Are You All That Cheap?!?!?

[realthaideal]

Enough bagging on teachers already. And who says they are backpackers or need a shower? Plenty of older smelly Farang here - plenty I wouldn't wanna sit next to at a bar. PU. Just because some guy worked like a slave and bought into a dream he now deems false, but made more money than some teacher who got out of his Western country early, doesn't make that first guy any more valuable over here. Just another bitter person looking down on happy though poorer youth, perhaps with a case of sour grapes. Many of the teachers move on to much better positions with other companies or opening their own businesses after deciding they are tired of living on sustenance wages. The game of who is higher and mightier is as old n tired as most of those who usually play it!

And as to the actual topic here..... clearly alot of people upset by the trend toward adding a service charge... are the restaurant owners being made aware of this thread and the original one that started this spinoff ?? That is the question. Otherwise we are just making so much noise among ourselves (as usual). I have seen friends' businesses discussed in various areas here b4, and only upon my telling them to go look did they find out they were the hot topic here for awhile. Many business owners don't have the free time or the desire to live virtually as their real lives keep them otherwise fascinated...though they should be aware of what's the to-do about their establishments either way.

[Wizzard of Oz]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

I don't understand what this even means.

Not to mention it is irrelevant to the topic.

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

Sorry, why should I go home? (btw, I make 25k )

Yeah, I don't get it either. I do have an idea but will wait for an explanation of what was meant first.

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

Finally something sensible has been said................especially those smelly back-packers that wear neckties and pose as ET's.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of backpackers, but as far as I'm aware, backpackers are - by definition - passing through. If someone is working here earning 20-ish k a month, then I suspect they are here for a longer term. Otherwise it would have been far easier and much quicker to save up while in their native country.

Your response is still missing the point of the thread btw.

There is a big difference between cheap and stupid.

Why pay 10% more to an owner who is stealing from his impoverished employees?

w00t ... back on topic. Though I suspect it was an accident where someone went offtopic to the offtopic replies and just happened to get back to the original topic by chance =)

What's with all of the farangs I meet here in Thailand? All you wanna do is horde your money and never share.

Perhaps you should get around more and meet some other farangs. I and a lot of the farangs that I know regularly are happy to give extra for work well done and to give to support the communities. But you will not find them by trying to follow a trail of 20 baht notes they leave behind.

Yeah that is true. While I am cheap, I do tip my hairdresser 50% becasue I really like the way she cuts it. I don't tip in most restaurants cuz they just gimme food. What the hel_l is a waiter even paid for??? Note also that in Australia tipping is not standard at all. So I generally tip if something is particularly great. Otherwise meh - whatever.

But having a restaurant owner force you to pay a tip, and then take the tip for himself so the employees don't get any tips. That's something I have to learn to love aye? Take your rich phalang money and BUY A FKN CLUE.

[Ajarn]

I have also been told you instantly vomit on the floor at the mention of my name.

Like many things you promote here, someone told you wrong.

[john b good]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

Sorry, why should I go home? (btw, I make 25k )

I don't work here, never have, and regardless of where I work I would never get out of bed for B25K/mth (mind you, I would't get out of bed for B100K/mth either for that matter)

I would rather work for free, 'for the satisfaction of doing so' but I guess that some don't have the choices that some of us have.

And no I didn't get a fat inheritance either.

[Donnyboy]

What's with all of the farangs I meet here in Thailand? All you wanna do is horde your money and never share.

If I hear one more farang utter the words "Its so cheap..." my head will explode.. I have met so many cheapskates here , its ridiculous.. Now we got a guy starting a post over a 10% service charge?? You people were blessed to have the opportunity to make a living in the west, when you come to Thailand, please open your wallets and share a little.

its so cheap!

[Donnyboy]

Typically the service charge is to take the place of the tip and it is spread amongst all the staff, including, admin, cleaners, kitchen security etc... from the owners side it can also be used as leverage against breakage and theft etc... from the customers position if the food and service is good a 15% tip is not much to give so with the 10% service there is still room to leave the server a little extra.

I have spoken to many workers in Thai establishments over the decades about these "service charges" and with a few notable exceptions, the money goes into the pocket of the owner and not to the workers. You have to understand that there are some Thai citizens people who get physically ill when they see Farangs give significant tips to workers who they consider to be sub-human.

Bullshit

Is this the standard response to everything you disagree with.

straight to the point and honest

[Wizzard of Oz]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

Sorry, why should I go home? (btw, I make 25k )

I don't work here, never have, and regardless of where I work I would never get out of bed for B25K/mth (mind you, I would't get out of bed for B100K/mth either for that matter)

I would rather work for free, 'for the satisfaction of doing so' but I guess that some don't have the choices that some of us have.

And no I didn't get a fat inheritance either.

Great point. Uhhh ... what was it again?

[Donnyboy]

@donnyboy

as far as I know, you only get a VAT refund for a purchase you take outside the country, as long as you are a tourist. I never heard about food you ate already. But if you know otherwise, it would be great, if you would share your wisdom with us.

I guess if you eat in the cafe at the airport and obtain a vat receipt, Im sure you will be able to obtain a vat refund, by going to the Vat office in the departure lounge. They will however, need to view the contents of your purchase, so Im not sure whether they insert a gastric camera at the front or back end, this would depend on the rate of your digestion, but this will be covered in the VAT handbook.

Hope this clarifies.

[Donnyboy]

@donnyboy

as far as I know, you only get a VAT refund for a purchase you take outside the country, as long as you are a tourist. I never heard about food you ate already. But if you know otherwise, it would be great, if you would share your wisdom with us.

I guess if you eat in the cafe at the airport and obtain a vat receipt, Im sure you will be able to obtain a vat refund, by going to the Vat office in the departure lounge. They will however, need to view the contents of your purchase, so Im not sure whether they insert a gastric camera at the front or back end, this would depend on the rate of your digestion, but this will be covered in the VAT handbook.

Hope this clarifies.

BTW,

in regard to VAT refunds on consumed beer, wine, soda, water et al, no refunds will be given as the VAT dept are not capable of taking the piss.

[Donnyboy]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

Sorry, why should I go home? (btw, I make 25k )

I don't work here, never have, and regardless of where I work I would never get out of bed for B25K/mth (mind you, I would't get out of bed for B100K/mth either for that matter)

I would rather work for free, 'for the satisfaction of doing so' but I guess that some don't have the choices that some of us have.

And no I didn't get a fat inheritance either.

Great point. Uhhh ... what was it again?

the point is- he says he stays in bed all day

[Tootah]

What's with all of the farangs I meet here in Thailand? All you wanna do is horde your money and never share.

If I hear one more farang utter the words "Its so cheap..." my head will explode.. I have met so many cheapskates here , its ridiculous.. Now we got a guy starting a post over a 10% service charge?? You people were blessed to have the opportunity to make a living in the west, when you come to Thailand, please open your wallets and share a little.

its so cheap!

yeah I agree, its so cheap!(has your head exploded yet?!)

[Naam]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

what's wrong with you? i spend more money on wine but i don't look down on a farang who puts in honest work (in a most probably sh*tty work environment) for 20k Baht and it's none of my or your business whether he works in Thailand or in his home country.

[solo siam]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

what's wrong with you? i spend more money on wine but i don't look down on a farang who puts in honest work (in a most probably sh*tty work environment) for 20k Baht and it's none of my or your business whether he works in Thailand or in his home country.

Not looking down on them, My point is that they won't even be paying income tax at that salary, are most probably illegally working here etc...

Is one thing to be semi-retired and generate some additional income as a teacher, but its another if thats your only income then you are never going to be able to afford to go home, put your children through decent schooling not to mention retirement, healthcare, visa trips.

I can't imagine being here and living off of 250 quid a month, fine if you have other income or are settled financially but it sounds like an easy way to get trapped in a foreign country and end up destitute.

[a99az]

I don’t think it makes a farts difference where you come from or how much cash you have or don’t have

It’s up to you if you don’t like to pay a service charge don’t use the place, easy.

[Naam]

I cant believe that 'pharang' are working here for 20k baht a month, Thailand definitely does not need these people. Go home already..

what's wrong with you? i spend more money on wine but i don't look down on a farang who puts in honest work (in a most probably sh*tty work environment) for 20k Baht and it's none of my or your business whether he works in Thailand or in his home country.

Not looking down on them, My point is that they won't even be paying income tax at that salary, are most probably illegally working here etc...

Is one thing to be semi-retired and generate some additional income as a teacher, but its another if thats your only income then you are never going to be able to afford to go home, put your children through decent schooling not to mention retirement, healthcare, visa trips.

I can't imagine being here and living off of 250 quid a month, fine if you have other income or are settled financially but it sounds like an easy way to get trapped in a foreign country and end up destitute.

your explanations are rational and acceptable for me. however i think none of us should render a judgment unless we know all indepth facts and even then it's not really any of our business.

[eek]

Some of you are so bloody judgmental about others it makes me wonder if you measure your own actions so harshly.

To lump all farang together money-wise is absolutely crazy. Some have a lot of money, some do not. If someone has money to tip or feels the staff member should be tipped that is their decision. In some cases farangs actually cause embarrassment by over-tipping.

I do not always tip, nor do i feel i should always tip. When i do tip, i do so based on how i feel at the time about the service given and what i can afford to give.

I dont go around flashing cash, thinking everything is cheap, or being a cheap-skate. But whatever i decide to do with my money, is no-ones dam business but my own.

[solo siam]

In some cases farangs actually cause embarrassment by over-tipping.

Any explanation for the above quote, seems bizarre to me - Some people back home have given out huge tips in the $1,000's to waiters/waitresses - cafe/bar/restaurant staff. How is it embaressing to be given a big tip?

[BlackArtemis]

Uhhh 20-25k is the starting point for many of the schools here in CM, So what I decided to come to Thailand for a few years and am happy making that $. There are PLENTY of farang making this amount and doing it legally, and plenty more Filipinos doing it for 15-19k a month as well. Sure I could make 30-35 at a place like Dara, Montfort etc, I could also teacher 270+ more kids than i do now, teach up to 7 hours more a week and have an unpaid vacation for 3 months of the year. Some tutoring at home and my wife and I (Thai) are making much more than the base salary, she pulls in more than I do with tutoring. So yeah, i am enjoying my time here, with all my legal papers, showering daily and not pissing my $ away around Guesthouse Ghetto and other crappy establishments. Some of us want to come over here, work for a bit and have fun being young and arrogant, rather than waiting to do it when we are old and bitchy

[tigerbeer]

just another thread to gain attention. . now can we get something more interesting on the chiang mai forum please?

[Blinky Bill]

just another thread to gain attention. . now can we get something more interesting on the chiang mai forum please?

Too true TB but I do love some of the posts from the necktie wearing backbacker ET's

[BlackArtemis]

True, but also I learned the hard way that BB likes to stir the pot for some laughs.

pffft black tie, I clearly wear a red polka dot bow tie, to be a unique snowflake!

[eek]

In some cases farangs actually cause embarrassment by over-tipping.

Any explanation for the above quote, seems bizarre to me - Some people back home have given out huge tips in the $1,000's to waiters/waitresses - cafe/bar/restaurant staff. How is it embaressing to be given a big tip?

Overtipping or being too generous with ones money can result in a loss of face. It is like saying that you feel the person needs it and flaunting the fact you have a lot of cash. In the short period i lived in Florida I noticed (as you mentioned) that people there considered flaunting cash in the form of large tips to be ok. In other countries I have noticed this is considered rather crude (even if done in a discreet manner can be embarrassing for the recipient). In countries such as Argentina and some S.E.Asian countries they are especially sensitive to this. Im no expert, but seems one needs to be careful about showing appreciation for a service.

Anyway, as i stated at the end of my post, I feel it really isnt anyones business how one tips or spends ones cash, its a purely a personal decision.

Edit: the only thing that i think may be worth grumbling about is if people give a percentage of earnings to charity or when they have free time if they consider offering support by volunteering from time to time. Yes people should tip IF THEY CAN and/or if the service was worth it. But judging everyone by the fact they are farang as if all farangs can afford generous tips is biased.

Edited September 29, 2007 by eek

[mcgriffith]

Blinky, stir the pot? He INVENTED the pot, with mega sized stirrer....and that is why we love him dearly (I think).

BTW Blinky, if you go back through Indo, don't forget my kreteks.

McG

[southerndog]

Lol, I was about to flame ya, then I saw it was you. I'm still going to.

LOL... Says the guy that makes 200k baht/month and didn't wanna pay 5 baht for parking.

[solo siam]

In some cases farangs actually cause embarrassment by over-tipping.

Any explanation for the above quote, seems bizarre to me - Some people back home have given out huge tips in the $1,000's to waiters/waitresses - cafe/bar/restaurant staff. How is it embaressing to be given a big tip?

Overtipping or being too generous with ones money can result in a loss of face. It is like saying that you feel the person needs it and flaunting the fact you have a lot of cash. In the short period i lived in Florida I noticed (as you mentioned) that people there considered flaunting cash in the form of large tips to be ok. In other countries I have noticed this is considered rather crude (even if done in a discreet manner can be embarrassing for the recipient). In countries such as Argentina and some S.E.Asian countries they are especially sensitive to this. Im no expert, but seems one needs to be careful about showing appreciation for a service.

Anyway, as i stated at the end of my post, I feel it really isnt anyones business how one tips or spends ones cash, its a purely a personal decision.

Edit: the only thing that i think may be worth grumbling about is if people give a percentage of earnings to charity or when they have free time if they consider offering support by volunteering from time to time. Yes people should tip IF THEY CAN and/or if the service was worth it. But judging everyone by the fact they are farang as if all farangs can afford generous tips is biased.

I have never heard of anyone losing 'face' from overtipping, quite the opposite in fact especially here in Thailand.

[Ulysses G.]

I used to be in the service industry and there is no such thing as "over-tipping" from the point of view of those who work for them. A lot of under-tipping going around though!

[sceadugenga]

I used to be in the service industry and there is no such thing as "over-tipping" from the point of view of those who work for them. A lot of under-tipping going around though!

I'm always ready with a tip. Running Ribbons in the third at Cheltenham, never play pool with people who's name ends in Fats, never keep an ace swinging with a pair in draw poker...

[mcgriffith]

About a million years ago, I worked as a taxicab driver in Laguna Beach, CA. We used to be in a rotation for calls, and every few days, we would get a call from a certain address- a very old, and very dear lady, who used to tip a DIME. Yes, a dime, 10 cents. And we would grin and bear it. To her, it was a lot of money (at least in HER mind, circa 1939 anyway )

I always tip generously, having had jobs in my early life where I really counted on, and needed the tip income to exist.

Here in Thailand, things are a bit different. I was told by Thai friends that to leave more than the coins that come with the change, is a faux pas.

I always leave more than that, but it is strictly based on the service rendered. And I am not so wild about the idea of a flat 10% service charge. Here I think it will detract from cash tips left on the table for servers, and more likely than not will just go in the pocket of the owner.

In a lot of other cultures around the world, especially in Europe, no one tips. And I am sure the service charge there applied to the bill is distributed to the staff. Here there is not the same kind of transparency (buzz word of the year!) or labour laws that are enforced.

I say- Leave Whatever Feels Right To You.......

[sceadugenga]

About a million years ago, I worked as a taxicab driver in Laguna Beach, CA. We used to be in a rotation for calls, and every few days, we would get a call from a certain address- a very old, and very dear lady, who used to tip a DIME. Yes, a dime, 10 cents. And we would grin and bear it. To her, it was a lot of money (at least in HER mind, circa 1939 anyway )

I always tip generously, having had jobs in my early life where I really counted on, and needed the tip income to exist.

Here in Thailand, things are a bit different. I was told by Thai friends that to leave more than the coins that come with the change, is a faux pas.

I always leave more than that, but it is strictly based on the service rendered. And I am not so wild about the idea of a flat 10% service charge. Here I think it will detract from cash tips left on the table for servers, and more likely than not will just go in the pocket of the owner.

In a lot of other cultures around the world, especially in Europe, no one tips. And I am sure the service charge there applied to the bill is distributed to the staff. Here there is not the same kind of transparency (buzz word of the year!) or labour laws that are enforced.

I say- Leave Whatever Feels Right To You.......

Hey Macca, I drove cabs in Adelaide for nearly ten years, only a second job though. What a life eh? Garbage money but never a dull moment.

[lannarebirth]

I think many people tend not to tip because they come from countries where sevice people in their opinion have reached the pinnacle of their career path. In America, most people tip, because we know that almost anyone, coming from almost any economic background, can become almost anything they want. Additionally, most of us started our work careers as teenagers doing work that often included tipping as our remuneration. Personally, before I ever got to college, I'd been a paperboy, a busboy and a caddy. all jobs where the earnings were bolstered by tips. I tip where I feel it's warranted and no one is ever going to convince me anyone loses face over the practice.