Cultural Differences

[daizeez]

I was reading through the gay forum became quite interested in a particular thread about cultural differences. I'm curious...what are your experiences with Thai male/farang female relationships? Do you feel your man is similar to other Thai males, traditionally, culturally?

[Boo]

Mines quite traditional in his values & beliefs as, before we met, he hadn't had a lot of experience of westerners (couple of shags with a farang girl 10yrs previous ) & in fact he was the tourist to samui when we met as I had been there for several years & he had literally just arrived off the boat!

In a few things he is westernised but only because he has been with me for a few years but he accepts our differences & that he is married to a westerner so when we disagree on something we can usually work it out. I like his Thainess & hope he doesn't become too westernised now we are in the UK which he's showing no sign off yet, so fingers crossed.

It sounds really balanced & compatible now but......in the beginning, wow, what a nightmare, The first few months were ok as we were just dating & becoming friends but after living together, well, it's amazing that we managed to get this far. The different ideas & expectations as well as us both being quite stubborn meant that we had some amazing rows. I'm not entirely sure how we got through that to get here but I think it just involved us both backing down occasionally & learning not to shout (me) & learning to shout (him)

Compromise is the name of the game in any relationship but if you can keep your cool then these things can be overcome & in the end you have to be happy & respectful of your differences as thats what made you love each other in the first place.

[sbk]

It sounds really balanced & compatible now but......in the beginning, wow, what a nightmare, The first few months were ok as we were just dating & becoming friends but after living together, well, it's amazing that we managed to get this far. The different ideas & expectations as well as us both being quite stubborn meant that we had some amazing rows. I'm not entirely sure how we got through that to get here but I think it just involved us both backing down occasionally & learning not to shout (me) & learning to shout (him)

Compromise is the name of the game in any relationship but if you can keep your cool then these things can be overcome & in the end you have to be happy & respectful of your differences as thats what made you love each other in the first place.

Isn't that the truth! I have to say I agree with Boo on this one, our relationship didn't get this far without me learning how to control my temper (not that I have a particularly hot temper but compared to how most Thais deal with their anger I guess I come across as a real hothead) and him learning how to have anger! Let's face it, most guys are bad enough about dealing with their anger and talking about their feelings. Factor in cultural issues and taboos about this and it makes communication difficult.

15 years on, how did we do it? Compromise, compromise compromise. And the fact that we love each other enough to weather the storms. In any relationship there will always be times of stress and times of peace. The key is realizing that the good times make up for the troubled times. I think the divorce rate in the west is so high because people tend to go into marriage with this idea that things will be rosy forever and then become deeply disappointed when they aren't and decide the relationship doesn't work. The success of any serious relationship depends on the three C's: Commitment, the willingness to compromise and the ability to communicate.

[daizeez]

I like his Thainess & hope he doesn't become too westernised now we are in the UK

how is he adjusting? i would think most thai's would have a hard time in western society because things are so different, especially a sense of community.

The different ideas & expectations as well as us both being quite stubborn meant that we had some amazing rows

do you mind me asking what types of things were the hardest for you, or what you 2 found difficult at first?

[daizeez]

Factor in cultural issues and taboos about this and it makes communication difficult.

i've been wondering about this a lot...how to tell when you've stumbled into an area like this(taboo, for example). i worry sometimes i might do something offensive, and not even realize it.

.  The success of any serious relationship depends on the three C's: Commitment, the willingness to compromise and the ability to communicate.

well said! i'd have to agree! once one of these breaks down, things get very difficult and painful!

[Boo]

how is he adjusting? i would think most thai's would have a hard time in western society because things are so different, especially a sense of community.

Not too bad actually, he's very quiet & never spent a lot of time around other people when we were living in LOS, so he's happy in our home in the UK providing he has his guitar, computer ( he found ebay recently, bad move ) & his art supplies. He isn't working full time yet but it's only been 4 months & he joined a english class part-time & has only one thai friend (male) who arrived shortly before him who lives near us. They were very funny in the beginning while they were checking each other out & never hardly said a word to each other but both professed to liking the other but you'd never know it.

The different ideas & expectations as well as us both being quite stubborn meant that we had some amazing rows

do you mind me asking what types of things were the hardest for you, or what you 2 found difficult at first?

Our expectations of the other mainly, I was a single party girl when we met & at first never changed the going out & partying with my friends as I assumed he was this farang-thai guy who loved to party & had been around farang for a long time. He wasn't, he was (is) a quiet, stay at home guy who expected his "wife" to not drink, stay at home & depend on him for everything. Needless to say, it caused a few problems. In the end we compromised, with me only going out a couple of times a week with the girls & him coming out with us occasionally (about as interesting as watching paint dry for him i'd imagine )

He also got used to me being very independent & capable of doing everything for myself (something his previous n/e thai g/f's never had been, he was expected to take care of everything for them as soon as they started dating) & now he loves that I can do anything he can but still let him do it anyway

Communication was also a big factor cause I would be talking about something & would get very animated & he would automatically assume that I was having a go at him cause my voice was raised, it was only after a bad row that I realised it had started over nothing more than a rasied voice Also he never understood that after a row we would discuss it to clear the air & a good female thai friends of mine explained to him that this was farang style & sometimes better cause thais tend to have a falling out but then act like nothing happened afterwards but seeth inside but the farang way of clearing the air made it easier to move on, but one thing he stopped me from doing was analysing everything cause sometimes something is what it is & why worry, jai yen, sabai sabai, mai pen rai.

[sbk]

Some cultural taboos: share your food with your man, we had a big argument because I made a sandwich, was starving and he wanted some. He got very offended when I said no. So, now I just make extra on the assumption he will eat some.

Don't embarrass him in public-- don't argue with him or belittle him in front of his peers (good advice anywhere in the world frankly).

Dress politely, how you look matters and if you look like a bum, people will think he is a lowlife for hanging out with this low life farang.

Be polite to his parents, if you travel make sure to bring them little gifts (when i go home I always bring his mom some nice moisturizer. Dried fruit from the west is also popular).

If I can think of some more I will post them.

Boo, my husband found living in the US very lonely at first, but then he comes from a large extended family and has lived near his family all his life. However, once he made friends from work and did some outside stuff he had alot of fun. And Thai men are quite funny with each other, once they decide they like each other they are quite friendly but the first meeting is like two male dogs sniffing each other

[Boo]

And Thai men are quite funny with each other, once they decide they like each other they are quite friendly but the first meeting is like two male dogs sniffing each other 

This is so true sbk, it's funny to see a comparison with western guys as even if they are checking each other out at a first meeting, they still show a semblence of interest, but with these two they just ignored each other for most of the day & spoke to each other in short syllables, then after, when I asked what was the probblem, didn't they like each other?, I discovered they had arranged to meet up later that week

Don't embarrass him in public-- don't argue with him or belittle him in front of his peers (good advice anywhere in the world frankly).

Dress politely, how you look matters and if you look like a bum, people will think he is a lowlife for hanging out with this low life farang.

Be polite to his parents, if you travel make sure to bring them little gifts (when i go home I always bring his mom some nice moisturizer. Dried fruit from the west is also popular).

This is also very true, the old "face" thing is very important & I would never have a go at him in public (but then I never did this with farang b/f's either) & his family are very important & we had many discussions about how much I wanted to be involved with them & how he would balance his responsibility (financial & practical) to his mum, aunt & neices with our life together (particually when we have kids).

Apart from the family responsibility part it's not that different to farang b/f's I had though

[Axel]

This happened to a couple, both of them my good friends. Not really off topic, although it was in Japan. You can easily relate it to Thailand.

She French, unusually linguistic, spoke a fluent English in both versions, American and English/English, besides of French, of course. Worked later as an executive in a US-multination cosmetics company in charge for marketing in all Japan. Met her

Japenese boy friend, got married, moved to Tokyo, managed spoken Japanese fluency within two years, reading and writing within five.

He, son of an owner of a big company with business interests in Asia, S/Pacific as well as sales in Europe. Nice English, Western educated.

Both about same age, at that time early 30-ish.

Divorce after seven years. IMO she was not bossy, but he could not really accept her income to be higher than his. Could not accept, whenever, he heard some nasty remarks, that SHE replied. Albeit in perfect language but not in the humble way expected of a female. Whenever something went wrong and doesn't it happen every day in LoS?, she pointed it out, made him and all around losing face.

After seperation b4 divorce, he and me went often out at night. Well he was free again, and found one girl imo better than the other. (Like his father, wherever we went heard 'your father was here last night'.)

Finally, he introduced a girl, I could not make much of. He told me, 'you are right to think what I think you think (Good Engrish?) But she is from my home town, today first time in Tokyo, and probably last time. She will take care of my house, stay home and take care my children. I stay in Tokyo and btw, since divorce is coming, my father promoted me and I am going to take over the business one day.

Well somehow both did not manage to overcome the cultural differences, he went back to his local cocoon, she left and got married with an European.

Sometimes difficult to adjust I say.

[kitty]

My opinion is quite different. I was seeing a thai guy for 2 months out of my 3 month stay, he was angry all the time, was violent(not to me) and was just like,if not worse, the typical lads back in england. He really hurt me and cheated on me lots..oh well ah...he's definatly westerised

[arwyen]

Sbk and Boo...

Are you expected to cook and clean...and take care of the 'womanly duties'? ::

[sbk]

I am a firm believer in division of labor. I am willing to do his laundry, he has to take care of the dead smelly stuff the dogs bring back. I am willing to cook his food, he has to fix the car. That said, my husband is perfectly capable of cooking and cleaning and has done so in the past.

Interestingly enough, his father washes his own clothes and his mother helps out with the hard work of coconuts etc. So he doesn't really come from a "traditional" home in that sense. Work is work and needs to be done. Doesn't matter if it's "womens work" or "mens work" it's just work.

[Darknight]

I'm not entirely sure how we got through that to get here but I think it just involved us both backing down occasionally & learning not to shout (me) & learning to shout (him) 

exactly the same as in my farang male - thai woman relationship

you just have to change the (him) in to (her)

[kat]

It's helpful to read about positive experiences such as Boo and SBK's, but my experiences have not been positive. And I can't just limit them to Thai men, but S.E Asian men in general.

After dating several S.E. Asian men, either the sex is awful (" .... don't move, don't move ... "), they do not kiss, and my idea of warmth and intimacy is just not a concept with most of them (for example, staying around even if you are not going to have sex that evening). For the one that I dated that was actually decent in bed (thai guy), I found out that he was lying to me about basic facts regarding his identity (having a child, and having been married), when he didn't have to lie, and even after I repeatedly told him he didn't have to lie.

I am also not one to sit quietly in a group of all his friends like a mute object that is there for the sole purpose of reflecting positively on his "face". Now I am in Malaysia, and while initially I thought the young urban guys in Kuala Lumpur seemed like the most modern types similar to other western cities, I am waiting for the shoe to drop, so to speak. I already have a glimpse of it coming.

If it doesn't work out here for me, I don't think my social life has much of a chance in Asia.

[Boo]

I am also not one to sit quietly in a group of all his friends like a mute object that is there for the sole purpose of reflecting positively on his "face".

Why assume that you have to do this anyway, I don't & none of my freinds with thai guys do either, in fact if anything it tends to be the other way around as western women are a lot more gregarious than thai men.

Where does this assumption come from that a western women with a thai guy act (or have to act) like a traditional thai girl? My view is if my husband wanted a traditional thai wife he would have married one instead of an english women who does what she pleases.

Compromising isn't about losing who you are, it's about considering other poeple feelings & ideas, but it works both ways.

Edited August 18, 2004 by Boo

[kitty]

kat: thats my main problem with "some" thai men, they lie

i seriously cannot stand liars and even after telling him i dont mind as loong as tell truth he still lied.

even now he's lying to me even though i know for a fact he has a girlfriend he denies it and says they just friends(even though he asked a close mate of mine"will u tell kitty")

i dont care if he has a new girl just hate the lies.

i dont think all thai men are like this at all,just the "boys" at main tourist areas.

[kat]

I am also not one to sit quietly in a group of all his friends like a mute object that is there for the sole purpose of reflecting positively on his "face".

Why assume that you have to do this anyway, I don't & none of my freinds with thai guys do either, in fact if anything it tends to be the other way around as western women are a lot more gregarious than thai men.

Where does this assumption come from that a western women with a thai guy act (or have to act) like a traditional thai girl? My view is if my husband wanted a traditional thai wife he would have married one instead of an english women who does what she pleases.

Compromising isn't about losing who you are, it's about considering other poeple feelings & ideas, but it works both ways.

My statement isn't an assumption but comes directly from my experince of dating a Thai man. Granted, everyone is different, and I'm sure there are Thai men who are not like this, but there are most definitely different cultural expectations that come into play. And also, the Thai men who seem cool and who have expressed interest, suddenly become very shy or withdrawn once that interest seems like a viable possibility.

I also dated several S.E. Asian men over the past two years, and while most did not treat me like a mute object in front of their friends, there was always something or several things that were a throwback to another era, i.e. an era in which I was not born.

[bina]

they do not kiss, and my idea of warmth and intimacy is just not a concept with most of them

definitions of warmth and affection are according to cultures;

thai men (ones from country maybe city is different) sniff/kiss ('hoom'); i like it its cute.... they snuffle you with their nose; its the way mothers kiss their kids also.... thai do not like PDA (pub. dispays of affection) maybe city types are different.

warmth and affection: a woman can bring a glass of water to the guy if he's working hard and he will see it as affection and concern; food, for (country) thai people, is a way to show love, they shove food in kids' mouths, my friend was always looking for fruits that he knows i like to eat, and always made sure i had coffee in the morning even though they dont keep it in the house;

money is also love for many thai especially when the money is hard earned.

my friends here send money home, no gifts, no birthday presents, etc.... family warmth is very important but doesnt mean physical warmth neccessarily; 'op oun' (warmth/affection) the way someone looks at you while you are eating; the way someone tries to make you laugh if you seem quiet or down (mai sanook)... thai dont like sour faces so will go to great lenghts to make a person laugh if they feel the person is sad or upset, but will not ask what the problem is and wont commiserate as much as we are used to. whenever i sigh and moan and expect sympathy from friends when i do particularly hard physical work, i then remember that for most of them (issan rice farmers), hard physical labour is par for the course and both women and men do it every day.

a friend here called home to his wife, she was angry with him as he had not phoned for a month so closed her phone. he sat and moaned that he was no longer married and all his friends sat with him all night long talking and joking with him so that he wouldnt be sad and sleepless all night long, alone.

the men i work with have not seen their wives and children for many years, yet every night they talk and tell me about them, they look at the one or two pics they have of them, they cry when drunk and 'kit tung'... and so, im sure do their wives, but the money is what is needed and this is the true meanig of love for them; working to give money for a better life.... not seeing their partner every day, hugging and kissing (who has energy after hard day of work), or whatever....

i have a thai boyfriend who is an immigrant worker in the states. when he calls, he tells me he misses me but he is happy that i am still on the kibbutz as i have a roof over my head, food, school for my kids, medical etc... and he is not worried about mly welfare as i am 'safe'and life is not hard as far as material things...

as far as sex; well, slowly slowly ... its true the guys i speak with say that it is quite bang bang thank you ma'am, but they dont know anything else as their parents chose their wives for the most part and well, my friend also didnt know much but time and patience....