jomtienbob: Dont be suprised if the banks are in on it. A friend of mine withdrew 1,000bht from ATM opposite the Nana, in soi4, sukumavit, only too appear on his bank statement as 2,000bht withdrawn!

Yep at the time it SURELY seemed like someone at that branch of the BKK Bank down near soi Marine in Pattaya was in on something. But I happen to personally know the Captain of police down here and he thinks probably not as there haven't been other reports of similar or same from that location.

He quietly suggested in private that the order probably came from above to cover up the issue and blame the Farang (me), as their HQ will almost surely have other incidences of this that they know of. This would explain why the manager did not attend any but the last meeting, and why they refused written police orders on 5! occasions. The fact that if people know that this can happen would cost them a bucket load in customer confidence and a PR nightmare if it got out. So you can see, they couldn't even pay me back/off, because the big issue still remains the same for them. How did they get through the pin no????

As they say, there is truth, justice and then there is the Thai way of doing things...

How to avoid the scamers!

Open 2 accounts with internet access. Get 1 account with a card and the other without. Keep ALL your money in account WITHOUT a card. When you want to take money out of the ATM go online and transfer the amount you wish to withdraw to account with the card. Go to ATM and withdraw it. If card is ever cloned you are not going to loose anything as you have nothing in account to remove. Simple but effective

Bloody fine Idea I say.

Possibly a bit inconvenient, but definitely puts another safety cog in the wheel

There are sub branches of banks now in all the big supermarkets, open and staffed to 8.30pm most days. Easy to visit and withdraw funds. Safe and convenient.

Although not as convenient as ATM and on line accounts, any problems with phantom withdrawals from ones account, the banks would put you through merry hel_l rather than admit that their security or systems are at fault.

For those applying for visas in Thailand, does anyone actually believe that Immigration would be sympathetic to those who claim that they can't access funds due to problems with the bank?

I personally would never hold an on line account or use visa and ATM cards in Thailand.

Those fool enough to thrust the system, do so at high risk of being financially wiped out.

I do not and never have used ATM facilities anywhere abroad due to fraud and security risks.

If you possibly can, make alternative arrangements to access your cash ( and there are plenty of options to do so ) and keep enough to get you over the weekend periods and holidays when the banks are closed.

Otherwise be prepared for possible breaching of your alleged security.

While many of us are aware of these repeated scams to relieve us of our money, others are not, so updates whenever published need to be posted.

Don,t be afraid to share any as they will assist those who are not party to older data, especially here in Thailand.

Let us at least try to stop the Thieving Backstuds emptying our accounts

marshbags

P.S.

H2oDunc has posted a sensible alternative for those that must use the ATM,s ( Post 20 )

Don,t share the details with anyone else, mind.

How to avoid the scamers!

Open 2 accounts with internet access. Get 1 account with a card and the other without. Keep ALL your money in account WITHOUT a card. When you want to take money out of the ATM go online and transfer the amount you wish to withdraw to account with the card. Go to ATM and withdraw it. If card is ever cloned you are not going to loose anything as you have nothing in account to remove. Simple but effective

Also set a daily ATM withdrawl limit. That way if they do get your pin you will only be out $500 instead of wiped out.

How to avoid the scamers!

Open 2 accounts with internet access. Get 1 account with a card and the other without. Keep ALL your money in account WITHOUT a card. When you want to take money out of the ATM go online and transfer the amount you wish to withdraw to account with the card. Go to ATM and withdraw it. If card is ever cloned you are not going to loose anything as you have nothing in account to remove. Simple but effective

Bloody fine Idea I say.

Possibly a bit inconvenient, but definitely puts another safety cog in the wheel

It's just what I do. I keep no more than I can afford to lose in my ATM accounts. I also try to use the ATMs inside the bank. But I don't use online banking, I just walk in and do it in the bank. Convenient for me in my circumstances, probably not for many.

Interesting news story today linked to this subject.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/24Sep2007_biz30.php

Interesting news story today linked to this subject.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/24Sep2007_biz30.php

BANKING / SECURITY & STRATEGY

Banks tighten screws on fraud

Landmark court ruling on ATM fraud could force changes at banks

DARANA CHUDASRI

Local bankers are reviewing their security procedures in light of a precedent-setting court ruling last week on ATM fraud.

The Sukhothai lower court last week ordered Siam City Bank to repay a 71-year-old customer 180,000 baht that had been withdrawn from an ATM in Songkhla.

The customer testified that he had not been in the southern province at the time of the withdrawals and that his ATM card remained in his possession. The court agreed that the theft was not the responsibility of the customer and directed the bank to repay the missing funds.

Members of the Thai Bankers' Association met last week to discuss the growing problem of electronic fraud and potential liability in light of the court ruling.

''The SCIB case is one that all banks are monitoring very closely. It's the first time that a bank has been ordered to repay a customer in this type of case,'' one banker said.

The customer acknowledged having shared his PIN code, the secret password used in electronic transactions, with his wife and children to allow access to ATM withdrawals from his account.

Bankers said that the fact that the customer revealed his PIN to a third party but was still found not liable for potential losses would have profound consequences for the industry.

''If revealing one's PIN to a third party is held to be acceptable, then many types of banking services, such as internet banking, could be affected,'' the banker said.

Pongsit Chaichutpornsuk, a senior vice-president and head of the fraud management division at Siam Commercial Bank (SCB), said he did not believe the case would necessarily create a new standard for the industry.

But financial institutions are undoubtedly faced with greater challenges related to electronic fraud.

Fraud can come in various forms, from computer hacking of internet accounts to credit card theft and ATM theft. One increasingly common method is for a thief to install a fake ''mask'' at an ATM to capture data from an ATM magnetic strip and record the PIN code. The thief can then fake the customer account data and use the captured PIN to withdraw funds.

Local banks have issued warnings to customers urging caution at ATMs to prevent eavesdropping and to ensure that a keypad or card reader is genuine. Most banks also impose restrictions on internet banking and phone banking accounts, with transfers permitted only to previously approved accounts verified in person at a branch.

''I think that the [sCIB] court decision will help push banks to work even harder to investigate unusual transactions and communicate with customers on safe use of ATMs,'' Mr Pongsit predicted.

He said that for SCB, losses incurred from ATM fraud were promptly repaid to the customer once an investigation is completed to ensure that the account holder had no complicity in the crime.

''Of course, there have been some cases where the bank has refused to refund the customer, as we found that the customer revealed a PIN to a close friend and that it was the friend who made the withdrawal,'' Mr Pongsit said.

In the SCIB case, the court noted that the customer promptly alerted the bank about his loss and co-operated fully in the bank's investigation, even to the point of revealing that he had shared his PIN code with his family members, even though this could have weakened his case for a refund.

The court said SCIB had failed to prove that the customer was culpable in the crime and thus ordered a full refund.

Soundman.

Which brings up the point that international events and information-sharing exists. Anyone working as head of security would try to stay up to date with the latest scams, no?

AS mentioned this is old stuff anywhere else but maybe banks could use some farangs experts!

All this doesnt bother me as normally my money sits in a bank without ATM card and if I want use other casch which comes in via ATM based accounts I get an SMS and get the money out asap....

Yes you are correct, technically speaking. Perhaps what I should have said if that no Chip and Pin terminals have been deployed in Thailand either in ATM's or POS. The Chip in Chip and Pin is the primary method of communicating the PIN to the host. The Chip contains a key (or algorithm) which allows the card AND the terminal device to be validated. But the fallback in the event the Chip is damaged is to revert to the magnetic stripe. In summary, Chip and PIN cards issued in Thailand will only provide the extra layer of protection when used in cross border transactions where Chip and PIN terminals are deployed.

Essentially most ATM machines donot have cameras unless placed in the bank. Also more difficult to cheat those as afterall all thats needed is the securityguards now and then looking at the machines.

I suppose they couldnt find out how data got transfered??

Until the banking system here is open truly to competition, the public and consumers can continue to receive inadequate service and lack of accountabilty from the banks

There are thousands of "Mobile ATMs" in Thailand that get ripped off everyday/nite.

Bar girls the main culprits.

Thai banking security is woeful..

It took me about 10 mins of thinking to find a way to empty my ex's private bank account after her demise (no will etc) and that would work on anyones account.

It's amazing what personal information people are willing to offer.

This is a pretty serious crime.