Location, Location, Location,...

[Rossi]

Dear Community,

I am living in Thailand for about 4 years now and recently married my (thai) wife. As we are planning to stay in Thailand for some more years, I am currently considering to buy property here. Our business gives us a certain flexibility regarding the location of this property. There are basically 2 main locations that we are thinking of: Bangkok and Pattaya.

As buying property should of course also always be seen from an investors point of view, I would like to ask about your opinions regarding these locations. Most people expect the property prices to rise in the future. Is this only restricted to Bangkok or do you think the development will be similar in Pattaya? What are the most interesting locations from your point of view? I was searching the internet for a few days and it seems that the property prices in Pattaya are significantly lower than in Bangkok. Can you agree?

I'm a little bit scared to buy one of those new 1st class condos in Bangkok, as the prices are already quite high (80.000 - 120.000 Baht/sqm). Wouldn't it be better to buy a good quality 2nd hand condominuim in a good location and renovate it to a high standard?

It would be really interesting to hear from you guys which locations are the most interesting ones from you point of view and why...

Cheers,

Mike

[steve891]

Dear Community,

I am living in Thailand for about 4 years now and recently married my (thai) wife. As we are planning to stay in Thailand for some more years, I am currently considering to buy property here. Our business gives us a certain flexibility regarding the location of this property. There are basically 2 main locations that we are thinking of: Bangkok and Pattaya.

As buying property should of course also always be seen from an investors point of view, I would like to ask about your opinions regarding these locations. Most people expect the property prices to rise in the future. Is this only restricted to Bangkok or do you think the development will be similar in Pattaya? What are the most interesting locations from your point of view? I was searching the internet for a few days and it seems that the property prices in Pattaya are significantly lower than in Bangkok. Can you agree?

I'm a little bit scared to buy one of those new 1st class condos in Bangkok, as the prices are already quite high (80.000 - 120.000 Baht/sqm). Wouldn't it be better to buy a good quality 2nd hand condominuim in a good location and renovate it to a high standard?

It would be really interesting to hear from you guys which locations are the most interesting ones from you point of view and why...

Cheers,

Mike

Hello Mike,

I have been in Thailand for just on 2 years now,

Myself, I like Pattaya more than Bangkok, although there still is traffic in Pattaya, nothing compared to Bangkok.

The prices for everything in general are cheaper in Pattaya , food - drink - entertainment - Property

Ther are some Islands just of Pattaya, a short boat trip if you want to get away for a quiet day on the beach,

Jomtien area has lots of Resturants, Some good bars for a quite drink, or on a baht bus and you are into Pattaya / Walking Street in no time for 10 - 20 baht.

With the new airport now open, pattaya is only between 1 1/2 to 2 hrs drive away from it depending on traffic.

There are lots of Golf Courses around Pattaya as well.

I happen to have a nice 101 M2 Condo for sale,( I'm looking at the house option )

If you are interestered in looking at some photo's and more info about it let me know.

Thanks

Steve

[londonthai]

as you have a registered company as well thai wife you don't have to be restricted only to condominiums - you can buy any property, away from the inflated prices for the foreigners.

do expect further price drop in pattaya, as the housing market was geared towards farangs - now with the multiple restrictions many are trying to sell their property fast, just to cover their investment.

bangkok is expensive, but the property has true value here - if the housing market crashes some day due to the national or international econoic situation it won't that serious like in the touristy areas.

[UnknownPoster]

I don't like to drive or ride baht busses so Bangkok is preferred.

[teejay]

What are the most interesting locations from your point of view?

Cheers,

Mike

The rectangle bounded by roads Wireless, Sarasin, Langsuan, and Ploenchit. I consider it to be prime location. Near CBD, next to the park, tons of quality restaurants, near many embassies, safe safe place to live. Quite convenient as well if you look at the location relative to public transportation (but I don't think anybody that lives in that area uses public transport anyway. It's quite a lovely area, take a look for yourself (both daytime and at night to get an idea of the general feel).

Thonglor from about soi 10/13 to New Petchburi Rd is nice as well. More Thais than CBD, but also many expats as well. Trendier location than the rectangle described above, but the traffic can get pretty bad as well.... Make sure you buy high, the views are beautiful looking southwest into the city in the evenings.

As far as Pattaya is concerned, I have no opinion, as I try to avoid the place. There may be some nice places tho, other members may be able to provide more info.

[typist]

To live in, I'd prefer to buy something I like - a place where I feel comfortable and at home - rather than worrying too much about resale value.

Personally I like the riverside area, particularly the Area from the Shangri-La to the Sheraton (or on the other side - from the Hilton downwards to Taksin Bridge, or even all the way down to the Marriott - I prefer staying closer to the Skytrain though). Easy access to Skytrain, CBD, river. Lots of Restaurants and Entertainment: all 5 star hotels in the immediate neighbourhood, and much more along Sathorn and Silom.

I agree - you can get good deals at slightly older buildings (even if not all the extra space can be put to good use, due to sometimes less functional layouts).

Another advantage of older buildings is that it's easier to judge what the management is like.

Then again - new buildings may be more hassle-free, at least there is no need to manage a renovation. I quite like the idea of living in one of these duplexes at the River - but I'm not going to buy anything off-plan now 

[gregb]

There are 2 issues here. First, Bangkok or Pattaya. As an investment, I think Bangkok is the less risky of the 2. In a global downturn, there are still an awful lot of middle class to wealthy Thais living in Bangkok. Pattaya on the other hand is completely dependent on tourists and long stay farangs, and that market could go away during a global economic depression.

The second issue is if you've decided on Bangkok, then where. That requires more information. You can be sure that many very rich people will always be rich, the state of the economy not withstanding. Thus, a truly premium 1st class condo is likely to retain its value. Condo's sold to the middle class are very risky by comparison, and a renovated condo in a non luxury building is unlikely to attract the wealthy clientele, thus making that a poor choice. That just increases your exposure without doing anything to mitigate the risk of the investment.

So, if you've got money, absolutely go for the prime locations in the CBD, and get the highest quality condo you can find. On the other hand, if you are looking for a value proposition on a budget, then I would stay away from the CBD. I recently made just such a decision, and my conclusion was to buy on one of the proposed mass transit extensions. You can still get property less than 2km from a proposed mass transit stop for less than 20k/talang wah, and based on past history that is almost guaranteed to go up once the line actually gets built.

Your risk here is that the line doesn't actually get built, but I think given the global energy price trends the government will have no choice but to do a massive buildout of the transit system. People simply won't be able to afford to drive in a decade, and the politicians will not ignore hundreds of thousands of disgruntled middle class voters who can't get to work, or even job interviews if they are unemployed. So it's a safe bet that they will get built, and when they do, your property will appreciate.

So, in summary, Bangkok, either in the CBD if you're independently wealthy, or else along one of the proposed mass transit routes less than 2km from a station if you're looking for a bargain. Stay away from anything not within 2km of a mass transit stop, as rising oil/energy prices are likely to seriously depress the property values in these areas

[Irene]

Comments in bold type:

Dear Community,

I am living in Thailand for about 4 years now and recently married my (thai) wife. As we are planning to stay in Thailand for some more years, I am currently considering to buy property here. Our business gives us a certain flexibility regarding the location of this property. There are basically 2 main locations that we are thinking of: Bangkok and Pattaya.

Your alternative choice to Bangkok is commendable. Pataya is a strategical town with the best infrastructure and potential growth when compared with others.

As buying property should of course also always be seen from an investors point of view, I would like to ask about your opinions regarding these locations. Most people expect the property prices to rise in the future. Is this only restricted to Bangkok or do you think the development will be similar in Pattaya?

The price in Pataya should rise in the same range as Bangkok. But some area in Bangkok could be worse than Pataya. The Central District area of condos near to mass transit station, supermarket and park should in the long run fetch higher price than the growth rate of Pataya in general. (One important issue to look out for is the management of the condo.)What are the most interesting locations from your point of view? I was searching the internet for a few days and it seems that the property prices in Pattaya are significantly lower than in Bangkok. Can you agree?

Agree. But there are exceptions in Bangkok especially those badly managed condos or below average condos.

I'm a little bit scared to buy one of those new 1st class condos in Bangkok, as the prices are already quite high (80.000 - 120.000 Baht/sqm). Wouldn't it be better to buy a good quality 2nd hand condominuim in a good location and renovate it to a high standard?

You have a point. But units in the good quality 2nd hand condo are not that many available for sale.

It would be really interesting to hear from you guys which locations are the most interesting ones from you point of view and why...

Per your headline, Location, location and location. What does that mean? It means that with the right location (i.e. mass transit, supermarket, park and good management) and even more expensive than the others, in ten years time, you could find the price you have today paid for was rather cheap. The main reason is the scarcity of the existence of the four ideals by ten years time. As Bob Hope used to say when he bought prime property in Los Angeles that God does not make property like that any more.

Cheers,

Mike

[Rossi]

So, if you've got money, absolutely go for the prime locations in the CBD, and get the highest quality condo you can find. On the other hand, if you are looking for a value proposition on a budget, then I would stay away from the CBD. I recently made just such a decision, and my conclusion was to buy on one of the proposed mass transit extensions. You can still get property less than 2km from a proposed mass transit stop for less than 20k/talang wah, and based on past history that is almost guaranteed to go up once the line actually gets built.

Well, I am for sure not very rich, so I can't afford these 1st class condos. One of my friends proposed me to have a look at the Patanakan/Srinakarin area. There are a lot of new project over there, it is still quite close to the city and the airport und the new train from the airport to the city is just next door. The prices there are still reasonable. Is your posting correct? You payed less than 20k/talang wah? That would be less than 5k/square meter! That sounds extremely cheap! In what area is this?

[fletchsmile]

For me the key question is whether you're looking at nesting or investing.

Horses for course tho'. Not saying any one is better than they other. But these are my preferences:

For investing I'd go for Bangkok, mid-higher end, central locations. eg Sathorn, Sukhumvit, (including Lumpini, Ploenchit etc), and near BTS or MRT. Pattaya seems to have a glut of cheaper properties (and oversupply in many things), tho there is some higher end stuff. My take tho' would be if you can afford the higher end stuff in Pattaya, go for other seaside locations instead which are nicer.

For nesting, personally I'd choose Bangkok over Pattaya. I'd also consider Chiang Mai (2nd city good balance, cultural,) or Hua Hin (near beach, and only 2-3hours from Bangkok). Tho' it really depends on what you're looking for in life. There's no doubt Pattaya is cheap and cheerful and good vfm in some ways. but not particularly nice looking for a seaside area. It also has it's stigma for sex tourism attached to it, which will be make or break for many people. i.e Each to their own on the latter, and bear in mind for business image you may not want to be living close to say Nana or Walking Street. Personally I also wouldn't want my daughter growing up in Pattaya, or lower Sukhumvit (say soi 1-33 odd and soi 0-22 even), which is something to bear in mind if you have or are thinking of having kids. Think those are more places for broad-minded adults only

Edited September 24, 2007 by fletchthai68

[Maigo6]

Some good points.

Personally I would go for high end in Bkk over Pattaya, you never know what a Thai Government will do in the future, they only have to crackdown on sex tourism by closing up the go-go bars etc, and Pattaya property prices will plunge.

Bkk is better I would think.

[ace]

Some good advice here.

Last time I took the bus from Pattya to Bangkok I noticed a lot of billboards in upper Sukhumvit (round about On-Nut) which seemed to be advertising new build condos in the area under 2m baht. They were in Thai so I can't be sure but I think that was the deal - maybe get the wife to take a look?

[wileycoyote]

On balance a suburb of Bangkok.

Wiley Coyote

[quiksilva]

If I was to put it in an English context it would be like saying is it better to buy in London, or Blackpool?

Well that depends on what you want. Capital cities tend to offer the best long term prospects for capital appreciation. Personally I prefer Bangkok on all levels. For instance, some suburbs have very light traffic on the weekends eg Rama 3, Sathorn, Suan Plu, Narathiwas, Yenakart in the central CBD or look at areas like Thonburi, which will certainly appreciate following the arrival of the BTS (and in fact is already showing signs of growth) etc.

Other areas like Phaholyothin are up and and coming too and have a great range of restaurants and affordable accommodation. Basically follow the wealth, and look at areas with lots of new housing estates (that are selling) and have good transport infrastructure and are no more than 30 minutes from the CBD. A well heeled local population will drive the area upwards as new businesses start up (restaurants, facilities etc.), if the area is new enough you will be able to get in early and watch your investment grow.

Or buy expensive and experience somewhat slower but steady growth.

[fletchsmile]

If I was to put it in an English context it would be like saying is it better to buy in London, or Blackpool?

....

Blackpool without hesitation

[london]

You have received some really helpful responses.

I too am more partial to Bangkok for all the reasons given above.

It really depends too on what lifestyle you are looking for.....if you want the capital city buzz or the more laid back lifestyle in a beach town.

Certainly there are huge developments going up along Jomtien beach and I must say that many of these worry me due to lack of planning (ie 6 small elevators in a 40 storey building). In Pattaya too there is a lot of new building going on.

But at the end of the day, you can always "escape" Bangkok and go down to Pattaya.

Really, you have a great amount of choice ...... based on your budget......of course.

Just see which area feels right for you. I always find its that simple.

Good luck !

Edited September 25, 2007 by london

[jing jing]

As buying property should of course also always be seen from an investors point of view, I would like to ask about your opinions regarding these locations. Most people expect the property prices to rise in the future. Is this only restricted to Bangkok or do you think the development will be similar in Pattaya? What are the most interesting locations from your point of view? I was searching the internet for a few days and it seems that the property prices in Pattaya are significantly lower than in Bangkok. Can you agree?

One can never predict with certainty what will happen in the future, and as investment disclaimers typically state, future results may not reflect past performance, but Bangkok and Pattaya have both seen considerable appreciation in property values.

I lived in Bangkok for about a year and though there are many things to like about the city, there are just as many if not more things that put me off. In my opinion the only persuasive reason to live there would be if work requires it, which is not the case for me. Chiang Mai has all the disadvantages, i.e. heavy traffic, congestion, and pollution, of Bangkok with virtually none of the advantages.

My preference is to live near the sea while maintaining some proximity to Bangkok. Hua Hin and Cha-Am merit consideration but in the final analysis, for me, that area is too sedate and the drive to Bkk is not so convenient compared with Chonburi.

Pattaya proper, meaning in the city itself, is out of the question because I have a family and the sleaze and congestion factors are way too high. Condos are out of the question for me because I need space for the kids to play and room to work on my toys.

The area I've identified after over a year of searching is located about 20 minutes south of Pattaya on the northern edge of amphur Sattahip known as Bang Saray. The terrain is hilly and many properties have beautiful views of the mountains or or the sea. In the year since I first learned about it, land prices there have risen 30-50% and show little sign of slowing down. I only wish I'd bought something a year ago, as a good friend of mine did.

To put it in a nutshell, I was looking for a place to build a very comfortable home I can enjoy for years to come and leave to my children when I'm gone. Prime real estate in a scenic area not far from the capital, located near the sea and surrounded by large, expensive homes, will not lose value over the long term and will most likely appreciate. People with money will always seek out such areas, and as such, they will outperform other, more ordinary properties as investments.

As the title of the topic states: location, location, location...

[pkrv]

As buying property should of course also always be seen from an investors point of view, I would like to ask about your opinions regarding these locations. Most people expect the property prices to rise in the future. Is this only restricted to Bangkok or do you think the development will be similar in Pattaya? What are the most interesting locations from your point of view? I was searching the internet for a few days and it seems that the property prices in Pattaya are significantly lower than in Bangkok. Can you agree?

One can never predict with certainty what will happen in the future, and as investment disclaimers typically state, future results may not reflect past performance, but Bangkok and Pattaya have both seen considerable appreciation in property values.

I lived in Bangkok for about a year and though there are many things to like about the city, there are just as many if not more things that put me off. In my opinion the only persuasive reason to live there would be if work requires it, which is not the case for me. Chiang Mai has all the disadvantages, i.e. heavy traffic, congestion, and pollution, of Bangkok with virtually none of the advantages.

My preference is to live near the sea while maintaining some proximity to Bangkok. Hua Hin and Cha-Am merit consideration but in the final analysis, for me, that area is too sedate and the drive to Bkk is not so convenient compared with Chonburi.

Pattaya proper, meaning in the city itself, is out of the question because I have a family and the sleaze and congestion factors are way too high. Condos are out of the question for me because I need space for the kids to play and room to work on my toys.

The area I've identified after over a year of searching is located about 20 minutes south of Pattaya on the northern edge of amphur Sattahip known as Bang Saray. The terrain is hilly and many properties have beautiful views of the mountains or or the sea. In the year since I first learned about it, land prices there have risen 30-50% and show little sign of slowing down. I only wish I'd bought something a year ago, as a good friend of mine did.

To put it in a nutshell, I was looking for a place to build a very comfortable home I can enjoy for years to come and leave to my children when I'm gone. Prime real estate in a scenic area not far from the capital, located near the sea and surrounded by large, expensive homes, will not lose value over the long term and will most likely appreciate. People with money will always seek out such areas, and as such, they will outperform other, more ordinary properties as investments.

As the title of the topic states: location, location, location...

Beautifully written - as we all move through life, we all change - PKRV

[gregb]

Is your posting correct? You payed less than 20k/talang wah? That would be less than 5k/square meter! That sounds extremely cheap! In what area is this?

Head out towards the ends of the lines. You'll find them. Rangsit/Muang Ake on the Red Line or Taling Chan area on the purple line. You basically have to go and drive around a bit. Find an area that looks good and well maintained, and then start asking around the neighborhood, and check the telephone poles. 20k/wah or under is very possible. The closer you move towards the city center, the higher the price will be. That is to be expected.

[londonthai]

yes, the price around talling chan was from 20k/talang wah only a year ago - after the confirmation of the purple line and the motorway to the town centre the prices shoot 30k+.

just a year ago I have bought a small piece of land there even below 20k

[Rossi]

Thanks everybody for all the good advice!