taxexile Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 what sort of suspension modifications can be fitted to the rear suspension of toyotas and other pick ups to make them safer regarding these rollovers whilst cornering or taking avoiding action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Dude Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 what sort of suspension modifications can be fitted to the rear suspension of toyotas and other pick ups to make them safer regarding these rollovers whilst cornering or taking avoiding action? Hi A very sensible question Taxexile, I'm suprised one of our sexperts has'nt answered it yet, so I'll pose another Is anyone aware of any reaction from Toyota Thailand about this bad roadtest and what are they going to do about it ? Regards DAVE (possible future Vigo owner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Nothing from them. They are denying it, based on the email I got from them (posted here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plus Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Question is - do they deny it when Toyota Sweden emails them? It's not unusual for the company to deny everything until there's official policy in place, and you won't have it until guys who designed the trucks give them definite solutions, which will take months, I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 I don´t know. I saw video a day after I bought the truck. However, I do not drive that fast to duplicate the tip shown. I did a curve at 60 (empty road) and fully prepared to turn the wheel, and it did not do a two wheeler. So, after calling myself a stupid ·($/·/" idiot, I satisfied my crazy self that the Prerunner will not tip at that speed. At 61kmph I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 what sort of suspension modifications can be fitted to the rear suspension of toyotas and other pick ups to make them safer regarding these rollovers whilst cornering or taking avoiding action? It's not as simple as that....BUT - your can get coil spring conversions ...BUT this then puts the veehicle in a different tax bracket (road tax). One of the reasons for the popularity of Pickups over here is they have allsorts of tax breaks - the govt actually encourages the building a sales of them. The Fortuner has a odified rear suspension that still is accepted under govt regs (apparently) so take a look at the back underneath...you'll see coil springs. BUT..... Twhatever you do you still have a high COG, chassis based vehicle with primitive running gear and no EPS..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I don´t know. I saw video a day after I bought the truck. However, I do not drive that fast to duplicate the tip shown. I did a curve at 60 (empty road) and fully prepared to turn the wheel, and it did not do a two wheeler. So, after calling myself a stupid ·($/·/" idiot, I satisfied my crazy self that the Prerunner will not tip at that speed. At 61kmph I have no idea. the test is to simulate an UNEXPECTED swerve....do you seriously think you will never go above 60 km? The sort of maneuver is the kind you get avoiding a dog on the motorway - this is usually an involuntary swerve that happens BEFORE your conscious brain can decide that the dog must die. A sudden twitch like this in a high COG vehicle with EPS can tip you over (your ABS won't work when the car is travelling along on its side!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Sometimes I'm amused at the guys who think their pickup trucks handle well. They DON'T, any of them. I'm not an automotive engineer so I have no idea why but there is simply no comparison with a car especially on rough roads. The car sticks to the road and the truck dances all over that same road. My Nissan pickup handles as well as any truck but the difference between it and my Ford Focus Ghia is HUGE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 True, I hope I never find out the hard way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaysfeld Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 Links to other forums where the test has been taken up: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog...the-moose-test/ http://www.wikio.com/leisure/cars/toyota/toyota_hilux http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/viewto...6a1e2fc611dd955 http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread....961&page=81 Video on YouTube from the main Swedish national TV channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZF8N9NItHI Have anybode seen this mentioned in other English speaking media? Has it been mentioned in any Thai media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 what sort of suspension modifications can be fitted to the rear suspension of toyotas and other pick ups to make them safer regarding these rollovers whilst cornering or taking avoiding action? It's not as simple as that....BUT - your can get coil spring conversions ...BUT this then puts the veehicle in a different tax bracket (road tax). One of the reasons for the popularity of Pickups over here is they have allsorts of tax breaks - the govt actually encourages the building a sales of them. The Fortuner has a odified rear suspension that still is accepted under govt regs (apparently) so take a look at the back underneath...you'll see coil springs. BUT..... Twhatever you do you still have a high COG, chassis based vehicle with primitive running gear and no EPS..... i have seen pickups fitted with some kind of metal bar that runs between the rear wheels , it is at a slight diagonal angle , as if it runs from the lower part of the brake drum on the left rear wheel to the top part of the brake drum on the right rear wheel ,( i know its not attached to the brake drums , but thats the kind of angle it is at.) what are those bars and what do they do ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Dude Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 [what are those bars and what do they do ?? Hi Taxexile I'm no expert but have had a few goes at off-roading in the UK many, many years ago (LandRovers) and I seem to remember that items you are describing. They are act the same way as shock absorbers (pistons) but attach to the axle and chassis/bodywork and stop body roll. You see them on all those crazy Monster trucks. I have found Thai firms who convert pickups by replacing the rear drums with disc's, but have failed to find a professional company who can improve the standard suspension set up on the Vigo. What a good marketing opportunity for them. My local Toyota dealer cannot (or doesn't understand) convert a Vigo to have the type of suspension fitted to the Fortuner Smart (TRD Toyota Racing Developments) and I've now given up trying. I am due to pay Toyota a large deposit next week in order for them to prepare/provide a 4x4 4 door Auto on 7th Jan. I am, however having last minute thoughts about paying 920k to improve many things on the Vigo that come as standard on the new D Max LS GT model (as displayed in the recent Bangkok Motor Expo) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 (edited) with a vehicle that has been raised all the suspension geometry is changed and you get unwanted and more pronounced lateral movement between body/chassis and the running gear so any form of bar or shock absorber should help to reduce this. however the vehicle's CoG has been raised and this brings all sorts of new problems - vis-a-vis the moose test! CoG apart look at the rear suspension on SUVs such as Honda CRV and the Landrover Freeloder and the Mazda/Ford equivalent - totally different set-up independent and coil springs - even the ancient Landrover "Truck" now has coil springs all round Edited December 13, 2007 by wilko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I bought the Prerunner a couple of days ago. Powerful machine, but top heavy. I can see how the test vehicle would do a two wheeler at a high rate of speed. But I do not speed, particularly on curves. the only person you are kidding is yourself...the point of the "moose test" is it mirrors an UNEXPECTED occurrence........this happened to me on a pretty much empty highway when I had to avoid a roo that appeared from about 12 feet outside my field of vision. In Thailand it's dogs elephants etc...you can't predict what will happen and even if common sense tells you it's OK to run the dog down you will have swerved as a pure reflex action BEFORE you realise this....the result - the moose test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 [what are those bars and what do they do ?? Hi Taxexile I'm no expert but have had a few goes at off-roading in the UK many, many years ago (LandRovers) and I seem to remember that items you are describing. They are act the same way as shock absorbers (pistons) but attach to the axle and chassis/bodywork and stop body roll. You see them on all those crazy Monster trucks. I have found Thai firms who convert pickups by replacing the rear drums with disc's, but have failed to find a professional company who can improve the standard suspension set up on the Vigo. What a good marketing opportunity for them. My local Toyota dealer cannot (or doesn't understand) convert a Vigo to have the type of suspension fitted to the Fortuner Smart (TRD Toyota Racing Developments) and I've now given up trying. I am due to pay Toyota a large deposit next week in order for them to prepare/provide a 4x4 4 door Auto on 7th Jan. I am, however having last minute thoughts about paying 920k to improve many things on the Vigo that come as standard on the new D Max LS GT model (as displayed in the recent Bangkok Motor Expo) Dave As I mentioned earl;ier there is a coil spring conversion...this will improve handling and make the ride a whole lot more comfortable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Dude Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 [what are those bars and what do they do ?? Hi Taxexile I'm no expert but have had a few goes at off-roading in the UK many, many years ago (LandRovers) and I seem to remember that items you are describing. They are act the same way as shock absorbers (pistons) but attach to the axle and chassis/bodywork and stop body roll. You see them on all those crazy Monster trucks. I have found Thai firms who convert pickups by replacing the rear drums with disc's, but have failed to find a professional company who can improve the standard suspension set up on the Vigo. What a good marketing opportunity for them. My local Toyota dealer cannot (or doesn't understand) convert a Vigo to have the type of suspension fitted to the Fortuner Smart (TRD Toyota Racing Developments) and I've now given up trying. I am due to pay Toyota a large deposit next week in order for them to prepare/provide a 4x4 4 door Auto on 7th Jan. I am, however having last minute thoughts about paying 920k to improve many things on the Vigo that come as standard on the new D Max LS GT model (as displayed in the recent Bangkok Motor Expo) Dave As I mentioned earl;ier there is a coil spring conversion...this will improve handling and make the ride a whole lot more comfortable... Hi wilco Thanks for the info, but Toyota lost my purchase to Izusu. I am very pleased with my new car and it has many additional items standard which are not found on a Vigo, plus the ride is IMO very stable. All this for LESS money !! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipm Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 if your looking for brakes u can go for RUNSTOP they provide a decent standard on brakes conversion, for the front and rear. the rear drumb will be replaced by generally a 320mm rotor and a single piston brake caliper if not 2 pistoned. as for suspensions, u should seriously pick up some of those B60 truck modifing mags...like 4x4 special and all that...ulll fine alot of suspensions systems for vigos and the like. personally i like amada extream. i have seen a vigo with dual shocks, twin leaf, and the shock that cross both axels sides of the body work and all that. it looked INSANE>>>>check them out.... they have got subtanks with them to. adding more precision, comfort and also increase handling, ofroading capabilities to a much higher level. i also suggest looking into the twin arms brackets....great for jumps and stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Dude Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 if your looking for brakes u can go for RUNSTOP they provide a decent standard on brakes conversion, for the front and rear. the rear drumb will be replaced by generally a 320mm rotor and a single piston brake caliper if not 2 pistoned.as for suspensions, u should seriously pick up some of those B60 truck modifing mags...like 4x4 special and all that...ulll fine alot of suspensions systems for vigos and the like. personally i like amada extream. i have seen a vigo with dual shocks, twin leaf, and the shock that cross both axels sides of the body work and all that. it looked INSANE>>>>check them out.... they have got subtanks with them to. adding more precision, comfort and also increase handling, ofroading capabilities to a much higher level. i also suggest looking into the twin arms brackets....great for jumps and stability. If you need to change a truck that much, Why not buy a different model, in the first place !!!! (most people are not serious off-roaders in these SUV's) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 [what are those bars and what do they do ?? Hi Taxexile I'm no expert but have had a few goes at off-roading in the UK many, many years ago (LandRovers) and I seem to remember that items you are describing. They are act the same way as shock absorbers (pistons) but attach to the axle and chassis/bodywork and stop body roll. You see them on all those crazy Monster trucks. I have found Thai firms who convert pickups by replacing the rear drums with disc's, but have failed to find a professional company who can improve the standard suspension set up on the Vigo. What a good marketing opportunity for them. My local Toyota dealer cannot (or doesn't understand) convert a Vigo to have the type of suspension fitted to the Fortuner Smart (TRD Toyota Racing Developments) and I've now given up trying. I am due to pay Toyota a large deposit next week in order for them to prepare/provide a 4x4 4 door Auto on 7th Jan. I am, however having last minute thoughts about paying 920k to improve many things on the Vigo that come as standard on the new D Max LS GT model (as displayed in the recent Bangkok Motor Expo) Dave As I mentioned earl;ier there is a coil spring conversion...this will improve handling and make the ride a whole lot more comfortable... Hi wilco Thanks for the info, but Toyota lost my purchase to Izusu. I am very pleased with my new car and it has many additional items standard which are not found on a Vigo, plus the ride is IMO very stable. All this for LESS money !! Dave Not to worry I think they are all much of a muchness in the long run....the coil spring conversion is not a Toyota thing it is available for all pick-ups b ut changes the tax rating on the vehicle(???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 It does? Changes the tax? Strange.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsurin Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Would the anti-sway-system in Jareddriving's post further down this page help with stopping the Toyota from rolling over? If so, for the sake of 6000baht or so, I think it's well worth fitting. John..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipm Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 u can fit the brakes and suspension set up for both totaling around 40,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 It does? Changes the tax? Strange.. to qualify for the lower tax rates your vehicle must qualify as a "pick-up" - this definition according to the govt I believe stipulates that amongst other things the vehicle must have a rigid back axle and leaf springs. Tax examples...a 2 dr pickup is about 800 baht per year, a 4 door is 6400 p.a., and an old Discovery is about 10k. The Fortuner seems to have got round the regs regarding the rear axle....of course all this helps to maintain a c heap home market for the home produced pickup manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Ok, but if I change the springs and axle, I promise not to tell the folks at the local car registration offid. I am stuck with the 6k a year, as my Prerunner is the 4dr type. I did not know that the 2dr was only 800B a year. What a ripoff... Tks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaysfeld Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 Euro NCAP reveal mortality dangerous pickup according to the Danish Motorist organisation FDM. Nissan Navara is a catastrof with the lowest resulsts i Euro NCAPs history. http://www.fdm.dk/public/nyheder/biler/Sik...tre+pickups.htm http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-Articl...in-new-cat.aspx http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7264155.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdman Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Euro NCAP reveal mortality dangerous pickup according to the Danish Motorist organisation FDM. Nissan Navara is a catastrof with the lowest resulsts i Euro NCAPs history. http://www.fdm.dk/public/nyheder/biler/Sik...tre+pickups.htm http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-Articl...in-new-cat.aspx http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7264155.stm Is the tested D-Max/Rodeo the same model like the LS GT in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddiving Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Euro NCAP reveal mortality dangerous pickup according to the Danish Motorist organisation FDM. Nissan Navara is a catastrof with the lowest resulsts i Euro NCAPs history. http://www.fdm.dk/public/nyheder/biler/Sik...tre+pickups.htm http://www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-Articl...in-new-cat.aspx http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7264155.stm Is the tested D-Max/Rodeo the same model like the LS GT in Thailand? Yes, but with more safety features Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaysfeld Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 Euro NCAP’s test of Nissan Navara, Mitsubishi L200 and the Isuzu D-MAX/Rodeo. Both the Nissan Navara and the Isuzu D-MAX/Rodeo received poor scores in Euro NCAP’s adult occupant rating. The Navara achieved an extremely poor rating of a one star strikethrough. Isuzu D-MAX/Rodeo also received a disappointing two star strikethrough rating in adult occupant protection with an unacceptably high risk of life-threatening injury to the chest region. The best of all the pick-ups tested by Euro NCAP was the Mitsubishi L200, which received a respectable four star result in adult occupant protection. All the vehicles received disappointing child and pedestrian protection scores. Nissan Navara NCAP front impact test. 1 point http://www.euroncap.com/tests/nissan_navara/317.aspx The Navara's passenger compartment became unstable in the impact and would have been unable to withstand greater loading. The chassis rail collapsed on the impacted side, allowing a significant level of intrusion into the driver's footwell. As a result, the dummy readings indicated a high risk of injury to the left tibia. In addition, the accelerator pedal moved rearwards more than 200mm, presenting a further risk of injury to the driver's lower legs. Structures in the dashboard presented a hazard to the knees and femurs of both the driver and the passenger. Protection of the driver's chest was rated as weak owing to the extent to which the chest was compressed, combined with the threat posed by the unstable passenger compartment. The passenger's neck was bent rearwards in the impact, presenting a high risk of life-threatening injury. The airbags and seatbelt pretensioners were triggered late in the impact and readings from the driver dummy's head also indicated a high risk of life threatening injury. The Navara has been awarded a one star rating as its performance in frontal impact did not reach the minimum level required for a higher rating. Moreover, the unacceptably high risk of life threatening injury to the driver's head and the passenger's neck have led to that star being struck through. Nissan have already introduced a counter-measure to overcome the delayed deployment of the frontal airbags. The change has already been introduced in production cars and Nissan will contact owners to advise them to get their cars upgraded at their dealers. Euro NCAP will assess the modified car in the near future. Isuzu D-MAX/Rodeo NCAP front impact test. 2 points http://www.euroncap.com/tests/isuzu_dmax_rodeo/316.aspx The passenger compartment became unstable in the frontal impact and the D-MAX did not achieve the minimum number of points in this test to get a three star rating, even though it scored enough points overall. Protection of the driver's head was rated as weak. The final star is struck through because dummy readings in the neck and chest indicated an unacceptably high risk of life-threatening injury. Structures in the dashboard presented a risk of injury to the knees and femurs of both the driver and passenger. Protection of the driver's lower legs was jeopardised by excessive upward movement of the brake pedal. Protection of the driver's feet was poor, owing to a ruptured footwell and pedal movement. Mitsubishi L200 NCAP front impact test. 9 points http://www.euroncap.com/tests/mitsubishi_l200/314.aspx Protection of the driver's chest was rated as weak owing to the extent to which the dummy's chest was compressed in the test. The driver's footwell ruptured but the passenger compartment remained stable during the impact. Structures in the dashboard presented a risk of injury to the knees and femurs of the driver and passenger. BMW X3 NCAP front impact test. 12 points http://www.euroncap.com/tests/bmw_x3/311.aspx The passenger compartment remained stable in the frontal test. Structures in the dashboard presented a risk of injury to the knees and femurs of the driver and passenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Dude Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Euro NCAP’s test of Nissan Navara, Mitsubishi L200 and the Isuzu D-MAX/Rodeo.Both the Nissan Navara and the Isuzu D-MAX/Rodeo received poor scores in Euro NCAP’s adult occupant rating. The Navara achieved an extremely poor rating of a one star strikethrough. Isuzu D-MAX/Rodeo also received a disappointing two star strikethrough rating in adult occupant protection with an unacceptably high risk of life-threatening injury to the chest region. The best of all the pick-ups tested by Euro NCAP was the Mitsubishi L200, which received a respectable four star result in adult occupant protection. All the vehicles received disappointing child and pedestrian protection scores. Nissan Navara NCAP front impact test. 1 point http://www.euroncap.com/tests/nissan_navara/317.aspx The Navara's passenger compartment became unstable in the impact and would have been unable to withstand greater loading. The chassis rail collapsed on the impacted side, allowing a significant level of intrusion into the driver's footwell. As a result, the dummy readings indicated a high risk of injury to the left tibia. In addition, the accelerator pedal moved rearwards more than 200mm, presenting a further risk of injury to the driver's lower legs. Structures in the dashboard presented a hazard to the knees and femurs of both the driver and the passenger. Protection of the driver's chest was rated as weak owing to the extent to which the chest was compressed, combined with the threat posed by the unstable passenger compartment. The passenger's neck was bent rearwards in the impact, presenting a high risk of life-threatening injury. The airbags and seatbelt pretensioners were triggered late in the impact and readings from the driver dummy's head also indicated a high risk of life threatening injury. The Navara has been awarded a one star rating as its performance in frontal impact did not reach the minimum level required for a higher rating. Moreover, the unacceptably high risk of life threatening injury to the driver's head and the passenger's neck have led to that star being struck through. Nissan have already introduced a counter-measure to overcome the delayed deployment of the frontal airbags. The change has already been introduced in production cars and Nissan will contact owners to advise them to get their cars upgraded at their dealers. Euro NCAP will assess the modified car in the near future. Isuzu D-MAX/Rodeo NCAP front impact test. 2 points http://www.euroncap.com/tests/isuzu_dmax_rodeo/316.aspx The passenger compartment became unstable in the frontal impact and the D-MAX did not achieve the minimum number of points in this test to get a three star rating, even though it scored enough points overall. Protection of the driver's head was rated as weak. The final star is struck through because dummy readings in the neck and chest indicated an unacceptably high risk of life-threatening injury. Structures in the dashboard presented a risk of injury to the knees and femurs of both the driver and passenger. Protection of the driver's lower legs was jeopardised by excessive upward movement of the brake pedal. Protection of the driver's feet was poor, owing to a ruptured footwell and pedal movement. Mitsubishi L200 NCAP front impact test. 9 points http://www.euroncap.com/tests/mitsubishi_l200/314.aspx Protection of the driver's chest was rated as weak owing to the extent to which the dummy's chest was compressed in the test. The driver's footwell ruptured but the passenger compartment remained stable during the impact. Structures in the dashboard presented a risk of injury to the knees and femurs of the driver and passenger. BMW X3 NCAP front impact test. 12 points http://www.euroncap.com/tests/bmw_x3/311.aspx The passenger compartment remained stable in the frontal test. Structures in the dashboard presented a risk of injury to the knees and femurs of the driver and passenger. Hi Keyfield Thank you for the imformative post Prehaps that will stop the 'handbags at dawn' bickering between truck owners here ! I DONT THINK SO According to the above they all seem crap in variety of ways It would be interesting to re-do the test with Bull Bars cos I understand they SERIOUSLY DISRUPT THE AIR BAG DEPLOYMENT!!!! Dave (happy DMax owner without bull-bars) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnyd Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 (edited) For all the Top Gear fans Jeremy Clarkson on the Toyota Hilux Part 2 Of course I am a bit biased. My first car was a Toyota Hilux Edited February 29, 2008 by gunnyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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