Binning The Airport Rail Link

[Dr. Burrito]

In yesterday's Bangkok Post, there was an article about reviewing the airport rail link project that rather implies a serious consideration of ceasing funding for it.

Surely after the amount of money, time and construction already done, this cannot be a serious consideration.

Did anyone else read this article and am I reading it wrong? Is it simply a Chicken Little tactic to draw attention to this project and find yet another way to discredit Thaksin?

I've heard lunacy, but good lord, we don't need another half finished concrete skeleton haunting the Bangkok landscape.

Dr. B

[ilyushin]

Looks like the blame will be on Doc Tox, but I would think funding will be approved and extentions made to complete the rail project. The Thai Stonehenge ( Hopewell) is already enough. Don't need anymore of those!

[wileycoyote]

On economic grounds alone,let alone convenience a railwaylink to the main international gateway is an imperative.

Will Bangkok be able to vie with other ASEAN countries & be able to secure conference business when the infrastructure is a joke ?

When will business ever see Thailand as destination other than R&R ,if the government does not recognise the need for a transportation strategy?

Well highlighted Dr Burrito

Wiley Coyote

[Briggsy]

Hopewell's been done before so can be done again.

Do not underestimate the power of the airport taxi mafia. They stand to lose a huge amount once the rail link opens.

For a rather tenuous comparison, Bangkok Airways has successfully paid to keep the road between Poi Pet and Siem Reap shoddy for many years.

[howtoescape]

Do not underestimate the power of the airport taxi mafia.

I underestimate them, being as the rail link is well on its way to completion.

[Tony Clifton]

Do not underestimate the power of the airport taxi mafia.

I underestimate them, being as the rail link is well on its way to completion.

After inspection.

[lazeeboy]

Do not underestimate the power of the airport taxi mafia.

I underestimate them, being as the rail link is well on its way to completion.

After inspection.

nothing surprises me in thailand anymore .........

[BenDan]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

[Florin]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

That may be the case in places like America, where everyone has a car / friends to pick to them up, but in a place like Paris, the rail link IS very utilized and represents a significant price/time difference. Also in KL, you can't beat the 70km trip in 25 minutes that their high speed train guarantees.

Then again, taxis are very cheap around here...but I still think it would be very useful for people using hotels in the Pratunam/Siam Square/Silom area, which would be very accesible compared to now.

The plan is also to eventually link Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang by rail, which would prove excellent for transit passengers, many of whom moan right on this forum about the travel times between airports.

Anyway, this is not the Hopewell project, it is MUCH too finished for anyone to stop it now...they will probably use inspections as an excuse for delays in its finishing, but that's life.

[Prakanong]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

A good point in many cases - I see Thailand as a bit different from say Singapore though - the backpacker/independent traveller is quite numerous in Thailand and they use the buses extensively - they will move to the rail link plus others.

Every time I have been on Heathrow Express is has been packed and the tube is quite busy too.

[quiksilva]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

That may be the case in places like America, where everyone has a car / friends to pick to them up, but in a place like Paris, the rail link IS very utilized and represents a significant price/time difference. Also in KL, you can't beat the 70km trip in 25 minutes that their high speed train guarantees.

The same is true for Hong Kong and Shanghai's maglev. Not only will the airport link make transit to and from the airport more convenient, it stands to reinvigorate an entire section of Bangkok, the economic impact of this aspect of the project alone makes it worthwhile

Shutting it down would be a monumentally dumb idea, but that doesn't mean they wont do it anyway

[thaihome]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

I have to agree. The airport link is not necessary and will probably be hugely underutilized. There are two multi lane, limited access expressway routes to the airport which makes taking private car (plenty of parking) or taxi much more convenient from most places in Bangkok then lugging baggage in and out of a train, then a station and still end up (or start) in a taxi. This is especially true for business people going to/from the CBD area of Silom and Sathorn. The two stations in Bangkok will not be easy to get to, while you can easily get on expressway in several places and taking elevated through Bangna can be at terminal in less then 30 minutes.

TH

[otherstuff1957]

The Airport Link will probably be underutilized by airport passengers for all of the reasons listed above. However, it passes through several suburbs which are not currently connected to the BTS or Subway and so I wouldn't be surprised if commuters outnumbered the inbound/outbound fliers by quite a bit.

[Prakanong]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

I have to agree. The airport link is not necessary and will probably be hugely underutilized. There are two multi lane, limited access expressway routes to the airport which makes taking private car (plenty of parking) or taxi much more convenient from most places in Bangkok then lugging baggage in and out of a train, then a station and still end up (or start) in a taxi. This is especially true for business people going to/from the CBD area of Silom and Sathorn. The two stations in Bangkok will not be easy to get to, while you can easily get on expressway in several places and taking elevated through Bangna can be at terminal in less then 30 minutes.

TH

I totally agree for the business traveller they will continue with the taxi's / Limo - i get limo's now because i get a receipt and do not with a taxi as do all of my colleagues.

Travelling for leisure I get a taxi from the airport and uaually a limo to the airport from the hotel if i am in BKK

However there is the Lonely Planet crowd for want of a better term for that segment plus the budget traveller type who get the bus into town now who would use the link - they are still quite a big part of the market plus all those Thai;s who see people off at the airport or greet people who do not have their own transport.

Just think all those guys giving their sweethearts the taxi or even limo fare back into town - the giels will jump on the train and keep the money ;-)

[ThaidleHands]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

That may be the case in places like America, where everyone has a car / friends to pick to them up, but in a place like Paris, the rail link IS very utilized and represents a significant price/time difference. Also in KL, you can't beat the 70km trip in 25 minutes that their high speed train guarantees.

KL doesn't provide a good analogy to the situation at BKK. Those KL trains are unlike anything else in their system and run only between two points: KLIA and KL Sentral The trains have an exceptionally large capacity for baggage but cost about ten times the fare of the normal subway and monorail system, and there are only two hotels of any quality at or within walking distance of KL Sentral station.

A better analogy is Singapore. Regular mass transit cars run on a spur of one of the mail lines all the way out to Changi airport. When you arrive you pay a normal-level fare, you change trains once and then you've got access to the entire transit network and there's plenty of room for your bags. Only at some peak hours and at some stations is this awkward when managing one or more large bags.

The analogy still falls apart though on a couple of practical points. For one thing, Singaporeans have graduated from "Mass Transit 101" and understand keeping away from the doors, moving to the center of the car and so on, whereas Bangkokians have not. And the Singapore transit system designers understood the need to provide escalators in both directions to get departing passengers to street level whether up or down. As most BTS stations don't provide a SkyBridge and only steps down to street level, the last segment from public transit to hotel is an order of magnitude more arduous in Bangkok than it needs to be.

[Prakanong]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

That may be the case in places like America, where everyone has a car / friends to pick to them up, but in a place like Paris, the rail link IS very utilized and represents a significant price/time difference. Also in KL, you can't beat the 70km trip in 25 minutes that their high speed train guarantees.

KL doesn't provide a good analogy to the situation at BKK. Those KL trains are unlike anything else in their system and run only between two points: KLIA and KL Sentral The trains have an exceptionally large capacity for baggage but cost about ten times the fare of the normal subway and monorail system, and there are only two hotels of any quality at or within walking distance of KL Sentral station.

A better analogy is Singapore. Regular mass transit cars run on a spur of one of the mail lines all the way out to Changi airport. When you arrive you pay a normal-level fare, you change trains once and then you've got access to the entire transit network and there's plenty of room for your bags. Only at some peak hours and at some stations is this awkward when managing one or more large bags.

The analogy still falls apart though on a couple of practical points. For one thing, Singaporeans have graduated from "Mass Transit 101" and understand keeping away from the doors, moving to the center of the car and so on, whereas Bangkokians have not. And the Singapore transit system designers understood the need to provide escalators in both directions to get departing passengers to street level whether up or down. As most BTS stations don't provide a SkyBridge and only steps down to street level, the last segment from public transit to hotel is an order of magnitude more arduous in Bangkok than it needs to be.

I was with you there till you got to the Singapore analogy

There is a size limit for baggage on the MRT in Singapore and it does not look very large to me. I am talking about the MRT'sd in town it may well be different in the Changi link and i have seen plenty of backpackers with packs larger than the size given on posters.

I must diverge with you though about Singaporeans moving to the centre of the train and keeping away from the door as they bloody ell do not in many cases - it's a bloody nightmare and I have just taken to barging through them if they stand in front of the door or try to get on before I get off - a minority might move to the centre but the majority pack the door area as they do on buses - I use Singapore public transport every day

[dominique355]

Bangkok needs not only a Skytrain link from Suwannaphum to downtown, but also a link to Don Mueang, since many domestic flights depart from there now.

I drive often along the construction of the new line and it seems to me that work is progressing, although slowly. The Makkasan station looks like a huge thing, but from there, where do I go? Makkasan station is on a dirty little road along the even dirtier old railway track, somewhere behind Petchburi Road, noting but run-down "entertainment plaza" in the neighborhood.

[Payboy]

the makkasan site was chosen for the terminal station becuase that is the only large plot of land belonging to srt near the city centre.

one would expect that they shall have a functional meter taxi line at that station when it is ready along with a public bus terminal as well, in which case that site is not such a bad choice...

[Furbie]

Perhaps they've just done a case study and realised that airport rail links are notoriously under utilised - due to people's reluctance to cart baggage onto trains and then navigate an unfamiliar metro system whilst tired, irritable and frustrated enough from the flight.

I have to agree. The airport link is not necessary and will probably be hugely underutilized. There are two multi lane, limited access expressway routes to the airport which makes taking private car (plenty of parking) or taxi much more convenient from most places in Bangkok then lugging baggage in and out of a train, then a station and still end up (or start) in a taxi. This is especially true for business people going to/from the CBD area of Silom and Sathorn. The two stations in Bangkok will not be easy to get to, while you can easily get on expressway in several places and taking elevated through Bangna can be at terminal in less then 30 minutes.

TH

I totally agree for the business traveller they will continue with the taxi's / Limo - i get limo's now because i get a receipt and do not with a taxi as do all of my colleagues.

Travelling for leisure I get a taxi from the airport and uaually a limo to the airport from the hotel if i am in BKK

However there is the Lonely Planet crowd for want of a better term for that segment plus the budget traveller type who get the bus into town now who would use the link - they are still quite a big part of the market plus all those Thai;s who see people off at the airport or greet people who do not have their own transport.

Just think all those guys giving their sweethearts the taxi or even limo fare back into town - the giels will jump on the train and keep the money ;-)

What kind of business traveler are you? I am the kind who needs to arrive at the airport on time; often a problem as I am rushing out of my office last minute to get a flight, then bam, traffic. As for receipts, why would they be an issue, taxis in Thailand don’t give receipts anyway; so do what you do to expanse taxi rides.

Personally, I can’t wait for the airport rail link; no more sitting in traffic for an hour waiting to turn onto Suk because I got back to BKK in the middle of rush hour (assuming it will link to other mass transit). No more unpredictable timing getting to the airport. No more crazy drivers doing 140 and tailgating. They can’t get that ready fast enough for me.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Furbie

[p_brownstone]

One thing that concerns me about the Airport Link - and something which has received little attention in the media - is that there will actually be 2 Services using the same Tracks.

There is a direct, non-stop – Service from Makkasan to Suvannaphum, but there is another “City Line” which will stop at several Stations between Makkasan and Suvannaphum.

Since both use the same (one inbound one outbound) tracks, and to accomodate the different time each Service will obviously take to travel the total distance, there are “Passing Loops” into which – in theory – the slower train will “duck” to allow the non-stop service to pass.

That has to be a recipe for disaster in any Country – let alone a place like Bangkok.

Patrick

[thaihome]

Another important fact, expecpt for the final station at the railroad station, it will not connect to BTS or MRT.

As for the poster that complained about turning onto Suk from expressway during rush hour, just wait till you try to get to Suk from the Makkasan station, which means you have to cross Petchburi Road. I bet you would be able to drive from the airport to the JW Marriot in the time it will take you get there from the Makkasan station.

Oh, and about the Singaporean manners on public transport. What is the majority ethnic group in Singapore? Enough said...

TH