come to them? They are still the govt now, no one lost their jobs, Bush wasn't in the towers, in fact everything seems to be going pretty nicely for them. 'America' hasn't been punished at all.

It was us the small people, citizens of all the countries at war that are getting punished, it's us in the firing line, in the towers and trains or minding our own business on the street when a cruise missle hits.

They had it coming, but it was us who got it.

Well said.

Very sad, yet very true.

And now it isn't just the Americans, but anybody who travels anywhere, as well as those of us unfortunate enough to live in "coalition of the willing" countries (and even outside of the coalition (R.I.P Bali, for example).

How at risk we are, really, I cannot say.

I dare say OBL and his cronies are laughing at our nations now though. Look at the fear that our systems have put in to our societies now. It's very Orwellian, now.

Having just read the full 30 minute un-censored transcript of OBL's latest message, I have to say, I think he's quiet the happy soul. And well educated and informed one, I might add, for all his repulsive traits. An intelligent man, a dangerous enemy makes.

Britain lived with serious terrorism for decades and we never instigated such oppressive controls on society as what we have now, due directly to the events of 11/9.

And by the way, why have even the british press and everybody else taken to calling it 9/11

Since when do we put the month before the day?

Edited September 10, 2007 by kayo

[Robski]

Three questions have arisen with respect to the departure of Saudi nationals from the United States in the immediate aftermath of 9/11:

(1) Did any flights of Saudi nationals take place before national airspace reopened on September 13, 2001?

(2) Was there any political intervention to facilitate the departure of Saudi nationals?

(3) Did the FBI screen Saudi nationals thoroughly before their departure?

First, we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals, domestic or international, took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of September 13, 2001. To the contrary, every flight we have identified occurred after national airspace reopened.

Second, we found no evidence of political intervention. We found no evidence that anyone at the White House above the level of [National Security Council official] Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals ... The President and Vice President told us they were not aware of the issue at all until it surfaced much later in the media. None of the officials we interviewed recalled any intervention or direction on this matter from any political appointee.

Third, we believe that the FBI conducted a satisfactory screening of Saudi nationals who left the United State on charter flights. The Saudi government was advised of and agree to the FBI's requirements that passengers be identified and checked against various databases before the flights departed. The Federal Aviation Administration representative working in the FBI operations center made sure that the FBI was aware of the flights of Saudi nationals and was able to screen the passengers before they were allowed to depart.

The FBI interviewed all persons of interest on these flights prior to their departures. They concluded that none of the passengers was connected to the 9/11 attacks and have since found no evidence to change that conclusion. Our own independent review of the Saudi nationals involved confirms that no one with known links to terrorism departed on these flights.

From The Final Report of the 9/11 Commission.

Regards

PS Many may not be aware that there has been an industry producing 9/11 truths which has been very popular in Germany for some reason.

So why did Prince Bandar Bin Sultan, Saudi ambassador to the US and close friend of the Bin Laden family go on Larry King Live and say that the Bin Ladens had been flown out of the country for their own protection if it never happened.

Fearing reprisals against Saudi nationals, the Saudi government asked for help in getting some of its citizens out of the country. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12; http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/

hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf

“Now, what I recall is that I asked for flight manifests of everyone on board and all of those names need to be directly and individually vetted by the FBI before they were allowed to leave the country. And I also wanted the FBI to sign off even on the concept of Saudis being allowed to leave the country. And as I recall, all of that was done. It is true that members of the Bin Laden family were among those who left. We knew that at the time. I can't say much more in open session, but it was a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House.” Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before The Senate Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003.

“I was making or coordinating a lot of decisions on 9/11 and the days immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don't know. Since you pressed me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State, or the White House Chief of Staff's Office. But I don't know.” Testimony of Richard A. Clarke before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, March 24, 2004

After the airspace reopened, six chartered flights with 142 people,mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24. One flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12; http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/

hearing10/staff_statement_10.pdf

It should be noted that the US Customs and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004 lists 162 Saudi Nationals who flew out of the country between 9/11/2001 and 9/15/2001, departing from New York’s Kennedy airport, Washington’s Dulles, and Dallas Fort Worth. http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/

2004/homelandsecurity.pdf.

For an official list of Saudi Passport holders (names redacted) who flew out of the country between 9.11.2001 – 9.15.2001, see US Customs and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004; http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/

2004/homelandsecurity.pdf.

TheSt. Petersburg Times reported on Jun 9, 2004:

"Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation's air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left. The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then took another flight out of the country.”

Moreover: “For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and have denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation about its purpose… The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11 Commission, said in April that it knew of six chartered flights with 142 people aboard, mostly Saudis, that left the United States between Sept. 14 and 24, 2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flight… The 9/11 Commission, which has said the flights out of the United States were handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with the handling of the Tampa flight.

"Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13 were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights.” Jean Heller, “TIA now verifies flight of Saudis; The government has long denied that two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to fly.” St. Petersburg Times, June 9, 2004

[Jingthing]

I was in California at sleep in bed during the attacks. A friend called from the east coast to tell me about them. At first I was in a kind of shock and expected there to be more attacks in California. I assumed work would be cancelled at my workplace; how could people work on such a day, it almost seemed disrespectful of the dead. So I called in after a while and was told "this is an east coast thing" so life sort of went on. That kind of pissed me off because I am from the east coast, and I thought it was really twisted not realizing the entire country was under attack.

For as long as I live, I will never forgive George W Bush for mangling and politically exploiting the reaction to 911, and if he doesn't end up being labeled as the worse president in US history, God help the USA because I don't think we can survive another disaster like him. He makes Richard Nixon look like Pee Wee Herman. 14 more months to go, generations to fix the damage.

Edited September 10, 2007 by Jingthing