Thai/farang Young/old Relationships

[thomo]

Sorry, I'll leave one more piece of wisdom.

Was with a girl I see regularly enough a few nights back, a topic about 1.5 million baht came up for some reason, and we weren't in the best of moods and speaking our frue feelings.

Me: 'What would you do with 1.5m B?'

Her: 'I'd go into business with my friend (who has a few already)'

Me: 'Oh, not with me eh?'

Her:'No! we don't know what the future holds'.

2 days later and she was doing that lovey dovey thing that always makes me (and presumably others who've been here a little while) laugh.

Her: 'I love you so much, when do you think it'll be time for us to get married'

Me: Laugh

Her: 'Oh you don't love me'.

Me:'Sure I do babe, but hey, we don't know what the future holds right?'

Her: silence.

[teacup]

If the OP is such a good catch, why is he still single at the age of 49?

After all he’s been talking(bragging?) that he’s…..rich, good looking, highly educated, successful in what he’s doing…blah blah

Make me wonder about his past as well as the girl’s...........then again it's not my life/future we're talking here

[Prakanong]

If you think about it Maigo is right. What is worth having is worth paying for. Even in our home countries when we were chasing beaver we had to pay for dinner and drinks for a few nights or more before you found out if you would get "lucky" or not. If the girl was too easy (cheap) then you would not see her again because she was a sl**. If she was too hard to get then you would label her as a tease.

There are good girls here and my advice is if you want her to stay that way then keep her away from most of the other girls married to falangs here in thailand. You also have to be prepared for the jealousy.

I will leave it at that except to point out one obvious point. How many of you have been ripped off by someone you did not trust? If you did not trust them in the beginning then you did not let them get close enough to you to be able to rip you off. You kept your guard up. The best con men gain your trust first. Then they strike.

As far as wives are concerned things may be great now but who knows what will happen in the future. Sometimes people change.

Couple of good points there, we went back to england for almost 3 years, we met other thais ,i will say most were ex bgs, .my wife isnt, i asked her one day why dont you mix more with other thai women, her relpy was ,all they want to do is compare what they have and brag about it,.this and jealousy does seem to come from the ex bgs,. ill probably get some stick for this but the friends i have with non bar related partners do not have this jealousy thing, it seems to stem from a lack of trust brought about by what they have seen of western men in their former employment,.

My observations differed from your in a group of them I knew in Edinburgh

I would have said 50-50 BG's and not. About the same proportion still with their partner - some messing about and some well into the jealousy and gossip thing

Each sample ie ex-bg's and not fell into the camps of not being good girls and those that were pretty much equally.

I used to label it the "Crabs in a bucket syndrome" - some of them hated others getting on and pulled them back in like crabs do to an escaping crab from the bucket -

I do not reckon its the ex-employment alone that would cause lack of trust or insecurity. Of course it will have n affect but so will a unfaithful partnet in the past, a father who mistreat their mother or brothers with their family - poverty will also come into play - mono-causal factors are pretty rare in the human psyche

[Thehedonist]

Yes here we go again!!!!

The age old question..the facts..Shes a 21 year old full time University student graduation in May 08. She just completed her 13 week hotel mamangement training prgm ata top BKK hotel. Her mind is older...She lives in BKK and I support her. Me I'm a 49 year old practicing atty living in the USA in BKK 5-6 times a year 3 weeks each time. I look (really.. thanks dad for the good genes 10 years younger and and in good shape 163lbs 5'10. I have all my thick drk brown hair . She's tall for a Thai and comes in at 44kilos. We have been together for almost 2 years.

We have a blast when I'm there and we travel in and outside Thailand, I spoil her on the holidays, ..Her Engish is about 80% and we plan to apply for a USA student visa for the upcoming year for an ESL for professionals course. I have sowed some rather wild oats in BKK and am really to take it easy and enter a new phase of my life..really. And she has laid down the law..screw around and she's gone!!! I plan to work maybe 7 more years in the USA going and coming as I do and then and bring a $ mill to retire. I'm ready to pop the question and shes waiting...is there anyone here that can talk me down??? Do we have a chance..I'd really like to hear from the experts here..

Thanks

Lawyers 99% snakes in the grass ! Beautifull 20 something Thai girl who finds older man 99% snakes in the grass ! Made for one another......... enjoy whislt you can ! And I mean that in the nicest possible sense

[OlRedEyes]

You are a lawyer, you know the risks. Take insurance on financial and emotional risks and enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts. Simple really.

Marriage is seldom for ever isn't it.

Edited September 14, 2007 by OlRedEyes

[teacup]

Lawyers 99% snakes in the grass ! Beautifull 20 something Thai girl who finds older man 99% snakes in the grass ! Made for one another......... enjoy whislt you can ! And I mean that in the nicest possible sense

Aren't they called “the ambulance chaser” in ama-ri-ka? Hmm...may be the two have something in common afterall!

[wolfmanjack]

If you think about it Maigo is right. What is worth having is worth paying for. Even in our home countries when we were chasing beaver we had to pay for dinner and drinks for a few nights or more before you found out if you would get "lucky" or not. If the girl was too easy (cheap) then you would not see her again because she was a sl**. If she was too hard to get then you would label her as a tease.

There are good girls here and my advice is if you want her to stay that way then keep her away from most of the other girls married to falangs here in thailand. You also have to be prepared for the jealousy.

I will leave it at that except to point out one obvious point. How many of you have been ripped off by someone you did not trust? If you did not trust them in the beginning then you did not let them get close enough to you to be able to rip you off. You kept your guard up. The best con men gain your trust first. Then they strike.

As far as wives are concerned things may be great now but who knows what will happen in the future. Sometimes people change.

Couple of good points there, we went back to england for almost 3 years, we met other thais ,i will say most were ex bgs, .my wife isnt, i asked her one day why dont you mix more with other thai women, her relpy was ,all they want to do is compare what they have and brag about it,.this and jealousy does seem to come from the ex bgs,. ill probably get some stick for this but the friends i have with non bar related partners do not have this jealousy thing, it seems to stem from a lack of trust brought about by what they have seen of western men in their former employment,.

My observations differed from your in a group of them I knew in Edinburgh

I would have said 50-50 BG's and not. About the same proportion still with their partner - some messing about and some well into the jealousy and gossip thing

Each sample ie ex-bg's and not fell into the camps of not being good girls and those that were pretty much equally.

I used to label it the "Crabs in a bucket syndrome" - some of them hated others getting on and pulled them back in like crabs do to an escaping crab from the bucket -

I do not reckon its the ex-employment alone that would cause lack of trust or insecurity. Of course it will have n affect but so will a unfaithful partnet in the past, a father who mistreat their mother or brothers with their family - poverty will also come into play - mono-causal factors are pretty rare in the human psyche

I have to agree with you on this. Things went pretty good with my wife and I until we moved into a moo ban with a bunch of other falangs with thai wives. They filled her head full of so much dung it isn't even funny. Comments like "why would you marry a poor falang when you could marry a poor thai just as well." Also the screwing around these guys did was unbelievable but the wives acted like they didn't care because their pocket book was continuously refilled whenever they asked. When my wife came to me and told me about so and so getting so much money every month from her husband i just let her know that so and so is down at the whorehouse 3 or 4 times a week and if that is what she wants then go for it. That usually shut her up about the money thing.

I do agree with your assessment about the father having a lot to do with their attitude towards trust and jealousy. My wife's father had several mia nois until he died and then her stepfather moved his mia noi in the same house as the rest of the family. Not very good for engendering trust in the male gender.

[Prakanong]

If you think about it Maigo is right. What is worth having is worth paying for. Even in our home countries when we were chasing beaver we had to pay for dinner and drinks for a few nights or more before you found out if you would get "lucky" or not. If the girl was too easy (cheap) then you would not see her again because she was a sl**. If she was too hard to get then you would label her as a tease.

There are good girls here and my advice is if you want her to stay that way then keep her away from most of the other girls married to falangs here in thailand. You also have to be prepared for the jealousy.

I will leave it at that except to point out one obvious point. How many of you have been ripped off by someone you did not trust? If you did not trust them in the beginning then you did not let them get close enough to you to be able to rip you off. You kept your guard up. The best con men gain your trust first. Then they strike.

As far as wives are concerned things may be great now but who knows what will happen in the future. Sometimes people change.

Couple of good points there, we went back to england for almost 3 years, we met other thais ,i will say most were ex bgs, .my wife isnt, i asked her one day why dont you mix more with other thai women, her relpy was ,all they want to do is compare what they have and brag about it,.this and jealousy does seem to come from the ex bgs,. ill probably get some stick for this but the friends i have with non bar related partners do not have this jealousy thing, it seems to stem from a lack of trust brought about by what they have seen of western men in their former employment,.

My observations differed from your in a group of them I knew in Edinburgh

I would have said 50-50 BG's and not. About the same proportion still with their partner - some messing about and some well into the jealousy and gossip thing

Each sample ie ex-bg's and not fell into the camps of not being good girls and those that were pretty much equally.

I used to label it the "Crabs in a bucket syndrome" - some of them hated others getting on and pulled them back in like crabs do to an escaping crab from the bucket -

I do not reckon its the ex-employment alone that would cause lack of trust or insecurity. Of course it will have n affect but so will a unfaithful partnet in the past, a father who mistreat their mother or brothers with their family - poverty will also come into play - mono-causal factors are pretty rare in the human psyche

I have to agree with you on this. Things went pretty good with my wife and I until we moved into a moo ban with a bunch of other falangs with thai wives. They filled her head full of so much dung it isn't even funny. Comments like "why would you marry a poor falang when you could marry a poor thai just as well." Also the screwing around these guys did was unbelievable but the wives acted like they didn't care because their pocket book was continuously refilled whenever they asked. When my wife came to me and told me about so and so getting so much money every month from her husband i just let her know that so and so is down at the whorehouse 3 or 4 times a week and if that is what she wants then go for it. That usually shut her up about the money thing.

I do agree with your assessment about the father having a lot to do with their attitude towards trust and jealousy. My wife's father had several mia nois until he died and then her stepfather moved his mia noi in the same house as the rest of the family. Not very good for engendering trust in the male gender.

I knew one guy who used to complain about his own wife bragging along with the others - one day he was out with another guy from the estate and the guy asked him about his houses in Spain and the USA.

Apparently his wife was not happy about telling the guy about their UK house which was rented out and they obviously had the house in Thailand as this guy was a neighbour but the wife added on two others.

[esbobes]

Lawyers 99% snakes in the grass ! Beautifull 20 something Thai girl who finds older man 99% snakes in the grass ! Made for one another......... enjoy whislt you can ! And I mean that in the nicest possible sense

Aren't they called "the ambulance chaser" in ama-ri-ka? Hmm...may be the two have something in common afterall!

A Ambulance Chaser and Bar Girl who is getting the worst of the deal. This is a great couple I would not to see their children

[Prakanong]

Lawyers 99% snakes in the grass ! Beautifull 20 something Thai girl who finds older man 99% snakes in the grass ! Made for one another......... enjoy whislt you can ! And I mean that in the nicest possible sense

Aren't they called "the ambulance chaser" in ama-ri-ka? Hmm...may be the two have something in common afterall!

A Ambulance Chaser and Bar Girl who is getting the worst of the deal. This is a great couple I would not to see their children

If your english was better I would say you were Thaigoon!

The chip on your shoulder is big enough and your abusive tone similar!

[GuestHouse]

Same old boring myths trotted out here as they are every time a similar subject is discussed.

e.g. You have to pay (or should be paying) for beautiful women in one way or another. The most beautiful women I have dated were only interested in personality, sex and having a good time. Not money. I pity you guys who think having money is prerequisite to having a beautiful woman! Even making comparisons with flying Business and Economy class.

I agree entirely.

And someone here was complaing about people commenting on the OPs relationship.

Please go read the Opening Post again - He is asking for opinions and particularly asking if anyone can 'talk him down'.

My view, he's started a relationship on monetary terms - That in itself lays the foundations for ruin - financial or emotional.

[Maigo6]

And guess what, I have absolutely no problems pulling stunning women in places where money isn't number one (unlike Thailand).

To boast of how attractive you are to the opposite sex, when you spend your leisure time on a PC...............

Kinda strange.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Maigo6

[realmadrid25]

Same old boring myths trotted out here as they are every time a similar subject is discussed.

e.g. You have to pay (or should be paying) for beautiful women in one way or another. The most beautiful women I have dated were only interested in personality, sex and having a good time. Not money. I pity you guys who think having money is prerequisite to having a beautiful woman! Even making comparisons with flying Business and Economy class. Sad. But if anything it is a reflection on Thai women, and why I don't find them all too exciting outside the bedroom.

If you have to throw money around to get women above your level it should tell you something!

Personally I would never date a woman that was in the slightest bit interested in my money.

And guess what, I have absolutely no problems pulling stunning women in places where money isn't number one (unlike Thailand).

I hate opening these threads because the boring fact is that 99% of the people posting sound like complete idiots. Both sides are correct about the other side being wrong. As in most arguments, there is always a middle ground.

In a partner, women seek the following attributes: wealth, social status, looks, personality, commitment. It is clear that a rich old man scores highly in some of these, and lower in others. The statement that you dont need money to get women is not incorrect: by having good looks, a good personality, being famous/popular, you can attract women. The statement that all women care about money, is also not incorrect. Since the beginning of time, women have seeked men with wealth who could provide them with the most fish. Women are naturally programmed to seek men with money, no matter how much this bothers some people.

In the west, you don't see many women with older men unless they are famous or very rich. The reason why this takes place more in Thailand is economics. There are more young women below the poverty line, so the requirements of "very rich" have been lowered, much to the esteem of farang in Thailand who are now to be treated with dignity and respect where as back home they were just another balding chubby middle aged man. (I know, not you. You are a total casanova and multi-millionaire who is incredible in bed).

When a man makes the statement "I would never date a women who was the slightest bit interested in my money", I have to laugh. The equivilant would be if a women said "I would never date a man, who was in the slightest big interested in my body". Tud, you might do well to read a book on evolution, pyschology, or human nature.

In my honest opinion, two people will only be happy long term in a relationship if they both truely love and care about the other person. However, of course sex and money matter. Sex and money is what relationships built upon. You can call it nature vs nuture. Nuture is love, Nature is sex/money.

If there is not love, wont the man just seek a younger women in five years, and wont the women just seek a richer man as soon as he comes along? Wont she seek as many rich men at once as she can get?

[realmadrid25]

Same old boring myths trotted out here as they are every time a similar subject is discussed.

e.g. You have to pay (or should be paying) for beautiful women in one way or another. The most beautiful women I have dated were only interested in personality, sex and having a good time. Not money. I pity you guys who think having money is prerequisite to having a beautiful woman! Even making comparisons with flying Business and Economy class.

I agree entirely.

And someone here was complaing about people commenting on the OPs relationship.

Please go read the Opening Post again - He is asking for opinions and particularly asking if anyone can 'talk him down'.

My view, he's started a relationship on monetary terms - That in itself lays the foundations for ruin - financial or emotional.

I agree. If you are insecure enough to seek advice on an internet message board about the likelyhood that your gf loves you, it doesnt bode well for your relationship.

[Maigo6]

Yeah, for doing nothing, they have a tough life eh.

So, as I suspected, it's all about you.

YOU are envious of this Thai Girls worth.

Would you refuse monthly payments from someone who thought you were worth paying? Of course not!

It's just that out of a world population of 6 Billion +, nobody deems you worthy of payment.

I know this may be hard to accept, but eventually, you have to realize your own worth.

If people are willing to pay, it means you are worth something, if like so many Farangs in Thailnd, nobody gives a fart, you're worth nothing at all.

That is why when your money runs out....you're screwed.

[realmadrid25]

I absolutely agree with the objection to people extrapolating their experience in a bar onto the rest of Thai society - Too much of tht does go on.

So let's start by asking who here has studdied at or worked at a Thai University? - Count me in.

The reason I ask is because the OPs sittuation (funding a female student young enough to be his daughter - but not his daughter) is more common that I immagined before attending a Thai university.

The university, and indeed the course, I studdied at had a number of such female students - More cash than the average student, better accommodation and often a car - all provided by their 'sponsor'.

A foreigner sending a few thousand Baht a month is the bottom end of the market - I personally knew one young lady who had a penthouse appartment in a very nice condo in Bangkok.

But let's not extrapolate this to the presumption that all Thai female University stundents are 'out for hire', they are not, and the students who have these 'sponsors' are regarded by the mainstream as .. Let us say 'In an unfavourable light'. (Envy over their good fortune or disdain over their behavior? I'll let you decide according to which side of the argument you want to be on).

But do not make the mistake of believing there is no moral judgment on such behavior in Thai society.

However, the opinion of the students might also be seen to be split - Like universities the world over there are a lot of young guys who are out for a good time. And what better ingredient for a good time than 'Party Girls'.

It was my personal observation that the girls being 'sponsored' by older wealthy guys where by and large 'the party girls'. They had more money, better accommodation, often had a car, and because life was coming easy so soon, less commitment to their studies.

"Millionaires" - I do not know many 49 year old professionals who are not Millionaires - certainly if we are talking US$ then I think finding a 49 year old professional who is not a millionaire might be more difficult than finding one who is. (Assuming wealth has not been lost on divorce or some other such financial disaster).

But when discussing Thai universities (actually any university) it is not just rich old guys we need to consider, there are an awful lot of rich young people in Thai universities - and I mean seriously wealthy.

And when they want to play they play big time - and whom do they play with? - The party girls.

They fool around with the party girls, and when mamma and pappa give the order they marry nice rich girl.

The delineation in Thai universities is striking. Rich kids in one group, Academic kids in another, the mass struggling on in a third and the Party girls hovering on the side almost always using their easy cash in pretence of being the rich kid.

Like the old guy who likes to get good use out of his money, these 'sponsored' students like to get the best out of theirs.

Thai universities are full of good looking, interesting, motivated students - They, like students the world over, they find each other very good company. Student life, fun and romance is all in the body of students - That is where its 'at'.

Young female students seeking the attentions and sponsorship of older guys. I would say they are already of questionable personality and morality - I'm absolutely sure that the majority of their fellow students would agree. "

" Sponsored by a old foreign guys'. Let me put it this way – We've had many a post on TV regarding the negative views (even racism) of middle class Thais towards foreigners – Believe me the parallel will almost certainly be drawn between a Thai female student sponsored by a rich older foreigner and … subjects banned under TV rules.

A counter opinion from someone who has studied at or worked in a Thai university would be interesting to hear.

this is one of the few posts that is not stupid. it seems like the best scenario for an old man to would be to find one of the serious students to sponser, not a party girl. Of course, the majority of girls sponsered will be a party girl. And I am sure that very few of them have only one sponser: why would she?

[realmadrid25]

Yeah, for doing nothing, they have a tough life eh.

So, as I suspected, it's all about you.

YOU are envious of this Thai Girls worth.

Would you refuse monthly payments from someone who thought you were worth paying? Of course not!

It's just that out of a world population of 6 Billion +, nobody deems you worthy of payment.

I know this may be hard to accept, but eventually, you have to realize your own worth.

If people are willing to pay, it means you are worth something, if like so many Farangs in Thailnd, nobody gives a fart, you're worth nothing at all.

That is why when your money runs out....you're screwed.

looking the mirror and be honest about yourself is one of the hardest things a person can do. very very few are willing to do such a thing. their egos are too big.

[TheDon]

I know a few Thai girls who get sponsored by foreign females, not farang either.

I dont know any girl who is sponsored by a farang guy, but I know there is many around.

[Maigo6]

looking the mirror and be honest about yourself is one of the hardest things a person can do. very very few are willing to do such a thing. their egos are too big.

Yes Real Madrid, many Farang come to this Forum with only negative vibes about Thailand and Thai people.

They tend to assume they are worth more!

When a Farang sends money to a Thai woman, these very same people who consider they have worth, complain and whine and bitch and moan because a Farang has considered a Thai person worthy of a monthly payment.

Yet nobody considers them worthy of a monthly payment.

Do these people really begrudge a Thai Girl getting money from a Farang?

I doubt it..............

It's just that they don't have anybody sending them money, that's what really pizzes them off !!!

Good luck to the girl, get what you can out of a Farang is my advice!

[Dupont]

Same old boring myths trotted out here as they are every time a similar subject is discussed.

e.g. You have to pay (or should be paying) for beautiful women in one way or another. The most beautiful women I have dated were only interested in personality, sex and having a good time. Not money. I pity you guys who think having money is prerequisite to having a beautiful woman! Even making comparisons with flying Business and Economy class.

I agree entirely.

And someone here was complaing about people commenting on the OPs relationship.

Please go read the Opening Post again - He is asking for opinions and particularly asking if anyone can 'talk him down'.

My view, he's started a relationship on monetary terms - That in itself lays the foundations for ruin - financial or emotional.

I agree. If you are insecure enough to seek advice on an internet message board about the likelyhood that your gf loves you, it doesnt bode well for your relationship.

Almost as insecure as people who latch themselves onto big football clubs in a bid to boost their pathetic lot!!! There is is a direct corelation between willy size and distance lived from football team who'se shirts you wear. How many other geeks must these big team supporters (with the shirt, the encyclopeadic knowledge) from Bristol, Kent, Hull or wherever see to realise that they are just as sad and geeky looking and refrain from wearing them. Its even worse as well if you suppport them just because Beckham was there!!

To the OP, chill out and enjoy the relationship unless or untill you have concerns about it. Keep a decent stash of money out of Thailand though!

Truth is, you will never know until you find out for yourself. You're a big boy now so behave like one and the best of luck to you, but find a direction and go with it 100%.

TV is great for learning stuff, but posts of this type are polarised from the start. When big issues pop up like Visa rule changes, FBA etc, it's very enlightening on here, enformative and supportive. However, as its late low season, we seem to prefer a good old dust up to while away the day. I'm surprised at a lot of the pettiness that has crept into my posts this past few months, returning to posts to respond to jibes etc. Bit like this one really

[realmadrid25]

"Almost as insecure as people who latch themselves onto big football clubs in a bid to boost their pathetic lot!!! There is is a direct corelation between willy size and distance lived from football team who'se shirts you wear. How many other geeks must these big team supporters (with the shirt, the encyclopeadic knowledge) from Bristol, Kent, Hull or wherever see to realise that they are just as sad and geeky looking and refrain from wearing them. Its even worse as well if you suppport them just because Beckham was there!!"

are you drunk?

[Maigo6]

Don't waste your time trying to fathom out other peoples lives, just gauge your own life, is it all you expected it to be ?

One of your aims was to be doing what you are doing at this very moment ?

Life has many strange turning points, it's all interconnected, we do what we do at the time we do it....that's all.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Maigo6

[Choscura]

I can sum up the possibility of a healthy, long term relationship- from what the OP has described- in 4 words.

no way in hel_l.

it will turn bad, and you won't know about if, if she's a good girl. if she's not, you'll wind up on the street while she and her long-term boyfriend party hearty with your hard earned cash.

look, for all the idiots I meet here who have wives and girlfriends half your age, it doesn't work for too many reasons to count. you've got the language barrier- women *need* to communicate the same way you need sex- you've got the cultural barrier which you are REINFORCING by giving them and their families so much money (I'm not saying be sticky, but please, don't seperate yourself from them by making it unavoidably clear that if their daughter wasn't hot theres no way you'd ever meet), and any number of other reasons.

why would a thai girl do this? well hel_l, all she has to do is bend over and shut up and she's quadrupling her income every month and helping her family. is it any wonder that so many of them do this? and this isn't just bar girls. and not all bar girls do this, either. but....

I can't go on. stupid people like this make me depressed.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Choscura

[blizzard]

who wants to sponsor a serious uni girl.

isnt the sponsered supposed to be fun!

it would be good if we could identify this lawyere and then warn his client about him. who wants a lawyer who makes bad judgements in his personal life. maybe thats why he is on course to retire with ONLY one million usa dollars. not much considering he is a usa lawyer.

someone should define wot sponship means. my understanding is it is like having a hooker on retainer.

Edited September 14, 2007 by blizzard

[Maigo6]

who wants a lawyer who makes bad judgements in his personal life. maybe thats why he is on course to retire with ONLY one million usa dollars. not much considering he is a usa lawyer.

I would hazard a guess that's 1 Million Dollars more than you have........................

[Maigo6]

I can't go on. stupid people like this make me depressed.

Choscuras Girlfriend celebrated her 57th birthday last week.

[blizzard]

as usual you are way off. whats all this i rag on thais all the time. seems to me i rag on silly farangs more.

[blizzard]

in vietnam if you want a gurl you better have a moto scooter...lol.

ps mr magio you seem to be very bitter towards me. lighten up. be happy, try being positive for a change. you sound like an old farng coot.

Edited September 14, 2007 by blizzard

[cobra]

Yoda signed up for Thaivisa has he?

Know best Yoda is. Only this one green not and comes with furrrrr and claws.

you guys are killing me, killing me you are,

[Maigo6]

in vietnam if you want a gurl you better have a moto scooter...lol.

That's me out of luck, I only have a Toyota Fortuner.

Edited September 14, 2007 by Maigo6