Using 2 Passports

[jinajinja]

Hi,

I thought about "losing" my passport and get a second one from my embassy (Germany). I travel long time in Asia and other countries, recently I experienced immigration in many countries becoming more restrictive, asking questions and look up all pages in the passport and hassle you when it is full of stamps and when travelling uncommon routes.

Now, when using two passports , there would be less stamps and no tracing of travelling route that could allow finding out how long you are staying overseas, doing visa runs, etc. It would also be of advantage in connection with multiple entry rules.

My question is, does anyone have experience with it? Is the old passport actually unvalid and can it be detected by the computer system of immigration . Is there any database for tourist visits operated by immigration in Thailand or elsewhere. Is it a punishable offence (if any)?

Technically it should be no infringement of any law in a foreign country as the passport and identity are correct and the passport is not expired by date.

Any comments would be highly appreciated. Maybe someone knows about a website where to find information about the databases that are used at airports, if the passport number is checked back electronically etc.

[simey]

It's possible to have two UK passports - I had two until this year. I applied for a second and attached an explanation that my current passport was full so I needed a new one, but I needed to keep my current passport as it had important middle east visas that I could not re-apply for. No problems, and I used both to travel (I actually left the new one in the UK to get an Oz visa while I travelled with the old one and waited for it to catch me up).

[opalhort]

your "lost" PP will be voided and this will be recorded in all databases!!

using a voided PP will land you in a lot of trouble incl. deportation and blacklisting!

most immigration checkpoints are now online and detection is almost certain!

if you have nothing to hide use your original PP or other PPs if you have multiple nationality.

opalhort

[jinajinja]

unfortunately I do not have a second nationality

I am not sure if the passport actually gets voided. About a year ago I obtained a replacement because my previous passport was full, but I had to return the old one as I did not report it lost (should have done?). They asked me if I already had more than one passport, it seems that there are many people using multiple passports. At least in Germany it seems to be somehow chaotic and there is no central register.

I wonder if there is any database at immigration that could verify the passport number, they may have some interpol criminal databases for names, but I do not think they can verify passports in general.

I may approach my embassy and ask them if it would be possible to get two ones or if there is actually voiding of passports.

[huski]

About a year ago I obtained a replacement because my previous passport was full, but I had to return the old one as I did not report it lost (should have done?).

if you got a new passport last year after filling up the previous, what exactly is in the new one that would make you want to replace it?

I wonder if there is any database at immigration that could verify the passport number, they may have some interpol criminal databases for names, but I do not think they can verify passports in general.

thai immigration can look up your name and birthdate and see previous entries into thailand.

[jinajinja]

The passport I have now is 15 months old and already full of stamps that indicate that I was not staying home for that time and there is also no indication of residential status for any other country.

If there is actually any database in Thailand that has records of previous visits it won't be of any advantage and even disadvantage . Of course this would also reveal those with two nationalities, eg. Northern Ireland who usually have a UK and Irish passport. I doubt if there is any such database, any informed information would be appreciated.

[the scouser]

Hi Jinajinja,

Wie gehts? I don't know about the German rules but I used to be an immigration officer in the UK and I would think similar procedures will apply throughout the EU.

Basically, in the UK it is not possible to hold 2 valid British passports concurrently. When a passport is reported as lost it is entered as such on the immigration computer system. If that passport is then swiped through the computer by an immigration officer it will be shown as having been reported lost and whoever presented it to the IO will be in for a tough time. However, there is a limit to how far this information is disseminated; e.g. if someone loses a UK passport it will be entered on the British computer but they may not inform the Thai authorities. Therefore perhaps you could travel around Asia on the "lost" passport but don't use it to re-enter Germany or the EU in general.

The circumstances in which someone can legitimately hold 2 valid British passports of the same national status are, as far as I recall, firstly when an individual has to travel to Israel but has stamps in the existing passport that indicate travel to Arab countries and secondly when working overseas on government service you are allowed to possess both a "normal" passport and a diplomatic one.

Man muss geduldig sein.

Scouse.

[Axel]

In Germany it is legal to hold two (or more) passports at the same time, however, this must be explained in writing giving valid reasons. Israel/Arab countries is a valid reason. Mind you, latest when you extent or change, they will check your travel record. You did not visit either country one p/port is gone.

The reason must (should?) be given by a company, i.e. your employer.

The German basic law guarantees free movement. If you (r employer) explains in writing that you have to travel a lot and often must leave one p/p;ort with a consulate to obtain a visa, while needing the other to exercise your free travel you will get a second one. One is valid for ten years, another one for max. five years, only.

Never use a lost p/port. It is reported as void. Might or might not end up in other country's computers. Definitely it is reported in your own country-system.

If you have two, never, never show both to a foreign immigration-officer. In some countries it will lead to trouble.

With airlines, it coould become necessary to show both. Let's say you travel to LoS on a on e-way ticket and have the visa in a second p/port.

Above for Germany, only. I know from own experience the Swiss authorities did refuse to myt relatives, finally conceeded provided one is deposited with an embassy, which does not really help.

[astral]

Check with your embassy.

In some countries it is perfectly legal to hold more than one passport.

For example. If you travel a lot and need to apply for visas, which may take days/weeks to process, but you need to travel in the interim.

I have two UK passports in this basis, and know of a journalist who has 7 UK passports, for the same reason!!

Do not just loose you passport.

That could be path to disaster

[midas]

As Scouser used to be an immigration officer I was wondering if I can ask him

( or anyone else that happens that happens to know the answer ! ) is

how is ' dual citizenship ' is administered by Immigration departments? What I mean by this is I have two passports- Australian and British. So for all intents and purposes am I regarded technically as having 2 separate ' identities ' for example on matters such as time limits on visas etc or with the common date of birth to the authorities simply group both passports together and take the view that if you use up your time entitlements under one passport - does the same apply with the second passport ? This is a question I have always

wondered ....?

[the scouser]

Hi Midas,

Firstly, some countries recognise dual nationality and others don't. For example the UK does and the USA doesn't but that is only in respect of their own citizens. Therefore, when entering a the USA, for example, you could legitimately present either your Australian or British passport.

If you have previously stayed in a country to the extent of your visa and then re-enter using your second passport there is a chance that the immigration authorities won't match up the two: it is perfectly possible to have 2 John Smiths born on the same day in Australia and the UK. However, any immigration requirements pertain to the person and not the passport and there is a chance that the IO would identify you as already having stayed in the country for the permitted length of time. It's your call as to whether you wish to run the risk.

Hope that clarifies things.

Scouse.

[lopburi3]

Hi Midas,

Firstly, some countries recognise dual nationality and others don't. For example the UK does and the USA doesn't but that is only in respect of their own citizens. Therefore, when entering a the USA, for example, you could legitimately present either your Australian or British passport.

If you have previously stayed in a country to the extent of your visa and then re-enter using your second passport there is a chance that the immigration authorities won't match up the two: it is perfectly possible to have 2 John Smiths born on the same day in Australia and the UK. However, any immigration requirements pertain to the person and not the passport and there is a chance that the IO would identify you as already having stayed in the country for the permitted length of time. It's your call as to whether you wish to run the risk.

Hope that clarifies things.

Scouse.

The USA has no problem with dual nationality. You must be thinking of some other country.

[midas]

" However, any immigration requirements pertain to the person and not the passport " -

That is a bit of a surprise......... I always thought having 2 passports was a huge

advantage but from what you say there doesnt appear to be any real gain...??

I was recently in the USA and yes they gave me a choice which passport I wanted to use because the airline I arrived on at Los Angeles had me down as Australian wheras I submitted my British passport at the counter. They didnt seem to mind

which one I used....

[BKK_banger]

I have had two British passports for many years.

This started at a time when I was travelling a LOT and many countries I visited had lengthy visa processing or I might need another visa whilst I was away from the office. My spare rested in my desk.

I also believe the name in your passport does not have to be the same as on your birth certificate. hence the little box on the form which says "Name as you want it to appear".

For years I fantasised about calling myself Bond, James on my passport. In reality it is much more advantageous as an ID document having it in your own name.

[Darknight]

your "lost" PP will be voided and this will be recorded in all databases!!

using a voided PP will land you in a lot of trouble incl. deportation and blacklisting!

most immigration checkpoints are now online and detection is almost certain!

if you have nothing to hide use your original PP or other PPs if you have multiple nationality.

opalhort

what a croc, sure all computers already exchange data in all country's

Were not that far yet.

[opalhort]

your "lost" PP will be voided and this will be recorded in all databases!!

using a voided PP will land you in a lot of trouble incl. deportation and blacklisting!

most immigration checkpoints are now online and detection is almost certain!

if you have nothing to hide use your original PP or other PPs if you have multiple nationality.

opalhort

what a croc, sure all computers already exchange data in all country's

Were not that far yet.

DON'T use a PP which has been reported as lost/stolen or has been revoked!!! It will land you in trouble!

Recent publizised case is the chess guy who entered Japan on a valid US PP, had it revoked while there and got arrested trying to leave.

Databases are linked nowadays. Thailand may not yet be as up-to-date as other countries but I wouldn't take the risk.

As other posters mentioned, given the right reasons, multiple passports for the same nationality are possible in some countries.

opalhort

[the scouser]

The USA has no problem with dual nationality.

Apologies. I've now researched the matter and I was technically right but wrong in practice. The US oath of allegiance, inter alia, specifically forbids loyalty to any head of state other than its own and therefore by default it is technically unlawful for a US citizen to be a citizen of another country simultaneously. However, it appears from the Stanford university website which I read that in practice a blind eye is turned.

Scouse.

[john b good]

It's possible to have two UK passports - I had two until this year. I applied for a second and attached an explanation that my current passport was full so I needed a new one, but I needed to keep my current passport as it had important middle east visas that I could not re-apply for. No problems, and I used both to travel (I actually left the new one in the UK to get an Oz visa while I travelled with the old one and waited for it to catch me up).

Generally with passports from the 'old dart' they will stitch your old passport to your new if you have current visas in it (the old one)

Better to get yourself dual nationality and run with passports from each country.

[Smokin Joe]

This has got to set a new record for the stupidest misinformation posted on Thaivisa to date.

The Scouser “technically” doesn’t know his arse from a hole in the ground. The USA has never had a problem with dual citizenship. If circumstances of birth, marriage, etc results in dual (or tri, or quad) citizenship the USA accepts the fact, although it is not necessarily liked by the security services.

What you cannot do is apply or request citizenship in another country without renouncing your US citizenship. In other words, you cannot ask for it, but if it is given you are OK. Some US officials may even tell you that you must give one up at age 21 or some other BS but they are merely repeating crap they heard from some other low ranking official. Smile, thank them for informing you, and ignore them.

And the other moron, BKK Banger, thinks it’s fine to use a made up name on a passport. Banger, I don’t think people will fall for James Bond in your case. I doubt if Austin Powers would work for you either.

This thread was pretty dumb to begin with. Use a passport that was reported lost or stolen? Sure, what could possibly be wrong with that?

[the scouser]

Rules against dual citizenship still apply to some extent to people who wish to become US citizens via naturalization. The Supreme Court chose to leave in place the requirement that new citizens must renounce their old citizenship during US naturalization. However, in practice, the State Department is no longer doing anything in the vast majority of situations where a new citizen's "old country" refuses to recognize the US renunciation.

The above is taken from the richw.org website.

Ah, vindication is sweet

Now then, Smokin, before you go off on another unsubstantiated rant, this is your arse and this is your elbow.

Scouse.

[nick]

Rules against dual citizenship still apply to some extent to people who wish to become US citizens via naturalization. The Supreme Court chose to leave in place the requirement that new citizens must renounce their old citizenship during US naturalization. However, in practice, the State Department is no longer doing anything in the vast majority of situations where a new citizen's "old country" refuses to recognize the US renunciation.

The above is taken from the richw.org website.

Ah, vindication is sweet

Now then, Smokin, before you go off on another unsubstantiated rant, this is your arse and this is your elbow.

Scouse.

I am a naturalized US citizen. THere as no requirement of renouncing my second citizenship at teh time I become as US nat. By the way, look into your US passport, whoever has one; on the page 3 there is a statement regarding dual citizens (!) situation while visiting your other country.

[Smokin Joe]

Scouser, what vindication? Your quote did not support your case at all. You're seeing something in it that isn't there.

If you are interested in US Government policy about a subject you might try a US Government website. Don't believe everything you read at www.rumuor.com.

Also someone from another country wishing to become a US citizen is a whole different situation. As with visas, the US can, and will, put different requirements on different people. Once you're a citizen though everyone has the same set of rules.

Most Americans could not pass the written test aliens must take as part of the process.

The tone of my post was a little stronger than it should have been though. I shouldn't post after imbibing. The real me comes through too much.

[alex_4000]

The passport I have now is 15 months old and already full of stamps

a few years back, germany started issuing xxl-passports with twice the number of pages they usually come with. you might wanna ask for that at the embassy as well...

[BKK_banger]

And the other moron, BKK Banger, thinks it’s fine to use a made up name on a passport. Banger, I don’t think people will fall for James Bond in your case. I doubt if Austin Powers would work for you either.

Smoking weed,

Can you not tell when someone is being serious and someone is not being serious?

What kind of person are you to call someone a moron (whom you do not know) based on one light hearted comment?

Apology?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I have had two British passports for many years.

This started at a time when I was travelling a LOT and many countries I visited had lengthy visa processing or I might need another visa whilst I was away from the office. My spare rested in my desk.

I also believe the name in your passport does not have to be the same as on your birth certificate. hence the little box on the form which says "Name as you want it to appear".

For years I fantasised about calling myself Bond, James on my passport. In reality it is much more advantageous as an ID document having it in your own name.

BKK druggy or drinker I think.

[BKK_banger]

DPP,

Your name indicates you know a lot about such matters so I will bow down before your great wisdom.

I am off to the Ollie Reed pub now, I will check in on this thread later.

Yours,

Banger

[Smokin Joe]

BKK Banger,

Can't argue with you on this one, You are correct in that I was overreacting a bit to something that I didn't stop to consider was probably tongue in cheek. Next round is on me if we ever meet up. The forum is much bettr when things are not taken too seriously. My apoligies.

[Yohan]

I thought about "losing" my passport and get a second one from my embassy (Germany).

*Losing* your passport is not the correct solution - and to re-use that lost passport again is an offence, if you fail to report it.

However to use 2 or more passports is possible and not unusual - you should contact the authority, which issued your passport you are holding now.

To get another passport and the right to use both of them requires however an explication, documentation of the reasons.....like a letter from your company with a listing of your travels...or required travels abroad, during the other passport is in an embassy for another visa-application and so on....

It is also possible to use 2 different passports with 2 different names in it, many movie-stars or other famous people, are doing so when they prefer to travel either for business or for privat reasons....

[Curious George]

I just cannot understand how some of you idiots can make claims like "The USA has never had a problem with dual citizenship", or "I am a naturalized US citizen. THere as no requirement of renouncing...". Take a look at history:

It indeed used to be the case in the US that you couldn't hold dual citizenship (except in certain cases if you had dual citizenship from birth or childhood, in which case some Supreme Court rulings -- Perkins v. Elg (1939), Mandoli v. Acheson (1952), and Kawakita v. U.S. (1952) -- permitted you to keep both).

However, most of the laws forbidding dual citizenship were struck down in 1967 by the US Supreme Court. The court's decision in this case, Afroyim v. Rusk, as well as a second case in 1980, Vance v. Terrazas, eventually made its way explicitly into the statute books in 1986; up till that time, the old laws were still on the books, but the State Department was effectively under court order to ignore them.

Rules against dual citizenship still apply to some extent to people who wish to become US citizens via naturalization. The Supreme Court chose to leave in place the requirement that new citizens must renounce their old citizenship during US naturalization. However, in practice, the State Department is no longer doing anything in the vast majority of situations where a new citizen's "old country" refuses to recognize the US renunciation.

The official US State Department policy on dual citizenship today is that the United States does not favor it as a matter of policy because of various problems they feel it may cause, but the existence of dual citizenship is recognized in individual cases. That is, if you ask them if you ought to become a dual citizen, they will recommend against doing it; but if you tell them you are a dual citizen, they'll usually say it's OK.

Now, READ the current Naturalization Oath of Allegiance here, from the US GOVERNMENT website.

[Smokin Joe]

Curious George, did you have a point to make somewhere?

Your quote supports the fact that dual citezenship is OK. Will you be happy if the wording is changed from "The USA has never had a problem with dual citizenship",

to "does not favor it as a matter of policy because of various problems they feel it may cause, but the existence of dual citizenship is recognized in individual cases."