Children On Motorbikes

[Dont Panic]

These people who put their new borns on bikes and hit the road in Bangkok have no choice.........there is no bus they can take and taxis are too expensive......fine........but is it fine to then try and break the land speed record or have a go a bit of undertaking......?

By the way no answers to my previous questions as yet.......

cheers

[Daewoo]

If you sit on the back of a morocycle carrying a newborn baby and allow the driver to over take or undertake on a main road are you stupid?

Yes or no?

If I did it, yes... I would know better, and in no way take that risk...

If a Thai did it, who was probably born with a motorbike between their legs, who has probably been on a motorbike more days than not... and hasn't been killed by stupid undertaking/overtaking/speeding/drink riding, not an idiot, just doesn't know better... I wouldn't call them an idiot...

There is no such thing as common sense... if there was, we wouldn't have a word for it, 'cause no body would ever do things differently to what we thought was common sense...

We had some guys from the Highlands of PNG come to stay with us years ago... they had never been ina car faster than 15km/h and were terrified at the 100km/h trip home and probably thought we were idiots... were we?

In a different thread on TV about child seats Neeranam described the safest way to hold a child in a car if there wasn't a child seat. Now, from the other posts from Neeranam that I have read, he seems to be a well educated, sensible, kinda guy... There is no way I would say that he is neglectful, or lacking in common sense... just bought up in a different society with different social norms... If my wife ever caught me taking the kids in a car without child seats, we wouldn't have to worry about contraception every again, that is for sure

Cheers,

Daewoo

[intumult]

Not much argument on this one. I've seen way too many schoolchildren dead in road accidents here; the vast majority dead from massive head trauma. I just put in down to Darwin in motion.

i cant understand why people dont want to protect there children with a helmet ,is it lazyness ,stupidity or meanness.

Maybe for the same reasons we in the 'West' never used to wear seat belts or skid lids. There is always that sense of invulnerability and the feeling that we are so good we will never have an accident, never mind a fatal accident.

How often do you think you will have an accident when you are out driving? Are not accidents something that happen to someone else? Maybe Karma had a part to play when someone else had an accident or it was their own stupidity. The list goes on.

Until it was made law we all looked upon seat belts as ornaments.

It certainly was not macho to wear a skid lid on a motorbike.

Now we see those without as idiots, but it did - as others have said - take a long time for us to reach that obvious conclusion.

[Daewoo]

I just wanted to add, that I in no way support taking kids on motorbikes without a helmet, and not riding very careful when you do... I don't support taking kids in a car out of a car seat...

I can not understand how en masse, Asians, Africans, those from less developed European and South American countries don't stand back and think... "You know, this driving like fools everytime we are in control of a vehicle really isn't working too well for us, maybe we won't drive like retards anymore"...

But I can understand the difference in cultural learning that is the basis for those poor decisions...

Cheers,

Daewoo

Edited September 27, 2007 by Daewoo

[mikethevigoman]

I just wanted to add, that I in no way support taking kids on motorbikes without a helmet, and not riding very careful when you do... I don't support taking kids in a car out of a car seat...

I can not understand how en masse, Asians, Africans, those from less developed European and South American countries don't stand back and think... "You know, this driving like fools everytime we are in control of a vehicle really isn't working too well for us, maybe we won't drive like retards anymore"...

But I can understand the difference in cultural learning that is the basis for those poor decisions...

Cheers,

Daewoo

I think it is an education thing, we are lucky to have had it and been educated as to the reasons for wearing a helmet and only putting 2 people on a bike, however the thais ( and we are in their country ) havent had that luxury afforded to them, i suspect if you stood in the street all day handing out helmets they wouldnt get used, most probably sold ! its a bit like smoking, i dont do and i see it as stupid but i also dont agree on a blanket ban on tobbaco,.,.to the posters question, yes of course it could be dangerous but if i see an accident im not going to run over to a guy with his head split open and shout "there,if you had a helmet on you would have been ok " im sure the thais realise there chances would be better in an accident ,but the bottom line is they dont care, "up to you " Edited September 27, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[Naam]

Asians taking unprotected children on motorbikes is grossly irresponsible and an example of collective stupidity

the -in all respects- superior white farang schoolmaster has spoken. change you stupid Asians... or else!

[Naam]

however the thais ( and we are in their country ) havent had that luxury afforded to them...

however that does not prevent some of us to call them collectively stupid

[mikethevigoman]

however the thais ( and we are in their country ) havent had that luxury afforded to them...

however that does not prevent some of us to call them collectively stupid

Yes i sometimes wonder about the wording of some of the forum members,.he should be printing up pamphlets and stood on a corner handing them out if hes that concerned

[Maigo6]

i cant understand why people dont want to protect there children with a helmet ,is it lazyness ,stupidity or meanness.

Many young kids don't wanna wear Helmets even if they have them, I remember I never wanted to wear a Helmet when I was 16 either, and neither did any of my mates, how many of the Intelligent wonderful all knowing Farangs started complaining when Thailand got tough on the Helmet Law in Pattaya ?

How many helmetless Farangs are still to be seen flying round Pattaya pissed outta their heads on racing motorcycles trying to look cool ?

I understand the point about very young Kids sitting on their Parents lap on a motorcycle, but to once again try to brand Thai people as being stupid and uncaring becuase this happens here and is not permitted in The West is <deleted>, if the west never had Laws against such things, you think you wouldn't see the same things there, maybe not in UK cos the weather like the people are too miserable, but in the warmer countries certainly.

Things change but take time......... I don't understand you miserable moaning lot, all these things you moan about were happening in Thailand when you first set foot in the country, double pricing, No helmets, no seat belts, police corruption, laws barring Farangs from owning land etc etc etc.....

Yet you still made the move knowing this, now you complain about the injustices you witness, if anyone is stupid, look in the mirror pal, yep that's right, it's YOU!!!! YOU decided that you would haul up anchor and move thousands of miles away from the life you was raised on to live in Thailand, nobody forced you.

The Thais are bought up in Thailand with Thai ways, you are just guests who CHOSE to come to Thailand. Deal with it!!

Stop bleedin' moaning for gawds sake, you're like a lot of old women!!

Edited September 27, 2007 by Maigo6

[canuckamuck]

32 people die every day in Thailand in Motorcycle accidents. A figure that has no comparison in the western world at any time, even when helmets were rare. Thai people see or hear about the deaths every day. They also see helmets every day and they do understand that they are used to protect you from injury in the extreme likelyhood of a crash. To not put enough value in your child's life to make the effort to stick a helmet on his head is in a word stupid. However I do notice that they spare no effort to keep away the sun which apparently is the greatest threat to life in Thailand.

Edited September 27, 2007 by canuckamuck

[mikethevigoman]

i cant understand why people dont want to protect there children with a helmet ,is it lazyness ,stupidity or meanness.

Many young kids don't wanna wear Helmets even if they have them, I remember I never wanted to wear a Helmet when I was 16 either, and neither did any of my mates, how many of the Intelligent wonderful all knowing Farangs started complaining when Thailand got tough on the Helmet Law in Pattaya ?

How many helmetless Farangs are still to be seen flying round Pattaya pissed outta their heads on racing motorcycles trying to look cool ?

I understand the point about very young Kids sitting on their Parents lap on a motorcycle, but to once again try to brand Thai people as being stupid and uncaring becuase this happens here and is not permitted in The West is <deleted>, if the west never had Laws against such things, you think you wouldn't see the same things there, maybe not in UK cos the weather like the people are too miserable, but in the warmer countries certainly.

Things change but take time......... I don't understand you miserable moaning lot, all these things you moan about were happening in Thailand when you first set foot in the country, double pricing, No helmets, no seat belts, police corruption, laws barring Farangs from owning land etc etc etc.....

Yet you still made the move knowing this, now you complain about the injustices you witness, if anyone is stupid, look in the mirror pal, yep that's right, it's YOU!!!! YOU decided that you would haul up anchor and move thousands of miles away from the life you was raised on to live in Thailand, nobody forced you.

The Thais are bought up in Thailand with Thai ways, you are just guests who CHOSE to come to Thailand. Deal with it!!

Stop bleedin' moaning for gawds sake, you're like a lot of old women!!

Hey buddy ! well said,.as my mother said the day i left blighty, " dont forget son ,the plane also comes back "

[Maigo6]

Hey buddy ! well said,.as my mother said the day i left blighty, " dont forget son ,the plane also comes back "

lol, I gotta let have it with both barrels Mike, I'm back home on Sunday for about 5 weeks, these posts are my final shots for the time being. No posting from Sunday for over a month.

So if you see a Farang in a Fortuner trying to cut up miserable old Farangs on motorcycles, give me a wave!!

I'm in Patters for the first week.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Maigo6

[Maigo6]

should I hand over my brain when I come East?

Oh, sorry, I thought you already had.

[Maigo6]

32 people die every day in Thailand in Motorcycle accidents.

That's cos there's a lot of motorcycles in Thailand!!!!

There a lot of Cars in USA, that's why over 40,000 people a year die on US roads.

It ain't rocket science.

[Savage]

however the thais ( and we are in their country ) havent had that luxury afforded to them...

however that does not prevent some of us to call them collectively stupid

Yes i sometimes wonder about the wording of some of the forum members,.he should be printing up pamphlets and stood on a corner handing them out if hes that concerned

I use the term collectively stupid in the same way that I would describe the British as collectively stupid when they go on holiday, or the American government with their foreign policy. I can be stupid at times, as i'm sure you and everybody else can.

I love Thailand and almost everything about here & Asia. I used this terminology to generate debate, I feel no need to be politically correct on this issue. I find placing a toddler on a petrol tank of a motorbike whilst weaving in and out of traffic stupid.

Some of you wish to mutate the debate to an issue of helmets for adults or seat belts in cars, I am not talking about this issue AT ALL.

Every adult has the choice to do what the hel_l they like with their OWN lives, indeed, I agree 100%. Babies & children don't have that choice do they? Is that fair on them?

Do you think that immigrants to the West should be allowed to debate issues like this when they pay tax and contribute to society? I think so, just as I think we should be allowed to debate these issues here.

I will continue to do so, I will live here positively and will continue to love most things about Thailand. What I wont do is look at it through utopian vision as if nothing could ever be wrong with it.

I hope you can appreciate my point.

Edited September 27, 2007 by Savage

[Savage]

however the thais ( and we are in their country ) havent had that luxury afforded to them...

however that does not prevent some of us to call them collectively stupid

Yes i sometimes wonder about the wording of some of the forum members,.he should be printing up pamphlets and stood on a corner handing them out if hes that concerned

I use the term collectively stupid in the same way that I would describe the British as collectively stupid when they go on holiday, or the American government with their foreign policy. I can be stupid at times, as i'm sure you and everybody else can.

I love Thailand and almost everything about here & Asia. I used this terminology to generate debate, I feel no need to be politically correct on this issue. I find placing a toddler on a petrol tank of a motorbike whilst weaving in and out of traffic stupid.

Some of you wish to mutate the debate to an issue of helmets for adults or seat belts in cars, I am not talking about this issue AT ALL.

Every adult has the choice to do what the hel_l they like with their OWN lives, indeed, I agree 100%. Babies & children don't have that choice do they? Is that fair on them?

Do you think that immigrants to the West should be allowed to debate issues like this when they pay tax and contribute to society? I think so, just as I think we should be allowed to debate these issues here.

I will continue to do so, I will live here positively and will continue to love most things about Thailand. What I wont do is look at it through utopian vision as if nothing could ever be wrong with it.

I hope you can appreciate my point.

In addition I would like to add that I don't mean that Asians are stupid, I think the act of putting a baby/child on a motorbike without protection is stupid

Edited September 27, 2007 by Savage

[meemiathai]

The act of putting a baby/child on a motorbike without protection is only stupid if an accident occurs. If no accident, it is smart and cool!

[canuckamuck]

32 people die every day in Thailand in Motorcycle accidents.

That's cos there's a lot of motorcycles in Thailand!!!!

There a lot of Cars in USA, that's why over 40,000 people a year die on US roads.

It ain't rocket science.

Well you might try simple math.

32 dead per day times 365 days = 11680

USA has approx 4.3 times more people. 11680 x 4.3 = 50224

Motorcycle deaths alone in Thailand outnumber all road deaths in the USA on a per capita basis. But hey it's cultural so it must be ok. You can always make another kid right.

You need a license to drive the bike but you don't need one to be a parent.

[Maigo6]

But hey it's cultural so it must be ok. You can always make another kid right.

So are you suggesting that Thai people don't care about their children and it's a cultural trait?

I find driving in Thailand is OK, then again I adapt to my surroundings, I don't come from the west and expect it to be the same, that's why I left the west.

Many Farangs want Thailand to be like the same dumps they fled from, all except the things that are advantagous to them of course!

Edited September 27, 2007 by Maigo6

[canuckamuck]

But hey it's cultural so it must be ok. You can always make another kid right.

So are you suggesting that Thai people don't care about their children and it's a cultural trait?

I find driving in Thailand is OK, then again I adapt to my surroundings, I don't come from the west and expect it to be the same, that's why I left the west.

Many Farangs want Thailand to be like the same dumps they fled from, all except the things that are advantagous to them of course!

We all know that you lead the committee for self-loathing farangs.

What do your driving habits have to do with anything? People are crashing, and they are locals. I like to see kids not dead or brain damaged, how twisted is that?. The fact that people spoke out for helmet laws in the west is the reason people were forced to change. Now it's normal to wear a helmet. Should we be sorry about that? Believe it or not, not every thing that has occurred in the west is a step backwards. You are the one arguing in favor of helmetless children in Thai traffic.

[Acquiesce]

Reasons why no helmet;

1. Inadequate disposable income

2. Limited availability of the helmets.

3. No education effort, particularly in schools and directed at women. (Seatbelt laws in the EU and N.A. had better compliance when the school age kids started nagging the parents to buckle up. Look at most western teenagers today and you see they buckle up. It's the older folks that don't.)

4. No consistent enforcement of existing laws.

[Maigo6]

We all know that you lead the committee for self-loathing farangs.

I resigned from that post, now I am in the chair of FBU, the Farang Bashers Union.

[Maigo6]

The fact that people spoke out for helmet laws in the west is the reason people were forced to change. Now it's normal to wear a helmet.

Except when westerners come to Thailand, get pizzed outta their brains, rent a superbike and plough helmetlessly into a wall, or even an innocent Thai family of 6 on another Motorcycle!

Edited September 27, 2007 by Maigo6

[canuckamuck]

The fact that people spoke out for helmet laws in the west is the reason people were forced to change. Now it's normal to wear a helmet.

Except when westerners come to Thailand, get pizzed outta their brains, rent a superbike and plough helmetlessly into a wall, or even an innocent Thai family of 6 on another Motorcycle!

I agree completeley, natural selection never completely gets them all though, pity.

[JetsetBkk]

Not much argument on this one. I've seen way too many schoolchildren dead in road accidents here; the vast majority dead from massive head trauma. I just put in down to Darwin in motion.

i cant understand why people dont want to protect there children with a helmet ,is it lazyness ,stupidity or meanness.

More like: "It'll never happen to me in this quiet little village...

Don't worry, dad's OK. Pity about the two kids though.

Sorry, three kids.

[elkangorito]

The fact that people spoke out for helmet laws in the west is the reason people were forced to change.

People spoke out? Do you mean that people were bitching about other people, whom they didn't even know, about riding motorbikes without helmets? How caring of them!

Wearing a helmet is a personal choice. If you don't wear a helmet & hurt your head in a related accident, why would other people be worried about this?

I dislike rules as it is but I dislike "do-gooders" even more.

[JetsetBkk]

Wearing a helmet is a personal choice. If you don't wear a helmet & hurt your head in a related accident, why would other people be worried about this?

For a single rider on a bike, it's hard to disagree. But in the UK, one of the reasons for the stricter law was the cost to the National Health Service of keeping the seriously injured alive.

Of course, there were also some who thought these half brain-dead bikers should be rushed to the nearest hospital and quietly anaesthetised to put them put of their - and our costly - misery.

[Tony Clifton]

Not much argument on this one. I've seen way too many schoolchildren dead in road accidents here; the vast majority dead from massive head trauma. I just put in down to Darwin in motion.

i cant understand why people dont want to protect there children with a helmet ,is it lazyness ,stupidity or meanness.

More like: "It'll never happen to me in this quiet little village...

Don't worry, dad's OK. Pity about the two kids though.

Sorry, three kids.

]

The kid in front is the airbag.

Kids ride to and from school without helmets around here, says a lot about the schools.

Anyway, all traffic related problems are the result of years of incompetence and indifference of the Thai police force at managing a road system where kamikaze maneuvers are too common and seen as the norm. There's just no excuse.

[xyborg]

<br />Reasons why no helmet;<br />1. Inadequate disposable income <br />2. Limited availability of the helmets.<br />3. No education effort, particularly in schools and directed at women. (Seatbelt laws in the EU and N.A. had better compliance when the school age kids started nagging the parents to buckle up. Look at most western teenagers today and you see they buckle up. It's the older folks that don't.)<br />4. No consistent enforcement of existing laws.<br /><br />Protective gear is important but if not used properly is useless. I was at a seminar a few years ago when they put up the results of the USA/Canadian Baby Seat blitz day event. (It's where the cops park wherever moms and kids are sure to be and go around offering to check the baby seats.) Almost 90% deficiency result with 40% so poorly installed that they would have failed in a serious vehicle impact. The police inspector got a laugh when she said the most common comment from the vehicle drivers was that a male had installed the seat.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

5 Karma

[madjbs]

Most people just wear a helmet in order to avoid a police fine. Thats why you dont see passangers and kids wearing them. Most people realise that those useless pieces of plastic arnt going to make any difference if you happen to fall off, so they only wear if they have to.