3m Baht Investment Visa Not Fully Grandfathered

[yoshiwara]

If I understand this correctly then there would not have been a problem if the Land Registry value had been 3m, which it isn't.

No doubt if the falang has no significant savings or access to income or some form of family/friends support he is truly stuffed, but believe that with some professional advice he can get hold of some top-up funds and pay some interest for the privilege. As for Thais being xenophobic, well how many Brits don't go on and on and on about 'bloody immigrants' in the UK?

[leoalex]

now you can see how immigrant life looks like. For thai/others immigrants in europe most is same (about visas/rules/changes), except two things - what most immigrants not have money and doing it not for fun...

Time to remove "pink glasses".

Edited September 20, 2007 by leoalex

[palm]

If I understand this correctly then there would not have been a problem if the Land Registry value had been 3m, which it isn't.

No doubt if the falang has no significant savings or access to income or some form of family/friends support he is truly stuffed, but believe that with some professional advice he can get hold of some top-up funds and pay some interest for the privilege. As for Thais being xenophobic, well how many Brits don't go on and on and on about 'bloody immigrants' in the UK?

I just renewed my Investment Visa this week. Relatively painless - just a 90 minute wait in the ticket queue at immigration.

The lady checked my TT3 AND Land Registry documents were correct and over the legal 3m baht requirement.

If, to avoid tax, someone enters into a side-deal to show a property was purchased for less than the Investment Visa's legally required amount on the Land Registry document, whose fault is that? Immigrations? I think not.

[jackr]

We should all understand that our western countries treat Asians in general even much worse then a thai treats his buffalo....

Codswallop! Ask those Asians who are married to Westerners living in the West if they have to go to the border or register their address every 90 days. While you're at it, also ask them if they can buy a house IN THEIR NAME.

Much of the visa/stay 'ruling' set by developing countries is only in retaliation to the way they are treated by our western countries. This is extremely stupid of course, but it needs a very strong govment and economy to resist the temptation and understand what are or should be the differences. I am not sure there is that much xenophoby although there is some. I think it is more at the level of 'tooth for tooht and eye for eye'. Lately , western countries have tightened their access for foreigners in a totally unrealistic and even sometimes scandalous way. Then don't ask yourself why rules get suddenly tightened in, for example, Thailand and farang heads get rolling. Ask your embassy why ?

The visa policy toward long-term farang in Thailand has nothing to do with the visa policy/tit-for-tat toward Thais in the West... //edit language//

[jackr]

Just my two cents: Always take legal advice from a reputable local law firm and avoid dealing with immigration directly. If you can not afford this, then better go home.

Of course Thailand is a real third world country (with some make up) including all the positive and negatve aspects about it:

Generally speaking everything can be arranged. Of course there is the aggresive and racist attitude from the "elite" towards us. This is understandable if we consider that our life partners are often from a low social background. Their sudden status gain is then perceived badly by the "elite" who systematically is discriminating the people of its own country (Isaan look down syndrom).

Of course many Thais are bad towards us, but they behave even worse among them. There is simply no more materialistic, short term money focused country than Thailand . But this can also be amusing (kind of going to a zoo) if you know how to deal with them - they are so transparent and predictable.

So let's relax and dont forget the hassle Thai people have when they after a long wait, are badly treated at our Consulates applying for a tourist visa.

Very funny post.

1. Third world countries exists only in your mind. Some kind of "democratic propaganda" - see we the best blablabla.

Or you think money rules everything? Not true at MOST cases! And current "1d world countries" have money only because was first in some subjects like licensing rules, selling poison (alcohol/tobacco) to everybody, etc.

Also this is not your personal achievements to be from '1world country' and be able to travel without visas everywhere where another peoples need visas, etc. When "3d world country" goverment (by your jargon) start see that more clearly and understand what here is not big difference between selfmade thai and farang, but second is same about cheat (overstay, illegally work, more troublemaking) and have 'born-rules' to travel everywhere where for thai it is hard - it start closing (still open for tourists, but more hard for peoples who want stay here without workjob/money).

Also why you choose to stay at "3 world country" where most peoples easy to going, more open, smiling and have MUCH better moods than any european?

2. QUOTE : "Of course there is the aggresive and racist attitude from the "elite" towards us."

European peoples also have racist attitudes to most of immigrants. common blablabla - "we the best, him go here to eat our bread".

Media support this confusing, posting lot of one-view news, articles/etc.

Also - how you think where source of racists from???

QUOTE "So let's relax and dont forget the hassle Thai people have when they after a long wait, are badly treated at our Consulates applying for a tourist visa."

So, don't be surprised if one day you find what country you liked was closed for you and you find what visa rules tighten every one day.

And one more time - "this is NOT YOUR personal achievements to be from '1world country')

PS : Is "aggresive and racist attitude" at quoted post"?

[eagleflyinghigh]

now you can see how immigrant life looks like. For thai/others immigrants in europe most is same (about visas/rules/changes), except two things - what most immigrants not have money and doing it not for fun...

Time to remove "pink glasses".

Thank you for finding my post funny !

Considering the problems Thai people create in different European countries working illegally in real jobs or in the "service industry" they are still treated fairly. The difference between the developed and the third world is mostly in the attitude and the brain. Clear and transparent rules for immigration, no corruption and the opportunity to appeal are achievements unknown in Thailand. Also open racism is a serious offence in Europe and there are laws governing these cases.

Against the rampant and disgusting racism towards "farang" (already the word in itself is insane) we are without defence.

[Firefan]

No. It had to be foreign money transfered in as this promotion was created in order to increase foreign investment. I.e. any increase in value later have no influence. Cheers!

I was told that the law has changed and that they no longer consider the price you paid for the condo, but instead look at a price which is assessed by the government.

And again I ask the question, does this system work the other way around (i.e. bought a condo years ago for 2 million and it's now assessed at a value of 4 million)? I'm just guessing this operates at any given moment in whatever manner allows immigrations to deny an extension and weed out yet another farang.

[Firefan]

Only investment approved for the visa were condo, time deposit or gov. bonds(and I never met anyone who figured out how to invest directly in gov. bonds, and what proof that would require). I.e. as then only real other option is cash deposit, the investment value can not slide.

But should one SPEND some/all of the 3M (or sell the condo) then, naturally, one should report it to emmigration (one signs a paper at each extension about that) and the visa will be cancelled and is gone forever. I presume one will then get 7 days to leave the country, same as with a non-em-B visa based on work permit.

Logpoacher managed to top up with 750k but plan to spend from them - that is as such not allowed but I doubt they bother checking during the year. Also sounds like Logpoacher is planning to leave after this year. It might however be a problem should he want to extend next year, even with a new top-up of money, after total has dropped below 3M Baht during the year(which they can see in bank book Etc.). This is not like the retirement visa where one can spend and then just fill up each year.

Cheers!

What if you invested in other things besides a condo, and the value of those investments took a slide.... Which is very believable in Thailand. Does the falange get the boot for that too?

Probably... what a place. what a sham.

[leoalex]

now you can see how immigrant life looks like. For thai/others immigrants in europe most is same (about visas/rules/changes), except two things - what most immigrants not have money and doing it not for fun...

Time to remove "pink glasses".

Thank you for finding my post funny !

Considering the problems Thai people create in different European countries working illegally in real jobs or in the "service industry" they are still treated fairly. The difference between the developed and the third world is mostly in the attitude and the brain. Clear and transparent rules for immigration, no corruption and the opportunity to appeal are achievements unknown in Thailand. Also open racism is a serious offence in Europe and there are laws governing these cases.

Against the rampant and disgusting racism towards "farang" (already the word in itself is insane) we are without defence.

Most of european peoples who owned bar here - work illegally inside. Also most of private property for rent in Pattaya/Samui/Phuket - just drink some beer with owner and listen stories.

Attitude : as i said before - europe/us was first in licensing rules, selling poison (tobacco, alcohol) and weapon to another nations. Also developed rules to prevent competitions in this and another topics from another countries. Much more here - but no time right now to explain more.

Brain :

1. approx at all european/us countries have specialist visa programs - like homeoffice at uk, blue cards at germany, etc. Another thing what that program want to get maximum for possibly less price.

2. Lot of exrussia, india immigrants work at science sphere (locally or remotely). Not so much of local specialists here.

3. it up to person how him using him brain. For one can be enough school for other university is too small knowledge.

4. see most popular jobs for locals at european countries :

a. layer (no questions - just moneyjob)

b. medicine (developing, manufacturing, selling drugs/medicine services. (medicine/drugs is overpriced so much, also drugs often hot help - but damage health)

c. marketing (our jeans/beer/whysky/etc) is N1. cheating customers is common.

d. farming (low life like your jargon) - get goverment money support. and goverment purchase overproduction to prices not go down. (is it monopoly isn't it?)

e. small business - open bar/restaraunt

etc.

I write this to let you understand what here is NO any difference between peoples (from one country to another). Only one thing make you be happy - propaganda - 'we N1'. UK = we have many money and strongest pound. China - we can broke dollar and have big army, usa - we business country, have many high-educated immigrants, most biggest army and if we need something - can win it. Russia - we have good army, lot of specialists from past ussr, oil. etc,etc,etc. Need travel a much to start see that things.

QUOTE : "Clear and and transparent rules for immigration, no corruption and the opportunity to appeal are achievements unknown in Thailand. Also open racism is a serious offence in Europe and there are laws governing these cases."

Show me clear and transparent rules for immigration for ANY european country.

1. Example from real life. By laws pretendent to schengen visa must show his financial benefits. Basically it mean only paper from bank about money counts. But ALL embassies asking to provide bank statements for 6 monthes. But... what about privacy???

2. Most in visa processing based only on visa officer opinion. If him decide not allow visa - his not need to explain why!!! But him still keep visa money.

3. Most of visa requirements based on that what visa applicant lost lots of money in case of visa rejection. Example : need to provide confirmed airtickets, insurance (paid), hotel reservation (paid). If visa rejected - applicant just lost his money.

4. Somebody at this forum write really truth - when thai go europe embassy (not based how rich are him, how many universities his finished, how many success his have at him life (money/business/etc) - visa officers see on him like on buffalo.

Also I have one friend from Ukraine - his sayed me simular stories about european visas.

You want to say it just racists sit in embassies? and clear rules not work against him?

but when some european bips (i mean real bips) go thailand without visa- immigration can say him only 'welcome for 1 month'

5. Also getting visa is not guaranteed what you go inside country. Everything on decision of immigration officer/passport control. i read at the net lot of stories (also have hollywood movie about it).

i readed about cases at usa and czech republic. some iran lady go visit czech for 1 month for medical treatment with baby and have medical visa from embassy. but passport control stop she and she spend 1 week in airport 'nocountry' zone.

Corruption : this is very funny. Visas and corruption is same things. Lots of european embassies was found at corruption (some officially, some cases you can find at forums). Also check internet how many 'visa services' to get european visas. Some help you to make proper documents, some guarantee 100% success. Just for example I seen 2 or 3 that services at realworld at Pattaya.

Also about corruption of european politics - check internet. Something in process in italia, etc, etc, etc. Just start search google for that topic.

Farangs: It only matter of fact how you think about this word. In europe all arab peoples is muslims (no matter about country), asians (thai/japan/china/etc). So thai 'farang' is nothing new here.

[leoalex]

also to my post. One my friend tell me story how his travel visa to germany was rejected. Him show pretty good sum in bank near 4millions bahts, property, and lot of visas in his passporte and new eu country long term residence business visa. his visa was rejected - because was said by immigration officer - 'you travel so much'.

Edited September 21, 2007 by leoalex

[tracer]

Did you pay tax on a property transfer of over 3m.. If not then they are catching you for playing (commonly used) loopholes and avoiding tax..

I know everyone does but risky for a condo / investment visa..

As far as I know owner normally is paying these taxes. If yours didnt I see no reason why YOU as buyer should have a problem for what should have paid or declared. Hace you checked with the company what the staus is??

[tracer]

lets be honest: I wouldnt give a Thai man a visum if he wanted to clean toilets as for sure he would be doing illigal things as soon as he was in. Thai ladies: I see no problem getting them in.

Obviously a problem is all the east european maffia... They are EEC but if they check them out it would save a lot of money on police...

[Firefan]

Eh...I think we lost track somewhere..racism and poison sellers..? he,he - gotta love TV! . ANYWAY; please understand that Logpoacher (or I for that matter) did NOT plan to use any "tax loop holes" and simply bought a condo for more than 3M Baht in the belief that it meant we could get the visa. Later it turns out for Logpoacher that the land office price (tax payment calculated on that) was filed below 3m Baht.

THIS IS PERFECTLY NORMAL AND ACCEPTED as the tax-price is a conservative governmental number just like we know it from Western countries. I.e. it would not be fair or practical that market swings made one pay too much tax compared to market value - wherefore the land office price is set low, and only slowly increase.

Problem is that in Logpoachers case it was in his interest, that the full market value at purchase was put in - but he (or I) were never ASKED what we wanted the amount to be. Land office probably just accepted whatever the agent put in, as long as close to other filings from the same building.

One could argue, that Logpoacher should bring that up with the AGENT and not emmigration as not their fault - but agent can not change a thing, and emmigration have not been good at publishing that the 3M Baht requirement was based on land office price.

Finally as mentioned before; the promotion was created to bring in foreign capital for the condo market. Should the visa then not logically be based on the foreign capital brough into the condo (and easily verified at gov. stamped sales contract as well as filing at land office - both prices are in filing!)?

Anyway; I am making too much sense now and will slam a few tequilas now to diffuse that! Cheers!

Edited September 21, 2007 by Firefan

[LivinLOS]

==> THAIGENE2

The rules are different for members of the ASEAN countries about visa, rules for stay etc... plus some bilateral agreements with INdonesia and Malaysia.

We should all understand that our western countries treat Asians in general even much worse then a thai treats his buffalo.... Go stay for a day in your embassy in BKK and see and listen to all what happens there and interview Thai people that come out with all their frustration. Much of the visa/stay 'ruling' set by developing countries is only in retaliation to the way they are treated by our western countries. This is extremely stupid of course, but it needs a very strong govment and economy to resist the temptation and understand what are or should be the differences. I am not sure there is that much xenophoby although there is some. I think it is more at the level of 'tooth for tooht and eye for eye'. Lately , western countries have tightened their access for foreigners in a totally unrealistic and even sometimes scandalous way. Then don't ask yourself why rules get suddenly tightened in, for example, Thailand and farang heads get rolling. Ask your embassy why ?

Ha, this is the kind of thing that could be brought to the press also. Not only the wrong doing in Thailand or elsewhere.

Sorry but this is complete crock..

The reason there are controls on Thais heading to the west is the vast amount that cannot support themselves while there and will work or make use of the free benefits available to them.. None of which are available freely here.. THATS the essential difference... One provides enourmous amounts in benefits and opportunities and in the 3rd world there are almost no benefits and few opportunities so they have to be paid for with 1st world earnt money.

Secondly going to Europe isnt that tough.. I have taken a few different girls there on long holidays, All over Europe and UK.. Wifey had a residents permit (could work, could own land, was a simple and clear process to getting a passport and being a citizen) my sister in law is exactly the same, lives and works in Europe, now is a euro resident and citizen and has a passport for life no matter what happens between her and her husband. Sister has imported her Thai children there to take up on the free education opportunities that are made available, the free hospitals that she had her second child in, etc etc etc.

[LivinLOS]

1. Third world countries exists only in your mind. Some kind of "democratic propaganda" - see we the best blablabla.

Or you think money rules everything? Not true at MOST cases! And current "1d world countries" have money only because was first in some subjects like licensing rules, selling poison (alcohol/tobacco) to everybody, etc.

Also this is not your personal achievements to be from '1world country' and be able to travel without visas everywhere where another peoples need visas, etc. When "3d world country" goverment (by your jargon) start see that more clearly and understand what here is not big difference between selfmade thai and farang, but second is same about cheat (overstay, illegally work, more troublemaking) and have 'born-rules' to travel everywhere where for thai it is hard - it start closing (still open for tourists, but more hard for peoples who want stay here without workjob/money).

This is comedy gold.. licensing rules.. Selling alcohol..

Nothing to do with innovation, invention, work ethic, lack of corruption, free and fair trade practices, effective legal systems of checks and balances, transparent and clear laws, legal protections of equality and against rascim. etc etc etc.. Those things had no part in creating wealth.. Obviously Europeans putting those things in place in Singapore didnt make any difference ??

I sympathise that you dont have the free right to travel, but thats far more to do with economic ability to not be a drain on the economies than anything else. Thais with real money generally get visa's..

[LivinLOS]

1. Third world countries exists only in your mind. Some kind of "democratic propaganda" - see we the best blablabla.

Or you think money rules everything? Not true at MOST cases! And current "1d world countries" have money only because was first in some subjects like licensing rules, selling poison (alcohol/tobacco) to everybody, etc.

Also this is not your personal achievements to be from '1world country' and be able to travel without visas everywhere where another peoples need visas, etc. When "3d world country" goverment (by your jargon) start see that more clearly and understand what here is not big difference between selfmade thai and farang, but second is same about cheat (overstay, illegally work, more troublemaking) and have 'born-rules' to travel everywhere where for thai it is hard - it start closing (still open for tourists, but more hard for peoples who want stay here without workjob/money).

This is comedy gold.. licensing rules.. Selling alcohol..

Nothing to do with innovation, invention, work ethic, lack of corruption, free and fair trade practices, effective legal systems of checks and balances, transparent and clear laws, legal protections of equality and against rascim. etc etc etc.. Those things had no part in creating wealth.. Obviously Europeans putting those things in place in Singapore didnt make any difference ??

I sympathise that you dont have the free right to travel, but thats far more to do with economic ability to not be a drain on the economies than anything else. Thais with real money generally get visa's..

[eagleflyinghigh]

Nothing to do with innovation, invention, work ethic, lack of corruption, free and fair trade practices, effective legal systems of checks and balances, transparent and clear laws, legal protections of equality and against rascim. etc etc etc.. Those things had no part in creating wealth.. Obviously Europeans putting those things in place in Singapore didnt make any difference ??

I sympathise that you dont have the free right to travel, but thats far more to do with economic ability to not be a drain on the economies than anything else. Thais with real money generally get visa's..

Your post is excellent dear LivinLOS - you just name it all. I like especially your remark about Singapore!

Let's face it: Thailand is a (pleasant) mess, makes it kind of human.

Leoalex is contradicting himself when mentioning the Europeans owning bars and working illegally in them. Why such a perfect country same Thailand is not enforcing the national Laws in their case and is instead succumbing to corruption. It would be perfectly legal to close down the whole "special service" industry.

I also sympathise with Leoalex frustration. Let's wish them good luck for at least restoring some kind of democracy and stop the exploitation of the poor.

Concerning their policy towards us, they will have to balance carefully: One can not just have our money without us being physically present - despite this logic they seem to dream exactly about this . Farang money but no farang!

[LivinLOS]

Let's face it: Thailand is a (pleasant) mess, makes it kind of human.

In 100% agreement.. I kinda like the insanity, the unpredicability, they way things are never simple and clear to achieve, the way you can pop out to post a letter and end up returning 8 hours later not having done it.. I have the same fond feelings of bemusement in arab africa too and I would be gnawing my own feet off with boredom living where everything always worked like it should.

But for all that I enjoy it, it severely hampers productivity and the creation of wealth.

[Morty]

also to my post. One my friend tell me story how his travel visa to germany was rejected. Him show pretty good sum in bank near 4millions bahts, property, and lot of visas in his passporte and new eu country long term residence business visa. his visa was rejected - because was said by immigration officer - 'you travel so much'.

Rubbish!

If your friend has a visa like you state, i.e. "long term residence business visa"

I take it to mean your friend has a work permit, or is granted his residence permit as a member of a family of EU origin. Either way he does not need to apply for visa to other EU/Schengen countries.

I suggest you read this link relating to Schengen visa

www.skillclear.co.uk/schengen.asp

at the bottom it states:

"When your residence permit is issued you also get a schengen visa. Remember this means you can only work in the country for which you have a permit but can visit all other countries on business meetings and as a tourist. You might be able to do a little work in schengen countries but not full time.

You will be allowed a maximum of 90 days a year travelling round the EU under the schengen visa but then must return to the country where your permit is rather than back to your homeland."

and then you tell us why he had to even apply for a German visa?

Since this tread is about investment visas, they are also available in the EU these are the UK requirements:

Duration:

A British Investor's visa will initially be granted for a duration of 12 months. A successful application will be based upon the demonstration of your assets and upon your intention to invest in the United Kingdom. The investment does not need to be in place before the British visa for immigration is issued, however, investment funds must have been transferred to the United Kingdom within three months of your arrival.

Upon the expiry of your initial 12-month grant of leave, you may apply for a UK visa extension for an additional three years. In most cases, this application will be successful if the 3-month transfer of funds period was met, your total investment is still worth in excess of £1 million, and any reduction in its value has occurred only through share price fluctuations.

If visa extensions are granted then candidates may apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK (ILR), usually known as permanent residence after four years. 1 year beyond this, successful applicants may apply for British naturalization as a UK citizen.

Eligibility:

A business visa application must be applied for from outside the country and will be subject to the satisfaction of the following criteria:

- You must be in possession of at least £1 million to invest in the United Kingdom. At least £750,000 of this must be invested in Unit Trusts and/or private companies. The money may not be invested in off shore companies, property investment companies, or in banks or building societies, however, the remaining 250,000 (or more) may be invested as you see fit.

- You may not seek employment or undertake work in Britain other than managing your investments.

- You must consider the United Kingdom to be your main home and accordingly spend at least 50% of your time in the country.

- Documentary evidence of the funds at your disposal and your planned investments will need to be provided.

Dependants:

As with UK Entrepreneur visas for those wishing to set up a company in Great Britain, the investment based business immigration route is intended as a permanent settlement option. As a result, spouse immigration and dependent immigration are provided for by this service. Family immigration is permitted for your spouse or unmarried partner and any dependent children, and like a marriage visa or De Facto visa, often referred to as an unmarried partner visa your dependents will have the same rights to education, healthcare and the opportunity to seek and undertake employment as British citizens.

So, the way I see it both EU and Thailand has more or less the same requirements for an investment visa: Cough up 20-25 years of local vages, invest the money in the local economy, and you are set.

[LivinLOS]

See clear fast and easy..

What ratio of 1 mil GBP is factored into what median UK income is ?? I bet its less than 3mil baht and Thai median income is..

But in the UK its then a step to PR and has the full rights of citizenship and can bring spouses and family AND claim multiple benefits. Plus your treated equally in the eyes of the law and cannot be withdrawn after that term.

So in effect its actually much easier and better deal for long stay even for a Thai to do the investment route there than here. Why people seems to claim that not to be the fact baffles me.

[atlas_shrugged]

leoalex says:

"Corruption : this is very funny. Visas and corruption is same things. Lots of european embassies was found at corruption (some officially, some cases you can find at forums). Also check internet how many 'visa services' to get european visas. Some help you to make proper documents, some guarantee 100% success. Just for example I seen 2 or 3 that services at realworld at Pattaya.

Also about corruption of european politics - check internet. Something in process in italia, etc, etc, etc. Just start search google for that topic."

Leoalex, you're really suffering under a string of misconceptions about Europe and the US, so much so that I'm sure you've never been there. That must be the source of your anger. Nevertheless, if you do manage to visit the US, when you get stopped by the highway patrol police, I highly suggest that you ask if an immediate cash payment could make the problem go away. Just try it! Really!

Also, although my partner was treated horribly the first time we applied for a US tourist visa, when we went back 3 years later and she was now the mother of a US citizen, they immediately gave her a 10-year multi-entry tourist visa with just a basic 3-4 page application. Thailand has recently _removed_ this right, as I understand it.

-Atlas

[thaigene2]

==> THAIGENE2

The rules are different for members of the ASEAN countries about visa, rules for stay etc... plus some bilateral agreements with INdonesia and Malaysia.

We should all understand that our western countries treat Asians in general even much worse then a thai treats his buffalo.... Go stay for a day in your embassy in BKK and see and listen to all what happens there and interview Thai people that come out with all their frustration. Much of the visa/stay 'ruling' set by developing countries is only in retaliation to the way they are treated by our western countries. This is extremely stupid of course, but it needs a very strong govment and economy to resist the temptation and understand what are or should be the differences. I am not sure there is that much xenophoby although there is some. I think it is more at the level of 'tooth for tooht and eye for eye'. Lately , western countries have tightened their access for foreigners in a totally unrealistic and even sometimes scandalous way. Then don't ask yourself why rules get suddenly tightened in, for example, Thailand and farang heads get rolling. Ask your embassy why ?

Ha, this is the kind of thing that could be brought to the press also. Not only the wrong doing in Thailand or elsewhere.

Flyer

I don't disagree about how other countries treat migrants. But we're talking about the Thai government ENCOURAGING retirees to come here, buy a place, then they - a few years later - they say 'thanks' now we want more of your money - cause we're changing the rules. If you don't cough up, you can get lost - tough luck about your condo/leased house/whatever. In english that's called betrayal and deceit. is there a Thai word for that? Or do we just see 'influence and patronage and 'asian values' when we look that up in the dictionary??

[THAIJAMES]

Instead of putting 700,000 in the bank sitting there useless consider buying another condo and renting it out.

[spencerdharmagrafix]

I have just returned from attempting to extend my permission to stay for another year, based on owning a condo worth more than 3M baht. As everyone probably knows, this was abolished for new applicants last year and intially it was stated that existing aliens in this category would also not be given any further extensions. However, after a lot of panic, this was changed and existing users were "grandfathered" in. Subsequently, I extended my permission to stay by one year.

Today, I was not expecting any trouble, but I was refused an extension. I was told that the law has changed and that they no longer consider the price you paid for the condo, but instead look at a price which is assessed by the government. On my receipt from the Land Registry these figures are given as ราคาทุนทรัพย์ 3,500,000 and ราคาประเมิน 2,270,000. Effectively, they now consider that my investment is 730,000 baht too low. If I put this amount in a bank account, they would give me permission to stay (initially they said I would have to put 3M baht in a bank account, but then one of them produced a procedural manual and decided that the investment does not have to be in one unit). They emphasised that this amount would have to stay permanently in the bank, and produced a letter in English to this effect.

I pointed out, and they agreed, that I have had four previous extensions granted on this basis but they stated again that "Immigration has changed the law" (this was said in English, twice).

Needless to say, I do not have a spare 730,000 baht which I can put in a bank and not touch for ever, so I now have 26 days left in Thailand to sort this out.

Has anyone encountered this problem or does anyone have any ideas?

YES i have a suggestion - i am married to thai wife and also cant get a year visa cos i haven't enough on the bank..so what i did is to pay a course for Thai language with www.thaiwalen.com and got a years visa!

the ed status doesnt let you work..also they dont give a whole year anymore ( it just changed the law AGAIN TO DO US UP THE BACKSIDE AS THAI IMMIGRATION IS LOVINGLY DEDICATED TO hassling farang and making us feel that only our money and not us are welcome).

Instead you get the 4 times 3 month visa..also the school cost a damned 29 thousand baht which is a rip off as they told me i wasnt even allowed to attend the school (on the premise that my thai was already perfect - but real reasdon being that the seats were all full and if i didnt attend they could take another 29 thou off the next idiot).

Anyway...if you only have 29 days i would go find a school thats cheaper than the walen one (times square on the 3rd floor) and get your student visas.

If the Thais dont want us to fiddle things they should stop making impossible laws they must be nuts sometimes i wish Myanmar and the likes would open up for tourism/immigration cos id bounce straight over there and hope all the other thai expats do too just so thailand falls into a financial pothole and realises that they treated their prime source of income as a piece of cow dung

I personally am sick of hearing Immigration officers aswking me in an ominous manner "when are you going home"

i always answer that im not going homw which makes them real sour.

Surprised they dont do the goose step too!

Hate 'em they are an embarrassment to their king and country for the way they mistreat tourists and "immigrant"

(i say immigrants in dittos, because actually nearly all immigrants/husbands of thai wives are forced to stay on tourist or education visas because they deliberately make life impossible...

Anyone uyp for a demonstration with hundreds of farang outside the Thai MINISTRY OF IMMIGRATION (PREVENTION) with placards to protest?

I would participate because the only thing that will cause a change is to embarrass them internationally.

It's getting too much

the other reason for preventing the one year visas is that if you stay more than 90 days you can register as resident and after 3rd year of one year visas continuously you can apply for pewrmanent residence

but they dont give you the one year visa..they split it into 4 90 day units

so we are fxxxxxed if we dont do something instead of cowering behind our passport.

time for a DEMO?

who dares wins

Edited September 27, 2007 by spencerdharmagrafix

[deanosan3]

That sucks man about the changes in visa laws. It really does. And this thread really isn't about that as it is with the whole picture. The bad side of the good.

When you think about it, our western countries are all messed up in many ways. That is why we are here. If England was fair and hard work was met with reward, many of us would be content just to come here a few times a year. But the western disease is what the Thais don't want happening to their country: loads of immigrants coming in and changing their ways- even if they are selfish relative to how we think. In our case (Europeans) wherever we go, we drive prices up, take the local women, bring in loads of money and create resentment that way. In Europe, USA, UK and elsewhere the vast majority of unskilled immigrants come in, drive property prices down, don't share their women, burden the system and create resentment THAT way. Yin and Yang. Nobody likes an unwelcome guest. And when you have people side by side seperated by such extremes, expect extreme measures.

This is not racism. This is realism. When we live cheaply, ride our 400cc bikes with our sunglasses on with one of their birds on the back showing loads of leg, what do you think happens in their minds? Right or Wrong. And yes, it doesn't help that they are taught to dislike us in schools. But move to Indonesia? OK. But when our numbers there hit critical mass, it will happen all over agian. And possibly worse, DEFINITELY WORSE, because they will throw religion into the mix. All hosts give, and temporary guests receive, the best treatment. But stay a little while, drink milk straight from the bottle and leave your socks and underpants laying around and inevitably, the inevitable happens. To me, the Thais WILL ALWAYS remain PERFECT HOSTS. I can't think of a better place to spend a HOLIDAY period(.)

Does this help anyone in the short term? No. But while we waste away in paradise, our home countries our suffering from our own indifference which some of us brought here. Some of us are here because we simply like the place and the people true. But, there is a side to all of us that is here for the ease of it ALL. You know what I'm talking about. To the Thais, this is not a game, it is not about scraping a few hundred thousand Baht together to live for another year. It is REAL. They kill each other for less that a hundred dollars. They'll lob your shaft off if you cheat on them. They may smile, but that is always as long as they get their own way.

It's a shame it has come to this. It wasn't always like this. But with globalisation, we can change house to Bangkok as easy as we can from Leeds to Harrogate. Instead of leaving town, we leave the country, the continent. We are in each other's hair now and coming from another part of the world doesn't mean jack. It is just as easy as coming from the other side of town.

Don't know if anybody feels the same way. But that is reality the way I see it. PERFECT HOSTS.

Anyway, time for another Singha for me. Sorry if I've offended anyone. I really am, but I I've read and re-read and can't see anything I disagree with.

Cheers

[torrenova]

I take your point about the UK becoming unbearable but in the UK, we, the little people, have no say in stopping immigration, stopping people claiming on your welfare state and so on, so we move, we leave because we cannot win by staying there.

In Thailand, the top brass be it military of elected (sic), want our money but they do not want us. They hav yet worked out a way to achieve that so they screw around with the rules. These people are so far removed financially from the rank and file they cannot understand the poor. They throw out chicken feed bribes at election time and so retain their position. Then they fill their boots.

All we ask is a level playing field where we can live, retire or do business without destroying the tourist industry and retirement sector which, like it or not, is why Thailand exists for the vast majority of the planet.

[deanosan3]

==> THAIGENE2

The rules are different for members of the ASEAN countries about visa, rules for stay etc... plus some bilateral agreements with INdonesia and Malaysia.

We should all understand that our western countries treat Asians in general even much worse then a thai treats his buffalo.... Go stay for a day in your embassy in BKK and see and listen to all what happens there and interview Thai people that come out with all their frustration. Much of the visa/stay 'ruling' set by developing countries is only in retaliation to the way they are treated by our western countries. This is extremely stupid of course, but it needs a very strong govment and economy to resist the temptation and understand what are or should be the differences. I am not sure there is that much xenophoby although there is some. I think it is more at the level of 'tooth for tooht and eye for eye'. Lately , western countries have tightened their access for foreigners in a totally unrealistic and even sometimes scandalous way. Then don't ask yourself why rules get suddenly tightened in, for example, Thailand and farang heads get rolling. Ask your embassy why ?

Ha, this is the kind of thing that could be brought to the press also. Not only the wrong doing in Thailand or elsewhere.

Flyer

I don't disagree about how other countries treat migrants. But we're talking about the Thai government ENCOURAGING retirees to come here, buy a place, then they - a few years later - they say 'thanks' now we want more of your money - cause we're changing the rules. If you don't cough up, you can get lost - tough luck about your condo/leased house/whatever. In english that's called betrayal and deceit. is there a Thai word for that? Or do we just see 'influence and patronage and 'asian values' when we look that up in the dictionary??

If you look at who is treating Thais bad in the UK embassy, it is normally other Thais...those local hi-so types that feel they have earned their prestigious job 'at the embassy' and don't want any of their kin(d) experiencing the same perks and priveleges that they enjoy. Why? Just look at how people treat each other in this part of the world. No need to read a dozen books or the newspaper everyday. See how fast the smiles disappear after they're given. 2 seconds max. And who could genuinely smile all day like that? Ever been to a restaurant and watch your Thai girlfriend STARE at you when you leave a 100Baht after a good meal. It's almost as if to say 'I could have made better use of that'. Then again, what kind of girl am I dating!? It's always the little things. And it's hilarious how they always go for the cheapest price expecting the most quality. It's not like the way here is to help a fellow man up, unless it is to escape a tsunami. In cases like that, you do see some real humanism. Until the rebuillding contracts come around and property claims are asserted and then it's back to the same old sneakers. But yes, that is why we travel. It is not so much to experience other cultures as it is to learn about ours. Subconsciously whether we admit it or not, we make judgements, little decisions, and decision whether our ways are better or worse than those we're experiencing. the intention SHOULD NOT be to make every place the same with a McD's and a Starbucks on every corner. It baffles me why a person would sell everything they have to come here expecting it all to be the samet; as if rules that apply in the Outter Hebrides or Jacksonville apply in Bangkok. But we all make mistakes. That is part of the learning process as well. I won't let my dirty washing out here. There isn't a washer big enough.

We were lied to at school mate, we're not all the same. And thank God for that. I like how they live day to day and how thinking hurts the brain. Could use a little bit of that in the upper third also

[lapamita]

what thais speak when they cant go further

"THIS IS THAILAND ,NOT YOUR COUNTRY ,IF YOU NOT LIKE, CAn go back your ccountry".,,

or

" FOR WHAT YOU CARE SUKERPUK ,THIS UP TO THAI,NOT YOUR PROBLEM"

THAILOGIC...CANT BE CHANGED

somebody hear befrore????"

LAST year on 24.09.2006 i make as consequence when i hear about new laws visa

- i sold 4 condos,,, just 2 left, and only one for sale

- all bankdeposits going to singapore ( ohh get creditcard there what not possible in thailand)

-clearing my safedepositbox at bangkokbank ( nearly cleard of valueables)

and i am even thinking about selling car ( taxi here is even cheaper and no hassle)

and when it come more worse, i just go ! 6 month thaialnd and 3 month spain and philippines

finished...............

the last 12 month i was only spending money on food,sex,drink....................and i am very kiniau now on tips or whatever,, no news tv,furnish or wallpapper just 0.00

kiniau now ,...why ???? before i am a good boy ,,,,good tips or whatever,, wen i have problems ,the same people give a shit on and the rest the unwelcome due to visarules

thanks to taxsin ,......i hope they force the arestwarrants against him

[relayer]

I haven't really followed this thread but what's the current consensus/expectation on the whole grandfathering clause issue? Eventual phase out?

[gamerdude]

The 3m bahr investment still seems like a good deal. Unfortunately, people get screwed from time to time. But if everyone was screwed, then nobody would be here. In fact, when talking with most foreigners, they seems to talk about how great it is to be here. Sure, the laws change, locals do rotten deals, and recourse is minimal - but everyone knows that when they come here. If you didn't know, then you didn't read enough about Thailand before you came, and it's your own ###### fault.

People get screwed no matter where you are in the world. If you decide to settle in a country where you know the rules change everyday, and you aren't prepared to leave on a moments notice (less than 7 days), such as in times of total economic collapse, war, or whatever, again, it's your own ###### fault.

Invested in fancy TV's, furniture, computers, etc? Can't carry it all with you on the plane? Who's fault is that?

I get fed up with all the bitching from people about how Thailand sucks. It's usually from the same people who continue to stay in Thailand.

Like people in the USA or UK say to foreigners: if you don't like it, leave.

Makes sense to me.