Red Flag / Yellow Flag

[DavidHouston]

What is the meaning of the terms ใบแดง and ใบเหลือง in Thai politics? Do these words come from football / soccer?

[meadish_sweetball]

If it is taken from football (soccer), the English terms are 'red card' and 'yellow card'.

I am not really a football type person but I believe a yellow card means a warning and a red card sends the player to the penalty bench. Please correct me if I am wrong.

There is a good explanation of the expressions as used in the Thai system on the following address:

http://www.pub-law.net/publaw/view.asp?PublawIDs=817

If I have understood it correctly, it seems to refer to a system designed to curb cheating during elections to the senate - a candidate who wins the elections but whose results are not accepted by the election committee due to cheating practices, is said to have got a 'yellow card', and if this situation happens twice, is said to have got a 'red card', which essentially bars the candidate from running in further elections.

It's possible I have not understood this completely though.

[mangkorn]

They are references from football. (The court gave Thai Rak Thai a red card; the Democrats received a yellow card...) ใบ is a classifier for card in this case.

[yoot]

What is the meaning of the terms ใบแดง and ใบเหลือง in Thai politics? Do these words come from football / soccer?

For your second question, yes, it comes from football/soccer.

In Thai politics, 'yellow card' and 'red card' is used similar to soccer. But it doesn't mean if you got two yellow cards it's equal to one red card. As long as only 'yellow card' you got, you is till able to be a candidate for any reelection they set up.

As for the penalty by getting 'yellow card' or 'red card', it depends on the evidences they found on the election. If they find or believe that the election result has been affected by the winner but they have no legit evident of that cheating has done by the winner itself, they would just give the winner the yellow card. And set up a reelection which the one who got yellow card is still able to be a candidate for the reelection. But if they find that the winner has done that for sure, then they will give the winner 'red card' which mean that one can't be a candidate for the next reelection.

[DavidHouston]

This is a wonderful and complete answer. Thank you so much, Khun Yoot.

[stateman]

They are references from football. (The court gave Thai Rak Thai a red card; the Democrats received a yellow card...) ใบ is a classifier for card in this case.

Strictly speaking TRT didn't get the red card (from the Election Commission) although the party was disbanded, and exec members got 5 years timeout. This decree was by the Constitution Justices, acting like a court.

Dems actually didn't get either a yellow nor red card. Their charges were trumped up charges happening when the ruling party was caught playing foul and pointed fingers at the Dems and said like we got caught, but they did it too! The justices found the charges unfounded.

Yellow card and Red card are short-hand terms referring to actions by the Election Commission who has the authority to punish someone on election frauds. Punishment was like what yoot explained. Keep in mind that we now have a new constitution and new 'daughter' election laws. It is now more strict, with the attempt to close down more loopholes found from the previous constitution/laws. It is now so severe that certain actions are punishable with years of being barred for the candidate and even disbanding the party found committing the fouls.

So in the case of TRT, the term red card might have been used by some, because the penalty was similar to those doled out by the EC, although back then the old constitution/law didn't have penalty to disband a party - I believe.

PP party which is the phoenix of TRT of old is heavily rumored to be using the same 'money talk' campaign, along with several dark tactics. It is being more widely discussed now that some of these will land them the 'red card' penalty and the party disbanded. If that happens Mr. T from London would be sorely upset because all his heavy spending didn't get him the governing party as planned.

Yesterday the EC admitted that election cheating is becoming widespread. They found cash circ. in Isaan doubling in the past month! I believe this was based on the numbers from BoT and comm. banks. They said with the slow down in the economy, any increase in the cash in circ. was unlikely. The only explanation seems to indicate election frauds. Lot of villagers are known to cash in on their new-found cash thru ATMs. Hmmm! Tracing the source of these funds should reveal sth interesting.

[DavidHouston]

Thank you, Stateman, for that explanation. BTW, what are the Thai legal terms for the colloquial "ใบแดง" and "ใบเหลือง"?

[stateman]

Thank you, Stateman, for that explanation. BTW, what are the Thai legal terms for the colloquial "ใบแดง" and "ใบเหลือง"?

Good question, DavidHouston.

As in soccer, when the referee pulls out a yellow card, one knows it is a penalty. Not so serious; whereas a red card is also a penalty - and the player gets kicked out of the game. If you ask what is the legal term of the penalty, you now have to deal into the detail of each infraction, which can be any of the article in the rule book. At least in soccer, often a certain kind of infraction is so well known that the announcer simply say 'tripping', and everyone understands. If the violation is of a more obscure nature, the announcer has to explain at length, plus roll back the tape, just to make it clear to the audience.

In Thai election, infractions are similar. It is far easier to say yellow card and red card to denote a violation. Unfortunately election violations are varied and at times may be more underground and complex. So if you simply use the legal term of ถูกตัดสิทธิ which means his right is revoked, it immediately begs further explanation to expound the deed he did, or more likely the multiple deeds he did, and it violates the election law on article 137(4), etc. and the resulting penalty. Watching soccer is simpler eh?

The short A to your Q is often it is a long paragraph in the news to describe it.

I can cite a few simple ones, but I think leaving a long-winded answer may be more complete. Hope you understand.

OK I'll also write football = soccer, so all readers who are not from the US won't feel offended.

[stateman]

Also, if you'd say (he is) penalized. Then it would be ถูกลงโทษ (ทางการเมือง - in politics). Other than that, I think a more specific term befitting the penalty would be used, such as the one cited above as (his) right is revoked.

[DavidHouston]

Here are some specifics from today's Khao Sot regarding the penalties for various election violations:

_______________________

[1]"ทั้งนี้หากกกต.พิจารณาเรื่องร้องคัดค้านการสืบสวนสอบสวนและเชื่อได้ว่าการกระทำดังกล่าวไม่ได้เป็นการกระทำของผู้สมัครส.ส.หรือว่าที่ส.ส. หรือผู้สมัครส.ส.ไม่มีส่วนรู้เห็นกับการกระทำนั้น แต่เป็นการกระทำของผู้สนับสนุน หรือผู้หนึ่งผู้ใด

If the Election Commission takes the protest under consideration; investigates such protest; and concludes that [illegal] activities did occur but that such activities did not involve the actions of the parlimentary candidate or were undertaken without the knowledge of the member or the candidate, but that [such actions] were undertaken by one or more supporters [of such candidate], [then]

[2] กกต.จะสั่งให้เลือกตั้งใหม่ (ใบเหลือง)

the Election Commission shall order a new election (a yellow flag)

[3] แต่การกระทำดังกล่าวเป็นการกระทำของผู้สมัครส.ส.หรือว่าที่ส.ส. หรือผู้สมัครมีส่วนรู้เห็น เกี่ยวข้องให้ผู้หนึ่งผู้ใดดำเนินการตามมาตรา 53

However, if such [illegal] activities are undertaken by the actions of the parlimentary candidate or [are actions] which the member of parliment or the candidate had knowledge that one or more persons engaged in [the prohibited activities] of section 53, [then]

[4] กกต.จะมีมติสั่งเพิกถอนสิทธิ์ (ใบแดง)

the Election Commission shall order an abrogation of the [candidate's] rights (a red flag)"

__________________________

The yellow flag penalty seems particularly harsh in that a candidate may be required to stand for a substitute election if one of his or her supporters engaged in the illegal activities. Also, knowledge in both cases can be attributed to "the member or the candidate". Does this mean the "member" who has taken his seat after the election which is the subject of the protest?

Am I reading this correctly? Thanks for your assistance.