Oppostion From Thai Teachers ?

[PeaceBlondie]

Canada, your 27 hours of contact per week were way too many. 33 is beyond ridiculous. It's good you left. No, you did not resign, but you can't prove you were fired, so I'd thank my lucky stars that I'm free at last, and go find a decent employer. Somtam vendors don't always work 33 hours per week.

[Scott]

Wow, Canada, really sorry to hear about your experience. It sounds like someone was setting you up to fail. Please accept my sympathies and it's good to hear that she seem to have survived what would be an ordeal for anyone with such strength.

In my years here, I've seen the entire spectrum of problems between Thai and Foreign teachers. I would guess that about 10% of our Foreign teachers over the years have ended up married to one of the Thai teachers at the school. Thus far, successfully married, I might add.

That have been a few who threatened to get the police/a lawyer because of something that someone had said, as well. Most fall in the middle.

We have a few Thai Teachers who seem to have no feelings one way or the other towards foreigners (this is almost always seen as being anti-foreign). They are not particularly friendly, but you can squeak a good morning out of them. If you need to deal with them, they are helpful, polite but very businesslike.

We have a few Thai teachers who like some foreign teachers and dislike others. We have some who are shy and afraid to talk.

In my experience, time seems to heal a lot of the rifts or imaginary rifts. Very few Thais like the uncomfortableness of actively disliking people and so they will change their behavior/attitude.

Foreign Teachers seem to run about the same.

The one place that pretty much is guaranteed to cause problems is if you get yourself involved in the politics at the school or in a cultural conflict--on that one you will generally come out the loser.

[Canada]

The rest of the english teaching staff is actively trying to persuade me to reconsider my position. There are more problems than this one at this particular school. Some of them solvable and some of not. I am going to be staying in this village for at least another 6 months. I hate being bored. Since Friday, I have made the Thai english staff aware of my particular problems with the school and their process with me. This would be the third time I have done this. They have swore up and down that they will do what they originally promised that they would do, that my differences with this one teacher are surmountable, and everything can be smooth sailing in the new term. I am unsure of what to do. If they do what they say...it is a bearable situation.

Any words of wisdom? ( I can hear them already) Thanks for your input.

Extra info....I am illegal here. They hire me as a private contractor. How big of a target am I? Will the school suffer as a result of someone "blowing the whistle"on me. If so, would that be enough of a deterent to stop someone from doing so? The teacher that I am in conflict with was the one that actively persuaded me to come here, promised the world, and has information about me such as a copy of my passport, and signed documents regarding my employment with them. I feel vulnerable, have so from the start, but more so now than before. Probably because I am...Right?

[Scott]

Canada: You are caught in the seedier side of the patronage system. The teacher you have a conflict with probably--and please remember, I am only speculating--thinks that you owe her/him because they circumverted the rules to get you the job. In her mind, instead of being dutiful and subservient, you are being aggressive and disrespectful.

This is a cultural difference I've run into before and they don't get that sometimes we are about doing the job and we don't get that for them it's to whom we owe loyalty.

Since you are illegal, I would take a very close look at your situation. In a lot of instances, the Thai staff don't exactly understand the ins and outs of visas and work permits. This is especially true in rural areas. Only you know how well they understand your situation and implications. Is there any way you can get yourself legal?

Two options: 1. Decide that you are going to put your problems with the other teacher aside and follow the cultural norms--which sometimes isn't that hard to do, because usually it just requires being polite and saying yes, even though you don't do it the way they want.

2. Leave your position and the school. You might want to look for another place, maybe a nearby village or something not too far away but part time. Or you might want to leave the area, depending on your circumstances.

The upshot of the situation is it's hard for Thai's to have this kind of on-going conflict. The common ground in their social structure is harmony. It's best that you do something to promote that harmony otherwise your life gets difficult. Make sure you don't cause anyone to lose face.

Best of luck to you.

[Canada]

Scott, thanks for the objective view and constructive suggestions. And thank you to this forum. I read it every day. Being out in the rice fields, I often feel out of touch. This is one of my tools for staying sane.

[Ijustwannateach]

Regarding severance, you could still sue for it, but in this case you'd also be shopping yourself as illegal- lose, lose. I feel for you, Canada.

[Rhys]

As a Native Speaker (American) of Asian Decent and English teacher, I just nod my head and go on my way.. One post head the nail on head... Acknowledge, thank, then continue..as before.. Adios

[southerndog]

One piece of advice I'd give to anyone teaching in Thailand is this: Treat this job the same way that you would if you were dating a beautiful american girl.... You have to make her believe that you aren't that interested, and that you have many other options available.

In my experience, teaching here is just some big power game. You have to be ready to bluff, or else you'll get run over the whole time.

For example. I told my boss I wanted to quit, that I didn't need the job, and things have been better ever since.. LOL.

[pauleddy]

Yes, you have to bluff. The best one is to say that you are comfortable and don't need to work, but it's a hobby etc. As such, you are not beholden. In my own case this is true, due to successful investment planning in the past, sheer luck, and some family legacies....but I realise now that I would still claim to be rich/even if I were poor. They seem to impose on you less.

DO NOT get sucked in to editing some Thai teacher's brother's thesis or an important business letter for a Thai's business partnert. You will get seen as a soft touch. ALSO...it will never be just an edit. About 70% of the time you will rewrite it. Luckily, I know someone who does editing as a business. I always refer anybody who sniffs around me (for "help") to that person, who charges around 1000b for each full page edit.

DO make sure that you check student marks up to and beyond the marking/grading board stage. Some Thai course heads will change your 52% to 72% to 'smooth' the grades. This is after you have really struggled with a difficult, stupid class full of hi-so brats for 14 weeks (with a few seldom coming to class). When I studied (years ago), 60% was great, and 65% was an A. Now, these brats complain about any mark under 75%. The whole thing is a complete joke, because all the kids expect to get either 80% and above. So, 90 plus is an A, 85 is a Bplus, 80 is a B....nobody ever gets a D, so the whole curve is skewed to the high end. I get accused of being 'hard', but, of course, giving a dumb kid 90% is wasting his time, the parents' time, MY time....and ultimately doing no favours to the country, because everything gets devalued (incl. the value of a Thai degree). Yes, I know that it's all devalued now (any fool can do an MBA, and a BSc is just like an A-level) but here in LOS it gets ridiculous. AND yes, I know I am fighting a losing battle (already lost), but I dream on...............................

PEd

[southerndog]

Yes, you have to bluff. The best one is to say that you are comfortable and don't need to work, but it's a hobby etc. As such, you are not beholden. In my own case this is true, due to successful investment planning in the past, sheer luck, and some family legacies....but I realise now that I would still claim to be rich/even if I were poor. They seem to impose on you less.

DO NOT get sucked in to editing some Thai teacher's brother's thesis or an important business letter for a Thai's business partnert. You will get seen as a soft touch. ALSO...it will never be just an edit. About 70% of the time you will rewrite it. Luckily, I know someone who does editing as a business. I always refer anybody who sniffs around me (for "help") to that person, who charges around 1000b for each full page edit.

Agree wholeheartedly with both paragraphs. I pretty much did the same thing as far as letting my employers know that I was teaching because I really like teaching, and need something to keep busy. But I have a healthy bank account to fall back on if I need it.

My wife gets people asking her to proof english papers all of the time, of which I end up doing.. (My wife works in academics as well, but not with me. I don't mind helping out, but some of the stuff I've just handed back to her and said "they're gonna have to do better.

DO make sure that you check student marks up to and beyond the marking/grading board stage. Some Thai course heads will change your 52% to 72% to 'smooth' the grades. This is after you have really struggled with a difficult, stupid class full of hi-so brats for 14 weeks (with a few seldom coming to class). When I studied (years ago), 60% was great, and 65% was an A. Now, these brats complain about any mark under 75%. The whole thing is a complete joke, because all the kids expect to get either 80% and above. So, 90 plus is an A, 85 is a Bplus, 80 is a B....nobody ever gets a D, so the whole curve is skewed to the high end. I get accused of being 'hard', but, of course, giving a dumb kid 90% is wasting his time, the parents' time, MY time....and ultimately doing no favours to the country, because everything gets devalued (incl. the value of a Thai degree). Yes, I know that it's all devalued now (any fool can do an MBA, and a BSc is just like an A-level) but here in LOS it gets ridiculous. AND yes, I know I am fighting a losing battle (already lost), but I dream on...............................

PEd

This stuff I don't care so much about.. If they want to have a shitty system, I'm not gonna try and fix it and cause myself more headaches. I'd rather just sit back and watch them have a crummy system that will never help them compete in a global market.

[spectrum]

I agree that there can be unpleasant undercurrents in workplaces where native and non-native English-speaking teachers teach together in the NNES culture. While this is certainly not unique to Thailand, these unpleasantries can be unsettling.

As others have pointed out, the causes are various. Pay can be one. However, in at least some, supposedly higher status Universities, the Thai and foreign part-time teachers receive identical pay per hour (and everyone's total pay can be viewed when signing for the cheque each month).

Is it a divide and conquer tactic -- having newly graduated native speakers with not even a 6-week TEFL certificate to their name and not necessarily with language-related majors (on "gap-year programs"*) receive the same pay as experienced, far more highly qualified Thai teachers ? Does that not rather suggest "Beware your dispensability" to the Thai teachers ?

Or are these institutions simply being cheap ?

*Are these programs not rather arrogant? "Princeton in Asia", for instance, seem to crop up around every corner.

The kids usually seem decent and responsible; doubtless the opportunity is a great one for them, but it seems obvious that having totally inexperienced and untrained kids do the same job as local old hands for the same pay is going to create tensions.

Edited September 29, 2007 by spectrum

[paulfr]

Well I learned to appreciate my situation a bit more having read this thread.

At least my students come to class at rates above 90%.

I would be angry facing the prospect of passing a student who rarely showed up.

Now my students who sleep in class leave me in control; I can wake them up. 55555

The way I put these teaching frustrations in to perspective is to consider the nature of Thailand.

This is a land where [for 1000 years] no one can starve because mango and banana trees are everywhere.

And no one really needs a house south of Chiang Mai as it is so warm you can just sleep under a tree.

Is it any wonder why people are not motivated here ?

Necessity is the mother of both invention and diligence.

Remove the needs and you get happy, light hearted, unmotivated people.

Reminds me a bit of Mexico.

Edited September 30, 2007 by paulfr