Farang Kills Thai Armed Robber

[Tywais]

Just a couple of points on the topic. The 'khlong' in this case was an irrigation canal near the home. The Frenchman and his wife were building a resort on 7 rai of land and may be the reason for being targeted specifically (appearance of wealth). The money the burglar borrowed was from the village fund, a project initiated by Thaksin as one member pointed out. The village fund is like a local 'share' where villagers place money in it and others can borrow when needed. My guess is a lot of pressure was put on him to re-pay, possibly to the extent of losing his home and the reason for the extreme measures he took.

For members who may not be aware, the Thai law distinguishes between robbery during the day and those done at night. The reason is that doing it at night the robber must be aware there is a greater chance someone will be home and violence more likely. As such the penalties are much harsher for night burglaries. Add a gun to the equation then use of the gun with intent to kill, and the penalty would probably be life in prison or the death penalty. Only mention this in that the likely hood of the Frenchmen being charged will be much less under these circumstances. In this case, if the reports are correct, he will not be charged and follows under the laws of self defense.

[kmart]

In the absence of any real justice here, it makes me pleased to hear that this psycho robber got drowned in a klong like the mangy dog he is. It's quite a refreshing change to hear about some low-pondlife paying the ultimate price for his actions. As opposed to being paraded across the news; wai-ing and smirking with his new police chums.

Hoping his victims fully recover from their injuries.

[LoveDaBlues]

Since none of us was there and we all know how inaccurate the papers can be.......it's possible the perp was killed accidentally. He could have been struck by the Frenchman and fell into the Klong where he drowned.

Either way, a justified end-result for the Thai crim. Kudos to the Frenchman for his actions; especially after being shot. It's possible in the moment he didn't even realize he'd been shot until after things settled down.

I really can't believe some of the posters here think the Frenchman should be jailed. Either they are TROLLS or they aren't wired properly IMO.

PS - a friend of mine was shot at very close range with a .22 handgun. The bullet hit his skull, slid around under the skin to just above his ear. Never penetrated the skull!

Edited November 28, 2007 by LoveDaBlues

[Tatler]

The robber/burglar didn't have to fire the gun, he could have simply held them up and got his money that he wanted (whatever the amount was) He had full intent and understanding what he was going to do, he went there to kill and steal and paid with his life.

Does anyone have any further news about how they are doing?? I read that the wife was in ICU??

[Thaiboxer]

In response to the bad guy getting killed, "Som num naa" (serves him right) as the Thais would say. It's good that the Frenchman was not hauled off to jail and charged with manslaughter or something ridiculous like that. The defender in the US often ends up being charged as a criminal or they end up in civil court paying for damages to the intruder

I don't advocate lethal force being used if the guy is running away or trying to steal your car (no matter how angry you are) but if the guy is dumb enough to attack another man and his family and ends up getting himself killed, then he deserves it. I believe the legal term we use in the States for a case like this is "justifiable homicide".

[Dakhar]

Since none of us was there and we all know how inaccurate the papers can be.......it's possible the perp was killed accidentally. He could have been struck by the Frenchman and fell into the Klong where he drowned.

Either way, a justified end-result for the Thai crim. Kudos to the Frenchman for his actions; especially after being shot. It's possible in the moment he didn't even realize he'd been shot until after things settled down.

I really can't believe some of the posters here think the Frenchman should be jailed. Either they are TROLLS or they aren't wired properly IMO.

PS - a friend of mine was shot at very close range with a .22 handgun. The bullet hit his skull, slid around under the skin to just above his ear. Never penetrated the skull!

James Brady was not so lucky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Brady

Edited November 28, 2007 by Dakhar

[Iambabababor]

The robber's actions led to his own death.

One point I don't think has been mentioned. The dead man's wife had just had a child. The last paragraph says that the reason he stole the money was that he was in debt, and his wife had just had a child. Obviously he was wrong to do what he did. But he was desperate, and we don't know the full extent of his desperation, and motives. quote]

OK so he may have been desperate and in debt. He could have robbed someone or a store or something to get the money. But he came out with not 1 but 2 guns - clearly intending to use them if need be. He received his just desserts!

[Chloe82]

In response to the bad guy getting killed, "Som num naa" (serves him right) as the Thais would say.

Yes i would agree, som nam naa indeed, however i feel for the wife and newborn child that the dead Thai guy has left behind, they are also victims of this terrible crime.

I wish them well.

[qualtrough]

I see little merit in questioning the actions of the husband in this reported incident, it seems to me that the whole incident was probably one mad panic. But of course, like everyone else here I don't have the facts.

But just as this is true of people questioning the husband's actions, so it is also true of those praising what he did.

What happened happened - period.

There are however some questions we all ought to be asking, chiefly why did the alleged thief attack this couple? and in particular is this another incident of a criminal targeting a foreign household?

Much is said here of how individuals would do likewise - forgetting all the while that under almost any circumstance victims of armed robbery are at the end of a gun or point of a knife and in no position to do anything about it. (This includes people who keep guns in the house but not actually on their person, loaded and ready to go).

If anyone thinks they are going to turn into some Rambo-esque hero when attacked - they are kidding themselves.

The answer to personal safety is to know the risks, understand the risks and minimize the risks.

Of course there is ample evidence here on TV of expats who are in total denial that any significant risk actually exists.

If, as I ask above, this is indeed indicative of rising crime against foreigners then we all ought to be asking what can be done about that.

Guesthouse, it is unfair to characterize those who do not share your perception of any potential danger here as being 'in denial'. It may well be true that there has been a rise in crime targeting farangs, or the wealthy in general, but with only anecdotal evidence and no sound statistics to back it up that is only a hunch.

I can think of a number of factors that might account for a perception of a rising crime rate against farangs:

1. The number of farangs living in Thailand has increased dramatically in the last 10-15 years. Thus it may be that while the number of crime incidents involving farangs may indeed be higher, the rate of incidents per 1000 farangs may be the same or have risen only slightly. When I first arrived here in 1980 it was rare indeed to encounter farangs in Bangkok outside Sukumvit/Silom and some tourist spots. Now they can be found everywhere. The same is true upcountry as well.

2. With the internet we have an online community that reports any incident of crime involving farangs. When I lived here in the early 80s if it wasn't in the Post or the Nation, or didn't involve someone I knew--I didn't hear about it. Now we hear sooner or later about every serious crime incident involving farangs through this forum and others. While it may appear that there is more crime, it is very possible that we just have better information now.

3. When comparing whether or not Thailand is 'safe', behaviorial factors should be considered as well. A good percentage of the farangs here either dwell in or near what would be termed 'red light' districts back home, or engage in social interaction with those who work in those districts. That type of area and those types of people generally have higher crime rates anywhere in the world. Given that, I would wager that 1000 farangs spending 30 days cavorting in the bars in Patpong, Pattaya, Phuket would experience much lower crime than a similar cohort spending the same length of time in a sleazy red light district back in their home country. Wherever you have inebriated, wealthy people rubbing shoulders or other body parts with people who are dirt poor you will have problems. That kind of behavorial interaction certainly affects any assessment of relative safety here.

4. Another factor weighing on perceptions of crime here are people's expectations. It is apparent that there is not a small crowd of forum denizens who imagined Thailand as some kind of paradise that was free of any of the problems they experienced back home. When they eventually find out that Thailand too has crime, they feel betrayed, and feel as if Thailand has deteriorated, whereas what has deteriorated is their inaccurate perception of Thailand in the first place.

I will go so far as to say that a case might even be made that Thailand is safer now than it was when I first arrived here 28 years ago. At that time armed robberies of overnight buses were quite frequent on any runs to the South, esp. Phuket. I had a friend who was on a bus that was robbed and a policeman was shot and killed. The bus was then raked with gunfire, although miraculously nobody else was killed. That was 28 years ago. When you traveled on the train back then you received a little printed notice telling you to shut your window at night due to the possibility of someone stealing your valuables while you slept. Roadblocks and inspections were quite common in Bangkok back then. I recall being stopped one night after a Japanese national was shot in Patpong. I remember an AUA teacher being shot dead by a student in a bank, and a farang DJ was shot in broad daylight on Asoke. Bear in mind that the number of farangs resident in Bangkok was a tiny fraction of what it is today.

I will close by pointing out that it has been said that the plural of anecdote is fact. Until we have some firm statistical evidence everything is conjecture, and it is unfair to state that those who do not share those perceptions are 'in denial'.

Caveat: Please note that I am not saying that Thailand has a low rate of violent crime--in fact it is quite high. However, much of that is Thai on Thai and involves things like business disputes, family disputes, etc. & etc. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I think that the chances of farangs falling victim to the kind of random violent crimes that we all worry about and that make life in many of our big cities back home almost untenable--car jackings, drive by shootings, muggings, serial killers, street gangs, etc. are quite small.

P.S. Please everyone, do not quote any stats from Nationmaster to back up your argument. They are riddled with so many inconsistencies that drawing any conclusions from them is tenuous at best. This has been pointed out a number of times on this forum, so do a search if you want to see what I am talking about.

[jayjayjayjay]

Why did the farang have too drown the man?

The proper procedure once the raider was disarmed and overpowered was then to call the police.

The Farang should face charges for man slaughter.

YEah, like the gunman, once disarmed was going to help the farang put his bleeding dying pregnant wife on a motorbike and rush to hospital. Or better still, once disarmed he might have even jumped in front of a passing car, dragged the driver out and then help the farang load his bleeding dying pregnant wife into the car. Oh, and as the farang drives off the gunman can then resume an attack on the original driver of the car, maybe that person is more deserving of being shot in the head!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 28, 2007 by jayjayjayjay

[Mosha]

A victim as much of Thaksin's policies of encouraging people to get into debt, as anything else. The lesson being if you can't pay don't borrow,. Unfortunately, and my wife is a prime example. " I might win lucky number next month." That controls a lot of a fiscal thinking.

However going at night tooled up with 2 guns, suggest violence was on his mind. He got plenty of that as a result.

[wolfmanjack]

... very sad story, hope both of them will get better soon..

but ....to keep things within the lines..

the guy who killed the perpetrator, has at least committed manslaughter, what he did is way beyond self defense!

Sorry, guys what so ever, there are laws and rules, EVERYONE has to stick to them!

Otherwise we're back to the "right of the fist"!

OMG.... wow....

So if someone MURDERS your wife in cold blood right before your eyes (2 bullets to the head would convince ANYONE that their wife was DEAD) and then starts shooting at you and all you can do is close the distance to save your OWN LIFE (and you take a bullet!), would you not then fight to the end to make sure he stopped KILLING you (after killing your wife I'll remind you). If it happened to me I would do what I had to do to stop a murderer from murdering me, taking his gun away is not enough, the murderer will keep fighting and will try somethig else don't you think?

All this is irrelevant anyway, if someone killed the woman I love in front of me they would be dead within seconds if I had the chance. Just common sense, who says thou shalt not kill? TURN THE OTHER CHEEK?! Moronic nonsense.

Damian

If someone kills my wife or children even if i am not there i will track them down if at all possible and kill them . Even if they go to prison i will wait to see if they get pardoned and then kill them.

Since we are quoting scripture and eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and a life for a life.

My sympathies to the entire family. I hope his wife makes it.

By the way I have killed deer with a .22 at over 100 yards. A long rifle cartridge packs more gunpowder than a short does.

[buffcoat]

Desperately sorry to read this story, my sympathy to the husband and I hope his wife pulls through.

As to those who think the husband is in the wrong I find your views to be incomprehensible if they are your genuine views and if you have posted as a TROLL then I am disgusted you would do so on such an issue.

[wolfmanjack]

guns dont kill people ,people kill people .

That is just conservative Christian American small willy NRA claptrap. People with guns kill other people with ridiculous ease.

I just want people out there to know that not all Americans share that tragic and stupid NRA sentiment.

How about this then. Knives don't kill people but people use knives to kill people. Isn't there a few gangs here using japanese swords to kill people. Really guns, knives, swords, amonia nitrate. etc do not kill people unless a person uses them to do the killing. These are all just tools to get the job done and if one is not available then another will be used.

[ignoramus]

Right on wolfman, I would make it my sole reason for remaining alive - in fact I'd make a point of keeping fit healthy for as long as it took to track the scumbag down and do him down in the harshest, the slowest, way imaginable.

Theorising is for the glibly aloof, who cannot imagine themselves in another's shoes, those for whom the word 'humanity' has no meaning.

The obfuscaters -- guns and knives and swords don't kill people eh? Sophistic claptrap, meaningless rubbish, and not your original thought - you merely heard or read it somewhere. It's playing with words and meanings. You are mental lightweights and your hearts are just not with the program. you like to sit on the edge of the crowd and enjoy the suffering of others, like the knitters at the hangings.

A kerb can kill a person, a sharp table edge can kill a person, gobbling down a large piece of steak can kill a person. The blame lies where? I daresay a gun can too, especially if you look at the wrong end at the wrong time. If I die because someone in the vicinity, with a lethal weapon, is careless - or ill-intentioned - who or what kills me. <deleted>, does it matter? A criminally negligent person can't kill me by the power of thought or the evil eye, something has to be done. If he sticks the sharp end of a pencil or a feather up my nose, he can kill me, if he shoots me he can kill me, but what actually caused my death was the pencil....or the gun, or the fevver. The man 'killed' me - I do not punish the pencil, though it caused my death, but one does pursue the man. Tricky ain't it, theorists. Best you don't prognosticate. Leave this stuff to action man, go and do girly-boy somewhere else. Onya Damian, wolfman, and one or two others....

[glasshock]

Thaidelhands: what you think who you are?

and

qualtrough : who is silly? This guy whatsoever KILLED another person!

keep the money for the flowers to send some food to the guy who acted in "self defense" and things simply went out of control!

Yes, so was the other guy, but missing 3 times means that he probably was very, very nervous...or out of control...

None of us has been at the scene - so ALL - my AND your assumptions - are assumptions - lets see what the Thai-Law will 'speak"!

"Ye, shall NOT kill!"

Remember?

Utter nonsense........ I would spend the rest of my life in a stinking Thai prison / Execution to stop this man in his tracks! The life of your wife and child are more important than your own and in that situation how would you really react? ... after the 4th shot hits you what do you do? ... you think he is just trying to SCARE you with the two headshots to his wife? ... Just sit him down and give him a good talking to eh?.... I have read some fantastic posts on here and also some strange and rather odd posts but this just takes the p**s.......

In that situation I would kill.... this is not a punishment but self preservation!.... give me another option within the few seconds of reaction time and I will gladly take it....... no ... I didnt think so!

Take your head out of your arse for long enough and you will understand.

And for the victims?

Life spins & changes at the drop of a coin ... I wish you and your family all the best. Stay strong!

[buffcoat]

[

"Ye, shall NOT kill!"

Like a lot of people you are mistaken in what the original text says...the order is to not kill as in murder.

The OT is not a book for pacifists since it prescribes the death penalty for all sorts of 'crimes' (and the victims of crimes) as well as advocating genocide in warfare.

If you wish to use the OT as a source of justification then you will find it is entirely behind the action of the husband in this case...an eye for an eye etc.

Personally I believe the husband was absolutely within his 'rights' to do what he did...and I base that on my own moral sense not that of a book.

[aznyron]

I just want to ad my thoughts & prayers go out to the family and I hope for a speedy recovery God Bless this family

[madamtingtong]

Right on wolfman, I would make it my sole reason for remaining alive - in fact I'd make a point of keeping fit healthy for as long as it took to track the scumbag down and do him down in the harshest, the slowest, way imaginable.

Theorising is for the glibly aloof, who cannot imagine themselves in another's shoes, those for whom the word 'humanity' has no meaning.

The obfuscaters -- guns and knives and swords don't kill people eh? Sophistic claptrap, meaningless rubbish, and not your original thought - you merely heard or read it somewhere. It's playing with words and meanings. You are mental lightweights and your hearts are just not with the program. you like to sit on the edge of the crowd and enjoy the suffering of others, like the knitters at the hangings.

A kerb can kill a person, a sharp table edge can kill a person, gobbling down a large piece of steak can kill a person. The blame lies where? I daresay a gun can too, especially if you look at the wrong end at the wrong time. If I die because someone in the vicinity, with a lethal weapon, is careless - or ill-intentioned - who or what kills me. <deleted>, does it matter? A criminally negligent person can't kill me by the power of thought or the evil eye, something has to be done. If he sticks the sharp end of a pencil or a feather up my nose, he can kill me, if he shoots me he can kill me, but what actually caused my death was the pencil....or the gun, or the fevver. The man 'killed' me - I do not punish the pencil, though it caused my death, but one does pursue the man. Tricky ain't it, theorists. Best you don't prognosticate. Leave this stuff to action man, go and do girly-boy somewhere else. Onya Damian, wolfman, and one or two others....

You boys are soo macho, you remind me of Tom Cruise in mission impossible but I expect you are taller and not gay, though you do seem to like each other a lot. If you get together do you think you might enjoy handling each others equipment? Seeing who has the biggest gun. Perhaps you handle each others at the same time, ph what a thought, I expect you both work out a lot. Do you ever rub each other down? sorry I have to go now you two boys make me feel sooo hot.

[qualtrough]

As the OP I would like to ask a mod to kill this thread. I posted the story as it was not in the English language press and thought it newsworthy. Unfortunately, as is often the case, it has now degenerated into a debate over whether or not the husband was justified in killing the man who shot his pregnant wife twice in the head and shot him once. Monday morning quarterbacking that is just absurd and disrespectful of the victims. Close please!

[camerata]

As the OP I would like to ask a mod to kill this thread.

It does seem to have degenerated into violent fantasies and vigilante posturing that has little to do with Thailand...

[sriracha john]

Indeed, before the new troll madamtingtong can add more .....