Interesting Particle

[NaiGreg]

อยู่ดีมีสุขเน่อ

My wife's cousin wrote this to us recently in an email message.

The main sentence (yu-dee-mee-suk) is pretty easy, but the particle (ner) stumped me. (I'm stumped all the time, anyway )

(Wife's explanation to follow ...)

[username2004]

The particle "เน่อ" or "เน้อ" is used in the northeast, I guess. But I, a Bangkokian, often use it with my friends in informal e-mail messages.

MORE: The particle "เด้อ" is used in the northeast; "เจ้า" in the north. And all of the particles mean "ครับ" "ค่ะ" "นะ."

[NaiGreg]

Thanks for the nice explanation! Both my wife and her cousin are from Chiangmai.

What about the whole phrase,อยู่ดีมีสุข, is it common among friends? It seems a little bit formal, but quaint.

[snowleopard]

The particle "เน่อ" or "เน้อ" is used in the northeast, I guess. But I, a Bangkokian, often use it with my friends in informal e-mail messages.

MORE: The particle "เด้อ" is used in the northeast; "เจ้า" in the north. And all of the particles mean "ครับ" "ค่ะ" "นะ."

อยู่ดีมีสุขเน่อ

My wife's cousin wrote this to us recently in an email message.

The main sentence (yu-dee-mee-suk) is pretty easy, but the particle (ner) stumped me. (I'm stumped all the time, anyway  )

(Wife's explanation to follow ...)

Hi Username 2004 and Nai Greg!

I suspect that "เน่อ" is incorrectly spelt and it should actually be "เน้อ" which is written with "mai toh"!

I think เน้อ and นะ are very similar.

How about หนอ?

1.หนอ used for interjections.

Example:เรื่องนี้แปลกจริงๆ หนอ "reu-ang nee plaek jing jing noh"=This is really a strange story hey!

2.หนอ used in a question.

Example:ทำไมหนอ "tam-mai noh"=Why?

Could it somehow be หนอ that was incorrectly spelt in the message?

What's your take on that Username 2004?

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[username2004]

Hi all : ) How are you?

What about the whole phrase,อยู่ดีมีสุข, is it common among friends? It seems a little bit formal, but quaint.

NaiGreg, Yes and no.

Yes, the phrase "อยู่ดีมีสุข" is quite formal, used in special occasions such as a New Year celebration. We hardly hear it these days, I guess.

And, no, it's hardly used among friends. Elder people tend to the phrase to the younger ones in special occasions.

I suspect that "เน่อ" is incorrectly spelt and it should actually be "เน้อ" which is written with "mai toh"! 

I think เน้อ and นะ are very similar.

snowleopard, I agree that it should spell "เน้อ," so I wrote in the first message: "The particle 'เน่อ' or 'เน้อ.'" And yes, "เน้อ" and "นะ" carry the same meaning, used in two different parts of the country: the north(east) and the central respectively.

How about หนอ?

1.หนอ used for interjections.

Example:เรื่องนี้แปลกจริงๆ หนอ "reu-ang nee plaek jing jing noh"=This is really a strange story hey!

2.หนอ used in a question.

Example:ทำไมหนอ "tam-mai noh"=Why?

Could it somehow be หนอ that was incorrectly spelt in the message?

Nice explanation on "หนอ"! But the particle is somewhat dated, usually seen in a poem (to create a rhyme) or a song. For instance, as the song "ใครหนอ" goes, "ใครหนอ รักเราเท่าชีวัน คุณพ่อ คุณแม่" (krai nhor ruk roa toa chee one / khun-por khun mae = Who loves us as much as they love their own lives? Our dad and our mom.)

P.S. ชีวัน (chee-one) = ชีวิต (chee-wit) = Life

Hope this helps.

[Johpa]

"เน่อ"....

Nice explanation on "หนอ"! But the particle is somewhat dated,

I hear it all the time when living amongst the Khon Muang up north. It seems to always indicate a relationship of friendship and informality. The most common usage might be in the phrase, and I apologize for the lack of Thai fonts, "phop kan mai neu!" which gives the flavour of: "See you again, for sure."

[username2004]

Thank you Johpa for adding an interesting perspective! I agree with you that the particle is still used in the north, though my last visit to เชียงใหม่ was ten years ago.

"phop kan mai neu!" = พบกันใหม่เน้อ = See you laterrrrrrr.

However, please notice that the word spelled "เน้อ," not "หนอ."

[meadish_sweetball]

Hello everyone,

I am sorry, but I actually disagree with Snowleopard and Username2004 about the correct tone marker for this particle. I suspect you are unfamiliar with Northern Thai.

When a Chiang Mai person says "noe" it definitely has a falling tone, and thus should have a mai eek in this case.

It may well be that this particle takes a high tone in the Northeast or in the Central Plains, I do not know. But up here in the North, it is clearly falling...

เน่อ คับ...

[NaiGreg]

Many thanks to all who participate in and lead this forum. It is a great place to fill in the gaps and to get a hold of the nuances and subtleties that the books and tapes cannot provide.

My wife and I are beginning to have no-English days around the house to help me improve my limited speaking skills. (I can read/write Thai in a painfully slow way.) It is ironic that her excellent English skills hold me back a little bit!

[Richard W]

I am sorry, but I actually disagree with Snowleopard and Username2004 about the correct tone marker for this particle. I suspect you are unfamiliar with Northern Thai.

When a Chiang Mai person says "noe" it definitely has a falling tone, and thus should have a mai eek in this case.

It may well be that this particle takes a high tone in the Northeast or in the Central Plains, I do not know. But up here in the North, it is clearly falling...

By Sabaijai's account of 11 July, that etymologically makes it mai tho. This raises the question of how to write Northern Thai in the Thai alphabet:

1) Using the old conventions as though transliterating from the Lanna script to the Thai script; or

2) Trying to use Siamese rules, which:

(a) clearly can't cope (5 tones in live syllables, not 6)

( will probably result in far more different spellings between Siamese and Northern Thai than option (1)

© results in unnecessarily different spellings between Chiangmai and Chiangrai.

(Fixed list letters about 9 hours after posting.)

Just as a thought experiment, think how ridiculous it would be to write Lao, taking the 5-tone Vientiane pronunciation as standard (see Vientiane tones) using Siamese spelling rules!

[meadish_sweetball]

Hi Richard,

Point taken, definitely. And I agree that is a problem.

Only it bothers me to think that when a non-Northern Thai person, or anyone else who can read Thai, sees the particle written like that, they will pronounce it with the high tone unless they have heard it spoken... some may even come to the misconclusion that it is Lanna people that 'pronounce it wrong'...

But you are probably right. Maybe it should be explained in a footnote how the tone is actually realized.