My Ex Is Kicking Me Out Of The Country

[phuketrichard]

Hey;

I was married to my ex but we were married in america but then moved back here.

Our daughter was living with me and i was supporting her eductaion here in Phuket while she ran around. My ex threatened that if i did not pay here $$ she would take the kid away. Well that got me really pissed and scared so I want and got a lawyer and sued not only for divorce but also sole custody of our daughter.

The lawyer arranged with the court and all which took about 6 months. She agreed to a setlement and then the day of court did not show up so i was granted the divorce and sole custody.

NOTE u need that paper to get her her thai passport as otherwise BOTH parents need to sign for her pp until she is 16 in thailand, ( america a 14 year old can apply alone).

Get a good lawyer ( if ur in Phuket i can reccomend one ) that will act as a go between . 9 out of 10 times it is about Money. BUT since u never married i hope at least your name is on the Birth paper. The court does not side with the thai or the farnag but like america takes the best interest of the child into account when they assign custody.

IN this Paul MW is correct but he is parital in correct on this statement, "SPECIAL COURTS: Juvenile and Family Courts to hear custody cases can be found only in Bangkok and a few of the larger cities in Thailand" as i went to the court here in Phuket

and this statement is also off, "Both parents must accompany their minor child during the application process. In case one of the parents is unable to be present, he/she must sign a letter of consent, which must be brought to the office by the other parent and the minor" Unless you have the sole custody paper which the court can issue you as this is what i had when i got my daughters thai passport extension. Luckily for me she did sign the letter of cnsent for her us passport application as we did it here in Phuket when the consulate was here after the Tsunami.

Forget her parents... do it on ur own.

Does he have a canadian passport? How can she follow u to Canada if u take him? does she hold Canadian citizenship otherwise she has no chance in getting a visa on her own. Merely the threat of a lawyer contacting her will change her tune. Thai's in genral respect lawyers and have fear of courts. She is using your son as a means to get to you and thats terriable, ( been there to) go thru with and allowing the lawyer to handle it all for u, dont speak with her or make any further atempt to contact her. If she shows up at work get someone to document the harrasment.

Best bet is go ahead with the lawyer and court to get full custody of him. She will need to spend money to get a lawyer and then have to also prove to the court that she can provde for him better than u can

Why not tell her family the whole story as that's what she seems to be afraid of?

How is she going to stop you returning to Thailand once she has left?

I'd get the letter from her saying that she'll allow you to take the child out of the country and then do as the other poster suggests and file a custody suit with that as additional proof that she doesn't want to take care of the child.

Try also to get her family on your side by saying you want to stay and take care of the kid where he's near his grandparents and to get some Thai culture.

And record any 'phone conversations or physical meetings you have with her and keep a record of emails.

Good luck.

Edited November 25, 2007 by phuketrichard

[logpoacher]

BigDaddy,

I know this sounds like a silly question, but are you sure that you are not married? Where did you do your church wedding? A church wedding in England gives you a marriage certificate, there is no need for a separate trip to any civil office to register the marriage. Equally, a marriage certificate from any foreign country is valid in Thailand - you do not have to remarry every time you move to a different country. I guess that you might have to get your embassy to translate the certificate into Thai, but it is definitely valid here.

Sorry if this is no help for your particular situation and wish you good luck with your fight.

[JustAnotherFarang]

BigDaddy,

I know this sounds like a silly question, but are you sure that you are not married? Where did you do your church wedding? A church wedding in England gives you a marriage certificate, there is no need for a separate trip to any civil office to register the marriage. Equally, a marriage certificate from any foreign country is valid in Thailand - you do not have to remarry every time you move to a different country. I guess that you might have to get your embassy to translate the certificate into Thai, but it is definitely valid here.

Sorry if this is no help for your particular situation and wish you good luck with your fight.

dont wish to intrude on what is a sad and sorry situation but with regards to getting married in Thailand, you are not officially married until you register the marriage which is uncomplicated but a littel time consuming. I got married 6 years ago and only registered the marriage 2 years ago with my embassy and then a thai goverment office (cant remember the name) before I was given any sort of certificate

As it stands, the guy is not legally married

JAF

PS To the OP:- with regards to the child, I really hope you two dont make your problems his/her problems. Though its not easy, try not to lower yourself and fight in the mire. You sound like a nice guy, just do the right thing by your child...........I wish you all the very best

[brahmburgers]

Tell her you will leave if she gives you custody and you need it to leave and take care of him properly O/S....then when you get it..leave for a little while and come back and tell her to bugger orf.

I agree

If you are the biological father - get a good lawyer and apply for custody of the child, then apply for the appropriate support visa to stay in Thailand - she can't then do anything about you staying in Thailand.

I agree.

As Big Daddy's lawyer said, "make an official complaint to the police about the threats and about the possibility for her to take off with my son unannounced and without any forwarding info." I believe it's something like: 'making a complaint without asking for an arrest.' That way there's a record at the police dept. - which might help if things get worse later on.

I don't see how she can get you kicked out if you're legal. And with the police report, you can prove that she could well have intent to harass or possibly even entrap you.

[phuketrichard]

to register a marriage in thai;and is very very simple

U just go to the amphur and register 10 minutes

Edited November 25, 2007 by phuketrichard

[JustAnotherFarang]

to register a marriage in thai;and is very very simple

U just go to the amphur and register 10 minutes

Sorry thats not entirely true........ yes, you have to register at your local amphore but you must also get confirmation of your marital status from your embassy, proof of your identification from 2 referees and have that all approved before you get a marriage certificate....... This is what takes the most time and costs the most money

JAF

[m02]

FWIW: Perhaps the legal route is best, and getting the written permission for your son to travel to Canada certainly is of a high priority. However, you have to consider direct physical violence against you is always an option. There was a case years ago up here in Chiang Mai of a fairly well known farang husband going through a difficult separation or divorce with his wife who was fairly well connected. Ended up with him lying dead on the sidewalk with a bullet in his head. Don't believe the wife was ever indicted. It happens, so you would do well to consider it.

I'm not sure I'd confront her if it is seems possible to just stay calm and deal with her and let her cool down. Your priority here is your son; won't do him any good if things get out of hand and you are gone. Or if she takes him and he disappears - he could end up with a third cousin in Nan and you'd never know. My suggestion would be to be reasonable regardless of what she says or does. Wait her out. Forget about being frustrated and upset at being under her thumb, that's just a mental liability you don't need. Get the signed permission from her, get his Canadian passport as soon as possible. Don't try and take him out of country without the signed permission - sometimes Immigration checks and will stop you. If you get the signed permission then leave for awhile. Stay in contact with her and maybe even send her some money on a monthly basis. Come back to Thailand in a few months and maybe she won't even be here. If she turns up, distance yourself as much as possible and avoid confrontations.

The problem with the legal angle at this stage is that emotional jealous people don't give a dam_n what the lawyers or judges may say, and that piece of paper you may get giving you custody will be a poor substitute for a missing abducted son. If you can deal with her and keep things calm then eventually she will probably give you custody in exchange for a reasonable 'alimony' and her belief that she bested you. That is a much better situation than what might happen if you push too hard and send an emotionally somewhat deranged angry woman over the edge.

[stateman]

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[stateman]

FWIW: Perhaps the legal route is best, and getting the written permission for your son to travel to Canada certainly is of a high priority.

Since she is willing to consent to letting the OP take custody of the boy, I think getting her to sign that consent paper in the situation that OP leaves the country may be of much help.

This paper then can be used in court to confirm that she has no intention to keep the boy, should she try to blackmail for money later for a settlement. This shows to court that OP has a better interest in looking after the child.

The court filing can come later.

[lodesafun]

You sound like a good man in a bad situation. I can only offer my sympathy and my hope for a postive outcome.

Do what you can and knowing that you did, no matter the outcome, will be the foundation for further progression in your life.

Keep the strength.

Lodes...

[stateman]

What visa does the OP hold? it may help with court proceedings and does he have enough to fight it as legally I doubt whether he has any hope of keeping the child especially here in Thailand. Picture your self in a Thai court in front of a Thai judge with the Thai mother of the child smiling sweetly. and NO marriage certificate....

Disagree! Thai courts have well established that they are fair in a custody case like this. Please read other posts here which reflect more on reality.

OP should do all the pre-filing due diligence.

I firmly believe the court route is essential to fix things once and for all.

[Freddie_fly]

What visa does the OP hold? it may help with court proceedings and does he have enough to fight it as legally I doubt whether he has any hope of keeping the child especially here in Thailand. Picture your self in a Thai court in front of a Thai judge with the Thai mother of the child smiling sweetly. and NO marriage certificate....

Disagree! Thai courts have well established that they are fair in a custody case like this. Please read other posts here which reflect more on reality.

OP should do all the pre-filing due diligence.

I firmly believe the court route is essential to fix things once and for all.

I also have to disagree here, I was recently given sole custody of my 9yr old daughter by the Thai courts. They were very fair and understanding, (even to switching to english to ask me questions after failing to decypher my terrible thai). My daughter had been living between me and my ex-wife for several years, (always staying with me for the 6 months I am in country), but I could prove beyond doubt that all funds came from me. I had to appear at the child welfare offices and then in court. My daughter now resides with me and my (soon to be) new bride.

While I found the whole process quite intimidating, I cannot fault either the Thai Child welfare office or the court.

[zorro1]

What visa does the OP hold? it may help with court proceedings and does he have enough to fight it as legally I doubt whether he has any hope of keeping the child especially here in Thailand. Picture your self in a Thai court in front of a Thai judge with the Thai mother of the child smiling sweetly. and NO marriage certificate....

Disagree! Thai courts have well established that they are fair in a custody case like this. Please read other posts here which reflect more on reality.

OP should do all the pre-filing due diligence.

I firmly believe the court route is essential to fix things once and for all.

I also have to disagree here, I was recently given sole custody of my 9yr old daughter by the Thai courts. They were very fair and understanding, (even to switching to english to ask me questions after failing to decypher my terrible thai). My daughter had been living between me and my ex-wife for several years, (always staying with me for the 6 months I am in country), but I could prove beyond doubt that all funds came from me. I had to appear at the child welfare offices and then in court. My daughter now resides with me and my (soon to be) new bride.

While I found the whole process quite intimidating, I cannot fault either the Thai Child welfare office or the court.

extremely glad I am proven wrong in this case. I withdraw my comments totally

[uptheos]

to register a marriage in thai;and is very very simple

U just go to the amphur and register 10 minutes

Sorry thats not entirely true........ yes, you have to register at your local amphore but you must also get confirmation of your marital status from your embassy, proof of your identification from 2 referees and have that all approved before you get a marriage certificate....... This is what takes the most time and costs the most money

JAF

For me, at my local Amphur all they required was my original divorce certificate and two office workers there, who I didn't know acted as referees (200 Baht each).

Yep about 15 minutes.

[BigDaddy]

Good info here. Thanks for everything about previous experience and information about Thai laws. Useful indeed.

To answer a few questions - no official marriage. The church wedding was here in Thailand.

Yes getting her to sign a letter is all important. The letter is written and she has it, she is just unwilling as of yet to sign it. I just need to be patient. For now she is somewhat calmer. The woman I dated a couple of times had lied to my ex about an important detail and then mixed up her story allowing me to prove my innocence on one aspect. Not sure if I have bad luck or I choose the wrong type, but I find that the Thai women I tend to attract are very good at telling some interesting and often elaborate lies, yet they forget the dam_n details and put their feet in their mouths sometime later.

So the ex is calmer and things are a but easier. However it doesn't change anything. I need that paper and I need that custody so that this doesn't happen again in the future for whatever reason. The lawyer believes my chances are excellend because I have been the primary caregiver for over a year.

Probably the best advice so far has been to lose a few battles in order to win the war. I mistakenly have been approaching each problem with the attitude that I can 'win' every battle with 'reason' only to waste time, effort and emotion. No one wins that, least of all my son.

[Whitey]

Your name is on the birth certificate as the father. As long as you leave legally with her consent, you're ok. Once you get to your home country, apply for a court adjudication that you have custody. In Canada, fathers do have the right of custody, the same as the US. Don't let people fill your head with BS. See a lawyer in your home country and ask HER to make it happen with you and custody.

Ask yourself, what's more important? Losing your kid or staying in Thailand where he is in jeopardy?

You've got a son, you need to be thinking with the other head.

[Kilgore Trout]

Good info here. Thanks for everything about previous experience and information about Thai laws. Useful indeed.

To answer a few questions - no official marriage. The church wedding was here in Thailand.

Yes getting her to sign a letter is all important. The letter is written and she has it, she is just unwilling as of yet to sign it. I just need to be patient. For now she is somewhat calmer. The woman I dated a couple of times had lied to my ex about an important detail and then mixed up her story allowing me to prove my innocence on one aspect. Not sure if I have bad luck or I choose the wrong type, but I find that the Thai women I tend to attract are very good at telling some interesting and often elaborate lies, yet they forget the dam_n details and put their feet in their mouths sometime later.

So the ex is calmer and things are a but easier. However it doesn't change anything. I need that paper and I need that custody so that this doesn't happen again in the future for whatever reason. The lawyer believes my chances are excellend because I have been the primary caregiver for over a year.

Probably the best advice so far has been to lose a few battles in order to win the war. I mistakenly have been approaching each problem with the attitude that I can 'win' every battle with 'reason' only to waste time, effort and emotion. No one wins that, least of all my son.

I genuinely sympathize with your situation; its a shame when kids are put in the middle of this stuff, I know my parents were always fighting and badmouthing eachother to me. It sounds like this woman is really psycho; doesn't care about anything but herself. Considering the kid may have a learning disability my opinion is the following:

As foreigners here, especially western ones life in Thailand is great; even not mentioning the women; we are left alone, and can pretty much do whatever we want for a cheap price. Whatever it comes down to, we are here because we want to be. What you have to ask yourself is what's best for your child? As a real teacher with credentials having worked both here and in the west a child is better off growing up in Canada than here even if you are somewhat wealthy. Not just for academic reasons but social ones as well. I am familiar with the village and atoc and can tell you that with regard to disabled children there is NO accountability here; I have seen proper western psychologists tell parents what they want to hear over and over again just to get paid. An IEP from here will mean nothing and your child's education and development will be at risk. Beyond that if you know what society is like here (and I do in many ways love Thai culture) you will not have any second thoughts; I assume you want your child to be self sufficient and a free thinker. Likewise I don't know what business you are in but in any circumstances there are better opportunities and benefits in Canada than there are here (unless you are employed in the west and sent here which doesn't seem to be your case) and you and your child will be better taken care of. You will also be safe; the money and trouble she would have to put up to fight the case with you in Canada would be tremendous; I'm sure she would give up. I know you love living in Thailand but you have to think about what's best for your child; sounds like you care for him more than anyone else does so he should stay with you.

Some food for thought....best of luck.

[macb]

Interesting my situation is not the same but I have to go through with seeing lawyers as well, the difference is we are married and my daughter is now dual nationality.

I just got to see what happens in terms of who has what or whatever and what is the best plan, I know leaving my daughter in a Khmer village is not the best plan although I could oversee on a monthly basis.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1671721

Read my story there are some good supporters on here and firends all willing to help, this is why this is one of the leading Forums on this planet

[Blazer]

Get the letter and your son's birth certificate. Go to Canada and have a DNA test done to prove you are the father.

[phuketrichard]

why would u need to get a dna test??? if ur his father and on the BC?

He should have 2 passports one thai and one Canadian and they both can be obtained in Bangkok with ur wife/GF's signature.

Since ur both here get a thai Lawyer who speaks good english and has done the child custody cases before and get the sole custody done here. It will cost u much less than in Canada and it will be done correctly.

U have not said, where is ur son now? with u or with her? If he is with her it will be a bit more diffciult but still not impossible.

[LivinLOS]

Sounds all too similar to my buddys life of the last 3 years..

His psycho had off duty police (so they claimed) come round ram a gun in his face and tell him he would be killed if he stuck around.. Another visit made it clear he would be stitched up with a bag of pills and do hard time..

He was able to get custody through all this and left a couple of months ago.

[PRM]

I’ve heard that if you file a complaint against here at an embassy from Europe or America, she will be on a black list in America and all European countries.

Find out the nationality of her bf and tell her that if she makes any problems, you report here to his embassy and she will be banned from the entire western world, which is a nice way to loose face.

[Kilgore Trout]

I’ve heard that if you file a complaint against here at an embassy from Europe or America, she will be on a black list in America and all European countries.

Find out the nationality of her bf and tell her that if she makes any problems, you report here to his embassy and she will be banned from the entire western world, which is a nice way to loose face.

I'd be quite surprised if an embassy would put someone on a blacklist just because someone out of nowhere complained.

She might believe it though...

[teacher]

I’ve heard that if you file a complaint against here at an embassy from Europe or America, she will be on a black list in America and all European countries.

Find out the nationality of her bf and tell her that if she makes any problems, you report here to his embassy and she will be banned from the entire western world, which is a nice way to loose face.

I'd be quite surprised if an embassy would put someone on a blacklist just because someone out of nowhere complained.

She might believe it though...

First things first, You will need to get a sole responcibility letter from the local amphur where the baby is registered. Because without this you will not be able to take the baby anywhere at all. So you will need to do a bit of wheeling and dealing with her to get it. Although her parents can also witness this for you so, if you can get round them with a few baht im sure they will agree.

Wherever she is going she will either have to tell the embassy she has a kid and show his Birth certificate or, lie and say she has no kids. Question is who has the birth certificate, what is the baby's name on that certificate? if its your then she will not get out of the country without your consent. If all is against you call the embassy of the country where she is going.

Or report her to the police as missing.