Why Can't Thai People Understand Me?

[meadish_sweetball]

I had a girl ask me if I has seen แวน already. I had no clue what she was talking about and I was completely lost as to what she meant. It turned out that she meant Van Helsing. All the Thais in the room completely understood what she was asking.

Many times Thais speak English and I am the only one who doesn't understand.

How about when I met a Thai friend on the way to the movies and asked him what movie he'd seen. His smiling reply was "queue bew"... he really looked as if he expected me to understand it, and I scratched my head long and hard, but did not get it until I saw the movie posters in front of the theatre:

"Kill Bill", of course...

I still misunderstand English words in the middle of a primarily Thai sentence, especially the names of American Actors and Actresses or movies. The strange tones they put on the names throws me off alot.

I defintitely agree, the hardest part of Thai to understand is the English words. The tonal system and Thai creativity has a knack of changing English words until they sound like original constructions. From a Thai viewpoint, it makes sense of course - they need the tones to make the phonetic differences English speakers make with differing consonant sounds/combinations...

[dr_Pat_Pong]

isn't Bill Bin out of a Thai mouth ? It certainly is where I live in Bkk.

[Totster]

isn't Bill Bin out of a Thai mouth ? It certainly is where I live in Bkk.

more like "kin bin" I reckon....

totster

[meadish_sweetball]

isn't Bill Bin out of a Thai mouth ?  It certainly is where I live in Bkk.

more like "kin bin" I reckon....

totster

Yes, it would normally be something like "kin bin" according to the Thai pronunciation rules, but an alternative and widespread mispronunciation of "l" and "ll" at the end of words is actually "w", as stated.

Cf. the Thai nickname "Milk" - pronounced "miw".

[craftwork]

Thought better of this post, and deleted it.

[Richard W]

Yes, it would normally be something like "kin bin" according to the Thai pronunciation rules, but an alternative and widespread mispronunciation of "l" and "ll" at the end of words is actually "w", as stated.

And of course, is a native English pronunciation so long as it stays [khiw] and doesn't become [khju]!

[RDN]

Thought better of this post, and deleted it.

I don't know why you did - I got the original "topic notification" email and have read it a few times and see nothing too objectionable!

What I will say, though, is that tonight I went to my 7-11 and asked for a D-Prompt card. The girl said "Sam roi", so I said "OK, 2 please". She said "Song roi?", so I said "Sam roi, song bai". The girl behind me in the queue giggled, and I felt like asking her "Phom poot pasa Thai mai geng, chai mai?". But I think that would just have resulted in more puzzled looks and/or giggles...

I get the feeling sometimes that, unlike most farangs who will try hard to understand a Thai trying to speak English, Thai people just don't want to make the effort when it is the other way round and would rather just laugh at you no matter how hard you try

[Richard W]

Isn't this just the result of another presumption? Here the presumption is that farangs will haggle when it's not appropriate. (See anti-backpacker threads.) Would 'OK, 2 cards please' have avoided the confusion?

[craftwork]

I get the feeling sometimes that, unlike most farangs who will try hard to understand a Thai trying to speak English, Thai people just don't want to make the effort when it is the other way round

For some Thais I know, anything to do with language is just embarrassing.

On the other hand, sometimes we have no choice than to attempt to understand each other...at the 7-11, you wanted to buy something, and the staff member wants to sell it to you. She wasn't the one laughing...just some kid behind you who should have known better.

I know a westerner who in his day-to-day transactions insists on doing everything himself (never asks his Thai guy for help). In an average day he might buy parts for his computer, order components in a lathe shop, talk to the landlord...I have never seen anyone yet laughing at him, though his Thai is far from perfect.

Most of us are too busy to worry about someone's accent or the odd misplaced word, no matter what language we are using.

[RDN]

Isn't this just the result of another presumption?  Here the presumption is that farangs will haggle when it's not appropriate.  (See anti-backpacker threads.)

Yes, it could have been the result of that assumption. But I did hold up my hand and make a "V" sign when I first said "OK, 2 please" and pointed at the card. I also thought she may have thought I wanted to by a cheaper (200 baht) card.

Would 'OK, 2 cards please' have avoided the confusion?

But looking back, I think the use of classifiers - in this case "cards" - would have helped in my English, as it did in my Thai, as you suggest.

[RDN]

...For some Thais I know, anything to do with language is just embarrassing. ...

I know what you mean - my g/f gets very "confused' and sometimes quite upset when I ask her to explain the correct way of saying something that is not simple, for example 'How do I say in Thai: "Did I not speak Thai correctly?" ', as opposed to "I did not speak Thai correctly" or "Do I speak Thai well?"

I am sure she could explain it if she really put her mind to it, but she seems to get ashamed if she doesn't understand immediately the subtlety of what I am trying to say in Thai.

[Boon Mee]

I've found there's farang subtlety and Thai subtlety and you don't get any more subtle than a Thai.

But, she probably didn't think it was worth her consideration. Happens to me all the time.

[sbk]

Along this vein, sort of, is a very funny incident that happened to me today. My father-in-law showed up early morning (why oh why does he always do this? But, never mind, that is the topic of another thread entirely ) and asked me to tell my husband (his son) to take the broken stainless water tank to his house. The woman who works for us started by moaning "but we threw them all away". I am thinking "huh??? ". I looked at her and said, "What are you talking about?" She said, " they were all broken, we threw them all away". So I asked "What got broken?" She answered " the buckets for cement". Now I am really confused because I am sure my father-in-law asked me about the water tank, not the buckets. Both words are pronounced "tahnk" down here but she missed the entire conversation, just heard "tahnk". Hubby gets up, finds dad asks him what's up and turns out, I am correct, he wants to take the old water tank to his house. Nothing about buckets. The woman who worked for us assumed to understand what he was saying (he speaks Thai South, she speaks Thai Bangkok) and assumed I could not figure out what he was saying. Never mind the fact that I have lived here 15 years and have been communicating with my father-in-law quite well for that whole time. Never mind the fact that I do speak Thai South, she just assumed that I couldn't understand his Thai. She was completely embarrassed and perhaps will no longer presume I cannot understand people! I can't help but see the humor in this although somehow I don't think she thought it was funny (everyone else did, and laughed very heartily at her). What an embarassing way to lose face I would imagine.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thought better of this post, and deleted it.

Now we would all like to see what you wrote, of course...

[meadish_sweetball]

...For some Thais I know, anything to do with language is just embarrassing. ...

I know what you mean - my g/f gets very "confused' and sometimes quite upset when I ask her to explain the correct way of saying something that is not simple, for example 'How do I say in Thai: "Did I not speak Thai correctly?" ', as opposed to "I did not speak Thai correctly" or "Do I speak Thai well?"

I am sure she could explain it if she really put her mind to it, but she seems to get ashamed if she doesn't understand immediately the subtlety of what I am trying to say in Thai.

All these three you can do with the absence/presence of question particles, and if it is very important for the context to emphasize time or place, you can use an initial time or place adverbial, but in most contexts, it would be unneccessary.

My suggestions:

Did I not speak (Thai) correctly (just then / at that time / yesterday)?

(เมื่อกี๊ / เมื่อตอนนั้น / เมื่อวานนี้) ผมพูดผิดหรือครับ / ผมพูดไม่ถูกหรือครับ

meuakii / meua tawn nan / meuawaan nii phom phuut phit reu khrap / meuakii phom phuut mai thuuk reu khrap

I did not speak Thai correctly.

ผมพูดผิดครับ / ผมพูดไม่ถูกครับ / ผมพูดไม่ชัด

Do I speak Thai well?

ผมพูดไทยได้เก่งไหม

phom phuut thai dai keng mai?

Some Thais, sometimes even the ones who speak decent English, have some difficulty with the reversed word order and its significance in English yes/no questions.

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes, it would normally be something like "kin bin" according to the Thai pronunciation rules, but an alternative and widespread mispronunciation of "l" and "ll" at the end of words is actually "w", as stated.

And of course, is a native English pronunciation so long as it stays [khiw] and doesn't become [khju]!

I am sure you are right, but which English-speaking dialect/area is it? I have never noticed it in native English speech.

[RDN]

All these three you can do with the absence/presence of question particles, and if it is very important for the context to emphasize time or place, you can use an initial time or place adverbial, but in most contexts, it would be unneccessary.

My suggestions:

Did I not speak (Thai) correctly (just then / at that time / yesterday)?

(เมื่อกี๊ / เมื่อตอนนั้น / เมื่อวานนี้) ผมพูดผิดหรือครับ / ผมพูดไม่ถูกหรือครับ

meuakii / meua tawn nan / meuawaan nii phom phuut phit reu khrap / meuakii phom phuut mai thuuk reu khrap

I did not speak Thai correctly.

ผมพูดผิดครับ / ผมพูดไม่ถูกครับ / ผมพูดไม่ชัด

Do I speak Thai well?

ผมพูดไทยได้เก่งไหม

phom phuut thai dai keng mai?

Some Thais, sometimes even the ones who speak decent English, have some difficulty with the reversed word order and its significance in English yes/no questions.

Thanks ms - I'll study your Thai phrases after a good night's sleep and with my dictionaries at hand. Appreciate it very much.

[Richard W]

Yes, it would normally be something like "kin bin" according to the Thai pronunciation rules, but an alternative and widespread mispronunciation of "l" and "ll" at the end of words is actually "w", as stated.

And of course, is a native English pronunciation so long as it stays [khiw] and doesn't become [khju]!

I am sure you are right, but which English-speaking dialect/area is it? I have never noticed it in native English speech.

Estuarine English (mostly London and its environs, including Essex).

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes, it would normally be something like "kin bin" according to the Thai pronunciation rules, but an alternative and widespread mispronunciation of "l" and "ll" at the end of words is actually "w", as stated.

And of course, is a native English pronunciation so long as it stays [khiw] and doesn't become [khju]!

I am sure you are right, but which English-speaking dialect/area is it? I have never noticed it in native English speech.

Estuarine English (mostly London and its environs, including Essex).

Thanks for the clarification Richard. In that case, I guess you would have understood what I did not - and maybe it wasn't so funny after all.

[Boon Mee]

พมจะพูด..."คนโง"...คํานีัั้้ไดัอย่างไรครับ

ขอบคุณมายครับ

บุญมี

[snowleopard]

พมจะพูด..."คนโง"...คํานีัั้้ไดัอย่างไรครับ

ขอบคุณมายครับ

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BoonMee,

What is it you wanna say there?

If they are the words I think they should be,then I counted 4 spelling errors.

Want me to correct them or let it be?

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

[Boon Mee]

พมจะพูด..."คนโง"...คํานีัั้้ไดัอย่างไรครับ

ขอบคุณมายครับ

บุญมี

BoonMee,

What is it you wanna say there?

If they are the words I think they should be,then I counted 4 spelling errors.

Want me to correct them or let it be?

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

Snowleopard~

Only four?

Well, what I was attempting to say was: "พมจะพูด" "how do I say"

"คนโง" - slang term "sucker farang" "คำนีั้" these words ไดัอย่างไรัครบ = dai yang rai krap.

Please correct as necessary!

Believe me, my ego can handle the criticism. Especially at my entry-level Thai-writing skill level!

[snowleopard]

พมจะพูด..."คนโง"...คํานีัั้้ไดัอย่างไรครับ

ขอบคุณมายครับ

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BoonMee,

What is it you wanna say there?

If they are the words I think they should be,then I counted 4 spelling errors.

Want me to correct them or let it be?

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Snowleopard~

Only four?

Well, what I was attempting to say was: "พมจะพูด" "how do I say"

"คนโง" - slang term "sucker farang" "คำนีั้" these words ไดัอย่างไรัครบ = dai yang rai krap.

Please correct as necessary!

Believe me, my ego can handle the criticism. Especially at my entry-level Thai-writing skill level!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The spelling should be...ผมจะพูด คนโง่ คำนี้ ได้อย่างไรครับ

Maybe you could fill up some more words and say...

ผมอยากจะพูดว่า คนโง่ คำพวกนี้เขียนว่าอย่างไรครับ

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

[Boon Mee]

Snowleopard~

Thanks for the help. What's interesting is when the "jaw jan" is enlarged it looks like "chaw ching"?

Let me get back to you w/more questions!

Cheers

บุญมี

[snowleopard]

Snowleopard~

Thanks for the help.  What's interesting is when the "jaw jan" is enlarged it looks like "chaw ching"?

Let me get back to you w/more questions!

Cheers

บุญมี

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi BoonMee,

Here are those two letters when they are written on my Thai keyboard...

1."chor jaan" จจจจจจจจจ

2."chor ching" ฉฉฉฉฉฉฉฉ

Snowleopard.

[Boon Mee]

Snowleopard~

Thanks for the help.  What's interesting is when the "jaw jan" is enlarged it looks like "chaw ching"?

Let me get back to you w/more questions!

Cheers

บุญมี

Hi BoonMee,

Here are those two letters when they are written on my Thai keyboard...

1."chor jaan" จจจจจจจจจ

2."chor ching" ฉฉฉฉฉฉฉฉ

Snowleopard.

Hi Snowleopard,

Think I was confusing "chor jaan" จจจจจ & "chor ching" ฉฉฉฉฉ because...

when the "chor jaan" is enlarged, the top stroke appears to covers the loop on my display. In effect, confusing a newbie such as myself!

Until I can get "up to speed" think I'll stick to "riak waa arai"!

เรียกกว่าอะไร

Cheers,

บุญมี

[Ajarn]

As a native English speaker, I now sympathize more with those who learn it as a second language since it's my opinion, at this stage in my Thai Language studies that spelling/pronounciation is closer in Thai

I used to always tell my students that I felt lucky to be a native speaker of English... I don't think I'd be such a good English student- Kinda the way I was in my required Spanish classes as a kid..

The mistakes many of my students make often relate to improper direct translations using Thai syntax rules(eg, adjective after noun vs English order). I learned to correct a lot of my own mistakes with Thai syntax/grammar/vocab by listening to their English mistakes.

But, as it's always been, the more I learn, the more I realize that I still have a looong way to go

[~G~]

I think that in this case just make it obvious that you speak Thai, by just saying a few opening sentences that have nothing to do with what you want -

- Sawatdee krup, Sabai dee mai Krup (even it is a bit too personal for a stranger)

or just

- Kortot Krup

and maybe chat a bit more.

These opening sentences will "tune them in" to the fact that the strange farang in front of them can indeed speak thai and they will be more open to listen to the rest.

and of course... with a big smile which is the basis of all thai conversation...