Online Info Re Planning Permission Etc.

[corkman]

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering could someone point me in the right direction with regard to Ownership of Land, Planning Permission, and Planning Guidlines. I am talking in the context of the Isaan region, and I am looking at small, private development.

My wife is from a small village, 40km north of Mukdahan. We have a small amount of land (7 rai) which is in her name. We would eventually like to build a house (or indeed 3 or 4 houses) on this land, with a view to living there eventually, and providing homes for our children, should they want them. I would also be interested in aquairing choice plots for furture investment. I am only 29, so time is on my side in that paying 50-60k for a plot now is small money - but in 10-15-20yrs time this is going to be worth alot more...... i.e. around about the time I intend to retire.

Here in Ireland, I am an engineer, so I already possess alot of the skills and knowhow - I just lack local knowledge. Any pointers toward online sources of info would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[quiksilva]

I doubt whether you will find much information online in English, especially about planning.

You are far better buying sets of the applicable local town plans from the local land department office and having the pages of the relevant blocks translated, that should tell you all you need to know --- IF the area you are talking about has a town plan.

If not then I predict that many meetings with the land department office is in your future

[corkman]

Thanks for the reply.

The reason the whole idea of planning permission came to mind was something I ready here, recommending that someone get planning permission to build on their land, as it would “quadruple the land value” in years to come. So in general, you would simply seek an agreement with the local government, as oppose to the long protracted process of submitting detailed engineers / architects plans as we do in the west?

I doubt very much that there is a "town plan" in place in the area...... and generally speaking, at the moment, people just build what they want, where they want.......

On my last visit to the area, a couple of Farangs had been seen around the area, and my gut feeling is that this area will, in time, develop into a nice little town.... it has all the hall marks of it, and in another 5 yrs its going to be jsut as expensive to buy land / houses near Mukdahan town as it is to buy down south..... so Farangs and well to do Thai folk looking for decent homes at bargin prices will be looking in area's such as this (there are signs of it already). I want to get in before the gold rush, as it were, but I want to do so in the knowledge that my investment won't be a 'spruce goose'. I am also loking at farming based investments in the area.

I have already made the mistake of "buying" within the village itself, to discover that it is essentially governement land, and all I have done is purchased the right to reside on it...... I won't make that mistake again. But I do have the aforementioned 7 rai of land, which is actually mine (well, my wifes).

So - if I am going to start looking into this "planning permission" idea at a local governemnt level, am I better to keep a low profile and let my wife do the talking - are there going to be "special" circumstances for farangs etc...... or even the wife of farangs?

Thanks for your input.

[quiksilva]

Definitely get the wife to do the talking. First step ask her to go down to the land department and ask for a copy of the town plan, yes that will be unlikely if you are in the sticks but you never know, and in any event it opens up the channels of discussion regarding planning permission.

Be very wary with some of the advice you read here, planning permission may add absolutely zero to the value of a land parcel. There are of course excpetions to this rule. For instance, say you are have planning permission to build a condo in Bangkok under the 10:1 floor to area ratio, in an area which now can only build 6:1 that would be quite valuable as you can sell more space under the old rules.

But these circumstances are rare.

If you are taking a long term view focus on the basics: location, location location. Its used so much that it has almost become a cliche but its true.

[corkman]

Definitely get the wife to do the talking. First step ask her to go down to the land department and ask for a copy of the town plan, yes that will be unlikely if you are in the sticks but you never know, and in any event it opens up the channels of discussion regarding planning permission.

Be very wary with some of the advice you read here, planning permission may add absolutely zero to the value of a land parcel. There are of course excpetions to this rule. For instance, say you are have planning permission to build a condo in Bangkok under the 10:1 floor to area ratio, in an area which now can only build 6:1 that would be quite valuable as you can sell more space under the old rules.

But these circumstances are rare.

If you are taking a long term view focus on the basics: location, location location. Its used so much that it has almost become a cliche but its true.

Thanks again, for the second reply :-)

When you say "location location lcoation" - are you speaking nationally or locally? If nationally, well unfortunately I don't really have teh money to invest in up and coming locations such as cha'am etc. If you mean locally - then I hope to make any future purchases that are near to the village or the main (black) road. I tend to visit twice a year - if I bought a modest plot every time I wet out, while land remains cheap, I would soon own quite a few - and they are never going to loose money.

My next trip is going to be a major reconnaisance mission - looking at plots near the village, and no so near the village, and so on. In the 20km distance from my wifes village to That Phanom, there are at least 10 houses that hit teh 3 or 4 million baht mark.... and at least another 20 that hit the 2-3million........ so there is a market in teh area for such houses, and my wifes village is in the middle of That Phanon and Mukdahan, it is right on the Mekong, and as the two towns expand, it is the likes of this little village that will become attractive for the overflow populations........

The one down side to this plan is that Thai people in general would probably prefer to buy the land and build themselves - since half of them are either builders, or have builders in the family.........

Thanks for your input.

[quiksilva]

Location location location is a golden rule and applies on macro and micro levels.

Areas such as you described generally experience fairly slow growth, although there are exceptions and sometimes villages and towns grow at incredible rates, but to pick these out you REALLY have to understand the demographics of your area as well as the drivers for demand. Ask around, why did they buy land in this area? I suspect that most of it will be because its been in the family for years. Understanding that will be critical to your success.

Land speculation is a favourite hobby of a number of my clients, they tend to be very wealthy Chinese Thais who own 1000's of rai in their portfolios, absolutely staggering amounts. So much they often forget what they have and ask people like me o review it for them.

These guys take a long term view, 10-20+ years, they choose their spots carefully. Buying land next to major travel hubs, like say a railway or bus station, along main roads, close to intersections as close to town as possible.

Be warned. Their investments don't always pay off, but their portfolios are so large it doesn't matter. They may take decades to appreciate, but they can pay off BIG, but rarely in the short term.

The question you should ask yourself is can you afford to wait that long? If you can't, then perhaps you should consider other investment products.

Sometimes a smaller slice of a bigger pie can reap better rewards.

[corkman]

Thanks again for the input!

Well yes, I do have time on my side. I have just turned 29, and don't see myself moving to Thailand for at least another 10yrs, and more likely 20 yrs. I am veiwing this as an investment for my retirement, to supplement pensions etc. I am thinking along the lines that the land will almost certainly not depreciate, and a few thousand euros here and there is not worth investing in Ireland.

Thanks for the tips regarding places to start looking - intersetions etc. Next time I am there I am going to do some serious reconaisance in the area. The village is about 30km from the new "friendship 2" bridge to Loas. While I do not think that is going to directly influence the immdiate vacinity of the village, it will directly influence Mukdhan itself, which in turn will drag the satalite towns up with it - and as I say, the village is actually a nice little place, right next to the river, and alot of the infastructure to develop the village into a town already exists, and it already draws quite a few people during the Thai New Year.

Thanks again for your interest and replies.

Edited September 30, 2007 by corkman