French Man Gouged, Injured By Elephant In Rayong

[ThaidleHands]

seems almost pointless to write something here as everyone is being silly but... it's a very difficult subject in Thailand about the elephants being led around the streets for money.

No, it isn't. An Asian elephant simply isn't evolved to walk on hard surfaces. Neither are humans, but we're not carrying a bulk that's virtually more than our legs can bear (read up on the Square-Cube Law). An elephant which is compelled to walk on hard streets many hours every day will develop crippling foot, knee and hip injuries that cause them great pain and shorten their lives.

[mikethevigoman]

Hey this isn't funny so please stop ridiculing this poor man. You all think elephants are these peaceful giants, WRONG!

I was once attacked by one, thank god it was chained securely. My colleague's uncle was killed by one. Ask around and I'm sure you'll hear more stories regarding the true nature of these giant beasts.

Hopefully this will make you think twice before buying sugar cane for it and assuming this act makes the animal your best friend.

Yes and my jack russell killed a german sheppard, he got stuck in the sheppards throat !

[mikethevigoman]

Feeding Elephants, Petting Tigers, Snake Shows, Alligators Farms...all should be avoided.

Snakes are lovely pets !

[TAWP]

To be honest, I would gore any Frenchman that touched my ivory too, no matter if he gave me money and/or a sugarcane.

Racist?

I'm not sure what kind of sexual perversion you have, but we are not all the same.

[sniffdog]

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there was a documentary on Discovery channel last month reporting on a surge in attacks on humans by elephants over the last 10 years or so.. I didn't catch it all.

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Probably the result of global warming ......

[MrSquigle]

To be honest, I would gore any Frenchman that touched my ivory too, no matter if he gave me money and/or a sugarcane.

Racist?

I'm not sure what kind of sexual perversion you have, but we are not all the same.

You mean you think the elephant leaned to the left a little ??

[Johpa]

You are right!

And also, You all think human beings are these peaceful animals, WRONG!

I was once attacked by one, thank god he was stopped by the security. My colleague's uncle was killed by one. Ask around and I'm sure you'll hear more stories regarding the true nature of these animals.

Hopefully this will make you think twice before buying drinks for them and assuming this act makes the animal your best friend.

Having once owned an elephant for nearly 20 years, I have found most of the elephants I have encountered to me very peaceful. That being said, I also have found them to be very intelligent and have quite the range of personalities ranging from laid back to petulant to occasionally down right ornery. The first rule of hanging out with elephants is that you keep some distance if you do not know the particular pachyderm, especially males. One should always consult the mahout (kwan chaang) regarding personality before approaching closely.

There is usually one tourist death each year due to really stupid tourist behavior. I remember one tourist being killed by a close friend's elephant after trying to pull out a hair from the tail. The elephant, a really mellow guy, felt some pain and kicked backwards with no intent to kill. But for some sad reason some tourists seem to discount the immense size of these beings.

So your implication that the "true nature" of these animals is violent or evil is way off base. But you are spot on when you note that one should not make an assumption that these wonderful animals are automatically going to become your best friend at first sight.

[seonai]

Johpa what's your take on why this particular accident happened - I'm curious about the touching the tusks thing

[bina]

i have to say that i also (and i work with animals ) made a female mother elephant very very angry unintentionally. i was visiting the larger zoo who's female thai elephant tamara had given birth, we approached her (she was in her yard with an 'auntie' and her baby and we were outside her yard doors) and were warned off by her mahouts. however, as we turned around to walk out of the hallway area, i inadvertantly came too close to the bars of her yard. had the mahout not been next to her and i had not caught her body language and jumped away quickly, she could have and would have just pushed on the doors -- very thick steel round bars- and squashed me. as it was, she was making low grumblings in her throat and she and the auntie put their trunks in from of gabi the baby and stepped forward. scary was not the word.

this last year, at korat zoo, i was very strongly smacked on the arm by an irritated baby elephant after giving it one bunch of sugar cane and staying near by but with no more food in my hand. being an animal handler, sometimes i can do stupid things also.

a few months ago, yossi the elephant in the safari ramat gan went psycho and killed his favorite female. no one knows why. an elephant behaviorist from germany was brought in to check him out for blood imbalances, illness, depression, stress or any other reason. no reason that any human could figure out as to why yossi went postal. for both people and animals, sometimes a small thing can trigger a big reaction.

since i work with animals and tourists i can safely say that a majority of touristy types just do stupid things. i wont pet a dog w/o asking its owner if i can touch it on the head or better on the side/flank. the same with a horse, donkey or even a billy buck, never mind an elephant. but stupidity reigns the day. if there is a language barrier than i try the 'show me where ok>' using my hands w/o touching the animal.

oh well.

johpa i envy u although donkeys are plenty big for me.

bina

[seonai]

anyone understand the tusk thing ?

[MrSquigle]

Maybe same as a sensitive tooth, sensitive nerve endings etc. I have heard of this before.

[bina]

the tusk itself isnt sensitive its the action of putting a hand near to a part of an animal that the animal is senstive about for whatever reason: in some animals, for instance, a male sheep or male goat, petting the animal on the forehead invites getting rammed since this same touching is what an other male would do to instigate a fight (two male sheep or bucks head on with their horns).

certain movements and touching on some large parrots instigates a male mating instinct even towards u the handler; iguanas see certain movements or touches as fighting instigation (agression); smiling at certain monkeys is interpreted as aggression/dominance;

it could also be a 'head shy' type thing. anyone that has worked with animals that have been beaten on the head , a raised hand can cause either ducking and cringing and submission or the opposite, fear of being beaten or hit and aggressing towards the 'aggressor'.

we had a donkey that would charge baring his teeth if someone would lift a hand near his (the donkey's ) face.

the more intelligent the animal, the more complex the action/reaction scenario

bina

[kmart]

anyone understand the tusk thing ?

Fairly average Fleetwood Mac album, imo.

Also still in demand from gullible, under-endowed Chinese blokes, who think that elephant tusks; rhino horns; sharks' fins, etc, imbue their little 2" cocks with legendary sexual prowess and fertility.

[Johpa]

Johpa what's your take on why this particular accident happened - I'm curious about the touching the tusks thing

I can't speak for any elephant, but I might suppose that male elephants are acutely aware than the human species has an interest in the tusks and are willing to go cause extreme discomfort to the animal in attempts to remove the tusks for the sake of personal profit. Or maybe the animal simply had sensitive tusks just as some of us have sensitive teeth. One of the expenses of owning a male is providing security from ivory robbers. But I can't imagine introducing myself to any new animal (dog, cat, horse, or elephant) by grabbing a body part.

But the French are notorious for not making efforts to understand a foreigner's less than perfect attempts at the French language, and in this story, the man clearly was not going to let a little misunderstanding between him and some Thai yelling at him not to touch the tusks to get in his way.

As for fleeing the scene, any poor Thai knows he is better off fleeing the scene and then seeking the interdiction of a phu yai on his behalf first rather than to immediately become involved with the men in brown. This act may be perceived as an anathema to many foreigners here, but it makes perfect and logical sense from a Thai perspective.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Johpa

[Tony Clifton]

anyone understand the tusk thing ?

Fairly average Fleetwood Mac album, imo.

Also still in demand from gullible, under-endowed Chinese blokes, who think that elephant tusks; rhino horns; sharks' fins, etc, imbue their little 2" cocks with legendary sexual prowess and fertility.

Small tools maybe but they sure seem to know how to use them.

China Population : 1,321,851,888 (July 2007 est.)

[Ski_Goong]

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there was a documentary on Discovery channel last month reporting on a surge in attacks on humans by elephants over the last 10 years or so.. I didn't catch it all.

==================================================================

Probably the result of global warming ......

I think its the result of using Gasohol.

Ski

[kmart]

anyone understand the tusk thing ?

Fairly average Fleetwood Mac album, imo.

Also still in demand from gullible, under-endowed Chinese blokes, who think that elephant tusks; rhino horns; sharks' fins, etc, imbue their little 2" cocks with legendary sexual prowess and fertility.

Small tools maybe but they sure seem to know how to use them.

China Population : 1,321,851,888 (July 2007 est.)

They aren't exactly "endangered" are they?

Sharks are these days, though.

[MrSquigle]

If you only had 2 inches, would'nt you try whatever you could get your hands on to make it grow..

[TAWP]

Best way to make it look bigger: get a new girl with smaller hands...

[gburns57au]

the tusk is a rigid part of the elephant and grabbing it will make the elephant feel he is being restrained....he can only use his trunk or shake his head to free himself. Same as a goat, buffalo or ram will shake their heads if you grab the by the horns on their heads. This is why he was warned not to do it.

I have no trouble approaching them, but if they display threatening behaviour then I back away. Treat them with respect...they are much to big to argue with.

I have read about "must" but never seen it. from what I have read the mahouts up north used to give them opium wrapped in a sweet to keep them calm...It is only males who get "must" and they can become very unpredictable at this time...it only lasts a week or so and then the elephant is fine again. The Thais used to believe it was the spirit of an unsettled dead person that caused it to happen.

Most deaths between farangs and elephants come about because of stupidity or ignorance on the farangs behalf....the girl at Nong Nooch who teased the elephant by offering bananas and then pulling them away for instance. Yeah big joke till the bigger elephant got pissed off.

I love animals and was patting some buffaloes in a village once and giving them bananas...I was patting one and the locals went beserk....yelling at me and make gouging motions...apparently this one buffalo had already gouged some people...It is so true that animals can sense if a person is bad or good intentioned.

[Johpa]

...It is so true that animals can sense if a person is bad or good intentioned.

Yes, I am certain that Roy Horn will be happy to testify to that pipe dream.

[bina]

grabbing a goat by the horns and an ear, especially if they are the long eared breeds is the best way to handle a pissed off goat; patting a billy goat on his head is the best way to get him riled up; trust me, i've been zonked by p.o. rams and bucks more than once and i've been working with them for 8+ years.... grabbing a goat by her or his horns can also break the horn and then u have a geyser of blood... and a pissed off goat....and a vet bill... and i cant tell u how many people just luvvvvvv to pet our goats on their foreheads to see the buck or our nannies 'push' back, until the buck reallyyyy pushes back.... i know someone whose eye was gouged out by a buck, and someone who'se bowels were gouged out by a pissed off boer buck...

animals do not know 'trash' from 'non trash', they just choose whom they like or dislike...regardless of where you stand in human society (herd flock group school)

jopah i have to agree with u about your french comments...

my rule: no petting w/o asking where and if possible... i really hate when people touch my animals while i'm working with one: u know, stand right behind the donkey while i'm cleaning her foot, or touch the goat's tail while i'm milking: even if i say in three languages, dont pet the animal now, i will let u later....

argggggggg.... good thing i'm not an elephant ))

[gburns57au]

...It is so true that animals can sense if a person is bad or good intentioned.

Yes, I am certain that Roy Horn will be happy to testify to that pipe dream.

who ???

[gburns57au]

animals do not know 'trash' from 'non trash', they just choose whom they like or dislike...regardless of where you stand in human society (herd flock group school)

And how do they choose who they like or dislike.....from what they can sense about that person

[bina]

no.

most animals dont 'choose' people based on 'liking'... they choose based on instinctive qualities: hormones/smell/physical actions/ways of moving head showing teeth body postition etc....

i was just rammed by a male sheep two days ago who was handreared (bad news already) . i am 42 kilo and petite. i feed all my animals and pet them. he, however, feels that i am an other male sheep since i dont do that stupid thing female sheep do (putting my head down and kind of pecking at the ground a couple of time which is the sheep equivlent of batting eyelashes and saying 'oh dont hit me mister').... he doesnt like or dislike me.

i hate parrots. our lorikeet ONLY likes me. she/he attacks any body else, especially other males. i am the only one that can feed it or handle it.

i love one of my donkeys and she, mali, turns her butt on me everytime, but my male co worker she will do anything for, and he basically couldnt care less about her.

likes/dislikes in animals have nothing to do with human emotional characteristics. our caanani hates orthodox religious boys and arab boys. girls, and grown men are ok. most likely since the former throw rocks at her and she has learned to associate anyone with certain clothing/smell/facial features/size with rocks being thrown at her.

animals dont 'sense' diddlisquat. they teach themselves reinforce patterns that they learn, based on their senses. thats why animals are trainable. any animal. i've seen some real trash types and their dogs love them. so do their cats and their wives. and they are bad guys. lying, sneaking, trashy, often nasty. their dogs are never beaten. well taken care of. their dogs adore them. my dogs know them and love them. i cant stand them.

the more i work with animals, the more i learn and the more i am amazed at the subtlest signs they can read, and react to.

this is where people dont understand for instance the dogs attacking small children syndrome. how the dog sees it is not how we see it (as vicious behavior or 'bad). the reasoning behind an attack are varied. they've been discussed over and over also here on threads. but it boils down most often to lack of proper understanding of dog breed behavior and actions that occur at the time. not LIKE VS DISLIKE. just actions that caused reactions.

thats why when an animal attacks or threatens or ignores me, i dont take it personally. its not about like or dislike. its about what i did or didnt do, wear, smell, eat vocalize that was different than other times.

bina

israel

there are great animal behavior sites and nienke in the pet section has a great knowlege of pet behavior etc if u want more info....

[seonai]

Wonderful insight into animal reactions Bina and Johpa, thanks

[IMA_FARANG]

Hey this isn't funny so please stop ridiculing this poor man. You all think elephants are these peaceful giants, WRONG!

I was once attacked by one, thank god it was chained securely. My colleague's uncle was killed by one. Ask around and I'm sure you'll hear more stories regarding the true nature of these giant beasts.

Hopefully this will make you think twice before buying sugar cane for it and assuming this act makes the animal your best friend.

Well, look at it from the elephants viewpoint. I mean wouldn't you be angry too if some French guy kept feeding you sugarcane and kept trying to grab your "Ivory"?

Sounds like a normal night at Soi Nana to me.

Edited November 9, 2007 by IMA_FARANG

[Artfullmover]

So to recap .... We have a frenchman that likes ivory and an elephant that likes frogs...

[meemiathai]

thats why when an animal attacks or threatens or ignores me, i dont take it personally. its not about like or dislike. its about what i did or didnt do, wear, smell, eat vocalize that was different than other times.

Not much different from human beings. That's also why I don't take it personally too.

[JimsKnight]

Dunno, but when I was in BKK last I was hanging out at this outdoor bar/restaurant. Outside on the pavement along comes a mahoot with a baby elephant. Anyway, seeing as this is not exactly rare me and this other guy carry on drinking when all of a sudden the baby elephant just charges at this thai guy (who was talking to his friends outside) and rams him! The guy was badly winded, with bruised ribs no doubt and knocked to the floor but no broken ribs.

Nobody could figure out why the elephant had attacked, there was no provocation or loud noises from the bar that I could see to cause the attack (even the traffic was light. After the guy had got up the elephant (having returned to the mahoot) just resumed it's position as if nothing had even happened! Yeah maybe it just didn't like guy, I saw on an Indian documentary once a woman saying that some elephants are able to tell who is good and who is evil. Maybe this one could too?

Regardless of this folklore i've always been wary of these beasts ever since.